How long until the "Barnhart was forced to hire Pope" cries begin?

[B.B.H.]

But….. Mitch wanted Drew. Not Pope. Don’t forget that as Baylor looks like one of Cals teams right now. Boring!!!
Mitch got to meet and interview Pope before we knew him. Once Pope spoke the Fanbase pivoted. We watched his style of play. How could CMP NOT impress you???
Mitch fought alcohol with all his might.
Mitch fought NIL with all his might.
Mitch fights an adult game day experience with all his might.
I’ll take a younger progressive thinker.

You’re absolutely right! And I’ll bet that’s why EVERYONE was clamoring for Pope so hard rather than Hurley, Donovan and Drew because it was so obvious. The fan base begged for Pope to be signed as coach but Barnhart stubbornly rushed to sign Todd Golden and/or Nate Oats to a contract instead. Man, we as fans were absolutely correct and had the foresight to see what was best but that out of touch loser of a wooden moron Barnhart ruined it by signing someone other than Pope, the guy who was at the top of every fan’s wishlist. Man, our irrational hatred of him is completely rooted in reality!

🤡

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Arkansas bailed Mitch out on that one but the fact that the buyout was even that astronomical was business malfeasance.

That was a brilliant way for Mitch to sweet talk Arky into bailing him out. So your answer then is ZERO. There was NO payout.

It is clear that the environment surrounding the program had become too toxic for Cal. Mitch was able to flip the script. He played hardball with Cal and Cal quit. That took guts by MB....not luck and a benevolent Arky.

 

[CRZ4UK]

You’re absolutely right! And I’ll bet that’s why EVERYONE was clamoring for Pope so hard rather than Hurley, Donovan and Drew because it was so obvious. The fan base begged for Pope to be signed as coach but Barnhart stubbornly rushed to sign Todd Golden and/or Nate Oats to a contract instead. Man, we as fans were absolutely correct and had the foresight to see what was best but that out of touch loser of a wooden moron Barnhart ruined it by signing someone other than Pope, the guy who was at the top of every fan’s wishlist. Man, our irrational hatred of him is completely rooted in reality!

🤡

No one was calling for Pope but…. He was turned down by Drew and Hurley. Oats wouldn’t even interview. Donovan said no discussion before his season was over. Golden is involved in a scandal. Do you even pay attention??
He didn’t seek out Stoops. His agent contacted Barnhart and asked to interview. Like Pope, he came in with a plan after he had struck out on all top targets. He did not want to hire Cal either. He was forced by boosters after the BCG disaster.
You didn’t even address alcohol, nil and the worst game day experience in college football.
Not based in reality you say. lol.
I’ll bet you weren’t down in Texas like me watching a real AD work. Six concerts, be I bevo blvd and I was emailed a 30 suggestion list of activities to attend by Texas athletics.
You go ahead and support our awful product.
We will miss out on Sumrall too. Mitch would never fire Stoops or ask him to go so we can latch on to a great up n coming coach. Unless something falls in his lap. We gonna miss out.

 

[B.B.H.]

No one was calling for Pope but…. He was turned down by Drew and Hurley. Oats wouldn’t even interview. Donovan said no discussion before his season was over. Golden is involved in a scandal. Do you even pay attention??
He didn’t seek out Stoops. His agent contacted Barnhart and asked to interview. Like Pope, he came in with a plan after he had struck out on all top targets. He did not want to hire Cal either. He was forced by boosters after the BCG disaster.
You didn’t even address alcohol, nil and the worst game day experience in college football.
Not based in reality you say. lol.
I’ll bet you weren’t down in Texas like me watching a real AD work. Six concerts, be I bevo blvd and I was emailed a 30 suggestion list of activities to attend by Texas athletics.
You go ahead and support our awful product.
We will miss out on Sumrall too. Mitch would never fire Stoops or ask him to go so we can latch on to a great up n coming coach. Unless something falls in his lap. We gonna miss out.

You do an excellent job understanding sarcasm and getting the essential point. Impressive job

 

[Girthang]

That was a brilliant way for Mitch to sweet talk Arky into bailing him out. So your answer then is ZERO. There was NO payout.

It is clear that the environment surrounding the program had become too toxic for Cal. Mitch was able to flip the script. He played hardball with Cal and Cal quit. That took guts by MB....not luck and a benevolent Arky.

I wonder if we will find out one day that we paid Arkansas 3M to hire Cal... Would've been money well spent if we did

 

[BBUK]

To give out/ write the contracts he did to Cow and Stoops is enough....

Kentucky lucked out with Cow due to Cow... yeah, serious issues in the Kentucky leadership Camp. Note: That is the only issues really known at this time by me, may be some more granular information available... Ole Cow would still be here if...

 

[DrH. Lecter]

To give out/ write the contracts he did to Cow and Stoops is enough....

Kentucky lucked out with Cow due to Cow... yeah, serious issues in the Kentucky leadership Camp. Note: That is the only issues really known at this time by me, may be some more granular information available... Ole Cow would still be here if...

It was waaaaaaaay too toxic for him to remain. He was "used car salesman" enough to get out of town with some of his reputation still viable. And Arkansas was desperate enough to fall for a failed Cal. MB didn't fall for his nonsense and it gave them both a win...Cal leaving and MB not paying a buyout.

I had stopped watching us play 3 years ago. I just couldnt stand the death spiral that Cal had gotten us in to. I knew that the Wagner class unicorn was just going to be a first round flame out so (easy for me to say) I was begging to rip off the bandage. Fire Cal and to hell with that class. We'd have been 3+ years ahead in our return to Blue Blood status. I had no idea that Pope would do that for us immediately like he appears to have done. Would MB have hired Pope after 2021....no.

 

[B.B.H.]

It was waaaaaaaay too toxic for him to remain. He was "used car salesman" enough to get out of town with some of his reputation still viable. And Arkansas was desperate enough to fall for a failed Cal. MB didn't fall for his nonsense and it gave them both a win...Cal leaving and MB not paying a buyout.

I had stopped watching us play 3 years ago. I just couldnt stand the death spiral that Cal had gotten us in to. I knew that the Wagner class unicorn was just going to be a first round flame out so (easy for me to say) I was begging to rip off the bandage. Fire Cal and to hell with that class. We'd have been 3+ years ahead in our return to Blue Blood status. I had no idea that Pope would do that for us immediately like he appears to have done. Would MB have hired Pope after 2021....no.

Things happen the way they do for a reason. Couldn’t be happier with Pope

 

[Cobb4uk]

If MB has a downfall it is these asinine contracts for coaches. Cal stayed well beyond what he should’ve and now Stoops is as well. Stoops awas good here but I think he has gone as far as he can. The Pope hire, I’m not sure on how that went down. Was it strictly a MB hire or was he advised? I don’t know. Either way it looks like a great hire for UK. I’m not willing to throw a parade for MB because of his contracts but I do believe he has had some good coaches while he was here. He just needs to be able to get better contracts and fire people quicker than he does.

Question, is it true that MB was urged/ pushed to offer Hurley and Drew knowing they wouldn't come all along. A booster told me this was a fact and Pope was wanted from the beginning. The BBN wouldn't understand not offering experienced coaches, but neither really fit here.

 

[BBUK]

It was waaaaaaaay too toxic for him to remain. He was "used car salesman" enough to get out of town with some of his reputation still viable. And Arkansas was desperate enough to fall for a failed Cal. MB didn't fall for his nonsense and it gave them both a win...Cal leaving and MB not paying a buyout.

I had stopped watching us play 3 years ago. I just couldnt stand the death spiral that Cal had gotten us in to. I knew that the Wagner class unicorn was just going to be a first round flame out so (easy for me to say) I was begging to rip off the bandage. Fire Cal and to hell with that class. We'd have been 3+ years ahead in our return to Blue Blood status. I had no idea that Pope would do that for us immediately like he appears to have done. Would MB have hired Pope after 2021....no.

While I agree some, I do not think Cow thought he was not doing the right things to where he still believed he was either fooling a large part of the fan base or was so self-absorbed he thought the issues were coming from a vocal few.

Cow is/ was living in a dream world. He could not or cannot be embarrassed as he should have been too ashamed to show his face. Embarrassment is a key trait that is nearly missing from society but that's another subject. Glad it was found/ seen the King was naked in this case... In any event...

 

[B.B.H.]

While I agree some, I do not think Cow thought he was not doing the right things to where he still believed he was either fooling a large part of the fan base or was so self-absorbed he thought the issues were coming from a vocal few.

Cow is/ was living in a dream world. He could not or cannot be embarrassed as he should have been too ashamed to show his face. Embarrassment is a key trait that is nearly missing from society but that's another subject. Glad it was found/ seen the King was naked in this case... In any event...

Idk man. I think we might go a little far sometimes on the character assassinations with Cal. Thank God he isn’t here anymore and we have Pope, but I don’t need any extra hate in my heart. Cal brought us a title and he did a lot of things we don’t like but he gone.

 

[Girthang]

Question, is it true that MB was urged/ pushed to offer Hurley and Drew knowing they wouldn't come all along. A booster told me this was a fact and Pope was wanted from the beginning. The BBN wouldn't understand not offering experienced coaches, but neither really fit here.

With the exception of Drew, this is very likely. I do think MB wanted Drew and tried to hire him, but I think Pope was high on his list from the start.

 

[BBUK]

Idk man. I think we might go a little far sometimes on the character assassinations with Cal. Thank God he isn’t here anymore and we have Pope, but I don’t need any extra hate in my heart. Cal brought us a title and he did a lot of things we don’t like but he gone.

I have no hate at all for Cow. (Never used that word and never thought that though you brought it up.)

I will stop with this though, Yeah Cow was the coach AND he did bring in the players so he did that and did win a title BUT, that 2012 team was too good to lose it. (Self really did, just run out of time...) Cow was the same coach and went into stall ball with that team as well. Take care.

 

[B.B.H.]

I have no hate at all for Cow. (Never used that word and never thought that though you brought it up.)

I will stop with this though, Yeah Cow was the coach AND he did bring in the players so he did that and did win a title BUT, that 2012 team was too good to lose it. (Self really did, just run out of time...) Cow was the same coach and went into stall ball with that team as well. Take care.

I didn’t say you hate him. I think I had a serious amount of animosity toward him personally. That has really cooled. I am beyond happy we have who we have

 

[Girthang]

Idk man. I think we might go a little far sometimes on the character assassinations with Cal. Thank God he isn’t here anymore and we have Pope, but I don’t need any extra hate in my heart. Cal brought us a title and he did a lot of things we don’t like but he gone.

It's not hate if it's factual.

If you are ripped off financially or fraudulently smeared publicly by someone and say so, it's not hate. I can tell you I've had these things happen to me, and I don't hate the people that did it. But I'm certainly not going to put myself in that position again by trusting those people or encouraging others to trust them.

 

[B.B.H.]

It's not hate if it's factual.

If you are ripped off financially or fraudulently smeared publicly by someone and say so, it's not hate. I can tell you I've had these things happen to me, and I don't hate the people that did it. But I'm certainly not going to put myself in that position again by trusting those people or encouraging others to trust them.

Hey man, I’m not throwing rocks at a soul. I was speaking for me. Yes, I had animosity my own self toward Cal. I’m saying I don’t want to be that way anymore. Is it factually true that Cal didn’t run sets, refused to implement zone, prioritized NBA prospects, etc? Do I think I had an unhealthy disdain for the man? Yes. I’m very flawed but I want to live better than that

 

[Catfanlou]

to be fair sometimes facts are troublesome. Keeping Joker an extra year ran off twenty thousand fans ( remember when we were “ 70,000 strong “ . ) And they never came back. Cost to the program about fifty million.

Coach Gillispie fiasco could have been avoided by proper due diligence . He had a reputation of drinking and carosing which could easily have been discovered if anyone bothered to check .

Stoops fell into his lap . He wanted Scott Drew and Billy D but settled for Pope . His contracts have been far too generous and he should thank Arkansas everyday for taking one huge mistake of a contract off his record .
Overall he has been a pretty good AD but has made some very very expensive mistakes . So both sides on this argument have good points

 

[DrH. Lecter]

While I agree some, I do not think Cow thought he was not doing the right things to where he still believed he was either fooling a large part of the fan base or was so self-absorbed he thought the issues were coming from a vocal few.

Cow is/ was living in a dream world. He could not or cannot be embarrassed as he should have been too ashamed to show his face. Embarrassment is a key trait that is nearly missing from society but that's another subject. Glad it was found/ seen the King was naked in this case... In any event...

I think that he believed we were ignorant Bennies that did not understand the nuance. He also was lying to himself about the direction he had lead the program. He just could not get out of his own way. He clearly still believes that you can win going 5 star young in an NIL era with a portal attached. He's become Denny Crum who refused to embrace the 3-point arc...while guys like Pitino and pressing were mocked as "gimmicky." He's too old to change and obviously has a posse of yes-men around him. He will dig his heels in to prove all of us wrong, that you don't have to get older to win.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

to be fair sometimes facts are troublesome. Keeping Joker an extra year ran off twenty thousand fans ( remember when we were “ 70,000 strong “ . ) And they never came back. Cost to the program about fifty million.

Coach Gillispie fiasco could have been avoided by proper due diligence . He had a reputation of drinking and carosing which could easily have been discovered if anyone bothered to check .

Stoops fell into his lap . He wanted Scott Drew and Billy D but settled for Pope . His contracts have been far too generous and he should thank Arkansas everyday for taking one huge mistake of a contract off his record .
Overall he has been a pretty good AD but has made some very very expensive mistakes . So both sides on this argument have good points

And to be fair opinions/spin of facts can be troublesome as well. Your Monday Morning QBing is a great example. He was forced to hire the good coaches by some "deep state cabal" influencing the athletics dept....but the bad coaching hires were all on him alone. LOL. Illogical at best and dishonest at worst.

You guys are basically..."he was forced to hire the good Cal....but gave out stupid contracts which I believe you guys with BDS call a "life-time" contract......that was not life-time and also was never completed or paid out. The process worked though I would have pulled the plug a couple years earlier.

"Settled for Pope?" Really. He said, ah shit, I'm stuck with that Pope guy that everybody in the fanbase and Sports Media is saying I should hire. Pssst, Pope was not the hot name by ANY stretch of the imagination....but Gillispie sorta was at the time...if facts matter.

One last FACT. The building was renovated DOWN to 61,000 capacity in 2015.

 

[Cats192]

Question, is it true that MB was urged/ pushed to offer Hurley and Drew knowing they wouldn't come all along. A booster told me this was a fact and Pope was wanted from the beginning. The BBN wouldn't understand not offering experienced coaches, but neither really fit here.

I have no connections or inside knowledge.

But it was widely spready for 2 years before Cal's departure that if he ever left, Scott Drew was the next coach. IIRC, Matt Jones and Kyle Tucker were both saying it with a great deal of certainty.

Then after Drew balked, Aaron Torres tweeted talking about how MB looked like an idiot after leaking to the media for years that Drew was basically a lock to be the next HC at Kentucky. I think I remember Goodman making similar comments.

Mitch and Drew are by all accounts personal friends. They share similar values. Mitch wants that in a coach. Drew has a National title. I 1000% believe that Mitch wanted Drew, even above Hurley. I don't think anyone twisted Mitch's arm to offer that.

Hurley just won back to back national titles. They were dominant this past season. I think he's the de facto best coach in CBB. I personally never thought he was leaving UCONN for Kentucky. But you would be a bad AD NOT to have the conversation with the guy.

KSR has also talked about how several guys were on the NO FLY list from the University Board. Why would they need to be on a no fly list if Pope was the only guy truly considered?

And then Billy Donovan was unavailable until the playoffs ended for the Bulls. And we couldn't wait weeks when we didn't even have a roster.

Reading the publicly available tea leaves: Mitch went into this knowing Scott Drew was a done deal. Mitch found out he was wrong. We may or may not have scared the Drews into changing their minds about Lexington. We then went to the best coach in all of CBB. He said no.

I have zero inside information. It just doesn't make sense that we drug it out, had Scott Drew fly up here. Sent people out to meet with Hurley. We had to build a roster from scratch. And we wasted days, weeks, putting on a show so people thought we were doing our due diligence on Drew and Hurley?

After TWO no's, and zero certainty regarding Billy D, I assume there was internal and external pressure to get a yes. Duke has had success with a Duke guy. UNC has had success with a UNC guy.

I think Mitch decided bringing in a Kentucky guy with Power 5 experience was his smartest play. I'm guessing Pope interviwed absurdly well. You hear the guy talk, and you can tell he's brilliant. He's confident because he knows what he's doing and what he's talking about. Everything seems under control.

MB needed to win the PR game. Getting more "no's" looks terrible. Pope was an immediate yes. Pope's connection to a championship team was a huge PR win. Pope had a good season his 1st year in the Big 12. And ultimately, being a Kentucky guy means if it works out, he's a lifer and NOT going to be looking at the NBA, UCLA, etc.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I have no connections or inside knowledge.

But it was widely spready for 2 years before Cal's departure that if he ever left, Scott Drew was the next coach. IIRC, Matt Jones and Kyle Tucker were both saying it with a great deal of certainty.

Then after Drew balked, Aaron Torres tweeted talking about how MB looked like an idiot after leaking to the media for years that Drew was basically a lock to be the next HC at Kentucky. I think I remember Goodman making similar comments.

Mitch and Drew are by all accounts personal friends. They share similar values. Mitch wants that in a coach. Drew has a National title. I 1000% believe that Mitch wanted Drew, even above Hurley. I don't think anyone twisted Mitch's arm to offer that.

Hurley just won back to back national titles. They were dominant this past season. I think he's the de facto best coach in CBB. I personally never thought he was leaving UCONN for Kentucky. But you would be a bad AD NOT to have the conversation with the guy.

KSR has also talked about how several guys were on the NO FLY list from the University Board. Why would they need to be on a no fly list if Pope was the only guy truly considered?

And then Billy Donovan was unavailable until the playoffs ended for the Bulls. And we couldn't wait weeks when we didn't even have a roster.

Reading the publicly available tea leaves: Mitch went into this knowing Scott Drew was a done deal. Mitch found out he was wrong. We may or may not have scared the Drews into changing their minds about Lexington. We then went to the best coach in all of CBB. He said no.

I have zero inside information. It just doesn't make sense that we drug it out, had Scott Drew fly up here. Sent people out to meet with Hurley. We had to build a roster from scratch. And we wasted days, weeks, putting on a show so people thought we were doing our due diligence on Drew and Hurley?

After TWO no's, and zero certainty regarding Billy D, I assume there was internal and external pressure to get a yes. Duke has had success with a Duke guy. UNC has had success with a UNC guy.

I think Mitch decided bringing in a Kentucky guy with Power 5 experience was his smartest play. I'm guessing Pope interviwed absurdly well. You hear the guy talk, and you can tell he's brilliant. He's confident because he knows what he's doing and what he's talking about. Everything seems under control.

MB needed to win the PR game. Getting more "no's" looks terrible. Pope was an immediate yes. Pope's connection to a championship team was a huge PR win. Pope had a good season his 1st year in the Big 12. And ultimatey, being a Kentucky guy means if it works out, he's a lifer and going to be looking at the NBA, UCLA, etc.

yep. You might fix your last sentence that I am sure you meant "NOT be looking."

 

[B.B.H.]

I have no connections or inside knowledge.

But it was widely spready for 2 years before Cal's departure that if he ever left, Scott Drew was the next coach. IIRC, Matt Jones and Kyle Tucker were both saying it with a great deal of certainty.

Then after Drew balked, Aaron Torres tweeted talking about how MB looked like an idiot after leaking to the media for years that Drew was basically a lock to be the next HC at Kentucky. I think I remember Goodman making similar comments.

Mitch and Drew are by all accounts personal friends. They share similar values. Mitch wants that in a coach. Drew has a National title. I 1000% believe that Mitch wanted Drew, even above Hurley. I don't think anyone twisted Mitch's arm to offer that.

Hurley just won back to back national titles. They were dominant this past season. I think he's the de facto best coach in CBB. I personally never thought he was leaving UCONN for Kentucky. But you would be a bad AD NOT to have the conversation with the guy.

KSR has also talked about how several guys were on the NO FLY list from the University Board. Why would they need to be on a no fly list if Pope was the only guy truly considered?

And then Billy Donovan was unavailable until the playoffs ended for the Bulls. And we couldn't wait weeks when we didn't even have a roster.

Reading the publicly available tea leaves: Mitch went into this knowing Scott Drew was a done deal. Mitch found out he was wrong. We may or may not have scared the Drews into changing their minds about Lexington. We then went to the best coach in all of CBB. He said no.

I have zero inside information. It just doesn't make sense that we drug it out, had Scott Drew fly up here. Sent people out to meet with Hurley. We had to build a roster from scratch. And we wasted days, weeks, putting on a show so people thought we were doing our due diligence on Drew and Hurley?

After TWO no's, and zero certainty regarding Billy D, I assume there was internal and external pressure to get a yes. Duke has had success with a Duke guy. UNC has had success with a UNC guy.

I think Mitch decided bringing in a Kentucky guy with Power 5 experience was his smartest play. I'm guessing Pope interviwed absurdly well. You hear the guy talk, and you can tell he's brilliant. He's confident because he knows what he's doing and what he's talking about. Everything seems under control.

MB needed to win the PR game. Getting more "no's" looks terrible. Pope was an immediate yes. Pope's connection to a championship team was a huge PR win. Pope had a good season his 1st year in the Big 12. And ultimatey, being a Kentucky guy means if it works out, he's a lifer and going to be looking at the NBA, UCLA, etc.

I actually think your explanation is a great example of what OP was trying to say to begin with. Notice how much attention to detail and nuance is given when explaining why a good hire or positive attribute for Mitch is actually something that shouldn’t be attributed to Mitch. When it is something that would warrant criticism of Mitch, there isn’t nuance or attention to detail that would explain the “why”. I’ve come to believe people who adopted the “Ditch Mitch” mantra intently enough are incapable of giving the dude even the tiniest flower. I’m not a 100% Mitch guy myself but I think he’s overall done a very good job. I’d ask who would be a better AD for us specifically? I think he has been more than fine

 

[Mike-D]

How long until the "Barnhart was forced to hire Pope" cries begin? Sadly this is not really sarcasm. That "bitter people" being discussed in the other thread as some of these folks. Barnhart is their version of "orange man bad." Nothing MB has done has made them happy.

Will any of them FINALLY agree that MB actually does know what he is doing. Is there a single one of us that had Coach Pope on their personal radar screen? Certainly not on mine. In fact, all of our teams in men's and women's sports are in good hands.

Can we start to appreciate that we are good hands with Mitch Barnhart?

If you like Barnhart, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with you. Crazy talk.

 

[B.B.H.]

If you like Barnhart, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with you. Crazy talk.

Want to be popular on Rupp Rafters? Answer every question with something that crushes Cal, constantly complain about Mitch and bash players personally without delay.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I actually think your explanation is a great example of what OP was trying to say to begin with. Notice how much attention to detail and nuance is given when explaining why a good hire or positive attribute for Mitch is actually something that shouldn’t be attributed to Mitch. When it is something that would warrant criticism of Mitch, there isn’t nuance or attention to detail that would explain the “why”. I’ve come to believe people who adopted the “Ditch Mitch” mantra intently enough are incapable of giving the dude even the tiniest flower. I’m not a 100% Mitch guy myself but I think he’s overall done a very good job. I’d ask who would be a better AD for us specifically? I think he has been more than fine

These folks have been around since the Tom Jurich fan club in Louisville media took pride in shitting on MB. Just refer to the CJ Op-Ed pieces at the time. LilBro had Pitino and Petrino and a Potemkin Village of athletic venues and rogue programs.

UK did not have a Crime Family in the Jurich gang and a willing President who was complicit in paying for it. They allowed Jurich to screw the citizens of Lou with the Yum Center finance deal that was a funding vehicle for UofL athletics. So was MB at a competitive disadvantage when Jurich was stealing tens of millions to pay for all that "stuff." Hell yes.

So our fans with "battered wife syndrome" started to lust for Jurich and in the process hated MB by comparison. It took Gov. Bevin to unwind all of that....and see where they are now that the illegal cash cow has been slayed.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

If you like Barnhart, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with you. Crazy talk.

I don't expect everyone to be as versed in facts or to look at those facts analytically as I do. Bashing MB as I've seen here for almost 20 years is just plain....crazy talk....rooted in emotion and fake news.

 

[Mike-D]

I don't expect everyone to be as versed in facts or to look at those facts analytically as I do. Bashing MB as I've seen here for almost 20 years is just plain....crazy talk....rooted in emotion and fake news.

There are reasons to like him, there are reasons to dislike him. And no not personally, but as our AD. I'm not gonna sit here and debate them all or argue about it.

 

[Cats192]

I actually think your explanation is a great example of what OP was trying to say to begin with. Notice how much attention to detail and nuance is given when explaining why a good hire or positive attribute for Mitch is actually something that shouldn’t be attributed to Mitch. When it is something that would warrant criticism of Mitch, there isn’t nuance or attention to detail that would explain the “why”. I’ve come to believe people who adopted the “Ditch Mitch” mantra intently enough are incapable of giving the dude even the tiniest flower. I’m not a 100% Mitch guy myself but I think he’s overall done a very good job. I’d ask who would be a better AD for us specifically? I think he has been more than fine

Mitch has a great legacy at Kentucky.

Cal was a great hire. We got multiple Final 4's and a National Championship out of the ordeal.

Stoops was a very good hire, maybe great, by Kentucky football standards. We were a regular bowl game participant. We had multiple 10 win seasons. We became a "cool" football school on the upswing for most of a decade.

Mitch has some failures. He handicapped us with that lifetime contract and the massive buyout for Cal.
Stoops having a massive buyout has also handcuffed us. We're going to wind up keeping Stoops at least 1 year too long, if not more.
We kept the Women's basketbal coach too long.

I think Mitch has gotten a bit lucky, especially on Calipari.

Mark Pope appears to be yet another great hire. On one hand, I think Mitch was taking a chance, and it worked out. On the other, there was an evaluation process before deciding if the risk was worth it.

Kenny Brooks seems to be a fantastic hire. Kentucky WBB is on the rise.

I'll give Mitch some credit, while recognizing he's done some things that have put us in some bad spots as well.

 

[BBUK]

Want to be popular on Rupp Rafters? Answer every question with something that crushes Cal, constantly complain about Mitch and bash players personally without delay.

Cow and Barndoor... 😁

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Mitch has a great legacy at Kentucky.

Cal was a great hire. We got multiple Final 4's and a National Championship out of the ordeal.

Stoops was a very good hire, maybe great, by Kentucky football standards. We were a regular bowl game participant. We had multiple 10 win seasons. We became a "cool" football school on the upswing for most of a decade.

Mitch has some failures. He handicapped us with that lifetime contract and the massive buyout for Cal.
Stoops having a massive buyout has also handcuffed us. We're going to wind up keeping Stoops at least 1 year too long, if not more.
We kept the Women's basketbal coach too long.

I think Mitch has gotten a bit lucky, especially on Calipari.

Mark Pope appears to be yet another great hire. On one hand, I think Mitch was taking a chance, and it worked out. On the other, there was an evaluation process before deciding if the risk was worth it.

Kenny Brooks seems to be a fantastic hire. Kentucky WBB is on the rise.

I'll give Mitch some credit, while recognizing he's done some things that have put us in some bad spots as well.

Aside from the "fake news" lifetime contract canard I agree with much of what you said. Context is important when using or twisting Monday morning quarterbacking to judge. Our fans would never allow MB to shoot for anything but the stars with a major sport hire. Even knowing the answer would be no. He's in a no-win situation. Our fanbase is convinced that we have the top job in the land and if we reach out to Hurley or K or Belichick or Saban they would never say no. Then he gets blamed because Saban turns us down. Its silly.

Remember when the LilBro fans believed they could get Billy D any time they wanted....but have to settle for that weirdo with the glasses. That's how we look sometimes.

 

[Bkocats]

I have no connections or inside knowledge.

But it was widely spready for 2 years before Cal's departure that if he ever left, Scott Drew was the next coach. IIRC, Matt Jones and Kyle Tucker were both saying it with a great deal of certainty.

Then after Drew balked, Aaron Torres tweeted talking about how MB looked like an idiot after leaking to the media for years that Drew was basically a lock to be the next HC at Kentucky. I think I remember Goodman making similar comments.

Mitch and Drew are by all accounts personal friends. They share similar values. Mitch wants that in a coach. Drew has a National title. I 1000% believe that Mitch wanted Drew, even above Hurley. I don't think anyone twisted Mitch's arm to offer that.

Hurley just won back to back national titles. They were dominant this past season. I think he's the de facto best coach in CBB. I personally never thought he was leaving UCONN for Kentucky. But you would be a bad AD NOT to have the conversation with the guy.

KSR has also talked about how several guys were on the NO FLY list from the University Board. Why would they need to be on a no fly list if Pope was the only guy truly considered?

And then Billy Donovan was unavailable until the playoffs ended for the Bulls. And we couldn't wait weeks when we didn't even have a roster.

Reading the publicly available tea leaves: Mitch went into this knowing Scott Drew was a done deal. Mitch found out he was wrong. We may or may not have scared the Drews into changing their minds about Lexington. We then went to the best coach in all of CBB. He said no.

I have zero inside information. It just doesn't make sense that we drug it out, had Scott Drew fly up here. Sent people out to meet with Hurley. We had to build a roster from scratch. And we wasted days, weeks, putting on a show so people thought we were doing our due diligence on Drew and Hurley?

After TWO no's, and zero certainty regarding Billy D, I assume there was internal and external pressure to get a yes. Duke has had success with a Duke guy. UNC has had success with a UNC guy.

I think Mitch decided bringing in a Kentucky guy with Power 5 experience was his smartest play. I'm guessing Pope interviwed absurdly well. You hear the guy talk, and you can tell he's brilliant. He's confident because he knows what he's doing and what he's talking about. Everything seems under control.

MB needed to win the PR game. Getting more "no's" looks terrible. Pope was an immediate yes. Pope's connection to a championship team was a huge PR win. Pope had a good season his 1st year in the Big 12. And ultimately, being a Kentucky guy means if it works out, he's a lifer and NOT going to be looking at the NBA, UCLA, etc.

Fantastic post. Well thought out and logical

 

[Skyguyb27]

Question, is it true that MB was urged/ pushed to offer Hurley and Drew knowing they wouldn't come all along. A booster told me this was a fact and Pope was wanted from the beginning. The BBN wouldn't understand not offering experienced coaches, but neither really fit here.

That is a great question. I don’t know the answer but I’d love to know too. If Mitch went through the motions and wanted Pope all along, I’m not mad at him. I’m absolutely elated over the job Pope has done.

 

[Bkocats]

I don't expect everyone to be as versed in facts or to look at those facts analytically as I do. Bashing MB as I've seen here for almost 20 years is just plain....crazy talk....rooted in emotion and fake news.

I’m guilty of bashing Mitch to be honest
Mostly over the whole Calipari lifetime deal
And I admit it was totally an emotional reaction

**note: I know it wasn’t really lifetime but it felt that way due to the buyout

 

[Skyguyb27]

I’m guilty of bashing Mitch to be honest
Mostly over the whole Calipari lifetime deal
And I admit it was totally an emotional reaction

**note: I know it wasn’t really lifetime but it felt that way due to the buyout

You know, these lifetime contracts are crazy. 5 years is normal, at least for football. A lot of people wanted MB fired for these said contracts. But here’s a question I don’t know the answer to but I’d love to. Was it really MB signing these contracts, or did the board approve them and tell MB it’s a go to sign it. I have always wondered if maybe MB is the scape goat here for higher ups.

 

[B.B.H.]

I’m guilty of bashing Mitch to be honest
Mostly over the whole Calipari lifetime deal
And I admit it was totally an emotional reaction

**note: I know it wasn’t really lifetime but it felt that way due to the buyout

Being completely honest, I remember the 2019 contract situation like it was yesterday. There has been a lot of revisionist history about that since then. I remember the UCLA rumblings and a whole lot of people were freaking out about the possibility of Mitch letting Cal go to UCLA. In 2019 Calipari wasn’t nearly the detestable figure that he is now. That year, we were four years removed from a nearly perfect season, seven years from a national title, coming off an Elite Eight run and had been to three final fours in the last eight years. The momentum had stalled a little but Calipari was still considered a force to be reckoned with. There was fear Cal was going to UCLA and start winning titles there and it would be on Mitch for not keeping Cal around. Obviously, we now see that all in a totally different light. Calipari never made another elite eight and everything got significantly worse and more toxic after. It doesn’t change the way things were in 2019. There were two options Mitch had: give Cal (who had leverage) the contract or don’t give him the contract. Either decision would be entirely hated by a section of the fanbase. There is context with these things that is rarely considered.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Being completely honest, I remember the 2019 contract situation like it was yesterday. There has been a lot of revisionist history about that since then. I remember the UCLA rumblings and a whole lot of people were freaking out about the possibility of Mitch letting Cal go to UCLA. In 2019 Calipari wasn’t nearly the detestable figure that he is now. That year, we were four years removed from a nearly perfect season, seven years from a national title, coming off an Elite Eight run and had been to three final fours in the last eight years. The momentum had stalled a little but Calipari was still considered a force to be reckoned with. There was fear Cal was going to UCLA and start winning titles there and it would be on Mitch for not keeping Cal around. Obviously, we now see that all in a totally different light. Calipari never made another elite eight and everything got significantly worse and more toxic after. It doesn’t change the way things were in 2019. There were two options Mitch had: give Cal (who had leverage) the contract or don’t give him the contract. Either decision would be entirely hated by a section of the fanbase. There is context with these things that is rarely considered.

Amen. When reviewed in context....with the UCLA thing Cal was flirting with (real or imagined) MB would have been run out of town if Cal went to UCAL (SIC). It was 10 years...BUT it to me seemed really like 5 because of the Ambassador angle. Anyway, none of that ever played out. In the end MB was able, I assume, to play hardball with the weakened Cal to force Cal out voluntarily without the payday.