Highs and Lows of the Mark Stoops era

[K_TIME]

1. I'm not wanting Stoops fired... I think he's done a solid job but he's not done a great job IMO which is why I am not inclined to believe UK should be on the hook for this much money per year as well as automatic escalators into the future that leave us with Stoops 5 years down the line going into his 7th year now....that feels like quite an overpay to me.
2. One thing that is completely lost in comparing past eras....we had 11 game schedules until 2006. So the past decade-ish has been an extra game and 95% of teams have just added another non conference cupcake. So 6 win seasons are about the same as 7 win seasons nowadays...and to an earlier point...the sheer number of bowls games is almost double what it was in 1990's as well.

So comparing stats like bowls games/7 wins vs. UK coaches of past needs to be fair and shave off one of those non conference cupcakes for Stoops/Joker/Brooks and then compare winning percentages, etc... That is a more valid comparison and to that point no UK coach has ever had the contract friendly deal Stoops has had IMO

 

[sluggercatfan]

1. I'm not wanting Stoops fired... I think he's done a solid job but he's not done a great job IMO which is why I am not inclined to believe UK should be on the hook for this much money per year as well as automatic escalators into the future that leave us with Stoops 5 years down the line going into his 7th year now....that feels like quite an overpay to me.
2. One thing that is completely lost in comparing past eras....we had 11 game schedules until 2006. So the past decade-ish has been an extra game and 95% of teams have just added another non conference cupcake. So 6 win seasons are about the same as 7 win seasons nowadays...and to an earlier point...the sheer number of bowls games is almost double what it was in 1990's as well.

So comparing stats like bowls games/7 wins vs. UK coaches of past needs to be fair and shave off one of those non conference cupcakes for Stoops/Joker/Brooks and then compare winning percentages, etc... That is a more valid comparison and to that point no UK coach has ever had the contract friendly deal Stoops has had IMO

Nor the facilities ...

 

[jauk11]

Nor the facilities ...

Times ten.

Being forced to use the "recruiting room" for about 15 years was worth a times nine by itself.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Times ten.

Being forced to use the "recruiting room" for about 15 years was worth a times nine by itself.

Wonder why it was on MB's watch that it got built along with stadium renovation, state of the art practice facility, new track facility as fine as any in the SEC, baseball facility as good as any in the country, new softball & soccer facility....more?

 

[jauk11]

Wonder why it was on MB's watch that it got built along with stadium renovation, state of the art practice facility, new track facility as fine as any in the SEC, baseball facility as good as any in the country, new softball & soccer facility....more?

Man, you must be a slow learner, I have explained it numerous time. To start with he ROBBED the football program of almost all of the money that FOOTBALL earned (AND the SEC contributed due to football, NOT basketball) and spent it on NON revenue sports (except men's basketball, which SHOULD have made even more money available for football and the minor sports) while maintaining football on a BARE MINIMUM budget.

After TEN YEARS of bare minimum support for football, recruiting budgets LESS than for SIX times the free rides in football, NOT counting the "Midnight Madness" basketball recruiting extravaganza which was about the same as football's recruiting budget, an operating budget for EIGHTY FIVE rides in a more expensive sport about the same as for FOURTEEN in basketball (how was that even possible?), Brooks starting at about $7M a year and ending at $9M a year after a great job for years considering HIS SUPPORT (AND giving part of that to Joker to keep him), with a "recruiting room" that was an incredible disgrace that they were STILL using (except for our best recruiter, Tee, that admitted he lied to recruits about our facilities AFTER he left, easy for him, a Thug U grad) after about 15 years AND after all the competition had a picture of it to make a lie of the common knowledge that UK was just a "basketball school", although with a GREAT fan base suffering in ignorance, our luckier than hell (and yes, sometimes better to be lucky than good) AD drove off about TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders, most of which haven't returned and a great portion of which never will. Even though the raw talent is in a new universe considering what Brooks had to work with, I expect us to need the 6,000 seats a year that got thrown away several times a year, although a LOT of former season ticket holders won't show up for a lot of the games..

So, repeating myself AGAIN for you, mitch, that insulted his clients, the "microwave fans" and probably rubbed it in by spending $156,000 on hanging some pictures on a wall somewhere instead of replacing the folding chairs AND projector AND putting carpet on the bare concrete floor of the recruiting "turnoff" with a SMALL part of that money probably had some of the bean counters notice TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders absent, maybe we should wake somebody up. Which coincided with the HUGE influx of money ($40,000,000 PLUS bowl revenue this year, MOST due to OTHER SEC teams that recognized the coming MONEY COW), the naming rights sale, the HUGE jump in contributions for the FOOTBALL CENTER (that the BB program already had for a decade) from football fans that swore on here they would NEVER contribute anything as long as mitch was in charge of spending it.

An obscene amount of money, mostly due to OTHER SEC ADs that weren't asleep at the wheel, and I still contend that while I am a BIG fan of all the other sports he would have had a LOT more money to spend on the minor sports IF he hadn't driven football into the ground-------and TWO consecutive TWO win seasons was actually below ground, considering the two teams we did manage to beat, while losing ALL FOUR of the games to the in state programs that were an afterthought until relatively recently.

NOW, any more questions, and why not TRY to dispute some of the FACTS in my posts, a lot more available, why do you guys just resort to baseless slander, the FACTS are there. We ended up in a pretty good place, thanks to obligating the athletic department to an enormous sum MORE than the CW renovations cost AND the SEC schools and networks bonanzas, why make it necessary to bring up the odious FACTS again?

But aren't you glad you brought it up again, now go to your seat in the corner.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Man, you must be a slow learner, I have explained it numerous time. To start with he ROBBED the football program of almost all of the money that FOOTBALL earned (AND the SEC contributed due to football, NOT basketball) and spent it on NON revenue sports (except men's basketball, which SHOULD have made even more money available for football and the minor sports) while maintaining football on a BARE MINIMUM budget.

After TEN YEARS of bare minimum support for football, recruiting budgets LESS than for SIX times the free rides in football, NOT counting the "Midnight Madness" basketball recruiting extravaganza which was about the same as football's recruiting budget, an operating budget for EIGHTY FIVE rides in a more expensive sport about the same as for FOURTEEN in basketball (how was that even possible?), Brooks starting at about $7M a year and ending at $9M a year after a great job for years considering HIS SUPPORT (AND giving part of that to Joker to keep him), with a "recruiting room" that was an incredible disgrace that they were STILL using (except for our best recruiter, Tee, that admitted he lied to recruits about our facilities AFTER he left, easy for him, a Thug U grad) after about 15 years AND after all the competition had a picture of it to make a lie of the common knowledge that UK was just a "basketball school", although with a GREAT fan base suffering in ignorance, our luckier than hell (and yes, sometimes better to be lucky than good) AD drove off about TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders, most of which haven't returned and a great portion of which never will. Even though the raw talent is in a new universe considering what Brooks had to work with, I expect us to need the 6,000 seats a year that got thrown away several times a year, although a LOT of former season ticket holders won't show up for a lot of the games..

So, repeating myself AGAIN for you, mitch, that insulted his clients, the "microwave fans" and probably rubbed it in by spending $156,000 on hanging some pictures on a wall somewhere instead of replacing the folding chairs AND projector AND putting carpet on the bare concrete floor of the recruiting "turnoff" with a SMALL part of that money probably had some of the bean counters notice TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders absent, maybe we should wake somebody up. Which coincided with the HUGE influx of money ($40,000,000 PLUS bowl revenue this year, MOST due to OTHER SEC teams that recognized the coming MONEY COW), the naming rights sale, the HUGE jump in contributions for the FOOTBALL CENTER (that the BB program already had for a decade) from football fans that swore on here they would NEVER contribute anything as long as mitch was in charge of spending it.

An obscene amount of money, mostly due to OTHER SEC ADs that weren't asleep at the wheel, and I still contend that while I am a BIG fan of all the other sports he would have had a LOT more money to spend on the minor sports IF he hadn't driven football into the ground-------and TWO consecutive TWO win seasons was actually below ground, considering the two teams we did manage to beat, while losing ALL FOUR of the games to the in state programs that were an afterthought until relatively recently.

NOW, any more questions, and why not TRY to dispute some of the FACTS in my posts, a lot more available, why do you guys just resort to baseless slander, the FACTS are there. We ended up in a pretty good place, thanks to obligating the athletic department to an enormous sum MORE than the CW renovations cost AND the SEC schools and networks bonanzas, why make it necessary to bring up the odious FACTS again?

But aren't you glad you brought it up again, now go to your seat in the corner.

And YOU are TOTALLY stupid if you don't see that MB is the the best AD this university has ever had...you can have all your "socalled "facts in the world and are still to dumb to see anything. You must have been CMN and Hagans jock scratcher...those are the FACTS !! You are too big a coward to confront MB on any of "so called" facts you keep dreaming up...if you dont have enough cojones to challenges MB why don't you ask the coaches who work him how they feel about him.

 

[jauk11]

And YOU are TOTALLY stupid if you don't see that MB is the the best AD this university has ever had...you can have all the facts in the world and are still to dumb to see anything. You must have been CMN and Hagans jock scratcher...those are the FACTS !!

The past few years since the TWO consecutive TWO win seasons, not a bad job-----but you ignore the crux of the situation, what choice was there after losing TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders and literally millions of dollars (attendance AND donations) AND with untold millions rolling in because of OTHER SEC teams athletic programs PROMOTING their football programs?

I didn't have the internet to follow things that closely OR the time to waste back then, but I don't see how ANY football support could be worse than his first TEN years here, especially while trying to overcome the effects of very damaging probation--------how about UK coming in 92nd in the nation in recruiting in 02, with one four star (alas, what did Yancy Reynolds do here?), ONE three star, a JC at that, and the other thirteen two stars, IF they were that high, some no stars. Meanwhile Bama, about the same penalties, BOUGHT two bowl trips (trips to Hawaii, not bowl eligible) and finished 30th with a FIVE star and FOUR four stars, more than we are getting now. The 03 class only in the 50s, with OVER half of the class from Kentucky, Woodson, six three stars and five two stars from Kentucky, a great year for Kentucky in state, can you imagine what our class this year would be like with TWELVE recruits from Kentucky? Transfer U's big cheating year that got them started had twelve from Florida, with just a kicker and a flameout from Kentucky IIRC. There wasn't ONE four star recruit in the whole state in Joker's first year, 2010. With UK's in state talent, tradition, facilities (until the wakeup call), ridiculous overemphasis on basketball that already had everything in the world, calling football fans names and doing whatever you wanted with their donations (Nebraska raised a lot of FOOTBALL only money by putting donation baskets at the football entrances on game day------designated for a football project ONLY), did you read the LONG thread on here by hundreds of football fans saying they would NEVER donate to football as long as mitch could do what he wanted with the money?

Nice to see you know how to spell FACTS, surprising since you never mention ANY of the very damaging ones in my posts, lol, instead you resort to name calling and stupid accusations.

So, how about those budget figures and other facts around the 09 and 10 seasons when things started to go to hell and Brooks gave up the ghost, why don't you ever mention the real FACTS that are pertinent here, I have already listed several of them for you.

 

[K_TIME]

The past few years since the TWO consecutive TWO win seasons, not a bad job-----but you ignore the crux of the situation, what choice was there after losing TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders and literally millions of dollars (attendance AND donations) AND with untold millions rolling in because of OTHER SEC teams athletic programs PROMOTING their football programs?

I didn't have the internet to follow things that closely OR the time to waste back then, but I don't see how ANY football support could be worse than his first TEN years here, especially while trying to overcome the effects of very damaging probation--------how about UK coming in 92nd in the nation in recruiting in 02, with one four star (alas, what did Yancy Reynolds do here?), ONE three star, a JC at that, and the other thirteen two stars, IF they were that high, some no stars. Meanwhile Bama, about the same penalties, BOUGHT two bowl trips (trips to Hawaii, not bowl eligible) and finished 30th with a FIVE star and FOUR four stars, more than we are getting now. The 03 class only in the 50s, with OVER half of the class from Kentucky, Woodson, six three stars and five two stars from Kentucky, a great year for Kentucky in state, can you imagine what our class this year would be like with TWELVE recruits from Kentucky? Transfer U's big cheating year that got them started had twelve from Florida, with just a kicker and a flameout from Kentucky IIRC. There wasn't ONE four star recruit in the whole state in Joker's first year, 2010. With UK's in state talent, tradition, facilities (until the wakeup call), ridiculous overemphasis on basketball that already had everything in the world, calling football fans names and doing whatever you wanted with their donations (Nebraska raised a lot of FOOTBALL only money by putting donation baskets at the football entrances on game day------designated for a football project ONLY), did you read the LONG thread on here by hundreds of football fans saying they would NEVER donate to football as long as mitch could do what he wanted with the money?

Nice to see you know how to spell FACTS, surprising since you never mention ANY of the very damaging ones in my posts, lol, instead you resort to name calling and stupid accusations.

So, how about those budget figures and other facts around the 09 and 10 seasons when things started to go to hell and Brooks gave up the ghost, why don't you ever mention the real FACTS that are pertinent here, I have already listed several of them for you.

People don't usually come to message boards to read paragraphs...a handful (or less) of nice concise comments would be fine.

 

[North Carolina Blue Wildcat]

Chief complaint is that he doesn’t make adjustments-keeps doing the same things over and over and expects a different result. He has the deer in the headlight look most of the time. His personal football IQ seems low, easy to understand why the team gets the same label.

 

[JC CATS]

Stoops has already received a couple of contract extensions.

he has been here several years, if he didn't get contract extensions, he 1, would be coaching without a contract and 2 Not able to recruit. Kids arent going to sign with a coach who has 3 years left on a contract

 

[JC CATS]

Unfortunately yes, but I don't ever remember a game where a team didn't have to punt and and I thought they could have scored 60-70 if BP wanted.

Think of Arkansas and calling the game early. Tha was the LOW POINT

 

[sluggercatfan]

Think of Arkansas and calling the game early. Tha was the LOW POINT

Did forget that one..ugly..

 

[RonEJones]

1. So if Stoops takes a step back in wins next year....he still has guaranteed money for 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023....it just doesn't make sense UK is on hook in his 7th year for 5 more years. The Stoops contract has always been completely one sided
2. You state is such a crazy high bar for UK coaches to win 7 games and not many have done it...
4 of the last 6 coaches at UK have had 7 win seasons and some in eras with 11 game schedules. (Brooks did it 4 times, Mumme, Morris and Claiborne).
3. I'd hope that in a coaches 6th year.....we'd not depend on recruiting to look at the longevity of the coaches remaining contract but instead at his accomplishments at the schools he's been at for 6 years.

Great points. Stoops has had some success but there are still glaring holes in his coaching, preparation and player development and still nothing to show he's special.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Great points. Stoops has had some success but there are still glaring holes in his coaching, preparation and player development and still nothing to show he's special.

Certainly not deserving of the contract he has... not by a long shot!

 

[jauk11]

People don't usually come to message boards to read paragraphs...a handful (or less) of nice concise comments would be fine.

Hard to do when it would take a LONG book to list all the atrocities, let alone try to describe them.

 

[Blue Decade]

This 2 and 10 stuff needs to stop. You are comparing the low point to Stoops' high point. It doesn't work that way. The norm for UK football has been 5 to 6 wins and yes 7 wins is better but not by the margins you are suggesting. We were always going to improve on the 2-10 season no matter what. We could have kept Joker and would have likely ended up winning atleast 5 games a year by now. I was one of Joker's loudest critics at the time and he clearly needed to go but even if we didn't get rid of him it would have gotten better than 2-10. Using that season as the baseline by which Stoops is judged is ridiculous.

And let's not kid ourselves about the schedule difference. This year's team wouldn't have won 7 games if we had to play a 11 win South Carolina or a 9 win Vandy team.

You don't want to hear about 2-10 because discussing actual improvement in our football program doesn't support your negative point of view about our coaching staff.

 

[K_TIME]

You don't want to hear about 2-10 because discussing actual improvement in our football program doesn't support your negative point of view about our coaching staff.

Why we get fixated on 2-10 is a bit misleading. That record is the absolute bottom UK has even done...to argue any coach better than 2-10 is somehow really accomplishing much is some of the lowest expectations you can have. Look at modern era coaches records:

- Claiborne 41-46-3 in 8 years at UK for a 45% winning clip (and his first year was 0-10-1)
- Curry 26-52 in 7 years at UK for a 32% winning clip
- Mumme 20-26 in 4 years at UK 43% winning clip
- Morris 9-14 in 2 years at UK 40% winning clip
- Brooks 39-47 in 7 years at UK 45% winning clip
- Joker 13-24 in 3 years at UK 35% winning clip
- Stoops is 26-36 in 5 years at UK 41% winning clip

Joker/Curry are the outliers ever to coach at UK. Both were abysmal coaches and their stats back that up. The rest of these coaches give you about the same outputs so far.

I still stand that Stoops/Joker/Brooks all have an extra 12 game schedule that results in one additional non conference game that is usually a total scrub that we stick in October that inflates their win % vs. those before them. But all in all...there is no reason for Stoops to have this nutty of a contract and Mitch is completely watering down the expectations within the contract that he's given out so far.

 

[jauk11]

Why we get fixated on 2-10 is a bit misleading. That record is the absolute bottom UK has even done...to argue any coach better than 2-10 is somehow really accomplishing much is some of the lowest expectations you can have. Look at modern era coaches records:

- Claiborne 41-46-3 in 8 years at UK for a 45% winning clip (and his first year was 0-10-1)
- Curry 26-52 in 7 years at UK for a 32% winning clip
- Mumme 20-26 in 4 years at UK 43% winning clip
- Morris 9-14 in 2 years at UK 40% winning clip
- Brooks 39-47 in 7 years at UK 45% winning clip
- Joker 13-24 in 3 years at UK 35% winning clip
- Stoops is 26-36 in 5 years at UK 41% winning clip

Joker/Curry are the outliers ever to coach at UK. Both were abysmal coaches and their stats back that up. The rest of these coaches give you about the same outputs so far.

I still stand that Stoops/Joker/Brooks all have an extra 12 game schedule that results in one additional non conference game that is usually a total scrub that we stick in October that inflates their win % vs. those before them. But all in all...there is no reason for Stoops to have this nutty of a contract and Mitch is completely watering down the expectations within the contract that he's given out so far.

Agree with a lot of your points BUT----

Curry took a GT (alma mater) team that he started off with TWO one win records and got to nine wins with them, ACC coach of the year. They also won a share of the NC with the seniors he recruited three years after he left.

He took a not very good Bama program and improved their record each of the three years he was there, only one regular season loss his last year, SEC COY AND Bobby Dodd National COY.
Here is one of the clips from his record there:

"After posting a 10–1 regular season record (the only blemish being a third loss in a row to Auburn), Curry's 1989 Crimson Tide squad shared the SEC title with Auburn and Tennessee—Alabama's first SEC title since 1981—and earned the berth in the 1990 Sugar Bowl, where they lost to the Miami Hurricanes, 33–25.[5] Curry was honored in 1989 as the SEC Coach of the Year and received the Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year Award.

Curry's three-year record of 26–10 gave him the highest winning percentage among Alabama coaches since Bear Bryant.[6] However, Curry had an 0–3 record against Auburn
After posting a 10–1 regular season record (the only blemish being a third loss in a row to Auburn), Curry's 1989 Crimson Tide squad shared the SEC title with Auburn and Tennessee—Alabama's first SEC title since 1981—and earned the berth in the 1990 Sugar Bowl, where they lost to the Miami Hurricanes, 33–25.[5] Curry was honored in 1989 as the SEC Coach of the Year and received the Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year Award.

Curry's three-year record of 26–10 gave him the highest winning percentage among Alabama coaches since Bear Bryant.[6] However, Curry had an 0–3 record against Auburn"


And, by the way, I think that was the period when Auburn was a national power for quite a while. And another huge coincidence, once again his seniors were on the team that won ANOTHER NC three years after he left Alabama. AND the bowl loss by 8 points was to the U when they were a VERY good program, I think.

There was a reason that Schnellenberger turned down his alma mater and went to a city school about to give up football, and there is a reason that UK is known as a coaches graveyard. Curry was pretty unhappy with the assistant coaches they made him hire, I guess mitch thought non support for football was a UK tradition-----and, really, I guess it was-----until the strike.

 

[K_TIME]

Agree with a lot of your points BUT----

Curry took a GT (alma mater) team that he started off with TWO one win records and got to nine wins with them, ACC coach of the year. They also won a share of the NC with the seniors he recruited three years after he left.

He took a not very good Bama program and improved their record each of the three years he was there, only one regular season loss his last year, SEC COY AND Bobby Dodd National COY.
Here is one of the clips from his record there:

"After posting a 10–1 regular season record (the only blemish being a third loss in a row to Auburn), Curry's 1989 Crimson Tide squad shared the SEC title with Auburn and Tennessee—Alabama's first SEC title since 1981—and earned the berth in the 1990 Sugar Bowl, where they lost to the Miami Hurricanes, 33–25.[5] Curry was honored in 1989 as the SEC Coach of the Year and received the Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year Award.

Curry's three-year record of 26–10 gave him the highest winning percentage among Alabama coaches since Bear Bryant.[6] However, Curry had an 0–3 record against Auburn
After posting a 10–1 regular season record (the only blemish being a third loss in a row to Auburn), Curry's 1989 Crimson Tide squad shared the SEC title with Auburn and Tennessee—Alabama's first SEC title since 1981—and earned the berth in the 1990 Sugar Bowl, where they lost to the Miami Hurricanes, 33–25.[5] Curry was honored in 1989 as the SEC Coach of the Year and received the Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year Award.

Curry's three-year record of 26–10 gave him the highest winning percentage among Alabama coaches since Bear Bryant.[6] However, Curry had an 0–3 record against Auburn"


And, by the way, I think that was the period when Auburn was a national power for quite a while. And another huge coincidence, once again his seniors were on the team that won ANOTHER NC three years after he left Alabama. AND the bowl loss by 8 points was to the U when they were a VERY good program, I think.

There was a reason that Schnellenberger turned down his alma mater and went to a city school about to give up football, and there is a reason that UK is known as a coaches graveyard. Curry was pretty unhappy with the assistant coaches they made him hire, I guess mitch thought non support for football was a UK tradition-----and, really, I guess it was-----until the strike.

If you want to defend Curry you can (and I don't remember if there were $$$ issues when trying to hire assistants in the 1990's), but he was really bad at UK. Only Joker was a worse coach in modern era. And no Bama fans were crying when he left for UK...very similar to the Tubby to Minnesota situation if you ask me. Great programs can hide alot of warts but you can't hide them at lesser programs and Curry was what he was at UK.

 

[sluggercatfan]

If you want to defend Curry you can (and I don't remember if there were $$$ issues when trying to hire assistants in the 1990's), but he was really bad at UK. Only Joker was a worse coach in modern era. And no Bama fans were crying when he left for UK...very similar to the Tubby to Minnesota situation if you ask me. Great programs can hide alot of warts but you can't hide them at lesser programs and Curry was what he was at UK.

Absolutely... talked to many, many Alabama fans at the game down there last year about Curry and they were more than tickled that UK took him off their hands so they didn't have to pay him a buyout... any coach who would recruit a player like Tim Couch and bring in an option offensive coordinator tells you all you need to know.

 

[jauk11]

If you want to defend Curry you can (and I don't remember if there were $$$ issues when trying to hire assistants in the 1990's), but he was really bad at UK. Only Joker was a worse coach in modern era. And no Bama fans were crying when he left for UK...very similar to the Tubby to Minnesota situation if you ask me. Great programs can hide alot of warts but you can't hide them at lesser programs and Curry was what he was at UK.

Just pointing out a few FACTS that are hard to argue with, Coaches can be great at schools that support them and dismal failures at UK. The story I read said they told him who he could hire for assistants at Kentucky, would that be a great surprise, didn't mitch make Brown the "Co-DC" in name only to save his buyout?

He took GT from consecutive one win seasons when he first got there to a 9 win season, had the best record at Bama since the Bear, lost ONE game his last year to an Auburn program that was riding high at the time, lost a fairly close bowl game to the U when they were rolling, was the ACC and SEC coach of the year AND was a dismal failure at UK.

The point of my post was that his records at the two schools says more about what lousy support UK has given football since FOREVER than it does about what a rotten coach he was. I still believe Brooks did an unbelievable job here with the support he got, finally gave up.

Also odd that Joker got hired by one of the best programs in the nation IMMEDIATELY and they made him the RECRUITING COODINATOR, you know, the same guy that didn't even bother to talk to four stars while he was here (and probably saved a lot of wasted time), AND his two years there he brought in the #4 and #8 ranked classes in the NATION.

That is what I am talking about. If Auburn hadn't been playing at a high level when he was at Bama he probably wouldn't have gotten mad and took the UK job.

I have read stories that insinuated the HC at Clemson that has a NC to his credit isn't really that great a coach, just a great PR man.

 

[jauk11]

Hard to do when it would take a LONG book to list all the atrocities, let alone try to describe them.

Also REALLY weird that when I do go through SOME of the LONG list of FACTS about the support UK football got for over a decade (with a predictable outcome) the critics can't find ONE of the facts to dispute, lol..

 

[K_TIME]

Just pointing out a few FACTS that are hard to argue with, Coaches can be great at schools that support them and dismal failures at UK. The story I read said they told him who he could hire for assistants at Kentucky, would that be a great surprise, didn't mitch make Brown the "Co-DC" in name only to save his buyout?

He took GT from consecutive one win seasons when he first got there to a 9 win season, had the best record at Bama since the Bear, lost ONE game his last year to an Auburn program that was riding high at the time, lost a fairly close bowl game to the U when they were rolling, was the ACC and SEC coach of the year AND was a dismal failure at UK.

The point of my post was that his records at the two schools says more about what lousy support UK has given football since FOREVER than it does about what a rotten coach he was. I still believe Brooks did an unbelievable job here with the support he got, finally gave up.

Also odd that Joker got hired by one of the best programs in the nation IMMEDIATELY and they made him the RECRUITING COODINATOR, you know, the same guy that didn't even bother to talk to four stars while he was here (and probably saved a lot of wasted time), AND his two years there he brought in the #4 and #8 ranked classes in the NATION.

That is what I am talking about. If Auburn hadn't been playing at a high level when he was at Bama he probably wouldn't have gotten mad and took the UK job.

I have read stories that insinuated the HC at Clemson that has a NC to his credit isn't really that great a coach, just a great PR man.

So you are now not just defending Bill Curry's job at UK but also Joker was a good assistant coach at Florida...and UK was to blame for the failure of these two?

I can only just say there are an extreme small factions of UK fans that think both of these two coaches were not bad and UK's overall atmosphere caused a large percent of their failures.

 

[sluggercatfan]

So you are now not just defending Bill Curry's job at UK but also Joker was a good assistant coach at Florida...and UK was to blame for the failure of these two?

I can only just say there are an extreme small factions of UK fans that think both of these two coaches were not bad and UK's overall atmosphere caused a large percent of their failures.

Wow! Pretty lame, huh?

 

[jauk11]

So you are now not just defending Bill Curry's job at UK but also Joker was a good assistant coach at Florida...and UK was to blame for the failure of these two?

I can only just say there are an extreme small factions of UK fans that think both of these two coaches were not bad and UK's overall atmosphere caused a large percent of their failures.

Right.

Joker took two VERY late three stars, one turned down by Transfer U and one turned down by Morris, a JC two star, and a FOUR POINT NINE legacy recruit and turned them into one of the best receiving corp in not just the SEC but the whole US-------TWO of them with LONG NFL careers, ONE (maybe the best I thought) that had just made starter status when his career was cut short by injury, and a 4.9 that might have made it except for injuries.

Did you read that, a FOUR POINT NINE. Never forget his one block on the MUCH bigger and MUCH more highly rated LSU DB OR his one TD catch, both still vivid in my mind.

Then again, he WAS Brooks best recruiter, AND Brooks gave him part of his salary to keep him when some team name Bama came sniffing around.

NOT a very good HC, no one said that, but then who in hell would be after Brooks gave up, how did Claiborne do here, how did Curry do here, LACK OF SUPPORT drove UK's program underground-------

And now our AD is a hero to some, when he had NO CHOICE in what he did AFTER losing 20,000 season ticket holders AND with $40,000,000 bonuses from the SEC to throw around due to OTHER SEC ADs seeing what was in plain sight.

 

[jauk11]

So you are now not just defending Bill Curry's job at UK but also Joker was a good assistant coach at Florida...and UK was to blame for the failure of these two?

I can only just say there are an extreme small factions of UK fans that think both of these two coaches were not bad and UK's overall atmosphere caused a large percent of their failures.

I didn't follow Joker at Florida, but Joker was fired at Florida because of a recruiting scandal, whether he was set up or not. Fourth and eighth in the NATION in recruiting is not a bad record as the RC either.

I appreciate your posts and don't like arguing with you compared with some and their agenda, but facts are facts, once again.

 

[Blue Decade]

Why we get fixated on 2-10 is a bit misleading. That record is the absolute bottom UK has even done...to argue any coach better than 2-10 is somehow really accomplishing much is some of the lowest expectations you can have. Look at modern era coaches records:

- Claiborne 41-46-3 in 8 years at UK for a 45% winning clip (and his first year was 0-10-1)
- Curry 26-52 in 7 years at UK for a 32% winning clip
- Mumme 20-26 in 4 years at UK 43% winning clip
- Morris 9-14 in 2 years at UK 40% winning clip
- Brooks 39-47 in 7 years at UK 45% winning clip
- Joker 13-24 in 3 years at UK 35% winning clip
- Stoops is 26-36 in 5 years at UK 41% winning clip

Joker/Curry are the outliers ever to coach at UK. Both were abysmal coaches and their stats back that up. The rest of these coaches give you about the same outputs so far.

I still stand that Stoops/Joker/Brooks all have an extra 12 game schedule that results in one additional non conference game that is usually a total scrub that we stick in October that inflates their win % vs. those before them. But all in all...there is no reason for Stoops to have this nutty of a contract and Mitch is completely watering down the expectations within the contract that he's given out so far.

I’m sorry. I am not “fixated”. Get a grip. 7-6 is an improvement over 2-10. Get out your calculator. I never suggested 7-6 is the Holy Grail.

 

[msnmsn]

On one hand, I’m excited about the improved roster. This upcoming season will undoubtedly be the most talented roster in my adult life.

jesarat : On the other hand, I hope to see some of the egregious coaching mistakes mitigated. Examples; Florida, U6, Vandy last year. Also, I hate how we never come out ready to play. Seemed like we always came out flat, dug a hole, then fought back. Would love to see this resolved.

A lot of opportunity this upcoming season

 

[Deeeefense]

Stoops/Joker/Brooks all have an extra 12 game schedule that results in one additional non conference game that is usually a total scrub that we stick in October that inflates their win % vs. those before them.

A lot of good points K, but one thing I would point out is that in some past years we only played 6 conference games in the 11 game schedule. For instance in 1984 we were 9-3 but we played 5 out of conference opponents and only one of them would be considered what we call P5 team by today's standards and that was a bad Indiana team.