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Jones saying he's hearing Gabriel may be gone soon

I was bending including 3 year players, which WG will be. The actual fact is no team has won without significant contributions by 4 year players. We tried that in 14, 15, 18 and we will again in 19. Losing a quality 3 year player like WG would be bad.

The fact is virtually no team has tried, and tons of teams lose every year with all kinds of upperclassmen. There's just no formula to it.

What if we bring in Daum or Travis to replace Wenyen? Will it not count if we lose because he's new to the system but count if we win because they're technically experienced?
 
So stupid. We have a down year and still lose more players than any other program (besides Duke). When will this end?

That's the part that gets me. I totally get the mass exodus after, for example, the 2015 season, when we were 38-1 and clearly had far more talent and depth than anyone in the country.

But for a season when we had 11 losses and were decidedly mediocre most of the year to STILL have more early draft entrants than any other program? That's just crazy to me.
 
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Yeah, I am fine with trying to do with mostly freshmen, if those freshmen are the elite of the elite, and we throw in a sophomore, junior or transfer in there. But we can't do it with very good, but not great classes and very little returning talent.

but we cant win a title at the rate folks expect to win one either. i mean lets start there first. this isnt college football where 3 teams win a title over a 20 year span.
 
I still don't think that stops it though. It just moves the talent line required.

If the G-League develops, that means there's more spots for more players to get paid. Then the elite guys jump straight to the league. Then the guys left behind dominate college because there's no elite talent and move on to take the G-League spots vacated when the elite guys move to the NBA.

There's no way to *really* fix it, because being paid actual dollars is way better than being paid in a degree you don't want and won't use and we can't allow *that* or this whole thing will be a pseudo-amateur sham. [eyeroll]
What the NBA needs to look at is to what extent they actually want the flood of players they see every year. Is it in their interest to get the elites ASAP, but discourage everyone else?

But I generally agree with you. College basketball does not have a bright future, at least not in any way similar to what was once the norm. College baseball level seems like a good case scenario long-term.
 
I think you are right. I guess my point is that trying seems to require a hell of a frosh class. I dont see that next year, though perhaps 2019 is trending that way. Impossible to know.

I agree, which is why I'm glad to see Cal back after the big talent. If you're only getting one year out of anyone in the top 35, I'd rather have the guy ranked #1 than the guy ranked 29th.

I also think Cal is doing all he can given the circumstances. If SKJ, Wenyen, Quade, etc. want to leave, all you can do is replace them with the best guys available. If that's Hagans and Montgomery and Maxey and a grad transfer, that's what we'll roll with.

Those guys might not get it done, but the odds are better than if you leave the roster thin and whine that they shouldn't have left.
 
but we cant win a title at the rate folks expect to win one either. i mean lets start there first. this isnt college football where 3 teams win a title over a 20 year span.

Agreed, and I have never been a Cal basher for not winning more titles. I hate those posters. I'm just saying continuing to lose marginal at best players is not the pattern we want to continue. I want to be in the mix for a title, even if it doesn't work out. Like the 2017 team. We were one shot away from probably winning another one.
 
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Murray averaged 20 ppg. Hard for a SG to dominate, and we didn't really have the team for anyone to dominate that year, but I'd put him in their category.

Heck add Fox to that. His game blew up to where he had to go. Not a wrong decision either judging from the result.
 
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Yeah but you still need those players in practice and in games to show the freshman how it is.
Also you want players who have been in the NCAA. Gabriel went to a regional final in 2017 and won two games in 2018. If you are left with green players, no matter how talented, who haven't been there before it's that much harder to get to a FF.
 
Agreed, and I have never been a Cal basher for not winning more titles. I hate those posters. I'm just saying continuing to lose marginal at best players is not the pattern we want to continue. I want to be in the mix for a title, even if it doesn't work out. Like the 2017 team. We were one shot away from probably winning another one.

GP
 
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Like the 2017 team. We were one shot away from probably winning another one.

I agree here, but we were actually one shot away from overtime in the elite eight. Lots of people have rounded that all the way up to one shot from #9. We haven't come any closer than one shot away from OT in the elite eight in 3 years. People are acting like we just had a great team that went to the final four, but we didn't. Way things are looking, we'll have another 25-ish wins 10-ish loss team next year. This culture is not sustainable and isn't producing like it did at the beginning of Cal's tenure.
 
Same slogan that brought us the two players in your avatar that delivered our only title since I was in elementary school.

Yeah, also the same slogan that is now pushing marginal NBA talent out the door ASAP. It had it's time, it was effective for a while, but it's time to change.
 
This culture that Cal has created is ridiculous. These guys feel like total failures if they don't leave after 2 years. We will never win another title with all freshmen every year unless the talent level is so much greater than everybody else.

Agreed, not having a junior or senior 2 years in a row means something is definitely wrong with our locker room. I believe MJ when he says the culture in the locker room is you're a failure if you are still at UK after 2 years.
 
It's starting to look like we're gonna be younger next year than this year, which is hard to believe. Very real possibility that Wenyen, PJ, and Quade leave and there goes almost all of our experience. Still don't know if Vanderbilt will be healthy or not. I think the only way to change this is to recruit a few 3 or 4 stars every year that don't mind staying around for a while and developing. I understand recruiting the best players you can get, but if they are all 5 stars they expect to be in the NBA within a year or two and we'll never have any experienced players.
 
This is all getting so ridiculous.

Losing this many fringe (at best) NBA guys off a disappointing, mediocre team is a friggin joke.
 
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Yeah, also the same slogan that is now pushing marginal NBA talent out the door ASAP. It had it's time, it was effective for a while, but it's time to change.

To what? How? Recruiting lower-tier 5-stars that will stick around? Like SKJ and Wenyen and maybe Quade? Maybe SGA? Booker?

The reason it stopped working is because we stopped getting those guys. Changing in the first place was the problem, if you want to call it a problem.
 
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To what? How? Recruiting lower-tier 5-stars that will stick around? Like SKJ and Wenyen and maybe Quade? Maybe SGA? Booker?

The reason it stopped working is because we stopped getting those guys. Changing in the first place was the problem, if you want to call it a problem.

Do you even remember who was on that 2012 team? We don't win it all without Miller, Jones and Lamb... fringe NBA guys who played multiple years.

I don't think it can be reversed at this point. The culture of one and done is so embedded in our program that it's beyond changing.

If your entire program's success revolves around "get ridiculously crazy recruiting classes every year or bust" I'm pretty skeptical about the chances at another title.
 
its not going too. QG and/or PJ will also be leaving. so since its not going to stop....what are you going to do about it?

One thing that could have been done was to keep Hump. You can never convince me Cal could not have convinced Isaac to stay one more year maybe even two.

But Cal thot/hoped he could get Bamba and so he didn't feel the need to even consider keeping Hump. Cal ALWAYS wants the shiny new thing and WANTS to be young.

Gabriel has made normal progress his two years and is a typical four year player. Think an Amile Jefferson type who got better every year for 5 years.
If he's leaving imo it will be because Cal doesn't really care if he does.
 
Gabriel could play a big role for us next year. Could really improve his game. No way he is ready for the NBA. Really hope he changes his mind and come back.
 
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This culture that Cal has created is ridiculous. These guys feel like total failures if they don't leave after 2 years. We will never win another title with all freshmen every year unless the talent level is so much greater than everybody else.
Gabriel knows he's not NBA caliber as of no
Sorta how Duke had a transcendent Bagley , very solid upperclassmen along with “best recruiting class ever” last year and made it exactly ONE game further than the Cats? Also not winning their Conference Tourney ? What culture is K creating at Duke?
They feel like “total failures ?” Did some of our players say they felt like total failures ?



IF Gabriel leaves it’s a terrible decision on his part. In no way is he remotely ready for the NBA, but Cal can only do so much. I’m very confident Cal and Co have told Gabriel he’s better off returning and working on his game, but at the end of the day he’s a 20 something year old who will make his own decisions.

GOOD on Cal though for busting his A$$ to secure some top guys for next years team though


Edit- not being combative Seccats , just sayin :)
This post will piss people off and hurt feelings. Some of our fans don't like hearing the truth. Cal absolutely can not stop anyone from leaving school whether it be to transfer or going pro.
 
That hurts, but its Vanderbilt and Washington that are the ones we need to return. If they return with the guys we have coming in we will be in great shape.

The problem is we have said that about everyone. Ok SGA is gone but if we get knox back, OK Knox is gone but if we get Diallo back, OK Diallo is gone but if we get Gabriel back, now OK Gabriel is gone but if we get Washington back. Within a few days we will be looking at it like well at least we have Richards back. Just about 10 days ago there was a chance it might have just been one departure and now we are starting over again. Definitely more frustrating than other off seasons so far. At some point this really will have to change.
 
One thing that could have been done was to keep Hump. You can never convince me Cal could not have convinced Isaac to stay one more year maybe even two.

But Cal thot/hoped he could get Bamba and so he didn't feel the need to even consider keeping Hump. Cal ALWAYS wants the shiny new thing and WANTS to be young.

Gabriel has made normal progress his two years and is a typical four year player. Think an Amile Jefferson type who got better every year for 5 years.
If he's leaving imo it will be because Cal doesn't really care if he does.



Some people won’t accept reality.

How does Cal convince a player to stay when the following occurred:

10,000 miles from home
NBA did not offer much encouragement
His spot was seeeminy going to add Nick and Bamba
His country’s pro team offered him a lucrative contract to come home and play immediately.

But you think Cal’s pitch of stay here for free and play behind NR and Bamba this season and who knows who the next would be convincing?

Forget about what you want Isaac, you need to stay and entertain entitled fans from your backup spot for 2 more seasons....
 
It's whining to not be happy that we may lose at least 6 players off this year's team? Now, if we get a grad transfer to replace WG, I'll feel better. And I will still be confident if we keep PJ, JV and QG. But this hemorraging has to stop.

It won't stop, it is what it is.. Tubby couldn't recruit the big ones, Billy G. hated life and Cal can't stop flushing players in and out of the program. I think if Cal wanted to do this for his glory and the glory of Kentucky, he would have changed his philosophy. But he has said it repeatedly in his book, in 30 for 30 and in millions of interviews that what's most important to him is getting the guys he coaches to make money. We might be lucky to win another one in his tenure.
 
This culture that Cal has created is ridiculous. These guys feel like total failures if they don't leave after 2 years. We will never win another title with all freshmen every year unless the talent level is so much greater than everybody else.

Cal didn't create the culture; AAU ball, "mentors and handlers," shoe companies, mix tapes...created and perpetuated the culture. Before that there were McGrady, Kobe, LeBron, etc. He is just trying to use this "culture" like the cheap whore it has become for his/our benefit.
 
Some people won’t accept reality.

How does Cal convince a player to stay when the following occurred:

10,000 miles from home
NBA did not offer much encouragement
His spot was seeeminy going to add Nick and Bamba
His country’s pro team offered him a lucrative contract to come home and play immediately.

But you think Cal’s pitch of stay here for free and play behind NR and Bamba this season and who knows who the next would be convincing?

Forget about what you want Isaac, you need to stay and entertain entitled fans from your backup spot for 2 more seasons....
This couldn't be anymore poetic. Absolutely written beautifully and to a T.
 
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Do you even remember who was on that 2012 team? We don't win it all without Miller, Jones and Lamb... fringe NBA guys who played multiple years.

I don't think it can be reversed at this point. The culture of one and done is so embedded in our program that it's beyond changing.

If your entire program's success revolves around "get ridiculously crazy recruiting classes every year or bust" I'm pretty skeptical about the chances at another title.

So your solution is?
 
Cal didn't create the culture; AAU ball, "mentors and handlers," shoe companies, mix tapes...created and perpetuated the culture. Before that there were McGrady, Kobe, LeBron, etc. He is just trying to use this "culture" like the cheap whore it has become for his/our benefit.

So if this is the case, why hasn't it affected Michigan, UNC and Villanova? They recruit guys that participate in the AAU circuit..
 
The fact is virtually no team has tried, and tons of teams lose every year with all kinds of upperclassmen. There's just no formula to it.

What if we bring in Daum or Travis to replace Wenyen? Will it not count if we lose because he's new to the system but count if we win because they're technically experienced?
Just depends on what narrative one is pushing...
 
So if this is the case, why hasn't it affected Michigan, UNC and Villanova? They recruit guys that participate in the AAU circuit..

So does Arizona, LSU, Washington, Missouri, Texas, Miami, Oregon, UCLA and every other team in the NCAA. Cal didn't create the one and done culture, neither did AAU by itself.
 
So your solution is?

I never tried to offer a solution. Like I said, I think the culture is beyond changing at this point and there's no indication Cal has any desire to try to change it. It's become a dick measuring contest with K. It was fun for a while but I'm just tired of it. The ridiculous amount of roster turnover is a major problem in my opinion.
 
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