Honest question for Cal defenders

[gwjenning]

How many more seasons does he get without making it back to the FF? We’re coming up on 7 straight without one

How many more seasons can he miss the NCAAT? He’s missed 2 of the last 9

Or does matter if he never makes the FF or NCAAT again? Your sticking with him no matter how bad it gets

 

[STEVECAT]

Since the last Final 4, everybody started cheating and buying players. Fox team got screwed obviously. Pj/Travis team was a few plays away. Maxey/Quickley team could have made a run, won the SEC by 3 games. Not even a huge Cal defender, it is just facts. I really don't think someone else could do a better job. Would have made the NCAAT if we played all of those usual cupcake games this year, and if Nerlens didn't tear his ACL. Look at the facts man, you sound really dramatic and spoiled.

 

[gwjenning]

Since the last Final 4, everybody started cheating and buying players. Fox team got screwed obviously. Pj/Travis team was a few plays away. Maxey/Quickley team could have made a run, won the SEC by 3 games. Not even a huge Cal defender, it is just facts. I really don't think someone else could do a better job. Would have made the NCAAT if we played all of those usual cupcake games this year, and if Nerlens didn't tear his ACL. Look at the facts man, you sound really dramatic and spoiled.

You didn’t answer my question!
You just threw what if’s out there!

 

[anon_ce2llurbpkli4]

How many more seasons does he get without making it back to the FF? We’re coming up on 7 straight without one

How many more seasons can he miss the NCAAT? He’s missed 2 of the last 9

Or does matter if he never makes the FF or NCAAT again? Your sticking with him no matter how bad it gets

I really don’t understand these types of threads. What exactly are you looking for OP? We’re all fans, we all agree this was a horrendous year. No doubt about that. But to keep harping on it serves no purpose other than to further divide the fan base. I think it goes without saying that if these same results keep occurring, UK’s administration will address it. Until then, we must look forward and hope this season was just an anomaly.

 

[H00SIER-Cat]

How many more seasons does he get without making it back to the FF? We’re coming up on 7 straight without one

How many more seasons can he miss the NCAAT? He’s missed 2 of the last 9

Or does matter if he never makes the FF or NCAAT again? Your sticking with him no matter how bad it gets

As many as Mitch and Cal agree on. Lifetime contract. ugh.

 

[UKGrad83]

Based on his "buyout", he's here for at least 9 more years. For better or worse...

 

[BigBlueFan19]

Attention??? I’m sure that’s the point of this thread....

 

[STEVECAT]

You didn’t answer my question!
You just threw what if’s out there!

What were you doing when we went 13 yrs without a final 4? Crying yourself to sleep? I’m sure you are super fun to be around...

 

[kybassfan]

Not sure what a Cal defender is. I think it’s must be a term intended to insult fans of the Kentucky basketball program. I like when they make final fours. That said there is no quota or an ‘or else’ tied to it.

Some here clearly have attached conditions to their support. When those conditions aren’t met, they piss and moan and eventually become quitters.”

 

[kyjeff1]

You know what’s really f'd up? Even if Cal misses the next 3 NCAA tournaments and gets fired, a portion of this fanbase and some of the media, will blame the BBN.

 

[HagginHall1999]

How many more seasons does he get without making it back to the FF? We’re coming up on 7 straight without one

How many more seasons can he miss the NCAAT? He’s missed 2 of the last 9

Or does matter if he never makes the FF or NCAAT again? Your sticking with him no matter how bad it gets

Do you count the tournament that didn't happen in 19-20?

 

[EliteBlue]

Since the last Final 4, everybody started cheating and buying players. Fox team got screwed obviously. Pj/Travis team was a few plays away. Maxey/Quickley team could have made a run, won the SEC by 3 games. Not even a huge Cal defender, it is just facts. I really don't think someone else could do a better job. Would have made the NCAAT if we played all of those usual cupcake games this year, and if Nerlens didn't tear his ACL. Look at the facts man, you sound really dramatic and spoiled.

I don't believe we make it this year even with cupcakes games. Richmond and GT beat us, we won a total of 9 games.....even with another 10 wins and the same SEC record, we are on the bubble at best. We were under .500 in conference.

 

[HagginHall1999]

15-16 (32)
16-17 (EE)
17-18 (16)
18-19 (EE)
20-21 (NT)

Considering the above results and Cal's previous track record I am ok giving him through 2022-2023 season.

So two more years...however, if we tail spin again this coming year I will have lost total faith.

I think regardless his last year may be 2022-2023.

 

[STEVECAT]

I don't believe we make it this year even with cupcakes games. Richmond and GT beat us, we won a total of 9 games.....even with another 10 wins and the same SEC record, we are on the bubble at best. We were under .500 in conference.

Even so it’s one real missed NCAAT vs most tourney wins since 2010. I know, for me, the next final 4 or title will taste even sweeter. I’m not gonna be pissy about one bad year or two amongst tons of success

 

[RipThru]

Since the last Final 4, everybody started cheating and buying players. Fox team got screwed obviously. Pj/Travis team was a few plays away. Maxey/Quickley team could have made a run, won the SEC by 3 games. Not even a huge Cal defender, it is just facts. I really don't think someone else could do a better job. Would have made the NCAAT if we played all of those usual cupcake games this year, and if Nerlens didn't tear his ACL. Look at the facts man, you sound really dramatic and spoiled.

It's this mindset that is crazy to me. Hope is not a plan. Ifs and buts all boil down to non performance. And if you're going to give him credit for the first 5-6 years, then you should absolutely give him the blame for the last 5-6. He recruited and coached everyone of these dudes. It's on him. This is just a bunch of excuses.

 

[RipThru]

Not sure what a Cal defender is. I think it’s must be a term intended to insult fans of the Kentucky basketball program. I like when they make final fours. That said there is no quota or an ‘or else’ tied to it.

Some here clearly have attached conditions to their support. When those conditions aren’t met, they piss and moan and eventually become quitters.”

Why was Tubby fired then? Hell, why does ANYBODY ever get fired?

 

[MakinMusic]

My immediate interest is in how he responds to this terrible past season. Does he indicate he hated it too and have fire in his belly to fix it. As far as final fours......assuming he responds appropriately to this past mess, I would offer up a couple additional seasons to get to another championship opportunity. If his response is mediocre or worse, next season is the end of the line.

 

[STEVECAT]

It's this mindset that is crazy to me. Hope is not a plan. Ifs and buts all boil down to non performance. And if you're going to give him credit for the first 5-6 years, then you should absolutely give him the blame for the last 5-6. He recruited and coached everyone of these dudes. It's on him. This is just a bunch of excuses.

A lot of times , we will go 18-20 years without a title. It’s all about having a chance, which more times than not under Cal we have a shot. I’m not gonna defend the guy until the end of time obviously. Every coach has their expiration date, but it’s hard af to win the ncaa tourney. Tons of crazy shit happens. It’s all about having a team which a fighting chance.

 

[RipThru]

A lot of times , we will go 18-20 years without a title. It’s all about having a chance, which more times than not under Cal we have a shot. I’m not gonna defend the guy until the end of time obviously. Every coach has their expiration date, but it’s hard af to win the ncaa tourney. Tons of crazy shit happens. It’s all about having a team which a fighting chance.

I agree with that. But the fact remains that when you parade in to Lexington proclaiming "we are the gold standard" and "we are college basketball", you'd better get it right. For 6 years he did. Nobody I know with any sense is expecting a title every year. But you can't ignore the last 5 years either. It's a trend, and not a good one.

 

[bkingUK]

Why I read thread title and instantly perceive OP as a slow adult:

1) Perceives a group of “Cal defenders”, indicating he’s a “Cal attacker.”

2) Instantly know his priority is on attacking “Cal defenders” and to convert them to “Cal attackers”

3) More interested in perception or portraying negative views than following what’s actually going on with team

4) Intent to divide fan base into camps, demonizing the other camps

5) Indicated commitment to being a “Cal attacker” means it really doesn’t matter what anyone responds with. This isn’t a conversation. OP will reject any arguments contrary to his agenda

 

[RunninRichie]

Not sure what a Cal defender is. I think it’s must be a term intended to insult fans of the Kentucky basketball program. I like when they make final fours. That said there is no quota or an ‘or else’ tied to it.

Some here clearly have attached conditions to their support. When those conditions aren’t met, they piss and moan and eventually become quitters.”

sounds familiar.....

Fans turn their back on the Cats. Kentucky turned its back on the nation and our service men and women. Same, same. Scumbags all around. I don’t see the difference.

 

[SpamburgerHamburger]

Lol.

 

[kybassfan]

sounds familiar.....

Easy for you to kneel huh? I figured.

 

[kb22stang]

It's this mindset that is crazy to me. Hope is not a plan. Ifs and buts all boil down to non performance. And if you're going to give him credit for the first 5-6 years, then you should absolutely give him the blame for the last 5-6. He recruited and coached everyone of these dudes. It's on him. This is just a bunch of excuses.

Blame for the last 5 or 6? Are you saying that the last 6 seasons have been bad compared to KY's historical standards?

 

[Pnasty94]

WE have to give him this past year. He has been too successful for a long time. I give him a mulligan. However, in 2-5 years if we don't have another title, I will accept looking to bring in another coach. If you look at all the Greats, Coach K has 5. So a little better than one every ten years. Roy has 3 in his whole coaching career. Other than wooden, Cal is on track with those guys. Hell, even all the Pitino fanboys on this thread know he only has 1.

 

[kyjeff1]

sounds familiar.....

Busted big time.

 

[kb22stang]

I think it's reasonable to expect a coach to average 3 FF's every 10 years. Titles are harder to put a number on.

Clearly Cal needs to change his recruiting philosophy, this year was terrible. But trying to stretch it beyond this year shows your agenda isn't based on basketball.

 

[FatestCat]

How many more seasons does he get without making it back to the FF? We’re coming up on 7 straight without one

How many more seasons can he miss the NCAAT? He’s missed 2 of the last 9

Or does matter if he never makes the FF or NCAAT again? Your sticking with him no matter how bad it gets

Thinking about who is out there if Cal retired today who do you think would be better?

 

[Graham51]

I have memories of a stretch between 1958 and 1978 when UK won zero championships.
I don't recall people shouting to fire the coach during that 20 year stretch.
The Cal haters here, to quote Bugs Bunny "are a bunch of maroons."

 

[RunninRichie]

I have memories of a stretch between 1958 and 1978 when UK won zero championships.
I don't recall people shouting to fire the coach during that 20 year stretch.
The Cal haters here, to quote Bugs Bunny "are a bunch of maroons."

people were calling for Hall’s firing though....lol?

 

[kyjeff1]

Thinking about who is out there if Cal retired today who do you think would be better?

Well, lets go with a guy that has two full seasons and two final fours vacated. He needs to be able to recruit and probably be Italian. That’s what qualified Cal for the job.

You don't get to compare Cal's 2009-2017 achievements to everyone else in the country, that's not how it works.

But in my opinion, I think there are a lot of coaches out there that can equal what Cal has done at UK post 2015. How hard is that when you have the stage UK gives you? 2 elite 8's, a sweet 16, 2nd round exit and a 9-16 record. You mean to tell me there isn't a coach out there that can equal that? Tubby did better than that.

2009-2015 ain't happening again, Cal couldn’t replicate it himself, so it's not right to have those standards for his replacement. That’s what you had in mind though, don't lie and say you didn't.

 

[catlogic15]

Too many extenuating circumstances to assign a definitive number. Injuries, 5 star consensus recruits that don't fire, and yes, bad whistles in a sudden death scenario can all end a season. Those are all out of the control of any coach. We've seen examples of all of these in recent years.

 

[kyjeff1]

I have memories of a stretch between 1958 and 1978 when UK won zero championships.
I don't recall people shouting to fire the coach during that 20 year stretch.
The Cal haters here, to quote Bugs Bunny "are a bunch of maroons."

Rupp Rafters existed back then?

Come on man, this is such a lame comment. The fanbase had to chisel messages on a stone tablet back then and were you actually alive? Come on now.

 

[BigBlueFan19]

Well, lets go with a guy that has two full seasons and two final fours vacated. He needs to be able to recruit and probably be Italian. That’s what qualified Cal for the job.

You don't get to compare Cal's 2009-2017 achievements to everyone else in the country, that's not how it works.

But in my opinion, I think there are a lot of coaches out there that can equal what Cal has done at UK post 2015. How hard is that when you have the stage UK gives you? 2 elite 8's, a sweet 16, 2nd round exit and a 9-16 record. You mean to tell me there isn't a coach out there that can equal that? Tubby did better than that.

2009-2015 ain't happening again, Cal couldn’t replicate it himself, so it's not right to have those standards for his replacement. That’s what you had in mind though, don't lie and say you didn't.

I’ve never heard someone pick and choose the years that could count on someone’s resume. Lol Why doesn’t 2009-2017 count? 😂 You’re ridiculously ignorant! 😂

 

[kybassfan]

people were calling for Hall’s firing though....lol?

A few complete idiots were. Major case of lunacy.

 

[Short-Dawg-69]

OP valid question.
I am a Cal fan and don't want to see him gone.
But to answer your question and this is my honest opinion not that its correct or better than yours.

Last year was inexcusable
The year he went to the NIT and got beat was horrible and a free pass

So my answer is no more freebies like that.
Highest paid coach needs to perform like the highest paid coach.

 

[germuk]

I have never considered myself a “Cal defender,” and have vented my frustration several times after a bad loss since he’s been here. My biggest gripe is with his outdated offense, but before this year I really didn’t have a reason to be too upset.

I don’t worship the guy, but some of the criticism on this board has really flown the coop. This year is inexcusable, I won’t try to argue any different. But it was bad for a lot of programs and to me it seems like he has changed his philosophy a bit with who he’s recruiting. It’s not going to happen overnight though. It’s just April. The sky isn’t falling for next season yet. It doesn’t have to be doom and gloom all the time.

 

[ganner918]

I think it's reasonable to expect a coach to average 3 FF's every 10 years. Titles are harder to put a number on.

Clearly Cal needs to change his recruiting philosophy, this year was terrible. But trying to stretch it beyond this year shows your agenda isn't based on basketball.

Rupp had 6 Final Fours in 34 years of the NCAA tournament (1.76 per 10 years)
Joe B had 3 Final Fours in 13 years (2.31 per 10 years)
Sutton was 0/4
Rick had 3 Final Fours in 8 years (3.75 per 10 years)
Tubby had 1 Final Four in 10 years.
Cal has 4 Final Fours in 11 years of NCAA tournaments (3.63 per 10 years)

I'll be happy as hell if we get 3 per 10 years going forward, that's ahead of our historical average. 2 FFs per decade is what I think of as a baseline level of success.

 

[FatestCat]

Well, lets go with a guy that has two full seasons and two final fours vacated. He needs to be able to recruit and probably be Italian. That’s what qualified Cal for the job.

You don't get to compare Cal's 2009-2017 achievements to everyone else in the country, that's not how it works.

But in my opinion, I think there are a lot of coaches out there that can equal what Cal has done at UK post 2015. How hard is that when you have the stage UK gives you? 2 elite 8's, a sweet 16, 2nd round exit and a 9-16 record. You mean to tell me there isn't a coach out there that can equal that? Tubby did better than that.

2009-2015 ain't happening again, Cal couldn’t replicate it himself, so it's not right to have those standards for his replacement. That’s what you had in mind though, don't lie and say you didn't.

First of all don’t put words in my mouth, I had nothing in mind. You made the thread so I thought you had someone in mind and was interested to see who that might be.

The thing that gets lost in the whole fire Cal movement is who do we get when he is gone. I think of Shaka Smart after his run at VCU. He had so many thinking he was the next big D1 coach but that didn’t work out well for Texas.

 

[KyFaninNC]

You didn’t answer my question!
You just threw what if’s out there!

That is what they do, then claim they are not a coach defender.