Instead of the Wildcat (esp. with Bowden)

[gamecockcat]

Why not line him up under center and run more of a triple option? I remember the way Nebraska ran it with Tommy Frazier, dive to the FB, come down the line and either keep, pitch or step back 2 steps and throw. I would think the blocking would be somewhat similar to an RPO and would give the offense a totally different look instead of the very predictable WC. The WC, with very few exceptions, just doesn't consistently work. Everyone in the stadium knows the RB is going to keep the ball and run 90% of the time between the tackles. So the D loads the box and run blitzes and the WC is stuffed once again. We've seen GaTech and Navy run the triple option extremely effectively. Instead of a WC package, why not a package of triple option with Bowden the QB? Could not be any worse.

Throwing a lob way down field is a misuse of Bowden's talents. He needs to be coming down the line, step back 2 steps and hit a crossing pattern or a seam when the D comes up to stop the option.

 

[WildCard]

Mainly because the triple option is more of an offense, not just a play you add in for the next game. GT and Navy are 100% committed to their brand of option football and practice it every day at the expense of other things (i.e., passing game). OTOH, the "backside read" is a very simple play to learn and run and puts an option play in just about everyone's offense.

FWIW, most teams that run a WildCat set do not really run true "option football" with a full time RB part timing at QB.

Peace

 

[dallasg23]

That’s a terrible idea. We don’t have the personnel to run the triple option even if it’s part time. The best thing they could do is use Bowden in the wildcat full time. It’s only predictable if you allow it to be. And the cats have allowed it to be. You can’t run Benny in the wildcat 1000 times and then stick Bowden in there and expect the defense to play it the same way knowing the other dude will throw the ball. The reason it worked so well for Cobb is because it was always him. No else.

 

[vhcat70]

LB in wc is a giveaway of a pass. Need to run him some from that or forget it.

 

[BARRYBLUE1]

Retire the wildcat. Use run-pass option more. Why does Johnson not run more?

 

[gamecockcat]

Mainly because the triple option is more of an offense, not just a play you add in for the next game. GT and Navy are 100% committed to their brand of option football and practice it every day at the expense of other things (i.e., passing game). OTOH, the "backside read" is a very simple play to learn and run and puts an option play in just about everyone's offense.

FWIW, most teams that run a WildCat set do not really run true "option football" with a full time RB part timing at QB.

Peace

I hear what you're saying but, and I'm not being argumentative, isn't an RPO an 'option' play in much the same way as a true triple option is? Read the dive play and either pass or QB takes off. While there isn't a 3rd option to pitch to, we certainly run enough jet sweeps to bring another potential ballcarrier into the picture. I'm absolutely not saying run the triple option full time - no way. But, instead of the vanilla WC, why not a more varied triple option package of a handful of plays? Surely it couldn't be that much more difficult to learn than the WC and it would have to be harder to stop than a direct snap, up the middle play. If there is something I'm missing that's more technical, please inform me as I truly don't know how the blocking schemes would have to change but I'm only guessing that it's not much different than an RPO play.

Thanks.

 

[truebluewildcat]

I'm a fan of the multiple run option/rpo offense, especially with the current players we have.

We had the personnel to do it with a SJ, Boom, and Benny last year, and this year with the emergence of Bowden.

Our OL isn't really good enough to give the QB time in a more traditional balanced attack, but they have been good enough in run blocking.

With that said, I realize you can't just willy nilly install a new offense like that. However, I think there was some opportunity to run some kind of option out of the Wildcat.

I think it's silly to split SJ out wide in the WC when he is a perfect WC/multiple run option/rpo QB. Would also agree that our WC is too predictable because Benny and King run, and Bowden will come in to pass.

Line up SJ in the wildcat with Benny, Bowden, and King, the possibilities are endless. Defenses would have to respect the potential for anything instead of zeroing in on the RB who's going run dive up the middle or power to either side.

Bowden, Benny, and King are returning next year, so I think the staff needs to consider utilizing those guys in the multiple run option and run pass option.

Teams have to respect Benny first, and would have to commit to him. That leaves opportunity for Bowden and King on the ground and Conrad, in the pass option.

Go old school flexbone with the "wildcat" package. Bowden at QB, Benny behind him, and King split out as a wing back. You can run basically an entire offense out of that simple formation. Bowden can pass, he can keep, he can give it to Benny on a dive, King on a veer option.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Mainly because the triple option is more of an offense, not just a play you add in for the next game. GT and Navy are 100% committed to their brand of option football and practice it every day at the expense of other things (i.e., passing game). OTOH, the "backside read" is a very simple play to learn and run and puts an option play in just about everyone's offense.

FWIW, most teams that run a WildCat set do not really run true "option football" with a full time RB part timing at QB.

Peace

Mark Stoops would be better off going to triple option offense...I think he would be much more comfortable with it.

 

[sluggercatfan]

I'm a fan of the multiple run option/rpo offense, especially with the current players we have.

We had the personnel to do it with a SJ, Boom, and Benny last year, and this year with the emergence of Bowden.

Our OL isn't really good enough to give the QB time in a more traditional balanced attack, but they have been good enough in run blocking.

With that said, I realize you can't just willy nilly install a new offense like that. However, I think there was some opportunity to run some kind of option out of the Wildcat.

I think it's silly to split SJ out wide in the WC when he is a perfect WC/multiple run option/rpo QB. Would also agree that our WC is too predictable because Benny and King run, and Bowden will come in to pass.

Line up SJ in the wildcat with Benny, Bowden, and King, the possibilities are endless. Defenses would have to respect the potential for anything instead of zeroing in on the RB who's going run dive up the middle or power to either side.

Bowden, Benny, and King are returning next year, so I think the staff needs to consider utilizing those guys in the multiple run option and run pass option.

Teams have to respect Benny first, and would have to commit to him. That leaves opportunity for Bowden and King on the ground and Conrad, in the pass option.

Go old school flexbone with the "wildcat" package. Bowden at QB, Benny behind him, and King split out as a wing back. You can run basically an entire offense out of that simple formation. Bowden can pass, he can keep, he can give it to Benny on a dive, King on a veer option.

I don't necessarily like it, but I think Stoops would because of the p/r ratio...

 

[gamecockcat]

I'm a fan of the multiple run option/rpo offense, especially with the current players we have.

We had the personnel to do it with a SJ, Boom, and Benny last year, and this year with the emergence of Bowden.

Our OL isn't really good enough to give the QB time in a more traditional balanced attack, but they have been good enough in run blocking.

With that said, I realize you can't just willy nilly install a new offense like that. However, I think there was some opportunity to run some kind of option out of the Wildcat.

I think it's silly to split SJ out wide in the WC when he is a perfect WC/multiple run option/rpo QB. Would also agree that our WC is too predictable because Benny and King run, and Bowden will come in to pass.

Line up SJ in the wildcat with Benny, Bowden, and King, the possibilities are endless. Defenses would have to respect the potential for anything instead of zeroing in on the RB who's going run dive up the middle or power to either side.

Bowden, Benny, and King are returning next year, so I think the staff needs to consider utilizing those guys in the multiple run option and run pass option.

Teams have to respect Benny first, and would have to commit to him. That leaves opportunity for Bowden and King on the ground and Conrad, in the pass option.

Go old school flexbone with the "wildcat" package. Bowden at QB, Benny behind him, and King split out as a wing back. You can run basically an entire offense out of that simple formation. Bowden can pass, he can keep, he can give it to Benny on a dive, King on a veer option.

Love it!! That's what I was trying to get at - Bowden at QB for a limited package, but multiple options from that basic package. Think it would be very difficult to prepare for and would make our short yardage situations almost automatic if we execute decently. What we've got now is so predictable and gets stuffed way too many times for my taste. Think you've got the right idea with the flexbone or some variation thereof.

 

[Jeff Sykes]

Need to shelve it unless it is short yardage or goal line

 

[fuzz77]

Retire the wildcat. Use run-pass option more. Why does Johnson not run more?

Perhaps because he has an injured shoulder...

 

[KY1WING]

The Wildcat package itself is not the limiting factor-it's how it is being used is. If you think what you see on Saturday's is all it can do then you are sadly mistaken.

Plus, I've seen 11-12 year old Pop Warner teams use the package more completely, creatively, deceptively and effectively than it is being used here. So it's not the package.

But like any offense it's what your personnel can execute, what you can teach and what you feel confident in running in the situation. What we see on Saturday is a result of those limitations whatever they are, not the package.

As far as predictablity, I'm waiting for the coach who has the nads to put 10 in the box and drop one deep the next time we line up with Snell in WC and SJ as a wideout and blow the whole thing up. All those wide receivers will have no one to block so the D has incredible advantage and we sure can't/won't get the ball to them to counteract.

On our side I'm waiting to line up in the WC with both Snell and SJ side by side in the backfield, where the center can snap to either. That brings one defender back into the box but it brings the pass threat in plus another run option.

Before the snap both drop low into a two point stance, snap is low (knee high) so the defense has trouble seeing who is getting the snap. Run Snell up the middle every time (sometimes with the ball, sometimes not run same way either way), roll SJ behind Snell every time (sometimes with ball for RPO, sometimes without the ball but carry out fake anyway). Every play looks the same deep into it. See how the D likes that.

See what kind of problems that causes for the D because now they have to defend the middle, outside and pass, where now it's just middle as we currently use it.

 

[WildCard]

I hear what you're saying but, and I'm not being argumentative, isn't an RPO an 'option' play in much the same way as a true triple option is? Read the dive play and either pass or QB takes off. While there isn't a 3rd option to pitch to, we certainly run enough jet sweeps to bring another potential ballcarrier into the picture. I'm absolutely not saying run the triple option full time - no way. But, instead of the vanilla WC, why not a more varied triple option package of a handful of plays? Surely it couldn't be that much more difficult to learn than the WC and it would have to be harder to stop than a direct snap, up the middle play. If there is something I'm missing that's more technical, please inform me as I truly don't know how the blocking schemes would have to change but I'm only guessing that it's not much different than an RPO play.

Thanks.

The base triple option is a run all the way play. The QB either gives to the dive back or keeps himself or pitches. It takes time to learn the reads and ball handling.

The RPO is really a clever option variation of a play action pass; you simply "add" the option of actually giving the ball rather than simply faking the handoff. The key to the RPO is the OLs basically run block and the QB must make a very quick read and get the ball out very quickly. Otherwise it may well be "illegal downfield". BUT the defense reads the blocking as a run play and reacts accordingly.

The play concept takes advantage of the fact, in college ball, OLs are allowed to go 3 yards downfield before being illegal. By and large, refs are "reluctant" to make the call unless the OL is 5 yards or so downfield. In the NFL the rule is 1 yard beyond the LOS. FWIW, it would not surprise me to see the college rule tightened up.

There are basically 2 ways to run the play, both from a shotgun set with an offset RB.

In the first approach you put 2 or 3 WR on the RB side of the formation. You run the basic backside read so if the QB keeps he is running toward the WRs, one of which does nothing more than a very short hitch. The QB has the option to keep it if the DE has crashed down or sealed off by the OT or throw to the hitch receiver (this is essentially a bubble screen throw to the opposite side of the RB flow).

The other way takes advantage of the defense reading run. Lets say same set with twins on the RB side. We block it like a give to the RB, maybe even pulling a backside OL. That action, especially a backside pull should move the LBs at least a few steps to that side and open up the short slant to the #2 WR on the backside. Furthermore, it basically keeps all of the OLs blocking down or along the LOS minimizing the illegal downfield possibility. If nobody moves with the handoff action you give it up since that is really the play you are really blocking. Again, very quick read/release by QB. You could also create a defensive move with JET motion. This way is not really a QB run option; it is give or throw. If he keeps it is a scramble more than a designed run.

Regarding UK's use of the Wildcat set...

This is stuff (i.e., RPO, basic zone read stuff, etc.) that you can teach your QB to do but, IMHO, it is asking A LOT of a full time RB who moves to QB in the Wildcat set. The Cats could probably do some "QB stuff" with Bowden in the Wildcat, not so much Snell. FWIW, I think most guys on any team that step into Wildcat roles are "keep first" guys.

Some say UK uses the Wildcat too much. IDK. But UK average only 66 snaps/game. Has anyone ever counted up how many are Wildcat snaps?

Peace

 

[Blue Decade]

Why not line him up under center and run more of a triple option? I remember the way Nebraska ran it with Tommy Frazier, dive to the FB, come down the line and either keep, pitch or step back 2 steps and throw. I would think the blocking would be somewhat similar to an RPO.

Triple option uses blockers in a 4 point stance and totally different technique. Fundamentals and personnel needs are different. Eddie Gran is not a triple option coordinator. Our roster has been recruited for our current system. A switch to triple option would mean re-recruiting the offense. Tommie Frazier graduated in 1996 and went undrafted. The game of football has changed a ton in the last 2 decades. There is a reason why no SEC team runs triple option. And I know people don't believe this, but Lynn Bowden is not physically built for that kind of punishment. Bowden is skilled, but not powerful. His role as a slot receiver and kick returner is the right role for him.

 

[Comebakatz3]

I think if we used Bowden out of the wildcat or every time we used the wildcat then we will be a bigger threat. That doesn't mean that he has to take the snap. We can have Snell take the snap and we can put Bowden in motion as the sweep. Then we always have the threat of the throw because he can get the sweep and take it to the house or throw it if the defense over plays the sweep. Run it towards Johnson's side and you also have the sweep and a possible pitch back to Johnson for a pass. Do this and it becomes less predicatble and the defense has to respect Bowden every time.

 

[gamecockcat]

Thanks Blue and WildCard. I understand the differences better.

 

[Blue Decade]

I think if we used Bowden out of the wildcat or every time we used the wildcat then we will be a bigger threat. That doesn't mean that he has to take the snap. We can have Snell take the snap and we can put Bowden in motion as the sweep. Then we always have the threat of the throw because he can get the sweep and take it to the house or throw it if the defense over plays the sweep. Run it towards Johnson's side and you also have the sweep and a possible pitch back to Johnson for a pass. Do this and it becomes less predicatble and the defense has to respect Bowden every time.

So far, and as some of us predicted in September, Bowden is been far less effective than Benny in the wildcat because Bowden is not nearly as powerful as Benny. If we are going to pass, that should be done by our quarterback from a spread formation. The wildcat is a running formation, not a pass formation. You can sneak 1 receiver into a route out of the wildcat, and that might work on rare occasions as a trick play. But it killed us against Georgia last week. If you want to pass, you spread the field and get 4-5 receivers into well designed routes, then ask your quarterback to read coverages and make throws.

 

[WildCard]

Thanks Blue and WildCard. I understand the differences better.

You are welcome. And just to be clear, I researched much of my earlier post. Quite frankly. I understand the RPO a lot better now!

HERE is a good video showing the basic approach to the play. Video starts at about 25 second mark.

I think "RPO" is this year's sexy buzz word with the talking heads. I think they use the term RPO on a lot of plays that are really more what we have called "play action pass" for years.

Peace

 

[Comebakatz3]

So far, and as some of us predicted in September, Bowden is been far less effective than Benny in the wildcat because Bowden is not nearly as powerful as Benny. If we are going to pass, that should be done by our quarterback from a spread formation. The wildcat is a running formation, not a pass formation. You can sneak 1 receiver into a route out of the wildcat, and that might work on rare occasions as a trick play. But it killed us against Georgia last week. If you want to pass, you spread the field and get 4-5 receivers into well designed routes, then ask your quarterback to read coverages and make throws.

Oh I agree. I just think you could almost always have Bowden in the formation in some way. Instead of running Johnson on the sweep or someone else just run Bowden on the sweep. At that point you always have the threat of the sweep and of throwing even if you rarely use them. I'd also be fine with just scraping the wildcat pretty much entirely, but if we're going to use it we might as well have other actual threats with the play.