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NCAA appeals committee upholds ruling that Notre Dame must vacate all wins....

You sue them for not complying with their own rules.
But that’s not the point
U then take hundreds of depositions of everyone in the NCAA headquarters and everyone associated with theUNCbscandal . You will find something and/or the NCAA will back off. Count on it.

Just takes someone like ND who could raise the millions in legal fees necessary to fund such a project.
 
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I beg to differ . UNC is the biggest most long lasting scandal in the history of sports. It could not have happened without the cooperation of admistrators, coaches and instructors , and a corrupt NCAA.
Over 1500 athletes over a eigthteen year period. The NCAA simply “fixed “ it based upon a nonsensical legal argument . Even former NC Governor Martin who came up with the argument said it didn’t make sense and he was embarrassed in retrospect to have made it . It proved the NCAA is corrupt.

UL on the other hand involved very serious matters in A number of instances over a couple of years . I guess we agree the two are not even close in comparison but differ on which is by far the more serious.
I say UNC because of the number of athletes involved , the length of the scandal and the corrupt NCAA ruling

BTW I have read everything there is to read on the UNC scandal and have practiced law for over forty years including complex litigation . UNC scandal is historic.

I lurk here a lot but I keep hearing things like this and it drives me crazy. Several things. Do you think the athletes at UNC are dumber than the ones at other schools? Do you really think that what happened at UNC doesn't happen at UK or every other D1 school. Hell, the clowns at NC State actually have classes taught by coaches. Does anybody in America believe that Zion Williamson will be doing Duke level work? The rat has his game down to a science. Also, I agree that it's a bad look for us but here's the deal. I graduated from UNC and everybody knew that the AFAM Department had classes that didn't require much effort at all and that they would "help" you if you needed help. They were available to everybody and everybody who needed them took advantage. We got off on a technicality I will grant you that but the "worst scandal" stuff is absurd. Lastly I will leave you with this question. If in 2012 it turned out that mr one and done Anthony Davis was not going to be able to play in the national championship game because he got a D in sociology would you all have not been pissed at Cal for not figuring something out?
 
Here is the real reason UNC did not get punished.

Their scandal was WAY too big. It effected so many things for such a long period of time, that if UNC were to have been found guilty then the NCAA would have had to vacate 100's of games and 3 Championships. No way were they going to levee a punishment that severe or scrub that much history from their record books. So the NCAA did everything they could to find a loop hole so UNC could slide.

If the UNC scandal only covered a 3 year period and 1 championship I don't think the NCAA would have had any problem hitting them with an appropriate punishment.

But because the UNC scandal went on for over 20 years and several Championships, the NCAA did nothing because any appropriate punishment would have significantly changed the history of basketball

Fortunately for UNC, when they got caught cheating, it was too big to be punished.
 
I lurk here a lot but I keep hearing things like this and it drives me crazy. Several things. Do you think the athletes at UNC are dumber than the ones at other schools? Do you really think that what happened at UNC doesn't happen at UK or every other D1 school. Hell, the clowns at NC State actually have classes taught by coaches. Does anybody in America believe that Zion Williamson will be doing Duke level work? The rat has his game down to a science. Also, I agree that it's a bad look for us but here's the deal. I graduated from UNC and everybody knew that the AFAM Department had classes that didn't require much effort at all and that they would "help" you if you needed help. They were available to everybody and everybody who needed them took advantage. We got off on a technicality I will grant you that but the "worst scandal" stuff is absurd. Lastly I will leave you with this question. If in 2012 it turned out that mr one and done Anthony Davis was not going to be able to play in the national championship game because he got a D in sociology would you all have not been pissed at Cal for not figuring something out?
Ah, the ends justify the means huh? I would be pissed if Cal or Stoops had players on scholarship who were functionality illiterate. I'd be pissed if some faculty came up with a scheme to skirt the rules and in doing so embarrassed UK. But hey, if it's OK with you that UNCheat - your schools permanent moniker - did these things, well, that says everything doesn't it.
 
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I lurk here a lot but I keep hearing things like this and it drives me crazy. Several things. Do you think the athletes at UNC are dumber than the ones at other schools? Do you really think that what happened at UNC doesn't happen at UK or every other D1 school. Hell, the clowns at NC State actually have classes taught by coaches. Does anybody in America believe that Zion Williamson will be doing Duke level work? The rat has his game down to a science. Also, I agree that it's a bad look for us but here's the deal. I graduated from UNC and everybody knew that the AFAM Department had classes that didn't require much effort at all and that they would "help" you if you needed help. They were available to everybody and everybody who needed them took advantage. We got off on a technicality I will grant you that but the "worst scandal" stuff is absurd. Lastly I will leave you with this question. If in 2012 it turned out that mr one and done Anthony Davis was not going to be able to play in the national championship game because he got a D in sociology would you all have not been pissed at Cal for not figuring something out?
Delusional . No it does not go on at UK. I know that for sure . For certain . I suspect it does not go on at any other institution . U good off not because of a technicality but because of favoritism , greed and a crooked NCAA. And the whole world knows it . U will be forever the biggest cheaters in the history of sports .
From a PR standpoint UNCheat would have been better off taking a few years punishment but I suspect as others see the unfairness and inconsistency of NCAA rulings it will mean the end of the NCAA . I just pray that when the P5 get out that UNCheat is not invited to join the new organization ,
The truth hurts.
 
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Here is the real reason UNC did not get punished.

Their scandal was WAY too big. It effected so many things for such a long period of time, that if UNC were to have been found guilty then the NCAA would have had to vacate 100's of games and 3 Championships. No way were they going to levee a punishment that severe or scrub that much history from their record books. So the NCAA did everything they could to find a loop hole so UNC could slide.

If the UNC scandal only covered a 3 year period and 1 championship I don't think the NCAA would have had any problem hitting them with an appropriate punishment.

But because the UNC scandal went on for over 20 years and several Championships, the NCAA did nothing because any appropriate punishment would have significantly changed the history of basketball

Fortunately for UNC, when they got caught cheating, it was too big to be punished.
Good post.
 
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The US Supreme Court pretty much gave the NCAA carte blanche to enforce their rule any way they wished OTHER THAN ORDERING A COACH FIRED. Their ruling stated the NCAA is not an arm of government, and member institutions had the right and ability to leave any time they wished.

Having said that, Notre Dame carries a huge amount of clout, no matter what their athletic record may be.
Notre Dame going ballistic may not be the death knell tolling for the NCAA.
Quasimodo is getting limbered up though.
 
In the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions’ decision, the panel found a former Notre Dame athletic training student violated NCAA ethical conduct rules when she committed academic misconduct for two football student-athletes and provided six other football student-athletes with impermissible academic extra benefits. The panel prescribed the vacation of records, along with a probation period and a show-cause order for the former athletic training student.

The university also argued that the penalty is excessive since there was no university involvement or knowledge of the academic conduct. The appeals committee confirmed that at the time of the violations, the athletic training student was considered a university employee under NCAA rules.



Absolutely outrageous ruling. Notre Dame gets hammered because an athletic training student commits academic misconduct with a total of 8 football players over 2 years, without any involvement from the school. UNC cheaters run a sham Major, for hundreds of athletes and other students, over decades, directed by a department head. And they get nothing. Nothing!

ND should sue!

Don't forget assisted and even wrote the final papers for athletes which didn't happen for the common student. That was their whole argument was that the athletes didn't get any preferential treatment but grades were changed and papers written for those athletes. Not to mention the Wheels for Hells was swept completely under the rug in the their final ruling.
 
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I wish the top schools would come together and tell the NCAA to take a hike, start their own conferences, have their own tournaments and playoffs all while the NCAA crumbles to the ground.
I hope Eli will call ND president today and say we would be a part of it. Really all you need to get is about 14 major schools in FB and Basketball to do it and the NCAA crumbles.
We need to have at least ten or so in order to play each other and keep the TV money ,royalty money and ticket sales coming in during the couple of years in transition. Why not . Professional boxing now has five championships.
 
Pretty amazing ND got this and NC got nothing. NC was totally organized to cheat, with teachers. How did they get out of it! If the NCAA does that to ND there had to be inside dealings for NC to get out of what they did.
 
I lurk here a lot but I keep hearing things like this and it drives me crazy. Several things. Do you think the athletes at UNC are dumber than the ones at other schools? Do you really think that what happened at UNC doesn't happen at UK or every other D1 school. Hell, the clowns at NC State actually have classes taught by coaches. Does anybody in America believe that Zion Williamson will be doing Duke level work? The rat has his game down to a science. Also, I agree that it's a bad look for us but here's the deal. I graduated from UNC and everybody knew that the AFAM Department had classes that didn't require much effort at all and that they would "help" you if you needed help. They were available to everybody and everybody who needed them took advantage. We got off on a technicality I will grant you that but the "worst scandal" stuff is absurd. Lastly I will leave you with this question. If in 2012 it turned out that mr one and done Anthony Davis was not going to be able to play in the national championship game because he got a D in sociology would you all have not been pissed at Cal for not figuring something out?

So, what are you saying? When you were at UNC, everyone knew about the stuff going on in AFAM and, of course, everyone probably said it was because the students were black and this was some kind of affirmative action program because "those" students probably couldln't do real college level work?

If everyone knew, why was it allowed to happen? That is the million dollar question!
 
So, what are you saying? When you were at UNC, everyone knew about the stuff going on in AFAM and, of course, everyone probably said it was because the students were black and this was some kind of affirmative action program because "those" students probably couldln't do real college level work?

If everyone knew, why was it allowed to happen? That is the million dollar question!
I actually think Heels post is new information which should enable the NCAA to reopen the investigation of UNC.

All I know is now I am sure God is no longer on the side of the NCAA . Can’t do that to touchdown Jesus.
 
I actually think Heels post is new information which should enable the NCAA to reopen the investigation of UNC.

All I know is now I am sure God is no longer on the side of the NCAA . Can’t do that to touchdown Jesus.

Kinda interesting that when we hired Cal, the UNC fans came to this board and blasted us for bringing in a cheater. RevHeels, aka Gary M, was one of the main culprits. He even claimed that cheating could not happen at UNC due to controls in place. We went from that to now "everyone knew." I didn't think UNC fans could be any lower than they were. Well, now we know that they are.
 
So, what are you saying? When you were at UNC, everyone knew about the stuff going on in AFAM and, of course, everyone probably said it was because the students were black and this was some kind of affirmative action program because "those" students probably couldln't do real college level work?

If everyone knew, why was it allowed to happen? That is the million dollar question!

It happened because the University is very large and nobody cared much about that department. It was just allowed to do it's own thing with very little oversight. As an alum that pisses me off more than anything. Also what does race have to do with anything? People of all races took those classes. Here's what I don't understand. In the state of Kentucky UK basketball is by far the greatest thing going on. The BBN is real in that state. Hell, fans even threaten refs and burn things in the street when you lose. That said, are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that the UK has never bent/broken any rules in order for the basketball team to be successful. There's a reason why you don't see much outrage at D1 schools because of what happened at UNC.
 
It happened because the University is very large and nobody cared much about that department. It was just allowed to do it's own thing with very little oversight. As an alum that pisses me off more than anything. Also what does race have to do with anything? People of all races took those classes. Here's what I don't understand. In the state of Kentucky UK basketball is by far the greatest thing going on. The BBN is real in that state. Hell, fans even threaten refs and burn things in the street when you lose. That said, are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that the UK has never bent/broken any rules in order for the basketball team to be successful. There's a reason why you don't see much outrage at D1 schools because of what happened at UNC.

Throwing stones at every other program to make yourself feel better isn't exactly the best approach. Other programs, including UK have been hit by players not making the grades. Just didn't happen at UNC. Peppers should have flunked out. He didn't because UNC had an entire university involved in compete fraud.

UNC fans sneered their noses at the rest of college bball and declared themselves superior. Now, they are here trying to say, "We aren't any worse than anyone else." Now you understand why we won't let this die.
 
It happened because the University is very large and nobody cared much about that department. It was just allowed to do it's own thing with very little oversight. As an alum that pisses me off more than anything. Also what does race have to do with anything? People of all races took those classes. Here's what I don't understand. In the state of Kentucky UK basketball is by far the greatest thing going on. The BBN is real in that state. Hell, fans even threaten refs and burn things in the street when you lose. That said, are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that the UK has never bent/broken any rules in order for the basketball team to be successful. There's a reason why you don't see much outrage at D1 schools because of what happened at UNC.
But everyone knew right? It was common knowledge . right?
Don't you understand the reason every other college is pissed (except maybe Duke ) is that when we got caught we paid the price. When you got caught in the biggest scandal of all it was "fixed" by UNC man of the year ESPN president Skipper's friends in the NCAA.
 
It happened because the University is very large and nobody cared much about that department. It was just allowed to do it's own thing with very little oversight. As an alum that pisses me off more than anything. Also what does race have to do with anything? People of all races took those classes. Here's what I don't understand. In the state of Kentucky UK basketball is by far the greatest thing going on. The BBN is real in that state. Hell, fans even threaten refs and burn things in the street when you lose. That said, are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that the UK has never bent/broken any rules in order for the basketball team to be successful. There's a reason why you don't see much outrage at D1 schools because of what happened at UNC.


First it is amazing how the "Carolina Way" once insinuated that you did things the right way but now it only means you did it like everyone else and just didn't pay for your crimes like others have. Second thing is you make it sound like the National Guard has to be called in when we lose. I have never heard of anything being burned after a loss and only after winning a National Championship is anything burned in the streets and then it is couches which is a tradition dating back for years. It isn't like we are rolling cars and setting businesses on fire. Even after the worse academic scandal in college history you still can't help but think your school is superior to everyone else.
 
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Notre Dame should refuse and blow this thing out of the water.

Every coach should be instructed to talk about it to all media outlets. They should celebrate those years and force the NCAA to admit their double standard.
 
First it is amazing how the "Carolina Way" once insinuated that you did things the right way but now it only means you did it like everyone else and just didn't pay for your crimes like others have. Second thing is you make it sound like the National Guard has to be called in when we lose. I have never heard of anything being burned after a loss and only after winning a National Championship is anything burned in the streets and then it is couches which is a tradition dating back for years. It isn't like we are rolling cars and setting businesses on fire. Even after the worse academic scandal in college history you still can't help but think your school is superior to everyone else.

It's not that it's just the hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness that bothers me. Yes we were wrong. As an alum and fan I can admit that. My issue is that no program in the country is 100% clean and Kentucky is no exception. Whenever you put millions of dollars and peoples livelihoods on the line this stuff will happen. We just got caught but trust me this is not just a UNC problem. I don't know why people can't acknowledge that. Lemme ask you a question. Straight up. If the NCAA opened an investigation into academics and sports at UK over the past 30 years, including the Pitino era, are you 100% confident that nothing incriminating would be found? I don't think any fan of a major program could say that.
 
It's not that it's just the hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness that bothers me. Yes we were wrong. As an alum and fan I can admit that. My issue is that no program in the country is 100% clean and Kentucky is no exception. Whenever you put millions of dollars and peoples livelihoods on the line this stuff will happen. We just got caught but trust me this is not just a UNC problem. I don't know why people can't acknowledge that. Lemme ask you a question. Straight up. If the NCAA opened an investigation into academics and sports at UK over the past 30 years, including the Pitino era, are you 100% confident that nothing incriminating would be found? I don't think any fan of a major program could say that.
Based on this logic no school should ever face penalties because every school violates NCAA rules. Following this logic tree there should be no enforcement of rules. Since there is no enforcement of rules then why have rules at all. With no rules then every school should run their programs as semi pro teams like UNC. All of this while having, as others have stated, the most sanctimonious fan base in all of sports.

Also all of those teams who have received penalties in the past shouldn't have received penalties because, you know, every school does it.
 
It's not that it's just the hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness that bothers me. Yes we were wrong. As an alum and fan I can admit that. My issue is that no program in the country is 100% clean and Kentucky is no exception. Whenever you put millions of dollars and peoples livelihoods on the line this stuff will happen. We just got caught but trust me this is not just a UNC problem. I don't know why people can't acknowledge that. Lemme ask you a question. Straight up. If the NCAA opened an investigation into academics and sports at UK over the past 30 years, including the Pitino era, are you 100% confident that nothing incriminating would be found? I don't think any fan of a major program could say that.

You obviously don't know how the NCAA works to even ask that question. The NCAA has a statute of limitations that would exempt the Pitino era unless you want to somehow argue that Pitino cheated and taught Tubby to cheat and then he taught Cal.

This is EXACTLY what happened at UNC. Dean S-myth passed the cheating down to each coach who came after him. That clearly never happened at UK. To even suggest that completely discredits your posts.
 
That's terrible. :( I may be in the minority here but I take no pleasure from a team (even one of our rivals) getting hit with these kinds of things. I mean don't misunderstand me, if a team's wrongdoings warrant these kind of penalties and it's been justly proven, then yes they (even us in the late 80s) must pay the price. I just think it's a very sad and tragic thing to have to happen because in most cases it's only a small handful (maybe even just one or two people) that actually committ the wrongdoing, and that causing the loss of scholarships and/or being stripped of their medals, sorry NCAA trophies and/or wins only ends up hurting a lot of innocent people...both players and fans alike.

Beating a rival like Loserville, UNC, and especially Puke in the NCAA's and/or key regular season game, yes most definitely brag/gloat about that. But personally, I'm not going to gloat at all if they do indeed end up getting punished by the NCAA...I just feel like that's kinda hitting below the belt.
 
Based on this logic no school should ever face penalties because every school violates NCAA rules. Following this logic tree there should be no enforcement of rules. Since there is no enforcement of rules then why have rules at all. With no rules then every school should run their programs as semi pro teams like UNC. All of this while having, as others have stated, the most sanctimonious fan base in all of sports.

Also all of those teams who have received penalties in the past shouldn't have received penalties because, you know, every school does it.
the rules are archaic. It’s also a facade. We see it as rules and guidelines but the hen house was raped years ago leaving us foolishly pointing out who’s the biggest cheater. The system is cheating, old and needs updating.
Ms. Rice’s committee needs to put an immediate stop to any pending investigation/penalties causing coaches and admin staff to be fired from their positions. It’s only fair at this point until a new direction is made.
Then once players are paid , the question of school participation ie; grades attendance etc, will be warranted as that is the next cheating elephant in the room.
Coaches/schools / tv/ ncaa/ are all reaping millions off supposed amatuer athletes. It’s nit fair . Then you will hear the racists cries as the kids who physically can make millions are withheld from the ability to do so by standardized tests in a monopolized system.
 
a Loserville fan heartrate spikes every time they read this thread title. Your next you traitors of the bluegrass. How could anybody born in Kentucky turn their back on the Big Blue?
Your traitors every damn one of ya and time is ticking.... Couldn't happen to better group of people ...except maybe the orange loving knoxvillians! Cardinals can kiss my buttocks! ... Orange lovers too.


Loserville and Knoxville I hate thee!!!!!
 
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Does anyone have empathy for these families who may well get caught up in tax evasion?
I’m sure they all were diligent to report how 100k ended up in their bank accounts?
How was this side-stepped or did the agents perform financial counseling to them including tax implications?
There are too many side stories and potential collateral damages that your head could explode. I’m shocked / not shocked the legs this continues to have not being squashed asap.
 
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You obviously don't know how the NCAA works to even ask that question. The NCAA has a statute of limitations that would exempt the Pitino era unless you want to somehow argue that Pitino cheated and taught Tubby to cheat and then he taught Cal.

This is EXACTLY what happened at UNC. Dean S-myth passed the cheating down to each coach who came after him. That clearly never happened at UK. To even suggest that completely discredits your posts.
Trade integrity for wins "The Carolina Way"
 
I just think it's a very sad and tragic thing to have to happen because in most cases it's only a small handful (maybe even just one or two people) that actually committ the wrongdoing, and that causing the loss of scholarships and/or being stripped of their medals, sorry NCAA trophies and/or wins only ends up hurting a lot of innocent people...both players and fans alike..

Most of the violations are NOT a handful of people but an entire culture. PSU and UNC were classic examples of a systemic problem throughout the universities. Same was true for UK in the 80's, etc.

Everyone profits off the cheating so what is the problem with everyone bearing some of the pain? One argument for PSU not getting the death penalty was the economic hardship it would cause for local businesses. Yet, the businesses were part of the problem by creating a culture in which football was everything. Players could beat up fellow students at PSU and there were NO ramifications. It was business as usual.
 
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the rules are archaic. It’s also a facade. We see it as rules and guidelines but the hen house was raped years ago leaving us foolishly pointing out who’s the biggest cheater. The system is cheating, old and needs updating.
Ms. Rice’s committee needs to put an immediate stop to any pending investigation/penalties causing coaches and admin staff to be fired from their positions. It’s only fair at this point until a new direction is made.
Then once players are paid , the question of school participation ie; grades attendance etc, will be warranted as that is the next cheating elephant in the room.
Coaches/schools / tv/ ncaa/ are all reaping millions off supposed amatuer athletes. It’s nit fair . Then you will hear the racists cries as the kids who physically can make millions are withheld from the ability to do so by standardized tests in a monopolized system.
As long as large amounts of money and huge egos are involved in college sports there will be corruption. Paying players will not end the corruption. If a school is willing to cheat by paying players they will just pay amounts beyond any baseline pay that the NCAA authorizes to be paid (The bidding wars will just continue). Louisville agreed to pay the Bowen kid $100,000. Do you think the NCAA can beat that kind of money? Whether an athlete is a student is already an elephant in the room and UNC is our largest example.

Much of this is on us the audience. We are willing to pay for TV coverage, Tickets, and sports paraphernalia. This drives the engine that makes the large sums of money that causes much of the corruption we see. Fan bases and coaches also have massive egos and they will do just about anything for the legacy of their favored sports program. UNC turning an academic program dedicated to African American studies into a diploma mill is a prime example. The kicker is UNC fans will excuse this action like it is just the price of winning ball games.
 
It's not that it's just the hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness that bothers me. Yes we were wrong. As an alum and fan I can admit that. My issue is that no program in the country is 100% clean and Kentucky is no exception. Whenever you put millions of dollars and peoples livelihoods on the line this stuff will happen. We just got caught but trust me this is not just a UNC problem. I don't know why people can't acknowledge that. Lemme ask you a question. Straight up. If the NCAA opened an investigation into academics and sports at UK over the past 30 years, including the Pitino era, are you 100% confident that nothing incriminating would be found? I don't think any fan of a major program could say that.

I am sure it happens at most major programs but the smugness your program had for years that you were better than everyone else and did things the right way was a sham. Nobody else, besides Duke, has that attitude and you both are as dirty as anyone.
 
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