Considering his UK background, having played here, and with his coaching pedigree under Bear Bryant and as a NFL head coach, AND having coached a national championship team at Miami, why did UK pass on him over the years? I attended the last game he ever coached, which was basically his going away party at the FAU stadium and football program he was responsible for the creation of. There were no more than a few thousand people there for that game. It was embarrassing, really. What is "the rest of the story?"
Howard Schnellenberger as UK Coach???
- Thread starter 77blueuk
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People at UK at the time with the fuzzy balls didn't want a headstrong individual running football. Didn't want to appear uppity and all don't you know. Another sad chapter in the long history of stupidity that was UK football.
I guess the prime time to have hired him was after Curci, but I don't know if we reached out to him or not. That was coinciding with his Kosar-led championship team at the U. Loved Claiborne but would have loved for Howard to have coached here for about 15 years.
This topic has been brought up numerous times and it hurts each time. This one is due to the basketball influence. Cliff Hagan didnt want Howard running the show , as Howard wanted total control over football operations. We would have been a top level team long ago had Howard been hired.
This was a terrible blunder on UK's part and we have paid for it for many years. Damn shame they didnt hire him instead of Mumme. He had many good years left at that time.
This was a terrible blunder on UK's part and we have paid for it for many years. Damn shame they didnt hire him instead of Mumme. He had many good years left at that time.
As someone said, this has been brought up many times on this board. Most people have said that UK should have hired Howard instead of Claiborne or Curry but I don't think they could have gotten him either time because he was firmly in place at Miami and U of L when UK made those hires. The timing just didn't work out.
I don't know what happened in 1973 when UK hired Curci . Was Schnellenberger a candidate?
And, I do think that Howard, in hindsight, would have been a great hire in 1997 when UK hired Mumme. But, at the time, Howard was out of coaching just coming off his one year debacle tenure at Oklahoma in 1995. I don't think it would have been seen as a good hire at the time.
I don't know what happened in 1973 when UK hired Curci . Was Schnellenberger a candidate?
And, I do think that Howard, in hindsight, would have been a great hire in 1997 when UK hired Mumme. But, at the time, Howard was out of coaching just coming off his one year debacle tenure at Oklahoma in 1995. I don't think it would have been seen as a good hire at the time.
I think UK could have gotten Schnellenberger at some point in his early career and I think we suffered because UK had no interest. I will never understand that because he was a program changer. He was a UK alum and a brilliant football mind.
Cliff-/-Howard = water and oil. Howard wanted complete control of CATS football program!
I once heard C.M. say that as long as he had any say in UK athletics, Howard would never coach at UK... And we allow his name to remain on the stadium...
Yes,the complete control thing was an issue + Howard was rumored to be more of a skirt chaser than they were willing to chance at the time.Claiborne was a safer choice.
If he had been hired here when he wanted the job pre Curry, well I believe we would be looking at a totally different program! Will never know what if?
David Cutcliffe (who wanted the job) should have been hired instead of Dumme.
It's been a long time ago but I seem to recall that he was interviewed for the Curci vacancy, but there were some mumblings about recruiting irregularities that may or may not have been founded - may have just been a smoke screen. At any rate I agree with what many have expressed above, there was a golden opportunity there that for whatever reason didn't materialize and we've been living in football hell for the most part, ever since, until the current staff arrived.
Don't get me started on this...absolutely pathetic by Cliff Hagan and CM (get his name off the wall) Newton!!!
Wrong HS wanted the job and actually accepted it on a handshake with Hagan, but then refused after Hagan told him he could not have total control over the program...He and Newton both idiots!
Exactly why his name needs to come off and I don't give a damn whose feelings are hurt!!!!
I hope before I die C M Newton's name comes down. Why do we as a University make such stupid decisions.
I remember talking to a fan at a football game once and he said CM was honored because he hired Pitino. Give me a break. You honor C M in football because he hired a basketball coach.
Hey Slugger, I knew you would show up when I saw the title of the thread..You never fail to disappoint. LOL Call me sometime.
Not trying to persuade others to think otherwise, and certainly not trying to pour gasoline on the "get C.M.'s name off of the stadium" fire. But I think there is a tradition/process in how UK honors retiring AD's. My understanding of the tradition is to name a facility, or a part of one, after them. My understanding is also that the naming is attached to a facility that was constructed (or improved, etc.) under their tenure.
Current baseball stadium is named after C. Hagan. Swimming facility attached to Memorial is named after H. Lancaster, Even recently retired Senior Assoc. AD John Cropp had softball stadium named after him. My guess is that the new baseball stadium will have Mitch's name on it someday. I also guess L. Ivey wasn't AD long enough to warrant such an "honoring".
The first major renovation to Commonwealth happened on C.M.'s watch. I don't know this for sure, but again am guessing that the renovation was the only (or only one of great enough significance to befit honoring an AD ??) facility upgrade that happened during his time.
I understand the angst, and certainly the irony (LOL!), of C.M.'s name as a part of Commonwealth. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that the naming/honoring is for C.M.'s contribution to the athletics dept. as a whole in general. I don't think it's intended to imply that he did great things regarding the football program.
Current baseball stadium is named after C. Hagan. Swimming facility attached to Memorial is named after H. Lancaster, Even recently retired Senior Assoc. AD John Cropp had softball stadium named after him. My guess is that the new baseball stadium will have Mitch's name on it someday. I also guess L. Ivey wasn't AD long enough to warrant such an "honoring".
The first major renovation to Commonwealth happened on C.M.'s watch. I don't know this for sure, but again am guessing that the renovation was the only (or only one of great enough significance to befit honoring an AD ??) facility upgrade that happened during his time.
I understand the angst, and certainly the irony (LOL!), of C.M.'s name as a part of Commonwealth. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that the naming/honoring is for C.M.'s contribution to the athletics dept. as a whole in general. I don't think it's intended to imply that he did great things regarding the football program.
I have no knowledge about the "handshake deal". But I met Schnellenberger on several occasions and am friends with the man who hired him and I can say with absolute confidence anything less 100% control of the football program would have been a deal breaker.
Peace
I think he was honored due to a significant round of facility upgrades that occurred in the Mumme era. I give him credit for that, but not much else. Opposing programs have used the fact that we named the football field after a basketball player against us for years.
Surely there's a restroom somewhere on campus that we can put Newton's name on to honor him instead of our stadium......
Or at least a portapotty.
I recall this much the same way. Claiborne had a squeaky clean image and UK was coming off a time of off the field stuff with some of Curci's players as well as probation. In other words, Claiborne was brought in to "clean up the mess." There were rumors re HS but I always thought it was Hagan's BS.
Claiborne was a great man and coach. Most forget he built Va Tech and Maryland(yes, they became a top program) from the ground up. Still holds the UK career record for INTs. And a Hall of Famer to boot. That his name isn't on CWS is a total disgrace.
This man, Jerry Claiborne is who the stadium's "field" should be named after. He loved the university as much as any coach we have ever had in football. Pure class to boot.
CM was a disaster for football,and ought to refund all the money he pocketed personally under the Curry regime!
Cliff Hagan and Howard were classmates and knew each other well and got along great. After Curci Cliff first turned to Howard and begged him to "come home". Howard was all in as was Pres Singletary however Howard wanted to run the football program. Pres Singletary said they were inches from the death penalty and they had promised the NCAA major oversight. Howard then passed on the job. Had he come UK would have been the first pro style passing team in the SEC. Great qbs for sure
He scared the bean counters to death. A real cowboy among the tenderfoots will do that.
Two words, Cliff Hagan and CM Newton, both basketball players. Neither of the two contributed anything toward a successful FB Program.
He was honored because he set up his successor in the ad job.
You're damn right it wasn't on merit for fb...Curry, Mumme and the scheduling of the Otis series. All stupid moves. Get his name off the field!
People don't realize that Howard and Cliff had handshake agreement. It was nixed by Cliff being a little gun shy when it came to full control. Singletary was a bit concerned about the off field antics that hit UK FB during Curci's tenure. They could not sign off. Claiborne should have been hired in 64 or the John Ray year, Howard should have been hired in 82.
-Howard was OC for Miami Dolphins undefeated team in 73 so could have been in running then.
-UK threw UK FB under bus during the investigation. They saved BB but lumped UK FB to fall on sword for UK BB. UK BB was being looked at by the Kent Benson stuff, rumors that UK set up bank accounts that the NCAA is still rumored to be watching set up by UK Boosters. I mean there were a lot of stuff about UK BB, free meals in Lexington, money, etc.. A lot more smoke on BB than FB.
- There were some stuff about players working at horse farms by both FB and BB and getting paid.
-Fact is the blue hairs and admin were embarrassed by the antics of some of the FB off field stuff.
A lot more was going on in BB then FB but FB took the electric chair for BB.
Think Howard asked for a lot of things, was told by people that the BB program was getting pass, wanted FB dorms, wanted Ron Steiner to be his PR guy, have his own team of sorts.
I have heard that Howard questioned the seriousness of Cliff and Singletary at meeting, he had heard that UK FB had fallen on sword. Howard wanted equal access and Jerry was native son who was willing to restore UK to an honorable path with no questions asked. Pretty easy for Cliff, Jerry will keep FB clean and out of sight.
Reason Larry Ivy named field for CM was he was hoping this would add some cache and CM going to bat for him would save his job. Problem was that CM was head deep in the Mumme scandal and totally turned blind eye to Guy Morris, Mike Leach, Tony Franklin. He flat out ignored and did not want to hear. CM was told Bassett was running amuck and that Hal, Mike Majors, and Claude controlled all of it. CM simply ignored.
It should be Claiborne field.
IMO
-Howard was OC for Miami Dolphins undefeated team in 73 so could have been in running then.
-UK threw UK FB under bus during the investigation. They saved BB but lumped UK FB to fall on sword for UK BB. UK BB was being looked at by the Kent Benson stuff, rumors that UK set up bank accounts that the NCAA is still rumored to be watching set up by UK Boosters. I mean there were a lot of stuff about UK BB, free meals in Lexington, money, etc.. A lot more smoke on BB than FB.
- There were some stuff about players working at horse farms by both FB and BB and getting paid.
-Fact is the blue hairs and admin were embarrassed by the antics of some of the FB off field stuff.
A lot more was going on in BB then FB but FB took the electric chair for BB.
Think Howard asked for a lot of things, was told by people that the BB program was getting pass, wanted FB dorms, wanted Ron Steiner to be his PR guy, have his own team of sorts.
I have heard that Howard questioned the seriousness of Cliff and Singletary at meeting, he had heard that UK FB had fallen on sword. Howard wanted equal access and Jerry was native son who was willing to restore UK to an honorable path with no questions asked. Pretty easy for Cliff, Jerry will keep FB clean and out of sight.
Reason Larry Ivy named field for CM was he was hoping this would add some cache and CM going to bat for him would save his job. Problem was that CM was head deep in the Mumme scandal and totally turned blind eye to Guy Morris, Mike Leach, Tony Franklin. He flat out ignored and did not want to hear. CM was told Bassett was running amuck and that Hal, Mike Majors, and Claude controlled all of it. CM simply ignored.
It should be Claiborne field.
IMO
One other thing about this. A lot of the bitterness of Fran was that UK FB was being singled out, BB players problems being kept out of headlines, UK makes a deal with NCAA, NCAA says we have the goods on you, we have this and this on BB for years. The rumors of Curci in Ohio, Still/Ramsey, all were being looked at. Lee Corso, Bo Schembechler and Earl Bruce were very talkative to NCAA investigators, Lee Corso went to NCAA on Rod Stewart recruitment and a couple more, Bruce on the big kid from Moeller High OG, top OL in country, Bo and Joe Paterno with Camden deal with Still Ramsey and big DT named Bubba who was top talent.
NCAA investigators had the hots for Curci and were looking to appease BO, Lee, Joe Pa. UK made deal to look at FB and sweep the BB under the table. You will never read this or get confirmation but it happened.
NCAA investigators had the hots for Curci and were looking to appease BO, Lee, Joe Pa. UK made deal to look at FB and sweep the BB under the table. You will never read this or get confirmation but it happened.
A lot of revisionist history regarding the "passing" on Howard as HC in 1982.
I challenge any of you to review the resumes of both Howard and Claiborne at the time of that hire and tell me that it was obvious that Howard was the better choice.
BOTH of them had very successful careers up to that point and Claiborne had been the more successful college head coach over a longer period of time. This was before Howard won a title.
So, if both guys are great and one is desperately wanting to come home to UK and the other is an arrogant ass, who do you think is going to win the job?
The time when Howard should have been hired was in 1989 to replace Claiborne or they should have fired Curry in 1994 and hired him.
I challenge any of you to review the resumes of both Howard and Claiborne at the time of that hire and tell me that it was obvious that Howard was the better choice.
BOTH of them had very successful careers up to that point and Claiborne had been the more successful college head coach over a longer period of time. This was before Howard won a title.
So, if both guys are great and one is desperately wanting to come home to UK and the other is an arrogant ass, who do you think is going to win the job?
The time when Howard should have been hired was in 1989 to replace Claiborne or they should have fired Curry in 1994 and hired him.
No not really. It was a guy who had to struggle and build programs at Va. Tech, Maryland and then hand him the keys to probation riddled program that won o games his first year. Jerry was a wonderful man but he was 5 years past his prime. It showed after the Mark Higgs, Al Baker, Dermonti Dawson, Trinity guys and big time gets his first few years. He was done after the rebuild and never quite could recruit to it.
Howard would have been Steve Spurrier 7-10 years before he hit the SEC. It was Bo and Herschel in the SEC, it was wishbone and veer. Howard was first to really tap into Fla pipeline and also was able to translate into Miami being top 5 program. He would have revolutionized SEC a decade before Spurrier.
Jerry was wonderful man, he brought respect and dignity to FB program. Howard would have made UK relevant in FB. I will debate this forever.
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