Maybe only Dean Smith and Cal managed to avoid winning with a huge talent advantage over every other team in the country like Coach K did. Yes, they did make the Final 4 but, dang, the NBA certainly thinks a lot of their roster from last year. In retrospect, you'd almost have to view last year as a disappointment, much like UK in 2015.
How did Duke NOT win the NC with 'the greatest' coach and 5 guys drafted (3 in top 16, 4th at #26)?
- Thread starter gamecockcat
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Our failure to even make a Final Four in 2010 is way worse than Duke making the Final Four last year. Or worse than our 2015 loss in the Final Four as well.
Well, he won a title in 2010 with no lotto picks so I guess it evens out.
If Duke makes some free throws against UNC, I assume they would have beaten Kansas.
If Duke makes some free throws against UNC, I assume they would have beaten Kansas.
If only Jodie Meeks had stayed and played that 2010 season.
They may not have won the title but their greatest day as a program surely was last nights draft.
The 2010 team losing to WVU and never really being in the game, is way bigger of a failure.
We had five first round picks and three lottery picks and lost to a WVU team that had no one get drafted and I think only one dude played in the NBA for a year.
Team would have been absolutely unreal. Even without Meeks that team still had the #1 pick in the draft, another top 5 pick, and 3 others picked in the 1st round. 4 in the top 20. 5 1st round picks. Can't think of another team that had that much talent and didn't make a Final Four. Maybe the Duke team with Zion, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish. But still not quite.
Banchero is a great player, but he would disappear at times. If he played hard, they probably win it all.
I am pretty sure UK was up 5-7 points and in the game all the first half. I agree it is a bigger failure, but that team, like this year's Duke team, was flawed and relied to much on freshmen. We were one good shooter away from a better shot at 40-0 IMO and Meeks was that missing piece.
On the overall theme of this thread, this season again shows that having to rely on super frosh will often result in a devastating close loss in the Elite 8 or Final Four as at some point they will fold under the pressure. You need a good mix. I do think the 2014 UK team was the best example of what an almost all freshmen team can do, but they needed SOPH WCS to finish the deal IMO.
Yeah, we had an 8 point lead at one point in the first half, went into half down 2. WVU led by 16 with 4:25 minutes to go. So we never regained the lead after going down 21-18 with 4:17 in the first half.
But you're right. Shooting was our weakness and ultimately our downfall. Missing 13 free throws and going 4 of 32 from 3 is going to send you home every time.
The 2012 team would never have won it without upperclassmen either.
But you're right. Shooting was our weakness and ultimately our downfall. Missing 13 free throws and going 4 of 32 from 3 is going to send you home every time.
The 2012 team would never have won it without upperclassmen either.
Ccc's history, always 1 guy short, usually a shooter
Because relying on a bunch of young, hired-gun freshmen with one foot out the door of your program is not a good strategy for national championships. It can work very occasionally, but it's extremely flawed and unreliable.
Why? They were -4 faves vs UNC and so was Kansas. Sagarin had Kansas -1.5 against Dook and Pomeroy Kansas -2
Refusing to teach any semblance of defense during K’s one and done era reign.
As soon as Duke stopped slapping floors they stopped being a threat to win titles. K could get blue collar white kids to get stops, not so much with the top 5 recruits who knew they were gonna be rich in a few months.
As soon as Duke stopped slapping floors they stopped being a threat to win titles. K could get blue collar white kids to get stops, not so much with the top 5 recruits who knew they were gonna be rich in a few months.
I don’t know, but I can tell you this, if Cal was coaching that team and lost, he would have been hanged. Coach K of course, didn’t take any heat at all. That’s the difference between Duke fans and Kentucky fans. Duke has loyal fans, Kentucky has mostly pessimistic, ungrateful, unrealistic fans. Duke is now the gold standard in college basketball.
UNC made shots in the last three minutes and the Dukies did the butt pucker thing.
If Keels had played like he did against us Game 1 the probably win it all. That dude waved his stuff around at us and then turned into the Ghost of Mr Chicken for the rest of the season.
You obviously don’t talk to many Duke fans. People were LIVID at K. And I mean what was Duke gonna do, after that game? Fire him? 😂
If you look at Coach K's talent over his tenure at Duke you could probably argue he did the least with the most. Not Coach Cal. Not Dean Smith. Coach K should probably have 8 or 9 titles actually. I mean he did win over 1200 games afterall.
How so, specifically ?
what have they done the past 10-15 years than Kansas hasn’t ?
Final Four games are random. Just gotta get there first. That's the measure of success.
dook is only the gold standard in terms of having the most one-and-dones every year.
This past spring was dook's first NCAA tournament since 2019. They just lost the greatest coach they will ever have. They return 1 single player to their roster.
Your lie about dook fans is ridiculous. Anyone who has visited the dook boards or read dook fans' posts on social media after they missed the 2021 NCAA tournament, or even lost a game to a lower ranked team, can tell you that dook fans are vitriolic, angry, and perfectly willing to trash their coaches and players. Their messageboards are currently a ghost town because of how livid they were that "all those one-and-dones K recruited embarrassed the program in the final regular season game, and the ACC Tourney final, and the Final Four."
You're either a dook fan, or you're just talking out of your ass about a topic you are completely ignorant about.
While nothing is certain, I firmly believe that given all the circumstances, with K retiring and the talent level, Duke wins the final game. UNC was very inconsistent all the while blowing big leads and losing late in the season to a team like Pitt.
Also, as for the final game, UNC blew a 15 point halftime lead and had horrific execution and coaching inside of 1 minute left with the game hanging in the balance. While far from certain, I think KU was lucky to be facing UNC in those situations and not Duke.
Having said all that, all that ultimately matters is the end result. The rest is for chat board discussion.
Dating back to his time at Army, Coach K averaged a title once every 9.2 years and a Final Four once every 3.5 years.
Dating back to UMass, Coach Cal averaged a title once every 29 years and a Final Four once every 4.8 years.
It's probably not wise to compare the two.
Dating back to UMass, Coach Cal averaged a title once every 29 years and a Final Four once every 4.8 years.
It's probably not wise to compare the two.
I agree. Not even Comparable. Someone actually said K did less with more than dean smith? 😂
It's hard to argue that anyone besides Cal holds the throne for squandering the most future NBA talent.
Four #1 picks. Six top 2 picks. 21 lottery picks and 44 draft picks since 2010. $3 billion in NBA contracts.
One title.
Kentucky fans calling out Coach K for choking or underperforming show a criminal lack of self-awareness, if they’re the same people that talk up Coach Cal like he’s the GOAT. If you call out Cal for his issues, then I’m not looking at you.
Are we really calling out a school that just went to the Final Four?
And lost or a first year coach and their most bitter rival to ruin a fair tale ending for the Rat King?
Yes. Yes we are. Because if that were us and lost to KP at UofL? Duke would be doing the same.
K has ONE FF over us in the last seven years with arguable MORE talent than Cal had at times Zion, Banchero, etc).
People say Cal has squandered talent, and never mention K lately. So, just calling it out.
I.m fair about it. The only reason it pisses me off a bit is because Duke got WAAAAAAY more protection than we ever did under K. So yeah, K has five titles. And half of those were gifts, especially that 2015 title. So eff the K love. That was a beautiful ending to the biggest fake in college ball. And I will celebrate it daily.
I’ll give you that, you’ll at least criticize Cal when the mood strikes. It just looks absolutely absurd to have and shows no introspection whatsoever of our own guy and our own program to sit here and criticize a coach for choking that has 13 final fours, 5 titles and just went to the final four in the year we got beat embarrassingly by a 15 seed. But yes at least you’ll fire on Cal. Some of these guys have zero self-awareness.
It's about results. And sure, sometimes you just get beat when you shouldn't. K has had that happen to. The same way it happened to us.
I feel I'm qualified to fire on K fan wise. I used to really respect the dude, even if he was our most hated coach rival. But the way he ran his program turned me off as I got older. The shady stuff, the player attitudes, the way he talked down to reporters and student journalists at Duke. But the camel back breaker was letting Grayson act like a trust fund brat. And then promising he'd be suspended a 'good amount of time' which was a nothing one game against a lower quality opponent. That's when I was done showing respect or reverence to the rat bastard. Eff K.
But the cumulative issues with Cal right now have me flat or down on him. He's taken some good steps (changed staff around last year, landing Dilly, distancing himself from Sharpe and not using Draft Night as a ego boost), but now it's time to turn it around. Good season last year with a bad post season. Let's get both this go round. I'm not ready to abandon Cal yet, because I think at his best, he's the best fit for UK basketball. But this is it. After 9-16 (strike one), last year's piss poor choke job in the post season(1-2, strike two), Cal has to get it this year or get gone.
Change the subject back to UK(cal) failures. You miserable guys are so predictable.
