Gonzocat90 vs. drcats2013

[DraftCat]

Draft Bracket - http://challonge.com/vgm0ajvi

gonzocat90 - Kawhi Leonard, Draymond Green, Chris Paul, Avery Bradley, Markelle Fultz, Steven Adams, Brook Lopez, Gary Harris, Robert Covington, Ricky Rubio, Lauri Markkanen, Marcus Morris

drcats2013 - Jimmy Butler, Damian Lillard, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Love, Al Horford, Jamal Murray, Dennis Schroeder, Carmelo Anthony, Enes Kanter, Lou Williams, Ryan Anderson, Zach Collins

This is the playoffs who has the best team and will win the most championships over a 7 year period. Please vote. This round ends 8/15 at 9:00 PM Est.

 

[WildMoon]

I have Gonzo wining this going away.

Kawhi is at perfect age, next 7 years will be in discussion as best player. Not to mention, DG is still young, while CP is old and probably become useless...you can say about the same with Kevin Love, Al Horford. Not to mention, CP is definitely better pick than max-contract-but-haven't-done-anything Andrew Wiggins.

 

[drcats2013]

I have Gonzo wining this going away.

Kawhi is at perfect age, next 7 years will be in discussion as best player. Not to mention, DG is still young, while CP is old and probably become useless...you can say about the same with Kevin Love, Al Horford. Not to mention, CP is definitely better pick than max-contract-but-haven't-done-anything Andrew Wiggins.

You mean 21 year old Wiggins averaging 23.6 a game? Sure he has a long way to go defensively, but he's not garbage as you make him to be. Also; obviously kawai is better than any player I have, but I picked 12th in the draft whereas he had a top 5 pick so clearly he has the better player. I think my young core of Wiggins, Butler, Lillard, Murray, And Schroeder is tough to beat, not to mention a young Zach Collins who could be a star, to go along with Horford and Love who should still be great AT LEAST 3-4 more years. I like my team, and hopefully the voters see it the same way.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I'll make more elaborate cases for my team as the discussion goes forward, but let me start with the Chris Paul stuff.

He's barely 32. He has never been a Westbrook/Rose/Wall who relies on his freakish athleticism. I posted in the draft thread about how Stockton, Kidd and Nash all played at or near career average levels well into their late 30s.

As it stands today, Chris Paul is one of the 10-12 best players in the league. He hasn't slowed down one bit. He hasn't been injured.

He's still first team all defense. He still finishes top 3 in assists. He shoots over 40% from deep. Those things are all going to continue. Kidd and Stockton went to the Finals in their late 30s playing that style.


And that's all dealing with 5-6 years from now. My team could win 3-4 rings before CP3 even starts to slow down.

If the contest is "who wins the most in the next seven years" and I get 3-4 of the first 5, that makes it awfully hard to beat me.

Not to mention I have Markelle Fultz behind him. You won't find anyone who thinks that guy is a bust. If I replace "old" Paul with the next James Harden or DWade with a jumper, I'm just as dangerous.


On a less specific note, I'm far and away the best defensive team in the league. For all the talk about the Warriors' dominance due to being an offensive juggernaut, what sets them apart has been historic defensive play.

 

[UKcats1988]

Picked gonzo but I don't see the need for 2 centers like Lopez and Adams on the same roster. Most teams are going small so not sure where Lopez fits in considering Draymond would be best at the 5 in closing lineups. Love Kawhi obviously, having Cp3 will lose votes but he's a top 3 point guard in the NBA. Gary Harris, Fultz and Covington were all really nice picks.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Picked gonzo but I don't see the need for 2 centers like Lopez and Adams on the same roster. Most teams are going small so not sure where Lopez fits in considering Draymond would be best at the 5 in closing lineups. Love Kawhi obviously, having Cp3 will lose votes but he's a top 3 point guard in the NBA. Gary Harris, Fultz and Covington were all really nice picks.

Adams is the defensive/role player/toughness guy.

Lopez is one of the best post scorers in the league (21 per), made 1.5 threes per game and blocked 1.7 shots per.

They give me depth at rim protection and two different skill sets aside from that.

Or I can go Draymond at the five with my version of Golden State's lineup of death.

 

[UKcats1988]

Adams is the defensive/role player/toughness guy.

Lopez is one of the best post scorers in the league (21 per), made 1.5 threes per game and blocked 1.7 shots per.

They give me depth at rim protection and two different skill sets aside from that.

Or I can go Draymond at the five with my version of Golden State's lineup of death.

I love Adams, watched every okc game the past 2-3 years. Still don't like having both on the same roster. I'd try to put Draymond at the 5 as much as possible, especially the last 4-5 minutes. You've got a nice team though. One of the 2-3 best in it.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I love Adams, watched every okc game the past 2-3 years. Still don't like having both on the same roster. I'd try to put Draymond at the 5 as much as possible, especially the last 4-5 minutes. You've got a nice team though. One of the 2-3 best in it.

I don't understand why having two players with different skill sets on the same roster is a bad fit. unless you hate them both and think I'm weak at center I don't follow.

 

[WildMoon]

I love Adams, watched every okc game the past 2-3 years. Still don't like having both on the same roster. I'd try to put Draymond at the 5 as much as possible, especially the last 4-5 minutes. You've got a nice team though. One of the 2-3 best in it.

Not sure I follow this either. You got 12 players... draymond can't really play 5 full time anyways. Just because it works on some team doesn't mean it works for everyone. A. Davis torched golden state even double teamed with Draymond.

While draymond is excellent. he isn't going to dominate against elite level center. Adam is feisty. I think he is okay.

 

[UKcats1988]

I don't understand why having two players with different skill sets on the same roster is a bad fit. unless you hate them both and think I'm weak at center I don't follow.

I don't think picking Lopez was a good move, that's probably my only gripe with your team. I don't see where he gets minutes on this team. I'm not a fan of Lopez. I'm not big on back to the basket bigs who can't switch out on screens plus he's a mediocre rebounder. Neither he or Adams can play the 4 in today's NBA so I guess I'm just not sure where he fits in.

 

[UKcats1988]

Not sure I follow this either. You got 12 players... draymond can't really play 5 full time anyways. Just because it works on some team doesn't mean it works for everyone. A. Davis torched golden state even double teamed with Draymond.

While draymond is excellent. he isn't going to dominate against elite level center. Adam is feisty. I think he is okay.

I wouldn't play Green full time at the 5, I'd put him there to close most games or when you need a boost. I guess I'm just not big on bigs like Lopez in today's NBA. Adams is fine, I'm a fan of his. He defends well, is a great screener and roll man and pretty athletic.

 

[UKcats1988]

I have gonzo winning this by a big margin btw, I guess I'm nitpicking with Lopez but this isn't really close.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I don't think picking Lopez was a good move, that's probably my only gripe with your team. I don't see where he gets minutes on this team. I'm not a fan of Lopez. I'm not big on back to the basket bigs who can't switch out on screens plus he's a mediocre rebounder. Neither he or Adams can play the 4 in today's NBA so I guess I'm just not sure where he fits in.

I get you now. I guess I wanted something to counter every approach. I had scoring and defense at every level except inside, so I added Lopez. Plus he's a deep threat and a shot blocker.

He doesn't rebound like a 7 footer should, and we won't be switching him onto the ball handler on screens, but everyone else can switch all positions and he's a great rim protector.

Basically I was trying to check all my boxes. Plus he was a great value toward the end of the sixth round. A 20+ scorer with nearly 2 blocks that makes threes and has been a franchise cornerstone is a nice piece.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Be interested to hear from the nearly 50-50 split that picked the other way.

Wonder how many of those votes might potentially face the winner next round?

 

[drcats2013]

Be interested to hear from the nearly 50-50 split that picked the other way.

Wonder how many of those votes might potentially face the winner next round?

Are you implying that your team is exponentially better than mine? I beg to differ. I admit you do have a good team, but not great. You have the better star player (due to draft order) but I'll take my depth any day of the week.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Are you implying that your team is exponentially better than mine? I beg to differ. I admit you do have a good team, but not great. You have the better star player (due to draft order) but I'll take my depth any day of the week.

I'm implying that it's odd for a vote to be close and there to be no dissenting discussion in the thread.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

I'm implying that it's odd for a vote to be close and there to be no dissenting discussion in the thread.

I hate Draymond Green. I think your front court is a tad weak in general. But he picked Carmelo Anthony so it was close.

 

[gossie21]

I like drcats 1st 3 picks better than Gonzo's 1st 3 picks, especially when factoring in draft order. After that, though, I think the teams tilt in Gonzo's favor.

I wouldn't enjoy cheering for Gonzo's team. I find both Draymond and CP3 to be obnoxious players on the court, even if they are both very talented.

 

[Catzman]

I chose Gonzo not just because I thought his team was better, but everything he used to describe his team is pretty much how I broke it down in my head too. One of the best point guards in the game, backed up by a soon to be one of the other best guards in the game. Kawhi and Draymond are both prime centerpieces that also aren't these huge "need to put up 30 points to be effective" players that can play alongside a Fultz and Paul and not worry about getting their points, and do the little things that make you a champ.

Butler, Lillard and Wiggins are amazing players, and I think Kanter is on the fast track to be one of the best big men in the game in a few years if a few more things can go his way, but I just don't see the match up in his favor.

 

[Aike]

Be interested to hear from the nearly 50-50 split that picked the other way.

Wonder how many of those votes might potentially face the winner next round?

I think my BBN team is the only one who can face you next round. And I haven't voted so...

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Lol these posts are pretty funny. I think Gonzo has this one. Really like his team. Edit: why the hell can I not vote?

 

[gossie21]

I think my BBN team is the only one who can face you next round. And I haven't voted so...

It's an impressive level of paranoia. I voted for Gonzo, but it's not like his team is a sure-fire winner here.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Nevermind, my vote went through.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I like drcats 1st 3 picks better than Gonzo's 1st 3 picks, especially when factoring in draft order. After that, though, I think the teams tilt in Gonzo's favor.

I wouldn't enjoy cheering for Gonzo's team. I find both Draymond and CP3 to be obnoxious players on the court, even if they are both very talented.

We aren't picking favorites. We're picking best. Are Draymond and Chris Paul elite players?

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

We aren't picking favorites. We're picking best. Are Draymond and Chris Paul elite players?

Chris Paul could be done in 3 years. Plus he's small. We all saw how fast Steve Nash deteriorated

 

[Aike]

It's an impressive level of paranoia. I voted for Gonzo, but it's not like his team is a sure-fire winner here.

I guess John Wall and Klay Thompson are supposed to be scared to go up against Chris Paul and Avery Bradley.

Forgive me if I don't tremble.

 

[morgousky]

Gotta go with team 2.

CP is getting older and his body will definitely show it over the next 3-4 years. He's also not a guy I'd prefer go to war with.

Gonzo is definitely more studded at the top, but team 2 has some great options and is deeper. Over 7 years? I'd take team 2. In a 3 game playoff now? I'd take team 1.

 

[gossie21]

We aren't picking favorites. We're picking best. Are Draymond and Chris Paul elite players?

I think I admitted as much. I can think at the same time: (1) I hate the way Chris Paul is more concerned about drawing fouls than running an offense, and (2) he is an elite player with a losing playoff record (33-45).

 

[drcats2013]

I guess John Wall and Klay Thompson are supposed to be scared to go up against Chris Paul and Avery Bradley.

Forgive me if I don't tremble.

Yea he tries to make his team out a lot better than it is, and it's not a bad team. I may lose, but I'll just sit back and let everyone vote and only reply to unjust criticism. I like my team.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I guess John Wall and Klay Thompson are supposed to be scared to go up against Chris Paul and Avery Bradley.

Forgive me if I don't tremble.

"He just cuts you off one way, and when you dribble behind your back he’s already at the next spot," the Wizards point guard said. "There’s no playing around with him."

"Not too many that will guard you 94 feet the whole game," Wall said. "I don't know how he finds the energy to do it."

If only your players were as unbothered as their imaginary owner. But we'll get to that when the time comes.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Gotta go with team 2.

CP is getting older and his body will definitely show it over the next 3-4 years. He's also not a guy I'd prefer go to war with.

Gonzo is definitely more studded at the top, but team 2 has some great options and is deeper. Over 7 years? I'd take team 2. In a 3 game playoff now? I'd take team 1.

How old are Horford, Melo, Lou Williams and Ryan Anderson? How are they good depth over the next 7 years but Chris Paul is due to break down?

Any of them have the best rookie in the league behind them when they start to slow down?

Lets at least be consistent.

 

[drcats2013]

How old are Horford, Melo, Lou Williams and Ryan Anderson? How are they good depth over the next 7 years but Chris Paul is due to break down?

Any of them have the best rookie in the league behind them when they start to slow down?

Lets at least be consistent.

Jimmy Butler is 27, Wiggins 21, Lillard just turned 27, Jamal Murray 20, Dennis Schroeder is 23,Zach Collins is 19, Kanter 25, love only 28 and is a shooter so should still be good at 35. My team also has great veterans in Carmelo and Horford, and the way they play should be fine 4-5 more years. My team is super young and talented. You don't know fultz is the best rookie in the league. Ask Michael Olawakandi or Anthony Bennett. I hope people read these breakdowns...

 

[GonzoCat90]

Jimmy Butler is 27, Wiggins 21, Lillard just turned 27, Jamal Murray 20, Dennis Schroeder is 23,Zach Collins is 19, Kanter 25, love only 28 and is a shooter so should still be good at 35. My team also has great veterans in Carmelo and Horford, and the way they play should be fine 4-5 more years. My team is super young and talented. You don't know fultz is the best rookie in the league. Ask Michael Olawakandi or Anthony Bennett. I hope people read these breakdowns...

The point is that it's inconsistent to say Chris Paul is old and that you have better depth for the next 7 years when my guys are younger than yours. CP3 is the only guy I have that's even 30.

There are arguments to be made against my team, but calling them old for a team with Melo, Horford and Lou Williams isn't one of them.

And "wouldn't want to go to war" with CP3 but Melo is fine? Come on. The fun of this thing is good basketball discussion. Not baseless nonsense.

 

[drcats2013]

The point is that it's inconsistent to say Chris Paul is old and that you have better depth for the next 7 years when my guys are younger than yours. CP3 is the only guy I have that's even 30.

There are arguments to be made against my team, but calling them old for a team with Melo, Horford and Lou Williams isn't one of them.

And "wouldn't want to go to war" with CP3 but Melo is fine? Come on. The fun of this thing is good basketball discussion. Not baseless nonsense.

I agree with most of what you're saying here. Your team as a whole is younger, but the core of my team isn't hurting due to age either.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I agree with most of what you're saying here. Your team as a whole is younger, but the core of my team isn't hurting due to age either.

Definitely not. I think virtually all of us drafted with age in mind.

 

[morgousky]

How old are Horford, Melo, Lou Williams and Ryan Anderson? How are they good depth over the next 7 years but Chris Paul is due to break down?

Any of them have the best rookie in the league behind them when they start to slow down?

It's close, but I just think CP is on his way out and you'll need him. I dunno I just feel team two (I guess) as a better unit for the future. I wasn't really putting tons and tons of thought into it. You could be right.

 

[drcats2013]

 

[Aike]

"He just cuts you off one way, and when you dribble behind your back he’s already at the next spot," the Wizards point guard said. "There’s no playing around with him."

"Not too many that will guard you 94 feet the whole game," Wall said. "I don't know how he finds the energy to do it."

If only your players were as unbothered as their imaginary owner. But we'll get to that when the time comes.

Respect and fear are not the same thing. Or maybe Jerry Myers was right all those years ago?

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Respect and fear are not the same thing. Or maybe Jerry Myers was right all those years ago?

Josh Selby > John Wall

Mark it down

 

[Catzman]

Gonzo wins, yes?