KY State Recruiting 2013

[TTU/UK fan]

I just wanted to take a look at the in-state recruiting failure that was 2013.

So you have the top rated players: Hunter Bivin (was never anything but a backup at ND), James Quick (Was a solid college WR, but never had over 750 yards, got cut by Redskins), Kyle Bolin (Transferred from UofL, final college fball season at Rutgers saw him go 54% and 3 TDs/6 INTs), Ryan Timmons (was a decent WR but never panned out to what he was expected to be), Jason Hatcher (seemed to have a bright football future, but was a mess off the field), and Jacob Hyde (was never anything but a 3rd string, but a WONDERFUL teammate and person)

Then you have unrated, no D-1 offers Keelan Cole, who is now one of the top Jaquars receivers in the NFL and went to D-2 KWC, and 2 star Logan Woodisde who didn't get a P5 offer and was ignored by UofL and UK, and ends up having record seasons, leading the nation in TD passes as a JR, and shattering Toledo records, throwing for over 4,00 yards as a JR and being one of the most accurate QBs in both his JR and SR seasons. Then being drafted. I remember when at a camp he shared MVP honors with Malik Zaire (a top 5 QB at the time) yet was still ignored which made me scratch my head.

Its crazy both instate schools missed out on these 2. Makes you scratch your head, especially with how little D-1 talent we have in-state, how do 2 NFL players get missed in the same class?

 

[Oak_Hill]

I just wanted to take a look at the in-state recruiting failure that was 2013.

So you have the top rated players: Hunter Bivin (was never anything but a backup at ND), James Quick (Was a solid college WR, but never had over 750 yards, got cut by Redskins), Kyle Bolin (Transferred from UofL, final college fball season at Rutgers saw him go 54% and 3 TDs/6 INTs), Ryan Timmons (was a decent WR but never panned out to what he was expected to be), Jason Hatcher (seemed to have a bright football future, but was a mess off the field), and Jacob Hyde (was never anything but a 3rd string, but a WONDERFUL teammate and person)

Then you have unrated, no D-1 offers Keelan Cole, who is now one of the top Jaquars receivers in the NFL and went to D-2 KWC, and 2 star Logan Woodisde who didn't get a P5 offer and was ignored by UofL and UK, and ends up having record seasons, leading the nation in TD passes as a JR, and shattering Toledo records, throwing for over 4,00 yards as a JR and being one of the most accurate QBs in both his JR and SR seasons. Then being drafted. I remember when at a camp he shared MVP honors with Malik Zaire (a top 5 QB at the time) yet was still ignored which made me scratch my head.

Its crazy both instate schools missed out on these 2. Makes you scratch your head, especially with how little D-1 talent we have in-state, how do 2 NFL players get missed in the same class?

That's a very good question. I think it just goes to show how difficult it to scout/recruit high school players. Then we land guys like Tamme and Burton who were low rated players and turned out to be NFL Players. It just goes to show there are a lot of variables that can't be accounted for.

 

[mrschwump]

State of Ky players can have good numbers, height, weight, speed, etc, but questions about the dismal competition will always exist. Indications are talent's improving but who these guys face week after week will always be in question.

 

[GYERater]

Kelan Cole was like 5'2" when he graduated high school, not shocked we missed on him.

Taywan Taylor WR for the Titans was also 2013 from PRP and went to WKU, was a 3rd round pick last year. Quick ended up being the 3rd best receiver from the city that year, you just never know with football recruiting.

 

[The-Hack]

Then you have unrated, no D-1 offers Keelan Cole, who is now one of the top Jaquars receivers in the NFL and went to D-2 KWC, and 2 star Logan Woodisde who didn't get a P5 offer

Its crazy both instate schools missed out on these 2.

Well, the fact that no other P5 programs offered makes it a little less crazy.

Hearing directly from coaches some "hints" about recruiting and the parsing of lists, you get the idea that it is easy for pretty good athletes to fall under the radar . . . . sometimes they lack academics or have a juvenile record that has been "rumored" that keeps them from getting offers.

Kentucky kids have a shot through the UK camps to get noticed, without lots of hoopla.

 

[billoliver40]

I saw a write up on the New Orleans Saints Super Bowl team. Seems like the majority of the team had been two or three star kids in high school.
Too short, step slow, always something. Just turned out to be winners when everything clicked right.

 

[The-Hack]

Just turned out to be winners when everything clicked right.

I wonder if a study could be done for those who mature a tad later than others, and then play pro ball.

In my day, most outstanding high school athletes reached close to their final physical height by their 15th or 16th year. Going back to reunions, you get a shock or two that some folks grew lots after HS.

 

[Deeeefense]

The OP's post is well researched and makes a good point. However it's important to point out that recruiting rankings, and for that matter how coaches evaluate players is by it's nature inaccurate since you're dealing with 16 and 17 year old kids. Kids do not mature at the same rate and a lot can happen in a few years of growth.

Recruiting rankings are interesting for everyone but you have to keep in mind that they are nothing more than educated opinions on what a 16/17 year old MIGHT BECOME in a few years.

 

[JC CATS]

I just wanted to take a look at the in-state recruiting failure that was 2013.

So you have the top rated players: Hunter Bivin (was never anything but a backup at ND), James Quick (Was a solid college WR, but never had over 750 yards, got cut by Redskins), Kyle Bolin (Transferred from UofL, final college fball season at Rutgers saw him go 54% and 3 TDs/6 INTs), Ryan Timmons (was a decent WR but never panned out to what he was expected to be), Jason Hatcher (seemed to have a bright football future, but was a mess off the field), and Jacob Hyde (was never anything but a 3rd string, but a WONDERFUL teammate and person)

Then you have unrated, no D-1 offers Keelan Cole, who is now one of the top Jaquars receivers in the NFL and went to D-2 KWC, and 2 star Logan Woodisde who didn't get a P5 offer and was ignored by UofL and UK, and ends up having record seasons, leading the nation in TD passes as a JR, and shattering Toledo records, throwing for over 4,00 yards as a JR and being one of the most accurate QBs in both his JR and SR seasons. Then being drafted. I remember when at a camp he shared MVP honors with Malik Zaire (a top 5 QB at the time) yet was still ignored which made me scratch my head.


Its crazy both instate schools missed out on these 2. Makes you scratch your head, especially with how little D-1 talent we have in-state, how do 2 NFL players get missed in the same class?

Look where they wound up going to school, UK and UL were not the only schools to miss on them!

 

[TTU/UK fan]

Look where they wound up going to school, UK and UL were not the only schools to miss on them!

Yeah but out of state schools and smaller instate school don't have the resources us and UofL have in KY. We are paying coaches hundreds of thousands to recruit the state. WKU did offer Woodside, but you'd expect our schools to be able to find a diamond in the rough in KY if anyone is able to.

 

[The-Hack]

We are paying coaches hundreds of thousands to recruit the state.

So is this an "Oops Stoops" thought, or a

"Faaar Stoops," thought?

they are nothing more than educated opinions on what a 16/17 year old MIGHT BECOME in a few years.

Every year, on post season All American lists, maybe a third of the kids were under the radar types. I always wish our coaches could have a time machine, so we could come up with a whole team of Benny Snell's, and kick arse.

It has happened: I think Northwestern, 1995 is the clearest example of a team coming out of nowhere and winning a major conference title.

 

[dallasg23]

Some kids don’t develop as early as some. Get a guy who finishes the season at 5’9, then grows 4 inches by the time they graduate and go to smal schools and are quite successful.

 

[Lost In FL]

I always wish our coaches could have a time machine, so we could come up with a whole team of Benny Snell's, and kick arse.

You really think we could win in the SEC with 85 stud running backs? Now that is be outside the box thinking.

 

[The-Hack]

You really think we could win in the SEC with 85 stud running backs? Now that is be outside the box thinking.

Deception, I'm tellin' you, deception. Who has the ball, now.

 

[JC CATS]

Yeah but out of state schools and smaller instate school don't have the resources us and UofL have in KY. We are paying coaches hundreds of thousands to recruit the state. WKU did offer Woodside, but you'd expect our schools to be able to find a diamond in the rough in KY if anyone is able to.

Yes and no. Alabama found Damien Harris in Berea Ky. Our staff found Josh Allen a 2 star in New Jersey. The 2 kids we are talking about could have played for OHIO State I assume if they can play for Jacksonville Jags. The OSU has resources. A lot of schools missed these kids and it happens. Our coaches miss some kids and finds some diamonds in the rough

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I just wanted to take a look at the in-state recruiting failure that was 2013.

So you have the top rated players: Hunter Bivin (was never anything but a backup at ND), James Quick (Was a solid college WR, but never had over 750 yards, got cut by Redskins), Kyle Bolin (Transferred from UofL, final college fball season at Rutgers saw him go 54% and 3 TDs/6 INTs), Ryan Timmons (was a decent WR but never panned out to what he was expected to be), Jason Hatcher (seemed to have a bright football future, but was a mess off the field), and Jacob Hyde (was never anything but a 3rd string, but a WONDERFUL teammate and person)

Then you have unrated, no D-1 offers Keelan Cole, who is now one of the top Jaquars receivers in the NFL and went to D-2 KWC, and 2 star Logan Woodisde who didn't get a P5 offer and was ignored by UofL and UK, and ends up having record seasons, leading the nation in TD passes as a JR, and shattering Toledo records, throwing for over 4,00 yards as a JR and being one of the most accurate QBs in both his JR and SR seasons. Then being drafted. I remember when at a camp he shared MVP honors with Malik Zaire (a top 5 QB at the time) yet was still ignored which made me scratch my head.

Its crazy both instate schools missed out on these 2. Makes you scratch your head, especially with how little D-1 talent we have in-state, how do 2 NFL players get missed in the same class?

Things like that happen everywhere. Georgia produces quite a few players and is heavily recruited by teams from all over the country. We have had 5* bust, some signing with UGA and some signing elsewhere. Sometimes it's an injury that sidetracts them, sometimes they were just overrated. On the other end, UGA has signed kids who had zero D1 offers. A DB from South Carolina, Jennings was his last name, can't remember his first one right now, was undersized but was like velcro covering receivers, he went on to a long successful career in the NFL with a couple all star seasons. Thomas Davis had 1 FCS offer and UGA's DC at the time, Van Gorder, went to a BB game to watch another recruit play and offered Davis after the game, he ended up an AA and a long career with multiple All Pro seasons.

Both of those were fairly early in this recruiting frenzy we are in now, both went to small rural schools and were just overlooked. Fair or not, kids get more rankings for how they do in camps than they actually get for playing the game. How quick they can run a short shuttle, run the ladder rope seems to be more important than how well they can actually cover a WR. Of course most times they are the same, but some kids just don't do the camping curcuit, and their rankings suffer for it.

 

[robo222]

I think players get overlooked for a few reasons...
They have a low ranking or a NO ranking
They play in a rural area where competition is not at City level.
Coaches cannot devote enough manpower to send evaluators to every school that says, "we got a kid".
Coaches will build (try) relationships at certain HS and play that card over and over....
Among a few... perhaps the O-boro WO is one of them?

 

[Oldtrainer]

Willy, want to, heart is a must whether it's a football player or a race horse.

 

[gobigblue812]

If a kid is in a rural area or at a small school or both and doesn't attend camps or attends one but has an off day, he can be overlooked.

 

[gobigblue812]

I wonder if Josh Allen went to any camps?

 

[Poetax]

I just wanted to take a look at the in-state recruiting failure that was 2013.

So you have the top rated players: Hunter Bivin (was never anything but a backup at ND), James Quick (Was a solid college WR, but never had over 750 yards, got cut by Redskins), Kyle Bolin (Transferred from UofL, final college fball season at Rutgers saw him go 54% and 3 TDs/6 INTs), Ryan Timmons (was a decent WR but never panned out to what he was expected to be), Jason Hatcher (seemed to have a bright football future, but was a mess off the field), and Jacob Hyde (was never anything but a 3rd string, but a WONDERFUL teammate and person)

Then you have unrated, no D-1 offers Keelan Cole, who is now one of the top Jaquars receivers in the NFL and went to D-2 KWC, and 2 star Logan Woodisde who didn't get a P5 offer and was ignored by UofL and UK, and ends up having record seasons, leading the nation in TD passes as a JR, and shattering Toledo records, throwing for over 4,00 yards as a JR and being one of the most accurate QBs in both his JR and SR seasons. Then being drafted. I remember when at a camp he shared MVP honors with Malik Zaire (a top 5 QB at the time) yet was still ignored which made me scratch my head.

Its crazy both instate schools missed out on these 2. Makes you scratch your head, especially with how little D-1 talent we have in-state, how do 2 NFL players get missed in the same class?







It happens everywhere every year. Let’s take my favorite Ben Roethlisberger, goes to Miami OH, did the big boys in Ohio and surrounding states miss on him? There are many more but like I said, it happens.

 

[mrschwump]

I wonder if Josh Allen went to any camps?

Story I recall about Allen was that in his early HS years in Alabama he was a WR. After his family moved to NJ he grew into a LB/DE. Got lost in between.

 

[TTU/UK fan]

Yes and no. Alabama found Damien Harris in Berea Ky. Our staff found Josh Allen a 2 star in New Jersey. The 2 kids we are talking about could have played for OHIO State I assume if they can play for Jacksonville Jags. The OSU has resources. A lot of schools missed these kids and it happens. Our coaches miss some kids and finds some diamonds in the rough

I can promise you Bama didn't have to "find" 5* Damien Harris lol

Ohio State could probably care less about taking a risk or even glancing for a moment at 2* KY prospects. Its much more our in-state P5 schools fault than Bama or tOSU.

 

[TTU/UK fan]

If a kid is in a rural area or at a small school or both and doesn't attend camps or attends one but has an off day, he can be overlooked.

Logan Woodside attended many camps and won awards. Getting co-MVP honors with top 5, Elite 11 QB recruit Malik Zaire. The BEST part about Logan Woodside? We visited his school and games multiple times recruiting Ryan Timmons, and still missed him. So I think it is pretty fair to say we missed out on one there. I will be fair and say it was Stoops first year, so maybe they didn't have a long period of time to search.

 

[gobigblue812]

Logan Woodside attended many camps and won awards. Getting co-MVP honors with top 5, Elite 11 QB recruit Malik Zaire. The BEST part about Logan Woodside? We visited his school and games multiple times recruiting Ryan Timmons, and still missed him. So I think it is pretty fair to say we missed out on one there. I will be fair and say it was Stoops first year, so maybe they didn't have a long period of time to search.

Who did we sign at QB instead of him?

 

[mrschwump]

Who did we sign at QB instead of him?

Reese Phillips.

 

[JDHoss]

As JRowland and Woody Womack have stated before that there are just way too many players out there to evaluate, and the vast majority of these evaluations occur at camps where you're trying to watch and evaluate a set number of prospects running through drills, throwing and catching the football. Not everyone is going to be seen and can get lost in the shuffle with that many guys with so few eyes on them. Once football season starts, these guys don't get out much to actually watch guys play football.

Sometimes, people just miss, even when they watch guys play. I once sent Fat Claude a season highlight tape of a local RB after his sophomore season. Fat Claude told the man who gave me his contact info that this RB couldn't play at this level. It wouldn't have mattered anyway, because this kid wouldn't have given Dumme and his circus clowns the time of day after his junior season. He went on to star at Notre Dame, was drafted in the 2nd round and played 6 NFL seasons.

I enjoy keeping up with recruiting articles, Hudl films and the star gazing, but I try to never let myself get too excited or too down over guys that I haven't seen play in person or at the very least know someone who has. Even if I've seen them play, there's still way too many variables to make definitive statement off of one game.

 

[jauk11]

Reese Phillips.

True. And here is the listing of Woodside's commitment:
Logan Woodside
QB
Frankfort, KY 6'3" 210# 5.4 7/26/12

Notice the commitment date, he committed almost six months before Stoops came to UK. Also notice that Philips was a three star, AND that UK the previous year had signed not just four star 6' 5" 232# Towles, that completed IIRC over forty TD passes to one interception his senior year but also another three star QB that also started here. Woodside was about the hardest worker around, and no doubt improved a lot AFTER he signed with Toledo, based on the numbers do you think he might have not even considered signing with UK with Towles here?

Then also, as I have pointed out before, as recently as 2010 Kentucky didn't have a four star in the entire state. I suspect this whole hullabaloo is just another attempt to make Stoops look bad.

FAAR THE COACH.

 

[ukalum1988]

Who did we sign at QB instead of him?

Reese Phillips.

The one with the really hot mom IIRC....

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yeah but out of state schools and smaller instate school don't have the resources us and UofL have in KY. We are paying coaches hundreds of thousands to recruit the state. WKU did offer Woodside, but you'd expect our schools to be able to find a diamond in the rough in KY if anyone is able to.

I woulld put T Taylor from WKU in that group, but not Cole or Woodside. Taylor went to PRP and WKU saw his speed and overlooked his other deficiencies. You can argue that UL and UK, both schools who took a good look, missed on him. There were fans from both schools who wanted him. UK’s staff was working on the fly and could not develop the resources as quickly, having just been hired. Sometimes, the tweener gets the offer because he has been to a camp at the school and/or relationships have been built. That said, when you look at UK’s WR class that year, it looked solid.

But, Cole went to Wesleyan. That means EKU, Murray St, WKU, IU, etc. all missed. He is a relative to a friend of mine. He went to Ky Wes for a reason and everyone at other levels missed on him.

With QBs, the fact that a kid goes to Toledo, that school with an unlimited out of state recruiting budget, tells us a great deal. QBs are seen by out of state and in state schools alike. UK and UL and WKU and others did not need in-state budgets to assess him. We know he was known to P5 schools and did not get the offers. It happens. It’s not a revelation or an aha moment.

Rather, they are good stories. One about a kid who blossomed after high school in a huge way (worked very hard at his craft) and one who the bigger schools would not take the risk for and he proved them wrong.

It makes for an interesting story and yet another example of recruiting rankings not being exact.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Reese Phillips.

Reese was a carryover from the old staff. We were all happy that Stoops and his staff were able to re-recruit him and keep him in the fold, as we thought he was the diamond in the rough that Sanders had discovered. I doubt coaching at FSU gave Stoops much of an opportunity to evaluate in-state QB talent. Likewise for Brown, who probably should have had better contacts. Good coaches. Good recruiters. Good evaluators of talent. It happens. Not worth much rubber necking, though.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Story I recall about Allen was that in his early HS years in Alabama he was a WR. After his family moved to NJ he grew into a LB/DE. Got lost in between.

Rutgers did not offer until after UK.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Yes and no. Alabama found Damien Harris in Berea Ky. Our staff found Josh Allen a 2 star in New Jersey. The 2 kids we are talking about could have played for OHIO State I assume if they can play for Jacksonville Jags. The OSU has resources. A lot of schools missed these kids and it happens. Our coaches miss some kids and finds some diamonds in the rough

D. Harris was a 5* kid far from being unknown...

 

[jauk11]

Rutgers did not offer until after UK.

Right, and his HS coach had tried to get them to recruit him for quite a while.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Logan Woodside attended many camps and won awards. Getting co-MVP honors with top 5, Elite 11 QB recruit Malik Zaire. The BEST part about Logan Woodside? We visited his school and games multiple times recruiting Ryan Timmons, and still missed him. So I think it is pretty fair to say we missed out on one there. I will be fair and say it was Stoops first year, so maybe they didn't have a long period of time to search.

Seeing the final results it turned out best for him...probably never played at UK.

 

[seccats04]

Rutgers did not offer until after UK.

I don't think they offered at all. I remember reading an article about his HS coach basically begging them to offer but they never did. He said they would regret it.

 

[seccats04]

Reese Phillips.

Didn't he end up like 3rd string at Montana? The most important position on a football team and this is the kind of talent Joker was bringing in. Makes me sick.

This important position is the big difference between UL and UK and why they've routinely kicked our tails recently (minus last year of course...when we had great QB play that game). They have been much better at QB over the years with guys like Brohm, Lefors, Ragone, Bridgewater, LJ. There was a couple of years when Brooks was here that UL was average at QB and we beat them. Besides the QB position I'd say we're pretty equal overall in terms of talent and depth. But we have to step it up at QB.

 

[TTU/UK fan]

True. And here is the listing of Woodside's commitment:
Logan Woodside
QB
Frankfort, KY 6'3" 210# 5.4 7/26/12

Notice the commitment date, he committed almost six months before Stoops came to UK. Also notice that Philips was a three star, AND that UK the previous year had signed not just four star 6' 5" 232# Towles, that completed IIRC over forty TD passes to one interception his senior year but also another three star QB that also started here. Woodside was about the hardest worker around, and no doubt improved a lot AFTER he signed with Toledo, based on the numbers do you think he might have not even considered signing with UK with Towles here?

Then also, as I have pointed out before, as recently as 2010 Kentucky didn't have a four star in the entire state. I suspect this whole hullabaloo is just another attempt to make Stoops look bad.

FAAR THE COACH.

Noone, on this entire thread, has said anything about blaming Stoops.

How come we can't have a nice conversation about a mistake our football team may have made without it meaning we want Stoops fired?

Geez, some here don't allow anything but 100% positive or else it MUST mean you want Stoops fired. Gets old.

I brought up a conversation point for people to key in their thoughts, noone is talking negative about Stoops. Just stop.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Some of us are late bloomers. My grandmother was at a loss for words when she saw I had grown almost 7 inches from my high school graduation she attended to Christmas the same year when I visited her. It happens.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yeah but out of state schools and smaller instate school don't have the resources us and UofL have in KY. We are paying coaches hundreds of thousands to recruit the state. WKU did offer Woodside, but you'd expect our schools to be able to find a diamond in the rough in KY if anyone is able to.

Hard not to read criticism in the above post. Of course we know Stoops was hired after the football season and did not get to see these kids perform at his camp, but your comments do seem critical of Stoops’ staff.