ADVERTISEMENT

I just rewatched the UT game highlights

This is true. Isn't it amazing how quickly Wheeler is criticized but not a word can be said about Wallace? The group think here is this: Wallace is great. Wheeler is awful. Slam Wheeler and get cheers. Say one word about Wallace and you're a loon.

But here, let me say both good and bad about Wallace...

I applaud him for playing in that game with his obvious pain. I was hurting watching him try to move around.

But, the negative. He was terrible initiating the offense. He turned it over, yes a couple lame calls there, but he struggled running the offense so badly that Cal put Thiero at the point. What more needs to be said? And Thiero was better than Wallace, although he struggled as well.

But folks can't even admit that Wheeler certainly would have done better at initiating the offense. Can't say it. I have to laugh. If you say the name Wheeler, your next word must be "sucks" or "benched" or "not even UK caliber." These are the accepted talking points. Don't break the norm! It doesn't matter what the numbers say if your eyes tell you he sucks.

Here's the reason we think Wheeler sucks. I had an epiphany of sorts earlier while replying to someone. Wheeler's biggest problem is that when he is forced to step up and try to force plays, force shots, or do something to save the team, it means the team is losing. So, when Wheeler is the 2nd leading scorer behind Oscar, as he was against St Peter's, it means the supporting cast is sucking horribly. Wheeler doesn't play terribly until the rest of the guys are playing terribly and he thinks he has to try to win by himself. And he usually finishes what they started, while trying to do too much, he blows it. He turns it over. He takes bad shots.

It's the same thing when Wheeler ENDS UP with the ball at the end of shot clocks. Why has that happen SOOO much this season? Because all season the entire team has refused to make a play, to take a shot, or to take the chance at failing. They've deferred to Wheeler again and again, so who takes the shot? Wheeler. Who gets blamed for the bad play? Wheeler. He's holding the ball at the end of every loss. That's how it works.

But what did we see against Tennessee? (It actually started in the 2nd half of SC but the Gamecocks kept making shots out their butts and it was too little too late.) Something changed with Fredrick and Reeves. They were hunting shots. They were aggressively cutting and going around screens. They and others were taking the ball at Tennessee and forcing them to foul. They were taking contact and going through it. And then they made free throws. They stopped fading away, shying from contact, backing off, and deferring. That is what I saw.

So, my bottom line: I think Wheeler can play and win when he's not trying to do what he doesn't do well. He doesn't need to look to score. He doesn't need to try to force plays that aren't there. He needs to initiate the offense, drive the ball, and make good passes to open guys. When he plays to his strengths, he is very good. When he plays outside his strengths, we lose.
Tennessee is the #1 rated defensive team for a reason. They came out and guarded him just in reputation alone. They knew he could beat them if given space, so they took him out.

If Wheeler was at point, they would have sagged and helped off and nobody would have been open.

These are the points everyone is trying to make.

Wheeler's in, we lose at home to a team ranked in the 200's, Wheeler is out and we go on the road and beat a top 5 team.

That’s not even talking bout the dysfunctional offense + turnovers + missed free throws + the turmoil issue that he was obviously involved in.

If he plays 30+ minutes tonight, we either lose, or it's a much tighter game than it should be.

You can play Wheeler at point, but you can't do it if you're going to slow the game down and try to beat good teams with a half court offense.
 
Wallace is not a lottery pick pro based on performance, maybe on potential
Both. He can score at all three levels, he can rebound, he can defend and he has literally rejected multiple layup attempts at the rim.

He has size and length as well as athletesism.

Remember the duke game last year when their point guard bullied Wheeler all game long? That ain't happening to Wallace.

Here's the other thing, if you take something away from Wallace, he’s good enough to beat you in other ways and that’s not even talking about the simple fact that defenses have to come out and guard Wallace.

Lets do this. Who in this lineup, should sit so Wheeler can play?

Oscar
Toppin/Livingston
Reeves
CJ
Wallace

Who should sit? Who is Wheeler better than?

Who are the two best players on this team? Say it with me: Oscar and Wallace. So, why the hell would you not have the ball in their hands most of the time?

You say Wallace only has potential (BS), but there's a very good reason why Wheeler won't even play in the D-League.

This ain't hard to understand. Plus, you obviously have never had back spasms. I couldn't even stand up or drive a car when I had them. I had to pull over and go lay in the grass for 20 minutes until the pain subsided. A healthy Wallace would have looked much different on Saturday.
 
For what it's worth, and it's worth nothing here. Wheeler's assist to turnover ratio is 2nd only to Tyler Ulis in UK HISTORY. His assists per game are 2nd only to Ulis, also. He clearly does something well. I posted why I think Wheeler gets such a raw deal in another thread. I doubt anyone will read it.

I'll try to sum it up. When Wheeler plays poorly, it's because the team is losing. When his supporting cast plays well, he plays well. When they aren't making shots or plays, he feels he must carry the offense too. So, he forces things and takes bad shots.

Here's the truth: Wheeler is one of the only guys on the team who can create his own shot. So, when all else fails, Wheeler has to create something, and it's often not a good look. So, when we lose, the guy with the ball in his hands is Wheeler. He gets blamed. If others had made a play, he wouldn't be trying to force something. But he ends up taking the heat because he has the ball in his hands.

And most people don't think or see everything else that failed before Wheeler failed. They just see the team losing and Wheeler holding the ball. That's it. When the team does well and is winning, Wheeler isn't holding the ball or making the play. He doesn't have to. Others made the play, he often got the assist, but people see the guy who made the play. They don't see Wheeler when we're winning. But when we're losing, you always see Wheeler because he's feeling he must win the game and make every play since the others are playing terribly. So, almost every time Wheeler is in the limelight, the team is losing. And usually, if the rest of the team is sucking, Wheeler has no chance to carry them to a victory. So, Wheeler's a loser with most. They only associate him with losing. That's why so many see him as they do, despite what the numbers say.
Wow. Another way to interpret your WOT is that Wheeler's shortcomings are his teammates' fault. LOL The way people bend themselves into pretzels to excuse this guy. W/L should be the metric, not assists. We just beat a top 5 team without him. Speaks volumes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cowtown Cat
Tennessee is the #1 rated defensive team for a reason. They came out and guarded him just in reputation alone. They knew he could beat them if given space, so they took him out.

If Wheeler was at point, they would have sagged and helped off and nobody would have been open.

These are the points everyone is trying to make.

Wheeler's in, we lose at home to a team ranked in the 200's, Wheeler is out and we go on the road and beat a top 5 team.

That’s not even talking bout the dysfunctional offense + turnovers + missed free throws + the turmoil issue that he was obviously involved in.

If he plays 30+ minutes tonight, we either lose, or it's a much tighter game than it should be.

You can play Wheeler at point, but you can't do it if you're going to slow the game down and try to beat good teams with a half court offense.

Wow. Another way to interpret your WOT is that Wheeler's shortcomings are his teammates' fault. LOL The way people bend themselves into pretzels to excuse this guy. W/L should be the metric, not assists. We just beat a top 5 team without him. Speaks volumes.
I hear you guys. I agree Wheeler should play less. I just think it's ridiculous to say he should be benched and never see the floor. There are multiple posters here who have that opinion and have stated it. They'd be fine if they kicked him off the team. THAT is why I have reacted.

And it should be noted, Wheeler is shooting 38.5% from 3 this season. He is making teams pay for sagging. I'm not saying I think Wheeler should even be the starter, per se. I definitely don't think he should be averaging 32.4 minutes per game, which is what he's averaged this season. He should definitely be under 30 minutes. I still think he should be more than 20, though. But I do agree I'd like to see more of Wallace, Fredrick, Reeves, Toppin/Livingston, and Oscar. I think that's our best lineup. I hate it that Wallace is having these back issues. I hope he can be at or close to 100% for tonight, but he looked awful against UT. Moved like an old man out there, which is why Cal put Thiero at point.

I know about the spacing and the sagging, but I think you guys are emphasizing that too much and it can be overcome. I believe you MUST put at least 2 other shooters out there with Wheeler for the lineup to be effective. And Livingston at the 3 is not the answer. I wish Cal would let him play the 4 when Toppin disappears, which happens in nearly every game. You might play Livingston at the 3 when Wallace is running point, but not when Wheeler is. There are solutions aside from benching your assist leader.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBNWildcat
Tennessee is the #1 rated defensive team for a reason. They came out and guarded him just in reputation alone. They knew he could beat them if given space, so they took him out.

If Wheeler was at point, they would have sagged and helped off and nobody would have been open.

These are the points everyone is trying to make.

Wheeler's in, we lose at home to a team ranked in the 200's, Wheeler is out and we go on the road and beat a top 5 team.

That’s not even talking bout the dysfunctional offense + turnovers + missed free throws + the turmoil issue that he was obviously involved in.

If he plays 30+ minutes tonight, we either lose, or it's a much tighter game than it should be.

You can play Wheeler at point, but you can't do it if you're going to slow the game down and try to beat good teams with a half court offense.
The Cats lost to SC because the Cocks were unconscious from 3.

Had nothing to do with Wheeler
 
4. Plavsic and Vescovi are absolute dirty chumps. I still remember last season in the SECT when Vescovi grabbed Oscar's forearm and pulled him down in a flop move and got the foul call on Oscar, which iced the game for UT. The stupid refs fell for it just like they fall for all of UT's dirty crap during every game. And Plavsic not letting go of Oscar at the very end even after the whistle is just bush league garbage, he should have gotten at LEAST a delay of game or a technical for that, he was trying to instigate.



-Plavsic is a goon. He threw down Oscar after a FT and it wasn't even called.
Plavsic in action:




By the way, that was a no call.
 
I hear you guys. I agree Wheeler should play less. I just think it's ridiculous to say he should be benched and never see the floor. There are multiple posters here who have that opinion and have stated it. They'd be fine if they kicked him off the team. THAT is why I have reacted.

And it should be noted, Wheeler is shooting 38.5% from 3 this season. He is making teams pay for sagging. I'm not saying I think Wheeler should even be the starter, per se. I definitely don't think he should be averaging 32.4 minutes per game, which is what he's averaged this season. He should definitely be under 30 minutes. I still think he should be more than 20, though. But I do agree I'd like to see more of Wallace, Fredrick, Reeves, Toppin/Livingston, and Oscar. I think that's our best lineup. I hate it that Wallace is having these back issues. I hope he can be at or close to 100% for tonight, but he looked awful against UT. Moved like an old man out there, which is why Cal put Thiero at point.

I know about the spacing and the sagging, but I think you guys are emphasizing that too much and it can be overcome. I believe you MUST put at least 2 other shooters out there with Wheeler for the lineup to be effective. And Livingston at the 3 is not the answer. I wish Cal would let him play the 4 when Toppin disappears, which happens in nearly every game. You might play Livingston at the 3 when Wallace is running point, but not when Wheeler is. There are solutions aside from benching your assist leader.
Nah, I'm definitely not saying Wheeler should be glued to the bench, he should get 15 or so minutes, but he should not be playing 30+ and taking the most shots
 
We would have blown UT out if Wheeler would have played. People conveniently forget that Wheeler had the offense humming last year as we were the team to beat and vying for a one seed until he got hurt. UK had something like 19 TO's due to several players playing the point guard position in Wheeler's absence. Wheeler is only averaging 2 TO's a game, unlike the huge number some on here would like for him to average to advance their agenda. He is also averaging 39% from three.
 
We would have blown UT out if Wheeler would have played. People conveniently forget that Wheeler had the offense humming last year as we were the team to beat and vying for a one seed until he got hurt. UK had something like 19 TO's due to several players playing the point guard position in Wheeler's absence. Wheeler is only averaging 2 TO's a game, unlike the huge number some on here would like for him to average to advance their agenda. He is also averaging 39% from three.
What’s his overall % from the field? Foul shots?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cowtown Cat
SeasonPlayerMinutesFG%3PT%FT%AssistsA / MinTOTO / MINA/TOPPG
09-10Wall128846.12%32.46%
75.43%​
2410.1871490.1161.6216.65
10-11Knight136342.30%37.66%
79.53%​
1590.1171200.0881.3317.29
11-12Teague130341.19%32.50%
71.43%​
1910.1471090.0841.7510.03
12-13Harrow78741.35%29.58%
70.77%​
820.104480.0611.719.90
12-13Goodwin104843.98%26.56%
63.68%​
880.0841010.0960.8714.12
13-14Harrison126736.67%35.11%
76.44%​
1590.1261090.0861.4610.85
14-15Harrison99437.83%38.30%
79.25%​
1390.140640.0642.179.33
14-15Ulis88240.61%42.86%
80.77%​
1350.153380.0433.555.65
15-16Ulis128743.44%34.38%
85.64%​
2460.191690.0543.5717.31
16-17Fox106447.77%24.64%
73.93%​
1650.155870.0821.9016.69
17-18Gilg-Alex124848.54%40.35%
81.71%​
1890.151990.0791.9114.38
17-18Green86945.14%37.61%
80.77%​
910.105550.0631.659.26
18-19Green16044.90%42.31%
89.47%​
210.131210.1311.008.00
18-19Hagans105446.73%27.45%
76.09%​
1600.152940.0891.707.68
19-20Hagans99640.38%25.81%
80.99%​
1910.1921030.1031.8511.50
19-20Maxey106842.74%29.20%
83.33%​
980.092670.0631.4613.97
20-21Askew72234.51%27.78%
80.65%​
730.101500.0691.466.52
20-21Mintz76939.67%38.10%
65.57%​
770.100470.0611.6411.52
21-22Mintz76838.22%34.38%
70.15%​
550.072310.0401.778.48
21-22Wheeler93744.12%30.77%
77.97%​
2070.221910.0972.2710.07
21-22Washington90645.10%34.95%
75.00%​
1200.133510.0562.3512.52
22-23Wheeler48341.48%38.46%
53.33%​
950.197330.0682.889.53
22-23Wallace51846.05%41.33%
57.69%​
650.126300.0582.1710.94

John Wall was helluva player, obviously, and played with far more talent than most here (especially Wheeler), but ... you have to be honest about it ... he was very turnover-prone, if you want to talk turnovers. Wheeler's TO-rate has been much-improved since coming to Kentucky. fwiw ...

Did we just have a John Wall and Sahvir Wheeler comparison?! Lmao John Wall could take the ball to the rack and score at will. Was incredible around the rim. He was also 6-4 and could guard.
 
Some observations:

1. UT needs to spend a week on layup practice

2. The refs are absolutely corrupt. That jump ball call against Wallace with :50 to go was horseshyyte, he was fouled 5 times. Lots of other bad calls already mentioned here as well, and all the grabbing, the bullcrap F1 against Reeves, the refs were clearly trying to give them a police escort to a win but they just couldn't hit their layups (LOL)

3. Reeves is a real veteran go-to. If he's not playing 30 mins a game Cal should be fired

4. Plavsic and Vescovi are absolute dirty chumps. I still remember last season in the SECT when Vescovi grabbed Oscar's forearm and pulled him down in a flop move and got the foul call on Oscar, which iced the game for UT. The stupid refs fell for it just like they fall for all of UT's dirty crap during every game. And Plavsic not letting go of Oscar at the very end even after the whistle is just bush league garbage, he should have gotten at LEAST a delay of game or a technical for that, he was trying to instigate.

5. I saw UT's guys grabbing our guys all over the floor, and our guys with their palms facing up while guarding, you could see how obvious it was the one sided way the refs were calling it. It's amazing we even won the game, UT must have all had hangovers the night before because they couldn't make a layup to save their lives, no matter how hard the refs tried to help them.

6. Wheeler is irrelevant to the success of this team. Play him more than a sub rotation and we lose. CJ is coming around finally. Toppin is a rollercoaster, one game he's hot, the next game he's not.

7. Cal absolutely needs to take away the middle and right block against Plavsic in the next game. He's literally feasting in those spots.
Cal not doubling down on the post is what won UK the game. It allowed us to stay out on the perimeter and guard the three which is the main reason UT was 3 for 21 on three point shots. Plavsic getting 19 points was a drop in the bucket as opposed to allowing them to shoot wide open threes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cathouse
ADVERTISEMENT