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It’s time to accept the system is broken

RunninRichie

All-American
Sep 5, 2019
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We can’t win titles with mostly freshman, we can’t do it. If you want proof look no further than Cal’s 3 best teams at UK
2012 (38-2)
Sophomores
Terrance Jones
Doron Lamb
Seniors
Darrius Miller
Elroy Vargas
2015(38-1)
Juniors
Willie Cauley-Stein
Alex Poythress
Sophomores
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Marcus Lee
2017(32-6)
Sophomores
Briscoe
Humphries
Seniors
Willis
Hawkins
Look at cals youngest teams
2018-sweet 16 loss
2016- second round loss
2013-NIT first round loss
 
I agree.

But the way Cal treats kids that aren't NBA ready from the time they arrive, it's hard to see kids staying 3/4 years. The way he threw his Clipboard in the 2nd half when Allen missed a 3 coming out of a timeout made me SICK!! Then he jumped all over him again at the end of the game for some odd reason even though Mintz dribbled the length of the court and jacked up a contested 3. That's ridiculous!!!!

The way Cal treats the kids that we need to stay 3/4 years is a big reason they don't stay. It's become a pattern.
 
I agree.

But the way Cal treats kids that aren't NBA ready from the time they arrive, it's hard to see kids staying 3/4 years. The way he threw his Clipboard in the 2nd half when Allen missed a 3 coming out of a timeout made me SICK!! Then he jumped all over him again at the ned of the game for some odd reason even though Mintz dribbled the length of the court and jacked up a contested 3. That's ridiculous!!!!

The way Cal treats the kids that we need to stay 3/4 years is a big reason they don't stay. It's become a pattern.
It’s the culture of “if i’m not NBA ready in 1-2 years i’m a failure”. Allen is a damn good shooter his stroke is money, BUT HE NEEDS SHOTS IN GAMES TO GET WARMED UP. Why didn’t cal ride Askew’s ass? He couldn’t handle 4 kindergartners pressuring him on the ball. How many TOs to assist does Askew have? don’t bother, I know the answer:11/7
 
My biggest gripe isn’t the premature draft entries. Those guys have their mind set on the pros and have had one foot out the door since they got to campus. The biggest issue we have is the transfers. Those are the guys that want to play college ball and develop, but they never end up doing it here.

I don’t really know what the solution is to this problem to be honest. We rely on at least 2 top 10 guys to come here for this system to work. When one of them wants to come here and plays the same position as a less talented, yet experienced sophomore, can we afford to pass on them when getting top 10 recruits isn’t the guarantee it used to be?
 
It’s the culture of “if i’m not NBA ready in 1-2 years i’m a failure”. Allen is a damn good shooter his stroke is money, BUT HE NEEDS SHOTS IN GAMES TO GET WARMED UP. Why didn’t cal ride Askew’s ass? He couldn’t handle 4 kindergartners pressuring him on the ball. How many TOs to assist does Askew have? don’t bother, I know the answer:11/7
It's definitely a double standard for the kids that are 5 stars or future NBA locks in Cals opinion and the kids that are here to develop. What pisses me off the most is he seems to be even HARDER on the kids that are from Kentucky. He rode Derek Willis' butt for his first 2 1/2 seasons until he needed him to contribute.

The pattern lately is the kids that are supposed to be knock down shooters. Baker, Juzang and now Allen were held to a different standard than the other players. I believe this is a big reason why he can't develop role players.

It really ticks me off!!
 
It's definitely a double standard for the kids that are 5 stars or future NBA locks in Cals opinion and the kids that are here to develop. What pisses me off the most is he seems to be even HARDER on the kids that are from Kentucky. He rode Derek Willis' butt for his first 2 1/2 seasons until he needed him to contribute.

The pattern lately is the kids that are supposed to be knock down shooters. Baker, Juzang and now Allen were held to a different standard than the other players. I believe this is a big reason why he can't develop role players.

It really ticks me off!!
I tell you one thing, Allen better not transfer. he’s the only player on the team I feel a connection with.
 
Juzang actually got some decent PT here. He was going back home, no matter what. The rest of these 4-stars need to be getting at least 10 mins a game, or they are out of here. The only exception to this was Jon Hood.
 
Juzang actually got some decent PT here. He was going back home, no matter what. The rest of these 4-stars need to be getting at least 10 mins a game, or they are out of here. The only exception to this was Jon Hood.
No. Juzang was at best ineffective and at worst just plain bad.
Another example of taking an EE when he wasn’t ready. Have to stop relying on 17 and 18 year olds. This is ridiculous.
 
I tell you one thing, Allen better not transfer. he’s the only player on the team I feel a connection with.
You know he's already thinking it. With Cal throwing the clipboard when he missed a 3 and then bitching him out, after the game per Jones on postgame. I'd be thinking it and frankly I would not blame him. Cal needs to earn his money and find out how to effectively use Allen. He needs time and touches. His skill would open up the brick layers drives to the basket.
 
We can’t win titles with mostly freshman, we can’t do it. If you want proof look no further than Cal’s 3 best teams at UK
2012 (38-2)
Sophomores
Terrance Jones
Doron Lamb
Seniors
Darrius Miller
Elroy Vargas
2015(38-1)
Juniors
Willie Cauley-Stein
Alex Poythress
Sophomores
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Marcus Lee
2017(32-6)
Sophomores
Briscoe
Humphries
Seniors
Willis
Hawkins
Look at cals youngest teams
2018-sweet 16 loss
2016- second round loss
2013-NIT first round loss
Damn bruh, you were a big pumper. If you have turned the corner, Cal is in trouble
 
You know he's already thinking it. With Cal throwing the clipboard when he missed a 3 and then bitching him out, per Jones on postgame. I'd be thinking it and frankly I would not blame him. Cal needs to earn his money and find out how to effectively use Allen. He needs time and touches. His skill would open up the brick layers drives to the basket.
Allen hit a big three(our first), and never touched the ball again that half. We were up 13, and reverted back to AAU ball and let KU back in it. I went to bed at halftime, because I know Self was going to put coach Cal the second half. He always does. I have posted many times Cal treats the players different, long leash=the guys he is pushing for the draft, short leash= the guys we need to stay and develope. Why would any player stay and get that type of abuse when he sees other guys screwing up left and right and stay on the floor?
 
We can’t win titles with mostly freshman, we can’t do it. If you want proof look no further than Cal’s 3 best teams at UK
2012 (38-2)
Sophomores
Terrance Jones
Doron Lamb
Seniors
Darrius Miller
Elroy Vargas
2015(38-1)
Juniors
Willie Cauley-Stein
Alex Poythress
Sophomores
Andrew Harrison
Aaron Harrison
Dakari Johnson
Marcus Lee
2017(32-6)
Sophomores
Briscoe
Humphries
Seniors
Willis
Hawkins
Look at cals youngest teams
2018-sweet 16 loss
2016- second round loss
2013-NIT first round loss
Wait, are you saying you're off the Cal train? I know you've been pretty close to on the fence about it based on some if your recent posts, but it looks like you just pole vaulted over the fence.
 
You know he's already thinking it. With Cal throwing the clipboard when he missed a 3 and then bitching him out, after the game per Jones on postgame. I'd be thinking it and frankly I would not blame him. Cal needs to earn his money and find out how to effectively use Allen. He needs time and touches. His skill would open up the brick layers drives to the basket.
Why would he dog out Allen? For missing an open three? How many have Boston, Clarke, and Askew missed in the last two games?
 
I agree.

But the way Cal treats kids that aren't NBA ready from the time they arrive, it's hard to see kids staying 3/4 years. The way he threw his Clipboard in the 2nd half when Allen missed a 3 coming out of a timeout made me SICK!! Then he jumped all over him again at the end of the game for some odd reason even though Mintz dribbled the length of the court and jacked up a contested 3. That's ridiculous!!!!

The way Cal treats the kids that we need to stay 3/4 years is a big reason they don't stay. It's become a pattern.
Cal always seems to us certain kids a whipping boys, and then lets his so called NBA prospects get away with everything, he plays favorite, look at what he did to Brown and why Brown is not here anymore.
 
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Why would he dog out Allen? For missing an open three? How many have Boston, Clarke, and Askew missed in the last two games?
I read a poster said it could have been for Allen not fighting through a screen and getting to the right spot. As long as Cal treats all the same it is fine. It’s obvious he does not do that.
 
You know he's already thinking it. With Cal throwing the clipboard when he missed a 3 and then bitching him out, after the game per Jones on postgame. I'd be thinking it and frankly I would not blame him. Cal needs to earn his money and find out how to effectively use Allen. He needs time and touches. His skill would open up the brick layers drives to the basket.

anyone have a clip of the clipboard throw ? i missed it .
 
Why would he dog out Allen? For missing an open three? How many have Boston, Clarke, and Askew missed in the last two games?
Probably chewed him out because that wasn't the play Calipari wanted to run. It looks like Allen broke it off and shot the ball.
Yeah, that would piss me off too. But I wouldn’t put myself in this position like Cal does.
 
No. Juzang was at best ineffective and at worst just plain bad.
Another example of taking an EE when he wasn’t ready. Have to stop relying on 17 and 18 year olds. This is ridiculous.
Not taking Hollingsworth then taking Baker 3 months later was the start. He is going to end up top 5 in all-time scoring at WKU. Local kids at least give you a better shot of them sticking through not playing much.
 
Probably chewed him out because that wasn't the play Calipari wanted to run. It looks like Allen broke it off and shot the ball.
Yeah, that would piss me off too. But I wouldn’t put myself in this position like Cal does.
Play? What play? I haven’t seen a basketball play in years from Cal. Well unless you call that weave a play or dribble a hole in the floor then charge like a bull into 6 Players in the middle and throw up a circus shot.
 
It’s tough to build a team year after year off of freshman and a couple grad transfers. One of the reasons I always welcome a guy coming back, even if it chases off some potential 5 star. It helps to have veteran players who have gone through it, and can help lead the youngings.
 
I don't know...when your best shooter has an open 3 point look, you'd think he'd want him to take it.
Oh I'm sure, but if Cal drew up a play, he wants them to run it and he has a reason he wants you to run that play. Probably multiple reasons.
If guys are going to do their own thing, this will become a permanent version of AAU ball.
However, Clarke and Boston need to catch hell too, they kill us on offense.
Askew shouldn't be on the court period. At any other school, Askew would see spot minutes while he learned the game, but not at UK, at UK, Cal forces that square peg into the round hole until the edges wear off and it fits. Win or lose.
 
It’s tough to build a team year after year off of freshman and a couple grad transfers. One of the reasons I always welcome a guy coming back, even if it chases off some potential 5 star. It helps to have veteran players who have gone through it, and can help lead the youngings.
Can't find the exact stat but the benchmark I remember seeing is every champion has had at least 30% returning production. We are at less than 5% and he isn't playing yet. Grad transfers could skew that a little but they do not give you the same type of experience. We are also seeing the extreme challenge of just plain lack of strength. Skinny wings like Boston and Clarke just have a tough time adjusting to the physicality. Askew is picking up his dribble and just getting bullied.
 
Cal seems to value physical mismatches more than anything else. Tall guards. Seven foot big men. "Long" wings. That's all well and good but the trend in college basketball (and the NBA) over the past decade has been skill over "athleticism". Cal has not adapted.
And as Richmond showed you can put small guys on those long guards and get under them and flop if needed. The length will be a huge asset in a few years in the NBA when they have some strength and the more wide open game. In college it really is not much of an advantage.
 
For perspective, the lineup KU ran out there last night that turned the game and closed out with was the following who had these rankings coming out of HS:

Garrett #55
Harris #94
Agbaji #132
Braun #130
Wilson #53

Except for Garrett, Self will have those guys all back next year too, which means they’ll
keep getting better. Those fans that want to win the recruiting wars, and have the top class every year I think are blinded. A #1 class ranking means another 3-4 guys who will all think they are expected to go 1 and done. Cal promotes this as the expectation, so why wouldn’t hey think that? It’s like if you aren’t then you are somehow not successful, so these kids feel that pressure. This is on Cal as it’s the culture he’s created.

Braun, a 6’6 unathletic guard with no great wingspan, had 13...13!...rebounds and sealed it with his final one at the end last night. Give me a 130th ranked player like that who will hustle and outwork everyone, oh and stay for 4 years and greatly improve, all day. That type of player has way more value than any of the 1 and done guards that have been coming through the system lately.
 
One of the most disheartening things I keep reading is how much these guys hate being in school. EJ left to go be a basketball vagabond because he hated being in school (ie hated being at UK). Meanwhile, players apparently don't hate being at Duke, UNC, Villanova, or KU.

Hard to have guys stay for more than two years when being at UK is the absolute worst time of their life.
 
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