Has Cal really reverted back to rock fights since Bradshaw came back?

[ukcatz12]

I've seen a lot of people here claim is Cal reverting to getting back into rock fights. So what does the actual data say?

Pre-Bradshaw UK was 61st in the country in tempo and 3rd in offensive efficiency. Since Bradshaw has started to play the tempo ranking has actually increased by quite a bit. UK is now 35th in tempo and 13th in offensive efficiency. Most of the offensive efficiency decrease can be attributed to the overall awful performance against UNCW. Offensive efficiency will also decrease a bit as Dilly and Reed's 3P% come back down to earth. Reed was shooting over 60% on the year at one point, which just isn't sustainable. So the offense has gotten a little less efficient, due to a few factors, but the tempo has increased by a good bit.

So the rock fight narrative doesn't seem to be accurate. We're actually playing faster now than we were before Bradshaw.

 

[Boyd94]

What's the tempo of the last 10 minutes of the game?

 

[HagginHall1999]

What's the tempo of the last 10 minutes of the game?

We scored 20 points the last 10 mins of game yesterday.

 

[wildcatglenn]

This was my fear. Its too early to tell, but when Onyenso gets back we'll get a better look

 

[LineSkiCat14]

No lol. (I know you're being facetious though)

He's playing Bradshaw because we need a big if we want to go anywhere in March. And Bradshaw has looked DAMN good at times in just two games.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

I've seen a lot of people here claim is Cal reverting to getting back into rock fights. So what does the actual data say?

Pre-Bradshaw UK was 61st in the country in tempo and 3rd in offensive efficiency. Since Bradshaw has started to play the tempo ranking has actually increased by quite a bit. UK is now 35th in tempo and 13th in offensive efficiency. Most of the offensive efficiency decrease can be attributed to the overall awful performance against UNCW. Offensive efficiency will also decrease a bit as Dilly and Reed's 3P% come back down to earth. Reed was shooting over 60% on the year at one point, which just isn't sustainable. So the offense has gotten a little less efficient, due to a few factors, but the tempo has increased by a good bit.

So the rock fight narrative doesn't seem to be accurate. We're actually playing faster now than we were before Bradshaw.

Don’t go using facts against a good ole Cal hate.

All facts will do is make them dig harder for their hate.

 

[gbl97]

Eliminate the 12 long 2s, and the Penn game was never in doubt.

 

[ukcatz12]

Eliminate the 12 long 2s, and the Penn game was never in doubt.

We took a grand total of two more long 2s and one fewer 3 on seven more shot attempts against Penn than we did against Miami. The offense between those two games were extremely similar.

 

[cats2010]

Don’t go using facts against a good ole Cal hate.

All facts will do is make them dig harder for their hate.

Direct quote from your hero.

“This is going to be interesting, us figuring this out, because you’re exactly right. I have two teams: I have a small team and now I have a big team.

And then when do they play? I went today to the grind it out”

 

[Skyguyb27]

Direct quote from your hero.

“This is going to be interesting, us figuring this out, because you’re exactly right. I have two teams: I have a small team and now I have a big team.

And then when do they play? I went today to the grind it out”

Darn those facts!

 

[uk78]

If having twin towers wins every single game moving forward I am all for it. The point is what it takes to win. What also is clear is that Cal historically often loses in the latter part of a game when we have a lead and he takes the air out of the ball.

Watching our current team (as often with past Cal teams) our best offense is when we are running but not as a crazy pace where lay-ups are missed or unforced turnovers happened because of rushed passes.

Where we have seen this current's teams weakness, or somehow its a miracle where every team we face becomes the greatest 3 point shooters, is on defense. We have to have a big guy who can block or change interior shots and rebound to eliminate second chance opportunities. But, clearly on offense this becomes a problem when that same interior player becomes the focus.

 

[Mike-McD]

I've seen a lot of people here claim is Cal reverting to getting back into rock fights. So what does the actual data say?

Pre-Bradshaw UK was 61st in the country in tempo and 3rd in offensive efficiency. Since Bradshaw has started to play the tempo ranking has actually increased by quite a bit. UK is now 35th in tempo and 13th in offensive efficiency. Most of the offensive efficiency decrease can be attributed to the overall awful performance against UNCW. Offensive efficiency will also decrease a bit as Dilly and Reed's 3P% come back down to earth. Reed was shooting over 60% on the year at one point, which just isn't sustainable. So the offense has gotten a little less efficient, due to a few factors, but the tempo has increased by a good bit.

So the rock fight narrative doesn't seem to be accurate. We're actually playing faster now than we were before Bradshaw.

Tempo "is one of the most misleading statistics in basketball"

Offensive efficiency "is one of the most misleading statistics in basketball"

Wow stating "facts" is really easy!

 

[bbncal02]

We scored 20 points the last 10 mins of game yesterday.

Yeah, Saturday was MUCH better than UNCW. That game was terrible on both sides of the ball

 

[BlueBomb]

Sometimes, stats are misleading. All I know is this: I have two eyes, and I can see. And it's obvious the team is playing differently now than they were before. That may turn out to be a good thing in the long run, given we've got a big guy that we must incorporate into the offense. So, I'm not making a judgement.

But, sometimes the 'ol "eyeball test" is better than stats. Just sayin'

 

[bbncal02]

Sometimes, stats are misleading. All I know is this: I have two eyes, and I can see. And it's obvious the team is playing differently now than they were before. That may turn out to be a good thing in the long run, given we've got a big guy that we must incorporate into the offense. So, I'm not making a judgement.

But, sometimes the 'ol "eyeball test" is better than stats. Just sayin'

First half was pretty crappy. Second half was much better eye test wise.

 

[Mike-McD]

Sometimes, stats are misleading. All I know is this: I have two eyes, and I can see. And it's obvious the team is playing differently now than they were before. That may turn out to be a good thing in the long run, given we've got a big guy that we must incorporate into the offense. So, I'm not making a judgement.

But, sometimes the 'ol "eyeball test" is better than stats. Just sayin'

The same people scoffing at the "+-" stat when applied to Shep are now spewing offensive efficiency and tempo as a way to prop up Cal. The agenda is so obvious.

That "misleading" +- stat thingy is because some anonymous idiot on Reddit wrote a short post about that, and he got dragged in the comments, but now all the Shep haters are using his stupid "article" as their baseline for justifying Shep not starting.

 

[UKortho]

The same people scoffing at the "+-" stat when applied to Shep are now spewing offensive efficiency and tempo as a way to prop up Cal. The agenda is so obvious.

That "misleading" +- stat thingy is because some anonymous idiot on Reddit wrote a short post about that, and he got dragged in the comments, but now all the Shep haters are using his stupid "article" as their baseline for justifying Shep not starting.

I am as anti Cal as they come. But, I am a believer in the advanced stats. Sheps advanced stats are off the charts good.

 

[thedahc]

Direct quote from your hero.

“This is going to be interesting, us figuring this out, because you’re exactly right. I have two teams: I have a small team and now I have a big team.

And then when do they play? I went today to the grind it out”

What about the actual factual tempo #'s? Any thoughts on those or are you just gonna use your feelings?

 

[thedahc]

The same people scoffing at the "+-" stat when applied to Shep are now spewing offensive efficiency and tempo as a way to prop up Cal. The agenda is so obvious.

That "misleading" +- stat thingy is because some anonymous idiot on Reddit wrote a short post about that, and he got dragged in the comments, but now all the Shep haters are using his stupid "article" as their baseline for justifying Shep not starting.

I'm a believer in Reed's +/- and the tempo stat.

Both are true.

We have been better with Reed in the game and our tempo is not down since Bradshaw came back.

Do you think both are true? Because the stats say they are.

 

[CatsFanIL]

I am as anti Cal as they come. But, I am a believer in the advanced stats. Sheps advanced stats are off the charts good.

There's literally thousands of professional experts employed by athletic organizations across the world that do nothing but crunch numbers and provide in-depth analytics. I mean, stats matter. Variables matter. But long gone are the days of "ah screw it, let's go for it here on 4th down" - nope, analytics baby!

Like when everyone fell in love with the GSW chucking up a bunch of 3s. First off, they had the 2 best shooters in the NBA, so it wasn't simply just dudes chucking 3s, it was the RIGHT dudes chucking 3s. Second, they led the NBA in paint-touches. So there was a systematic approach to what they were doing. They were top 5 in post-ups, but nobody cares about that because it's not as glamarous as Steph chucking a 3.

 

[cats2010]

What about the actual factual tempo #'s? Any thoughts on those or are you just gonna use your feelings?

I didn’t use any feelings. I used a direct quote from cal where he stated he opted for a grind it out method style of play. If you have any issues with his statement then call into the show tonight and offer up these tempo numbers and rebute his statement.

 

[UKortho]

There's literally thousands of professional experts employed by athletic organizations across the world that do nothing but crunch numbers and provide in-depth analytics. I mean, stats matter. Variables matter. But long gone are the days of "ah screw it, let's go for it here on 4th down" - nope, analytics baby!

Like when everyone fell in love with the GSW chucking up a bunch of 3s. First off, they had the 2 best shooters in the NBA, so it wasn't simply just dudes chucking 3s, it was the RIGHT dudes chucking 3s. Second, they led the NBA in paint-touches. So there was a systematic approach to what they were doing. They were top 5 in post-ups, but nobody cares about that because it's not as glamarous as Steph chucking a 3.

Well put.

 

[thedahc]

I didn’t use any feelings. I used a direct quote from cal where he stated he opted for a grind it out method style of play. If you have any issues with his statement then call into the show tonight and offer up these tempo numbers and rebute his statement.

Facts>feelings. Even Cal's

 

[NorfolkNWaypal]

I'm a believer in Reed's +/- and the tempo stat.

Both are true.

We have been better with Reed in the game and our tempo is not down since Bradshaw came back.

Do you think both are true? Because the stats say they are.

You make a good point, but isn't it even a little concerning to you that Cal acknowledged that he went to the "grind it out" strategy?

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

The Plow-Cow!

 

[WeWant9]

Sometimes, stats are misleading. All I know is this: I have two eyes, and I can see. And it's obvious the team is playing differently now than they were before. That may turn out to be a good thing in the long run, given we've got a big guy that we must incorporate into the offense. So, I'm not making a judgement.

But, sometimes the 'ol "eyeball test" is better than stats. Just sayin'

I feel the same as you on it. The flow was different the last two games, but that is probably not to surprising as we added in Bradshaw. It’ll take some time to incorporate him.

If/when either of Ugo and Z play, it’ll change the flow once again. But we’re going need the size as the season progresses into SEC play.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Sometimes, stats are misleading. All I know is this: I have two eyes, and I can see. And it's obvious the team is playing differently now than they were before. That may turn out to be a good thing in the long run, given we've got a big guy that we must incorporate into the offense. So, I'm not making a judgement.

But, sometimes the 'ol "eyeball test" is better than stats. Just sayin'

As long as we are taking 20-25 threes per game I'm happy. I get taking 30-35 is fun but it is also a good way to shoot yourself out of a NCAAT game.

Maybe I'm snake bit but 4-32 vs WVa, 7-36 vs UNC, are a couple of games that haunt me.

 

[Jamal Mercer]

I’m not sure Cal slappys watch the games.

They definitely don’t use the eyeball test.

 

[UKortho]

As long as we are taking 20-25 threes per game I'm happy. I get taking 30-35 is fun but it is also a good way to shoot yourself out of a NCAAT game.

Maybe I'm snake bit but 4-32 vs WVa, 7-36 vs UNC, are a couple of games that haunt me.

The long two’s are an area to watch also.

 

[ukcatz12]

The long two’s are an area to watch also.

The shot charts from the Miami and Penn game are extremely similar. We took seven more shots against Penn, two more long 2s, and one fewer 3. And there were a few times where Dilly was acting like a freshman and got lost on the court and just threw up a long 2.

People keep saying things looked different, but all the data points say the end results weren’t different. The tempo has increased and the shot selection is almost identical. The “we took a lot of extra long 2s” simply isn’t true.

I guess people are getting caught up with the fact that some of those shots at the rim are Bradshaw post ups instead of DJ layups or something?

But as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, 35 3s a game isn’t a sustainable way to win. And look at Dilly and Reed’s 3P% this year. Reed was at 60% earlier in the year. Hitting shots at that clip isn’t sustainable either and those percentages will come down. And when they do we need a balanced attack.

 

[NorfolkNWaypal]

The shot charts from the Miami and Penn game are extremely similar. We took seven more shots against Penn, two more long 2s, and one fewer 3. And there were a few times where Dilly was acting like a freshman and got lost on the court and just threw up a shot.

People keep saying things looked different, but all the data points say the end results weren’t different. The tempo has increased and the shot selection is almost identical. The “we took a lot of extra long 2s” simply isn’t true.

I guess people are getting caught up with the fact that some of those shots at the rim are Bradshaw post ups instead of DJ layups or something?

But as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, 35 3s a game isn’t a sustainable way to win. And look at Dilly and Reed’s 3P% this year. Reed was at 60% earlier in the year. Hitting shots at that clip isn’t sustainable either and those percentages will come down. And when they do we need a balanced attack.

We probably need a balanced attack, try to run but be willing and able to go inside when we can take advantage and when the guys need a breather or when the other team recovers. We need a reliable scorer. Shep seems like he could be that guy, and certainly Mitchell and even Bradshaw could fill that role.

I suspect a versatile team, more like a swiss army knife instead of a one trick pony of all-in threes all day, would give us the best chance to win a title.

 

[ukcatz12]

The same people scoffing at the "+-" stat when applied to Shep are now spewing offensive efficiency and tempo as a way to prop up Cal. The agenda is so obvious.

That "misleading" +- stat thingy is because some anonymous idiot on Reddit wrote a short post about that, and he got dragged in the comments, but now all the Shep haters are using his stupid "article" as their baseline for justifying Shep not starting.

+/- is way more misleading than detailed offensive efficiency stats. The advanced efficiency stats have basically reinvented the game of basketball at the NBA level.

But either way, you're really misinterpreting the point people were making in regards to Reed's +/-. First of all, a lot of people act like there are Reed haters on this board. There aren't. We all love the kid and want him to succeed. It's clear he's got a ton of intangibles and does things to help the team that don't show up on the stat line, hence his high +/-.

What we didn't want to do was use Reed's high +/- as justification for giving him 35 minutes a game at the expense of other guys like DJ. A lot of people on this board watched three games, looked at +/- stats, and basically wanted to throw DJ in the trash so Reed could run the team the whole game. And the UNC-W game shows just how important DJ is to this team.

 

[ukcatz12]

You make a good point, but isn't it even a little concerning to you that Cal acknowledged that he went to the "grind it out" strategy?

I'm almost positive he's referring to doing that the last few minutes of the game. Which is what you do when you have a double digit lead with 2 or so minutes left in the game. Literally every coach does that.

 

[ukcatz12]

First off, they had the 2 best shooters in the NBA, so it wasn't simply just dudes chucking 3s, it was the RIGHT dudes chucking 3s.

A lot of people who criticized the offense the last few years would be wise to read this. The offense you can run is highly dependent on the actual players you have to run it.

 

[STL_Cat]

Don’t go using facts against a good ole Cal hate.

All facts will do is make them dig harder for their hate.

How bout you tell us again how the 2022-2023 team “overachieved”

😅😂🤣

 

[Mike-D]

As long as we are taking 20-25 threes per game I'm happy. I get taking 30-35 is fun but it is also a good way to shoot yourself out of a NCAAT game.

Maybe I'm snake bit but 4-32 vs WVa, 7-36 vs UNC, are a couple of games that haunt me.

I'm going with 25-30. Give me at least 5 more a game from the right dudes. And stop passing up wide open 3's to take a long 2 with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. A long 2 should be taken last with the shot clock about to expire. You can always get that shot.

 

[Rockfly78]

The shot charts from the Miami and Penn game are extremely similar. We took seven more shots against Penn, two more long 2s, and one fewer 3. And there were a few times where Dilly was acting like a freshman and got lost on the court and just threw up a long 2.

People keep saying things looked different, but all the data points say the end results weren’t different. The tempo has increased and the shot selection is almost identical. The “we took a lot of extra long 2s” simply isn’t true.

I guess people are getting caught up with the fact that some of those shots at the rim are Bradshaw post ups instead of DJ layups or something?

But as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, 35 3s a game isn’t a sustainable way to win. And look at Dilly and Reed’s 3P% this year. Reed was at 60% earlier in the year. Hitting shots at that clip isn’t sustainable either and those percentages will come down. And when they do we need a balanced attack.

The reason the Miami game and the Penn game felt and looked so different is because we got out in transition more in the Miami game. In order to play the way the fans want they will have to play better defense. Kentucky has to force turnovers and missed shots and get steals. Our defense will dictate our offense.

Defense is king.

 

[YardCat]

I've seen a lot of people here claim is Cal reverting to getting back into rock fights. So what does the actual data say?

Pre-Bradshaw UK was 61st in the country in tempo and 3rd in offensive efficiency. Since Bradshaw has started to play the tempo ranking has actually increased by quite a bit. UK is now 35th in tempo and 13th in offensive efficiency. Most of the offensive efficiency decrease can be attributed to the overall awful performance against UNCW. Offensive efficiency will also decrease a bit as Dilly and Reed's 3P% come back down to earth. Reed was shooting over 60% on the year at one point, which just isn't sustainable. So the offense has gotten a little less efficient, due to a few factors, but the tempo has increased by a good bit.

So the rock fight narrative doesn't seem to be accurate. We're actually playing faster now than we were before Bradshaw.

I would love to see the tempo of the last 5 minutes of any game where the game is close

 

[YardCat]

I'm almost positive he's referring to doing that the last few minutes of the game. Which is what you do when you have a double digit lead with 2 or so minutes left in the game. Literally every coach does that.

Problem is he does it all the time unless we are playing cupcakes. He loves to squeeze the ball late in the game. He has done this forever, it cost him a championship in Memphis plus the shot free throws like Shaq.

 

[ukcatz12]

I would love to see the tempo of the last 5 minutes of any game where the game is close

It's really funny how the goalposts just constantly move so the negative talking points can continue. The big complaint after the Penn game is we're back to shooting long 2s (we aren't) and back to playing grind it out (we aren't). So now the goal posts are moving to end of game tempo.

Can't we just enjoy a team that is clearly better than any we've had in quite a while?