Minute distribution now that Livingston might be a 4

[ukfan1622]

Now that Cal knows our best five along with the rest of us and has decided that Livingston might play some 4(or more likely convinced Livingston and camp that he was going to play some 4) damn this sentence is getting too long maybe I should wrap it up...

Here is my thinking on minute distribution in close games:

Wallace: 32 minutes
Reeves: 32 minutes
Frederick: 28 minutes(injury protocol)
Toppin: 32 minutes
Oscar: however many he wants

Now that Livingston can play the 4 I see no need for Ware or Collins or Onyenso to see the court in close games. I'd of course give Wheeler
Wallace's backup minutes and I'd split the 20 wing minutes between Wheeler and Thiero.

When Wallace and Wheeler are on the court together I like the idea of Wheeler on the wing. Wheeler's 3 point percentage for the year isn't bad and the corner three should be the easiest since it's the shortest(I think, I know it is in the NBA) and I think Wheeler would be a 3 point threat from the corner if that was the only place his practice and game threes occurred. He would also cause some havoc by beating people down the baseline sometimes.

Just the thoughts of a completely unqualified Baskteball Bennie.

 

[fatguy87]

This gives us a firm 7 man rotation:

Wallace
Wheeler
Fredrick
Reeves
Livingston
Oscar
Toppin

Scraps for everyone else.

 

[bucsrule8872]

This gives us a firm 7 man rotation:

Wallace
Wheeler
Fredrick
Reeves
Livingston
Oscar
Toppin

Scraps for everyone else.

I kind of agree, but I would like to see Fredrick’s minutes reduced a bit until tourney time. I would hate to see him go down with another leg injury and the more minutes, the more wear and tear on those legs of his. Got to keep him fresh and healthy. I would play Thiero a little more at the 2 to rest Fredrick.

Needs to be the main 7 on the floor as much as possible once the postseason starts.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

I would start Oscar, Livingston, Wallace, Frederick and Reeves. First off the bench Thiero.

 

[mcwildcats04]

I would start Oscar, Livingston, Wallace, Frederick and Reeves. First off the bench Thiero.

I feel like Toppin is playing too good to bench him. Still love Livingston's potential and he needs minutes but start the game off with our best lineup of Wallace/Fredrick/Reeves/Toppin/Oscar. Bring Livingston in for backup minutes to Toppin and roll with that suggested lineup of yours as much as possible when Livingston is in. I do absolutely love the potential of a Wallace/Fredrick/Reeves/Livingston/Oscar lineup.

 

[kennyskywalker34]

I would start Oscar, Livingston, Wallace, Frederick and Reeves. First off the bench Thiero.

Toppin is playing the best he has ever played and you wanna bench him?
7 man rotation should be
The Bennie 5 Livingston and Thiero

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Toppin is playing the best he has ever played and you wanna bench him?
7 man rotation should be
The Bennie 5 Livingston and Thiero

That's my line up. Toppin could never play for me. And I don't see him playing well now. Yes, he's scored a few points. And he did rebound a little.

But the floor spacing is terrible with him. He is a ball stopper. he doesn't guard.

He should be killing it since he's left wide open. Oscar is double and triple teamed because they leave Toppin alone. Toppin is never boxed out since they pay so much attention to Oscar.

Maybe is playing the best he ever has? But it was a low bar. He couldn't even beat out Brooks last year.

So that's my team. Toppin and Wheeler are cheerleaders.

 

[BigKari]

I’m afraid Livingston was too out the door already when he got here. And that’s not to say disengaged w/ Kentucky at all, don’t want that to be misconstrued. I think he’s all in, and much of his lack of production (on paper) is due to circumstances outside of his control. If he’s unlocked and starts playing 20-25 mins every game, you can see his development is about to be parabolic. Is 2 months quite enough time? It could be, but it’d be hard to be ultra confident in that I guess.

His sample size from 3 has been enough to show that he can definitely shoot. He can finish at the rim and he’s physically gifted. I think he’s gone either way, hope we can see him start to flourish and it’s looking like they are trying to make sure he gets that opportunity. With this roster and really awful rotation decisions, his development got stunted to start the year. Pretty clear that Cal knows he has to attempt to make that right. What would really suck would be to see him finish the season at only 5-6ppg and go mid 2nd round. Because I know that a Soph. Livingston would be a force in CBB and a top 20 pick. Now I just hope that gets fast tracked, if he averages 10 in the tourney on a FF team, he’s going top 20 this year.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I kind of agree, but I would like to see Fredrick’s minutes reduced a bit until tourney time. I would hate to see him go down with another leg injury and the more minutes, the more wear and tear on those legs of his. Got to keep him fresh and healthy. I would play Thiero a little more at the 2 to rest Fredrick.

Needs to be the main 7 on the floor as much as possible once the postseason starts.

Agreed. Definitely need to get these guys rest and use our bench. I understand that we need to win as many games as possible. However, in the games we have a comfortable lead, Cal should rest some of these guys, especially Fredrick. He should learn from last year. Well, he should learn from a lot of things that he doesn’t, so….

 

[ukfan1622]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I think our best 5 should start the game because, if not and Oscar picks up 2 fouls, our best five might only get 2 or 3 minutes in the first half and 15 minutes in the 2nd half.
That's not near enough of your best five on the floor.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

I’m afraid Livingston was too out the door already when he got here. And that’s not to say disengaged w/ Kentucky at all, don’t want that to be misconstrued. I think he’s all in, and much of his lack of production (on paper) is due to circumstances outside of his control. If he’s unlocked and starts playing 20-25 mins every game, you can see his development is about to be parabolic. Is 2 months quite enough time? It could be, but it’d be hard to be ultra confident in that I guess.

His sample size from 3 has been enough to show that he can definitely shoot. He can finish at the rim and he’s physically gifted. I think he’s gone either way, hope we can see him start to flourish and it’s looking like they are trying to make sure he gets that opportunity. With this roster and really awful rotation decisions, his development got stunted to start the year. Pretty clear that Cal knows he has to attempt to make that right. What would really suck would be to see him finish the season at only 5-6ppg and go mid 2nd round. Because I know that a Soph. Livingston would be a force in CBB and a top 20 pick. Now I just hope that gets fast tracked, if he averages 10 in the tourney on a FF team, he’s going top 20 this year.

I don't know about all that. But I do believe that had Livingston started from day 1 and allowed to play thru his mistakes he would be balling out now. Could be wrong? But I would have found out.

He will drive into traffic and finish strong. As will Wallace. You can't make Toppin drive into traffic. Reeves will go stronger to the basket than Toppin will.

We still have to get much better on defense. If we don't fix the defense it will be St Peters again in the tourney. It's hard to guard when your 4 and 5 man can't guard. Oscar's only defense is his defensive rebounds. And the occasional jump the passing lane. Toppin just can't guard at all. He never even tries to guard. Never bends his knees. Never gets in a defensive stance. He just bounces up and down like a tennis player waiting on a serve.

That put tremendous pressure on the other 3 players. We have to learn help defense. And we are. But will we run out of time? We have to learn to talk on defense. That is much improved. But you have to know what to talk about. That requires an ability to see what's coming. Toppin and Wheeler are very low BBIQ players. Wheeler on the bench helps that part. Counting on Toppin to help Oscar is fool's gold. But he does help sometimes. No one rotates to Toppin's man though when he drops to help. That has to change if we are going to become good.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Not sure why Cal is still bringing Reeves off the bench but its working so I say stick with it.
Everyone knows the Benny Five is the best Five.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Calipari is going to play the rotation he wants to overall so the Thiero noise is just that on here. I would like for him to get a few minutes a game but people calling for him to be the 6th man are crazy. I'd imagine if he played a lot more he would lose his honeymoon on here really fast.

 

[G-PIP]

Calipari is going to play the rotation he wants to overall so the Thiero noise is just that on here. I would like for him to get a few minutes a game but people calling for him to be the 6th man are crazy. I'd imagine if he played a lot more he would lose his honeymoon on here really fast.

I suspect you’re right that Thiero still needs some more seasoning and development before playing big minutes, and some of that would show more if he were playing 20 minutes a game. But he has sure looked like he could be a good backup SF, who could have given Reeves a breather while getting that seasoning to help in a more prominent role next season. I certainly would have preferred Thiero playing the majority of the backup SF minutes behind Reeves – but nobody can say for sure how successful that would have been (although probably still not too late to try that). But I do really believe that Livingston would have been much more beneficial to this team at PF. Toppin & Livingston could have been a nice combo there.

 

[Bigblueamdyou]

I would start Oscar, Livingston, Wallace, Frederick and Reeves. First off the bench Thiero.

i don’t see theiro getting any playing time unless we are deep in foul trouble or injury

 

[UKBB4Ever]

i don’t see theiro getting any playing time unless we are deep in foul trouble or injury

Obviously you are right. I’m not the coach. If I were Thiero would be playing a lot.

 

[BigKari]

I don't know about all that. But I do believe that had Livingston started from day 1 and allowed to play thru his mistakes he would be balling out now. Could be wrong? But I would have found out.

He will drive into traffic and finish strong. As will Wallace. You can't make Toppin drive into traffic. Reeves will go stronger to the basket than Toppin will.

We still have to get much better on defense. If we don't fix the defense it will be St Peters again in the tourney. It's hard to guard when your 4 and 5 man can't guard. Oscar's only defense is his defensive rebounds. And the occasional jump the passing lane. Toppin just can't guard at all. He never even tries to guard. Never bends his knees. Never gets in a defensive stance. He just bounces up and down like a tennis player waiting on a serve.

That put tremendous pressure on the other 3 players. We have to learn help defense. And we are. But will we run out of time? We have to learn to talk on defense. That is much improved. But you have to know what to talk about. That requires an ability to see what's coming. Toppin and Wheeler are very low BBIQ players. Wheeler on the bench helps that part. Counting on Toppin to help Oscar is fool's gold. But he does help sometimes. No one rotates to Toppin's man though when he drops to help. That has to change if we are going to become good.

Shoot sounds like you’re mostly echoing what I said. I agree w/ everything you said besides that I think the St. Peter’s issue has been solved in the benching of Wheeler. This team is getting out of the first weekend. Yes, there is time to get better, as individuals and as a team, but it’s not much time. And you don’t get better by doing more of the same, and on that we pretty much have to trust they’re doing the extra work behind the scenes.

 

[Kybluedude]

Not seeing it with Livingston. Can’t finish on the break. Stumbles. Ducks his head in the lane going to the basket and gets stripped. Poor jumper on the run and dribble . Plays below the rim.

Does not finish well. No pull up.

Plays hard but no handles.

I sure hope you are right that he improves. I was hoping for a consistent 8 & 5. He looks like a ball player but just not sure what to think. I’d like to see Thiero get some run.

 

[Kyhoward]

Obviously you are right. I’m not the coach. If I were Thiero would be playing a lot.

A shame! Although he is a much different type of player, I am reminded of Bryce Hopkins. He has a lot of skill and can play 4 positions, but we know that he will not see the floor unless there is foul trouble/injury the rest of the year. CCC should have played him more before the SEC play started and I think we would have seen a kid that could contribute regularly.

 

[caneintally]

If Wheeler and Toppin aren't in your top 7 one has to wonder about your intelligence. Nuff said.

 

[Aike]

I suspect you’re right that Thiero still needs some more seasoning and development before playing big minutes, and some of that would show more if he were playing 20 minutes a game. But he has sure looked like he could be a good backup SF, who could have given Reeves a breather while getting that seasoning to help in a more prominent role next season. I certainly would have preferred Thiero playing the majority of the backup SF minutes behind Reeves – but nobody can say for sure how successful that would have been (although probably still not too late to try that). But I do really believe that Livingston would have been much more beneficial to this team at PF. Toppin & Livingston could have been a nice combo there.

Perfect time to play Thiero would have been end of the Vandy game when we were up 20, instead of handing the keys to Wheeler to grind out 2 points in 5 minutes.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

If Wheeler and Toppin aren't in your top 7 one has to wonder about your intelligence. Nuff said.

One could say the same about you if one was into personal attacks.

So maybe it’s not nuff said?

 

[jgodek]

That's my line up. Toppin could never play for me. And I don't see him playing well now. Yes, he's scored a few points. And he did rebound a little.

But the floor spacing is terrible with him. He is a ball stopper. he doesn't guard.

He should be killing it since he's left wide open. Oscar is double and triple teamed because they leave Toppin alone. Toppin is never boxed out since they pay so much attention to Oscar.

Maybe is playing the best he ever has? But it was a low bar. He couldn't even beat out Brooks last year.

So that's my team. Toppin and Wheeler are cheerleaders.

This is a 💩 take

 

[BBBLazing]

That's my line up. Toppin could never play for me. And I don't see him playing well now. Yes, he's scored a few points. And he did rebound a little.

But the floor spacing is terrible with him. He is a ball stopper. he doesn't guard.

He should be killing it since he's left wide open. Oscar is double and triple teamed because they leave Toppin alone. Toppin is never boxed out since they pay so much attention to Oscar.

Maybe is playing the best he ever has? But it was a low bar. He couldn't even beat out Brooks last year.

So that's my team. Toppin and Wheeler are cheerleaders.

Toppin is our second highest rebounder, by a bunch. Our fourth leading scorer, less than a 1/4 point a game from being our third leading scorer. He is our third leading scorer if you figure it by point per minute played. Of all the people that play, he is 3rd highest in field goal percentage. Averages less turnovers than any starter except CJ, who has been out several games. I'm glad you don't coach this team if he "could never play for" you. You don't seem to have a keen eye.

 

[yes_takeaside]

That's my line up. Toppin could never play for me. And I don't see him playing well now. Yes, he's scored a few points. And he did rebound a little.

But the floor spacing is terrible with him. He is a ball stopper. he doesn't guard.

He should be killing it since he's left wide open. Oscar is double and triple teamed because they leave Toppin alone. Toppin is never boxed out since they pay so much attention to Oscar.

Maybe is playing the best he ever has? But it was a low bar. He couldn't even beat out Brooks last year.

So that's my team. Toppin and Wheeler are cheerleaders.

Are you Livingston’s mom? Dad? Agent?

You obviously don’t know a lot about bb

 

[jameslee32]

Livingston plays too hard to not get some clock at any swing to PF position.

 

[StormCruzzer]

Not seeing it with Livingston. Can’t finish on the break. Stumbles. Ducks his head in the lane going to the basket and gets stripped. Poor jumper on the run and dribble . Plays below the rim.

Does not finish well. No pull up.

Plays hard but no handles.

I sure hope you are right that he improves. I was hoping for a consistent 8 & 5. He looks like a ball player but just not sure what to think. I’d like to see Thiero get some run.

Are you watching the same game that the rest of us are…? A few of what you mentioned are true but the majority is not..

 

[Wildcats1st]

Perfect time to play Thiero would have been end of the Vandy game when we were up 20, instead of handing the keys to Wheeler to grind out 2 points in 5 minutes.

Got boost wheelers confidence. I think cal feel guilt over benching wheeler. I can’t for the life of me get my head around Cals love for the guy. I mean sure as a person he can love him but as a player wheeler has done some serious damage and cal feels bad about having to bench him. Wheeler must be his son? Idk but it’s a Saul smith type special that Cals personal feeling for a player is getting in the way or the team.

 

[BBBLazing]

Got boost wheelers confidence. I think cal feel guilt over benching wheeler. I can’t for the life of me get my head around Cals love for the guy. I mean sure as a person he can love him but as a player wheeler has done some serious damage and cal feels bad about having to bench him. Wheeler must be his son? Idk but it’s a Saul smith type special that Cals personal feeling for a player is getting in the way or the team.

Wheeler may not fit the personality of this team's best lineup, but he has led the SEC in assists for two consecutive years, so to say he can't play is just not correct.

 

[BBNWildcat]

I don't know about all that. But I do believe that had Livingston started from day 1 and allowed to play thru his mistakes he would be balling out now. Could be wrong? But I would have found out.

He will drive into traffic and finish strong. As will Wallace. You can't make Toppin drive into traffic. Reeves will go stronger to the basket than Toppin will.

We still have to get much better on defense. If we don't fix the defense it will be St Peters again in the tourney. It's hard to guard when your 4 and 5 man can't guard. Oscar's only defense is his defensive rebounds. And the occasional jump the passing lane. Toppin just can't guard at all. He never even tries to guard. Never bends his knees. Never gets in a defensive stance. He just bounces up and down like a tennis player waiting on a serve.

That put tremendous pressure on the other 3 players. We have to learn help defense. And we are. But will we run out of time? We have to learn to talk on defense. That is much improved. But you have to know what to talk about. That requires an ability to see what's coming. Toppin and Wheeler are very low BBIQ players. Wheeler on the bench helps that part. Counting on Toppin to help Oscar is fool's gold. But he does help sometimes. No one rotates to Toppin's man though when he drops to help. That has to change if we are going to become good.

The team is more efficient with Toppin. This isn’t even a close debate.

 

[Wildcats1st]

Wheeler may not fit the personality of this team's best lineup, but he has led the SEC in assists for two consecutive years, so to say he can't play is just not correct.

Well I didn’t say he can’t play but I will say this. Wheeler plays his own game at his own pace. He isn’t geared for a team like Kentucky that needs everyone involved. Wheeler picked up some really bad habits along the line and no one ever taught him the value of playing under control within a system. He’s led the SEC in assists but has not one ncaaT win doing it. I mean it’s like mintz or brooks leading the team in points when we won 9 games. Someone is gonna stuff stats on a losing team. You tend to see guys lead in stats when teams aren’t balanced. Wheeler put the entire program off kilter for 2 seasons. AD could have led the country in 3 categories but he stayed with in what his role was for the team. We’ve had lots of potential stat stuffers but Cals teams are the worst when the stat stuffers aren’t spreading it around. That’s what great players do. They don’t make themselves great they make their teams great.

 

[Ocornett]

Well it took 17 post before a fight stated, not bad.

 

[BBBLazing]

Well I didn’t say he can’t play but I will say this. Wheeler plays his own game at his own pace. He isn’t geared for a team like Kentucky that needs everyone involved. Wheeler picked up some really bad habits along the line and no one ever taught him the value of playing under control within a system. He’s led the SEC in assists but has not one ncaaT win doing it. I mean it’s like mintz or brooks leading the team in points when we won 9 games. Someone is gonna stuff stats on a losing team. You tend to see guys lead in stats when teams aren’t balanced. Wheeler put the entire program off kilter for 2 seasons. AD could have led the country in 3 categories but he stayed with in what his role was for the team. We’ve had lots of potential stat stuffers but Cals teams are the worst when the stat stuffers aren’t spreading it around. That’s what great players do. They don’t make themselves great they make their teams great.

I would typically agree about stat stuffers not making others better, but assists? Isn't that by definition making others better?

 

[Wildcats1st]

I would typically agree about stat stuffers not making others better, but assists? Isn't that by definition making others better?

Not always. Not even most of the time. The best pgs move the ball and create so assists come from anywhere. They can draw defenders to make plays not force plays. A pg that pounds out the clock then tries to make a play himself is the worst kind. A lot of time the pg makes the pass that leads to the assist. If it’s the kind of guy who can light it up and playmake that’s a different situation than the type of pg wheeler is. He ll stuff his assist column but it will come at the expense of consistency.

If wheelers assists helped UK win he would be the 40 min per game player cal worked him as for 1.5 season. Assists for wheeler have not equated consistency and wins for UK bb. Then there’s the issue of stuffing the assist column and not being able to defend.

Cal fell in love with wheelers stats, rode that horse into the ground, brainwashed a lot of people into looking at wheelers assists while ignoring everything else about his game. Last year the cbb analysts thought he was going to be the king bc of the assists, this year the enthusiasm has been tempered tremendously. They talk now more about his inability to score and defend. You play wheeler 5 min you have no idea what you will get. You may get 3 assists, you may get 3 turnovers. That play against USC at the end when he just threw it hoping to make a play for a turnover summed up wheeler and who he is very clearly. He is unplayable in any clutch moments bc he is unreliable

 

[bucsrule8872]

A more important stat than assists would be wins. That is why Wheeler was benched. A PG that averages 10 assists per game, but loses big games, is still a PG you want on your bench not on the floor. Winning is the bottom line here. We weren’t winning with Wheeler leading the way.

But, I don’t believe he is totally useless. He is a good spark plug type player off the bench for 10-15 minutes a game. He still has a place in the rotation.

 

[cathouse]

Lol. Cal is just f***ing with the Bennies by saying he might play Livingston at the 4.

Ain't gonna happen until his camp tells Cal he can play him at the 4.....

Now, that may have happened so they can get him more minutes.

Hard to be a first rounder sitting on that bench.