UK is the best basketball program ever, that doesn't make Jon Hood, Michael Jordan. Matt probably isn't Scottie Pippen of lawyers. I like the Ryan Lemond reference. Dude agrees with Matt if Matt calls Ryan an idiot
Marcus Walker, Jason Hatcher, Regie Meant.
- Thread starter Robcatt24
- Start date
I know we were a dumpster fire but so was Miss St when Mullen took over. Same with Franklin at Vandy, Brohm at Purdue and Campbell at Iowa St. Those are traditional doormat football schools like us but they got their programs competitive very quickly. Stoops didn’t take us to a bowl until year 4. With most good coaches you can tell pretty quickly if they know what they’re doing or not regardless of the w/l record. We are 6 years in and I feel like the fan base is split right down the middle on if they believe in Stoops’ coaching abilities.
Correct. He inherited a football program that had a 43-80 record and 2 winning seasons in the 10 years prior to his arrival.
Peace
You follow football closer than that, right? He inherited a team that was getting better the two years before and was relatively young with a great deal of RSs, including two pretty talented QBs. I realize Phil Steele cannot predict when a team is about to break a trend, but we live in the region. We should know better.
That said, Brohm did an excellent job. But, what he inherited does not compare to what Stoops had at UK. THAT was a dumpster fire.
Now, if evaluating talent is a problem, then Jeff’s job might look like something miraculous.
Piece.
Oh, I know Stoops took over a 6-7, 5-7 and 2-10 dumpster fire from Joker. But I did not realize those Purdue (edit) guys that were 3-9, 2-10 and 3-9 the 3 years before Brohm were ready to bust out last year.
Peace
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Wow. I don't know what you'd call it then. They won 8 games in the 3 years prior to Brohm. They won 7 in his first year. Stoops took over a program that won 13 games the 3 years prior to him and he won 2 his first year. If anything, it looks like Purdue was a much worse situation.
Yeah, I was really impressed with UK the year before Stoops took over, beat both of the two OOC teams that didn't have a pulse. Of course they were 0-8 in the SEC, and lost to both the johnny come lately in state schools. And then while Stoops did add some talent after arriving late and ending up with mostly Joker's recruits we still only won two games again in 13, another indication of how bad our talent had degenerated after a DECADE of non support for football.
"They sposed to be SEC?"
UK football was in a steep dive that was accelerating.
I agree our talent was terrible but with Joker and looking back on Stoops' coaching acumen so far there's no way we were going to win more than 3 games in Stoops' first year. But you won't convince me that WKU had more talent than we had that first year when Petrino whipped our butts. That was a coaching clinic against our coach that we've come to see a lot over the past 5 years.
I'm so disappointed in the way the defense has performed since he's been here. I kind of expected the offense to be conservative because we've seen that before with defensive HC's so that is not a surprise but the defense is actually worse now than it was under Joker, statistically anyway. We have so much more depth and talent now and play ball control offense and our D is still terrible. It's mind blowing and partly why I've lost all confidence in Stoops.
Certainly a lot of questions about some coaching decisions-----there always are, hindsight is beautiful..
But the only mind blowing difference in this team and the ones under Joker is the higher level of talent we have (since the strike) overall and isn't it true that not a lot was expected from players like Snell, Josh, Bohanna, etc etc by the recruiting experts? And then there are also a few others like Pashcal and Young that did come in with all the credentials, with McCall maybe the next one I am really excited about getting to watch play.
As for me I think the coaching is getting better, and I love having the privilege of seeing several players with All American talent level on the field--------plenty on the SEC teams we play, FINALLY several on our team, not maybe just one on offense and one on defense..
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We ain't hired s good coach since Bear Bryant then. The rational part of the fan base ain't split. If you look closely, most programs that are split are not giving contract extensions to coaches, but that doesn't fit the agenda
The guy handing out extensions also supported the last coach who caused the dumpster fire and only fired him after a fan revolt. He also insulted fans that knew the coach wasn’t going to work out by calling us microwave fans so I don’t think he cares what we think as long as ticket sales don’t drop too far.
I don't think Joker was the cause of the dumpster fire, although he might not have helped any, it was the result of ten years of penny wise pound foolish spending of the money that was available.
And losing 20,000 long time season ticket holders was too big a drop, do you think? That, and $40,000,000 PLUS rolling in EVERY year changed everything, apparently the reaction to his insult didn't bother him at all since he didn't back off from it one bit, maybe some of the blue barons gave him a plus for it.
It’s enlightening to learn the records from you and Wildcard. That’s tough info to find. One might assume I knew those records before making the statement, but ...
It was about the team his predecessor was putting together, how he redshirted recruits and how that team was being created for Brohm’s first year. The 2 win team and then the 3 win team were different. The 3 win team competed better and Brohm lost an NFL receiver off the 3 win team, but returned a good deal of talent that was maturing.
But, if you want to believe he worked a miracle with which no more than the previous staff could win 3 games, I doubt you will be swayed. Again, I like Brohm, as a man and a coach, I just don’t want to be fooled into believing he inherited a dumpster fire. The cupboard was not bare. Unlike what Stoops found when he got to UK.
So the two previous coaches who went 31-67 before Brohm had stashed away all these good players to build up to 2017? Not buying it.
Brooks had to deal with the penny pinching too and he did ok. Joker fired a bunch of good coaches to construct his own staff and it backfired. He is directly responsible for the dumpster fire.
Saban believes we should give them all second chances. Nobody disagrees with him or he shuts them up.
You won’t be swayed. Brohm is a miracle worker to you. I got it.
But, looking back 9 years is not a reasonable way to determine what was in the cupboard the year Brohm arrived. That just demonstrates you don’t want to put in any effort to find the truth. Which, I am fine with.
So, how did Brohm’s team lose to lowly Rutgers?
I think that says a lot about the talent level of the team. But most games he got them to play above their abilities.You won’t be swayed. Brohm is a miracle worker to you. I got it.
But, looking back 9 years is not a reasonable way to determine what was in the cupboard the year Brohm arrived. That just demonstrates you don’t want to put in any effort to find the truth. Which, I am fine with.
So, how did Brohm’s team lose to lowly Rutgers?
Purdue's 5 previous classes were ranked 68, 73, 68, 71, 56 for an average of 67. Kentucky's before Stoops were 63, 61, 50, 41, 57 for an average of 54.
Looks like Ky had a lot more talent on hand than Purdue. I know recruiting rankings aren't the end all be all but they're usually a pretty good indicator.
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Please don’t tell me people actually accept recruiting ranking distinctions past about #15. Wow. The fact that you find that significant in any possible way is mind boggling. We saw these people actually play the game in college. Yet, you think ranking services can distinguish #30 from #60. Wow. Just wow. We don’t need rankings. We saw the kids. UK had no QB or WR on campus that could compete in the SEC. Brohm has WRs and more than one QB. We have seen them play. SMH
Man, you're in denial. It's ok. Just keep thinking Stoops is awesome and we'll win 10 games this year.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
Over a 5 year period you give my team #30 recruiting classes and you can have #60. I guarantee my team wins more often than yours.
Why would 10 wins be the goal? This is UK football 10 wins and Stoops win coy honors.Man, you're in denial. It's ok. Just keep thinking Stoops is awesome and we'll win 10 games this year.
Man, you're in denial. It's ok. Just keep thinking Stoops is awesome and we'll win 10 games this year.
Your argument is like saying Benny Snell CANNOT be a top RB because he was unranked nationally by Rivals when he came out of HS. We don’t need to know his college stats or how well he played. We have his rank.
I know you don’t believe that. No one could.
You can cherry pick a few players, sure. It is not an exact science. But OVERALL, it is a very good indicator. If you recruit top 40 classes chances are you will regularly be in bowls. Recruit past the 40's and your team will struggle in a power 5 conference.
Look at the recruiting rankings in the SEC every year and you will see the same schools atop the standings (Bama, Ga, UF, LSU, TxAm, Auburn). UT usually recruits well but they were terribly coached and have lost a ton of those players over the years. Who are the schools that usually recruit in the bottom 4 historically? Vandy, Ky, Mizzou and Ole Miss. Those are usually the 4 worst teams in the league. It ain't rocket science.
There are coaches such as Franklin and Brohm that overachieve and than there are coaches with even better resumes' like Bielema and McElwain that underachieve to the point of being axed. In between these extremes are a lot of coaches that are doing an average or above average job. I think it's fair to put Stoops in the above average category. He took over a very bad program with not much history and has showed slow but steady progress - not lightening fast like some would like but he hasn't fallen on his butt either.
Sometimes the turtle wins the race - time will tell.
Sometimes the turtle wins the race - time will tell.
To be fair, recruiting is nothing more than.a piece of the pie. Boisie, Georgia Tech are usually sound teams. As for Missouri, let's not forget with their FORMER coaching staff that had been there for a remarkable time they won the SEC East twice. Mississippi State historically has the same recruiting numbers as UK. As does Louisville.
Clemson is a recent jump to that top four, top five level.
Recruiting the right ingredients never hurts, but how you blend those ingredients AND USE THEM makes or breaks.
They also beat an 8-5 Iowa team and a 7 win Arizona team in their bowl.Rutgers. Don’t want to talk about Rutgers.
The more talent you have the more room you have for error. Ga Tech has had losing seasons 2 out of the last 3 years. Mizzou's former coaching staff could develop talent much like Brooks' teams except they recruited a little better, usually between 30-40 whereas Brooks was usually 40-55. And when Mizzou won that was the worst the SECE has ever been. Miss St recruits 25-30 almost every year and they still do well even in the SECW because Mullen is an awesome coach. I don't think Petrino is an awesome coach but he is very good and IMO much better than Stoopsesp if you consider head to head. Recruiting is only part of the equation but it's the biggest part IMO. There's a reason coaches say it's the life blood of your program. Without talent it doesn't matter how good of a coach you are but some really good coaches can get you to a bowl game under almost any circumstance.
I forget the year, maybe 09, when MSU "upset" us, when we had maybe two or three in state four stars playing for us when everyone went ballistic about Brown at DC so mitch made him the CO-DC (in name only, to save the buyout/salary) when everyone on here thought we had MUCH better talent than MSU did. It turns out that they had TWENTY four star commits the previous few years, ALL from the state of Mississippi------and Ole Miss and the neighboring power states all take a few also-------in 2010 Kentucky had ZERO four stars in the whole state.
Isn't that about the time Mullen took over there? Look it up.
Like you said in your follow up post, "the more talent you have the more room you have for error".
Joker fired a lot of good coaches, and it backfired-------that I agree with. I also think Brooks worked miracles with the talent he was able to recruit, amazing success with great players coming from the two stars he brought in. But as the recruiting coordinator Joker knew RECRUITING was our big weakness-------unfortunately new recruiters with the same old LOUSY support didn't do much, and the downward spiral had already started.
You know, you could make a real case for Joker doing a pretty good job his first year, he upset top ten USC that had about TWENTY times the four stars on their roster as the TWO JCs he played (plus a five star), then his three point loss to NC Auburn with the Heisman winner was actually probably more impressive than Brooks win over NC LSU--------that was undefeated Auburn's closest game while TWO teams beat LSU that year. All but Vandy of the SEC teams we played that year AVERAGED 38 four star commits the prior four years while he had TWO senior four stars that played. And he was bowl eligible, might have even won it IF--------
I still think Joker getting the credit for benching Hartline for DRINKING cost him a lot of support, and I don't think he was that stupid-------I do think others were. And everything snowballed.
You know who beat Rutgers? EMU. Same EMU that UK beat and you complained about the margin of victory. Yet, Rutgers handled Brohm’s offense. Shut down Purdue’s scoring. You just cannot explain it. Maybe an old coach came back and coached that game. Eh?
Like I said it's probably indicative of Purdue's lack of talent that got them beat in that game. I would venture to say their talent is not much better than Rutgers but Brohm had them playing above their abilities most of the year. They have recruited at a much lower level than UK and won the same amount of games IN HIS FIRST YEAR. Now he's kicking our ass on the recruiting trail. His ceiling is much higher than Stoops.
You cherry picked the one game they played like dog crap but they beat Iowa and Arizona and almost beat UL, ya know the team that never punted against us....
I thought Hartline got in trouble for assaulting a female that was fighting with his girlfriend?
Matt Jones voted for Hillary Clinton. What else do you need to know about him?
Or you don't like Stoops and you search and search and search for ways to bring the doom cloud. Every football program has these issues and worse too many players to think you can police them all.
Were you there?
No doubt in my mind he could have had an overdosed girl friend found in his apartment and nothing would have been said at Transfer U, let alone miss a single play--------or have a couple of football players shot in a room full of people and no one saw anything at SOME of our nearby win at all costs city colleges.
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