Gas prices

[BeaveUKGT]

C'mon, hasn't anybody here studied basic petroleum economics?

The price of gas is determined by a fine balance of two competing forces:

On the one hand, every time AOC mentions the words "green new deal," gas prices go up 10 cents/gallon.

On the other hand, every time Tucker Carlson mentions makes fun of "windmills," gas prices go down 10 cents/gallon.

The result is that gas prices are in constant flux due to these competing forces.

 

[Tskware]

This is a typical liberal response though. I have no facts to prove america is causing global warming and destroying the climate so I'll take my ball and go home. Carbon can be captured. Natural gas is far less polluting than coal and far more abundant(I believe America still has the largest reserves of natural gas in the world). What do we do with the leftover batteries? What do we do with the broken or used windmill blades? How are we going to produce enough energy to power every vehicle today in circulation?

About 1000 studies say otherwise, but I knew you wouldn't drop it. How did you get your phD by arguing with yourself?

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

What do we do with the broken or used windmill blades?

Aren't they being buried in large pits out West somewhere due to the fact they are not recyclable?

 

[PhDcat2018]

About 1000 studies say otherwise, but I knew you wouldn't drop it. How did you get your phD by arguing with yourself?

1,000 studies and you didn't link a single one. Another liberal response with an insult to boot.

I got my ph.d by thinking critically. The climate changes over thousands of years. It warms and cools. Logically speaking, we as a country, have been through the industrial revolution for just over 120 years. There's no way to prove we have affected the climate in that amount of time.

 

[jameslee32]

False is standard because generally your post are. You have given the same response for the last four years. Orange man bad, Trump screwed up economy (COVID) Trumps starting WWIII (never happened), Russia helped Trump (never happened), Trump and Quid Pro Quo (Biden on record for actually doing it so, Never happened for Trump) Trump racist (not true denounced racism many times) Trump going to increase troops and start more wars in middle east (never happened, Biden actually doing that now) Trump will raise gas prices beyond Obama's prices (never happened, Biden working on that now) and the list goes on. You lie at every turn so, False to your post is almost always the correct response. Nothing more need be posted. Truth is truth.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Paid $2.79 last night.

 

[rqarnold]

US was energy independent for at least a few years with the production from fracking eliminating our need to purchase abroad. We've bought veryblittle oil from OPEC in recent years.

With the cancelation of XL and I would presume new restrictions on fracking coupled with higher demand, most analysts are predicting much higher gas prices. Which tends to hurt lower income folks more as they can't easily absorb the extra costs. Not to mention that higher gas prices also cause almost all prices to rise due to increased transportation costs.

I am not impressed by the current economic policies that have been implemented (by decree) nor what I presume will be implemented. Trying to destroy the current energy sector so a favored methodology of producing energy can become more viable when said methodology is currently incapable of replacing what is being destroyed seems like a very poor grasp of basic economics.

Due to more efficient vehicles demand for gasoline has been flat to trending down since 2007. 2020 saw the lowest demand in nearly 30 years including April 2020 where the 5853/barrels/day average was the lowest since May 1970.
Crude oil consumption in the US peaked in 2005 at 20.8K barrels/day, it hasn’t hit 20K a single year since.
GM is targeting an all electric fleet by 2035. Every vehicle maker is working to put more EVs on the road.
Wind and solar is now a larger part of the nation’s power grid than nuclear and equal to that of coal...and growing.

 

[warrior-cat]

Due to more efficient vehicles demand for gasoline has been flat to trending down since 2007. 2020 saw the lowest demand in nearly 30 years including April 2020 where the 5853/barrels/day average was the lowest since May 1970.
Crude oil consumption in the US peaked in 2005 at 20.8K barrels/day, it hasn’t hit 20K a single year since.
GM is targeting an all electric fleet by 2035. Every vehicle maker is working to put more EVs on the road.
Wind and solar is now a larger part of the nation’s power grid than nuclear and equal to that of coal...and growing.

False.

Wind and solar are the fastest growing renewable sources, but contribute just about 10% of total energy used in the United States.

Nuclear energy
In the U.S., 20 percent of generated electricity comes from nuclear power.

 

[awf]

US was energy independent for at least a few years with the production from fracking eliminating our need to purchase abroad. We've bought veryblittle oil from OPEC in recent years.

With the cancelation of XL and I would presume new restrictions on fracking coupled with higher demand, most analysts are predicting much higher gas prices. Which tends to hurt lower income folks more as they can't easily absorb the extra costs. Not to mention that higher gas prices also cause almost all prices to rise due to increased transportation costs.

I am not impressed by the current economic policies that have been implemented (by decree) nor what I presume will be implemented. Trying to destroy the current energy sector so a favored methodology of producing energy can become more viable when said methodology is currently incapable of replacing what is being destroyed seems like a very poor grasp of basic economics.

Your last statement is a pure description of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez...........

 

[awf]

You could as easily point out that fear mongering lead to many people over the years to stop believing because every ten years for about 70 years now the disasters that were predicted never came true. Billions of dollars squandered on fake or failed green energy businesses have a tendency to make people more skeptical going forward. Changing verbiage to fit the current situation or narrative tends to do that as well.

But Al Gore made millions off of his Energy Credit scheme.........The damn climate has been changing since the planet was first formed........

 

[awf]

Cancelling the Key stone XL pipeline was pretty dumb from an economic and environmental perspective. That same Canadian oil is still going to be shipped to the US only it will be transported via rail. This is less efficient and more likely to result in spills. Somehow the green nut jobs think this is a win.

Biden decision to kill Keystone XL could spell disaster down the tracks - Washington Examiner

Environmentalists may have cheered when President Biden pulled the plug on the Keystone XL pipeline, but his decision is sparking concerns of a greater calamity down the tracks as the risks associated with transporting Canadian crude oil by rail start to pile up. "Biden is trying to be a 'green'...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Just follow the money.......whom ever owns the leases on rail tanker cars is who is bennifiting from the pipeline cancellation......

 

[awf]

My grandfather worked in the oil industry his entire life. The "additives" amount to about a cup per rail car...

I have a nephew who does the BP formulating at a facility in northern Indiana........I am going to ask him.........but you are probably right.......you just piqued my curiosity.......

 

[awf]

All of you apologists I hope you pay the most for gas in the pocket and it hurts you the worst. Along with everything else you stupidly support that will cost you more of your money.

None of what is happening is going to change anything for me......we are basically on a fixed income ....we spent the last 50 yrs fixing it.......we might spend more money but...........we are ready.......I hope the people that voted for this idiot or those who are ignoring the cheating that went on are hurt the most.........I could pay $10 a gallon if it comes to that..........

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Cancelling the Key stone XL pipeline was pretty dumb from an economic and environmental perspective. That same Canadian oil is still going to be shipped to the US only it will be transported via rail. This is less efficient and more likely to result in spills. Somehow the green nut jobs think this is a win.

Biden decision to kill Keystone XL could spell disaster down the tracks - Washington Examiner

Environmentalists may have cheered when President Biden pulled the plug on the Keystone XL pipeline, but his decision is sparking concerns of a greater calamity down the tracks as the risks associated with transporting Canadian crude oil by rail start to pile up. "Biden is trying to be a 'green'...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Just last week a semi collided with a train carrying petroleum in Texas. Of course even with pipelines you can't prevent this, in that trains will still be used, but there willl be more with cancelling Keystone.

 

[warrior-cat]

U.S. utility-scale electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 20191

Energy source	Billion kWh	Share of total
Total - all sources	4,127
Fossil fuels (total)	2,582	62.6%
Natural Gas	1,586	38.4%
Coal	965	23.4%
Petroleum (total)	18	0.4%
Petroleum liquids	12	0.3%
Petroleum coke	7	0.2%
Other gases	13	0.3%
Nuclear	809	19.6%
Renewables (total)	728	17.6%
Wind	295	7.1%
Hydropower	288	7.0%
Solar	72	1.7%
Photovoltaic	69	1.7%
Solar thermal	3	0.1%
Biomass (total)	58	1.4%
Wood	39	0.9%
Landfill gas	10	0.3%
Municipal solid waste (biogenic)	6	0.1%
Other biomass waste	2	0.1%
Geothermal	15	0.4%
Pumped storage hydropower3	-5	-0.1%
Other sources3	13	0.3%

 

[vhcat70]

GM is targeting an all electric fleet by 2035. Every vehicle maker is working to put more EVs on the road.
Wind and solar is now a larger part of the nation’s power grid than nuclear and equal to that of coal...and growing.

I've yet to see an explanation for how folks that have to park on the street or in large apartment complex lots are ever going to be able to charge their vehicles while at home.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Fair enough, that has been the point of all of the recent bickering. You can't get objective discussions because of this. Most know and understand the ebbs and flow of fuel prices and their causes. From projections to weather and just as important OPEC production or the lack of to drive up prices. Many have used the pandemic as well but I don't buy that one for an increase. In fact, a lot less people were traveling which made the prices go down to make it more inviting to go out. The only possible reason to blame the pandemic for price rising would be to say that production was hindered by the lack of workers being at work. Not sure that was the case for OPEC or for us for that matter.

Warrior. I usually always agree with you politically.......but in this case the current low gas price is vastly related to Saudi/Russia price war and the pandemic.

Weekly U.S. Regular All Formulations Retail Gasoline Prices (Dollars per Gallon)

www.eia.gov

As you can see, the US average gas price dropped significantly well before Trump took office....and actually steadily/slowly climbed throughout his time as POTUS. It crashed when Saudi/Russia started their war........and Trump even urged Saudi to decrease production of oil which would've raised prices. And add in the pandemic in which the world's usage of oil/gas has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY and you have the low prices currently.

2020 Russia–Saudi Arabia oil price war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now, Biden could very well increase prices to the moon.......but I don't think he's responsible for much of the gas prices rising over the last few months.

 

[Punkin Puss]

They could build small hydro plants on all these creek dams and power rural communities.

 

[BlueRaider22]

I've yet to see an explanation for how folks that have to park on the street or in large apartment complex lots are ever going to be able to charge their vehicles while at home.

It's really, really, really important to note that changes will happen slower than some are alluding to. It's not like we're gonna wake tomorrow with electric vehicles wondering where the plugs are. The phase out of gas vehicles is probably going to take 10-20 yrs. And technology and infrastructure is going to change along with it.

1st - Some are wondering about the drain on the power grid. Hydro, wind, solar are not completely the answers, but are most certainly going to help......and all are rocket ships right now. I heard that last yr home solar installation across the US was us >60% last yr alone. We will still absolutely be reliant upon coal, natural gas, nuclear for decades to come.

2nd - Technologies will come fast.....and will change often. Companies like Nio can replace your car's low battery with a full charged one in under 3 minutes with an automated system.....and you don't even have to get out. Things like this could replace the need for charging at all......especially in metropolitan areas. Charging will likely be so much quicker. Lucid is boasting that it can get you 300 miles of range in under 20' minutes of charging. If you can swap batteries or charge in about 20' at a station.......it reduces the need to charge at home. But you can be sure that charging station will pop up everywhere.

Plus, it is likely that battery tech will continue to improve rapidly. Right now the typical EV has a range of around 300 miles or so.......but I would not be surprised if that range doubles, triples, or quadruples within the next decade.....thus reducing need to charge as often.

3rd - Some technologies we don't know about. What if hydrogen fuel cells replace plug in power? What if there's something else out there coming?

 

[vhcat70]

Understand your point. Global warming is a threat that we need to address and I'm all for renewable energy sources that have less impact on the environment. Why is there no push for nuclear power which has no carbon footprint and produces much less waste with today's technology? If the Green New Deal was truly about reducing carbon footprint, shouldn't it include nuclear as a possible solution? And if the US had zero footprint, the two biggest culprits, China and India, would still result in a net increase. So, we should wreck our economy and still not eliminate the threat of global warming? What if natural phenomena prove to be a much bigger driver of climate than man? I'm all for clean air, water, soil, etc. and we should do as much as possible to keep the earth livable. Not sure that eliminating all fossil fuel in the US is possible or desirable.

A recent article I read discussed the environmental impact of all-electric cars. From the immense amount of water needed to mine the rare earth metals necessary for the batteries to the huge increase needed in the electrical grid to provide power up and down the highways, the environmental impact to make the switch is not necessarily a huge gain by eliminating fossil fuels. Disposing of used batteries and solar panels is another concern as those rare earth minerals leech back into ground water. Not to mention the number of birds splattered all over windmill turbines, some of which are endangered. I see airport shuttles that run on natural gas and they emit less than gasoline engines. Why isn't there more push for widespread used of NG?

A diversified energy policy that incorporates the best of all energy sources with both economic and environmental impacts in mind is a policy I'd get behind 100%. Unfortunately, I don't see that idea being supported by either side. One side wants to eliminate all fossil fuels and one side wants very little change from the status quo. On this and many other issues, the two parties don't really speak for me.

Best post of the thread. Note I'm a known nukes advocate.

Greens/warming-concern posters who don't mention nuclear as the biggest solution tells you they really aren't serious about the issue and just want to use it as a control-of-our-lives mechanism.

 

[vhcat70]

About 1000 studies say otherwise, but I knew you wouldn't drop it. How did you get your phD by arguing with yourself?

Then could you show us all the green groups advocating for nuclear power? You?

 

[vhcat70]

It's really, really, really important to note that changes will happen slower than some are alluding to. It's not like we're gonna wake tomorrow with electric vehicles wondering where the plugs are. The phase out of gas vehicles is probably going to take 10-20 yrs. And technology and infrastructure is going to change along with it.

1st - Some are wondering about the drain on the power grid. Hydro, wind, solar are not completely the answers, but are most certainly going to help......and all are rocket ships right now. I heard that last yr home solar installation across the US was us >60% last yr alone. We will still absolutely be reliant upon coal, natural gas, nuclear for decades to come.

2nd - Technologies will come fast.....and will change often. Companies like Nio can replace your car's low battery with a full charged one in under 3 minutes with an automated system.....and you don't even have to get out. Things like this could replace the need for charging at all......especially in metropolitan areas. Charging will likely be so much quicker. Lucid is boasting that it can get you 300 miles of range in under 20' minutes of charging. If you can swap batteries or charge in about 20' at a station.......it reduces the need to charge at home. But you can be sure that charging station will pop up everywhere.

Plus, it is likely that battery tech will continue to improve rapidly. Right now the typical EV has a range of around 300 miles or so.......but I would not be surprised if that range doubles, triples, or quadruples within the next decade.....thus reducing need to charge as often.

3rd - Some technologies we don't know about. What if hydrogen fuel cells replace plug in power? What if there's something else out there coming?

Thanks.

NuScale plants will fix the grid power drain. We should plan to be reliant on them. Why are they lumped with fossil fuels vs. clean energy? That's wrong.

Nice battery change concept.

H2 fuel cells fine but would be yet another infrastructure need.

 

[UK till Death]

He can't debate with actual proof. There is no proof that america has threatened the entire global environment and therefore should cut all fossil fuel production. China and India don't have to yet even though they have over 3 times the population...

Exactly.

That's why he's retreated to his cowardly "see 1 and 2" instead of defending himself with evidence.

Typical crying loser lib taking his ball and going home. But, hey, he still wants to talk about women with you. (As an aside, is that actual women or a disfigured man that liberals call a woman like the HHS Director for Xiden?)

Never can be sure with libs.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Thanks.

NuScale plants will fix the grid power drain. We should plan to be reliant on them. Why are they lumped with fossil fuels vs. clean energy? That's wrong.

Nice battery change concept.

H2 fuel cells fine but would be yet another infrastructure need.

Of course.....there are other technologies that could change the landscape altogther.....

Nuclear fusion reactor could be here as soon as 2025

The discovery of new superconducting materials has sped up the timeline considerably.

www.livescience.com

 

[Pelosigalore]

Of course.....there are other technologies that could change the landscape altogther.....

Nuclear fusion reactor could be here as soon as 2025

The discovery of new superconducting materials has sped up the timeline considerably.

www.livescience.com

Is that what Elizabeth Shue came up with that Val Kilmer stole from her?

 

[PhDcat2018]

Exactly.

That's why he's retreated to his cowardly "see 1 and 2" instead of defending himself with evidence.

Typical crying loser lib taking his ball and going home. But, hey, he still wants to talk about women with you. (As an aside, is that actual women or a disfigured man that liberals call a woman like the HHS Director for Xiden?)

Never can be sure with libs.

Liberals cannot handle confrontation at all. They insult/run/cry/blame anyone that disagrees with them.

I'm still waiting on the water to rise and the keys and coastlines to change by miles inland... oh and that ozone layer hole that was going to keep growing... nope.

 

[BillyJoeCat-fan]

BUT, BUT GLOBAL WARMING. WE ONLY HAVE 9 YEARS LEFT. OMG

Well Gosh Damnit to Hell !! I guess we will never catch UCLA then. Now I'm really pissed !!

 

[BillyJoeCat-fan]

Just to demonstrate even people that try to sound reasonable and say oh yes I'm for renewable energy will then spend the next 3 paragraphs telling you why each and every option is a bad choice for America.

Like so many other things in life, not making a choice is making a choice just to be clear.

Geddy Lee from RUSH sang "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". See Freewill

 

[BlueRaider22]

Is that what Elizabeth Shue came up with that Val Kilmer stole from her?

He stole more than cold fusion from Elizabeth Shue from what I remember.......as we all wood......

 

[mktmaker]

It will go up even more shortly. It has been going up every week since Ho Biden took over. Now, you guys will compare short lived price hikes during Trump but, we will see just how far this goes as Ho Biden continues to wreck our economy.

You might consider counseling.

 

[vhcat70]

Of course.....there are other technologies that could change the landscape altogther.....

Nuclear fusion reactor could be here as soon as 2025

The discovery of new superconducting materials has sped up the timeline considerably.

www.livescience.com

Yes, but they're not real yet. These are in a funded project.

NuScale and UAMPS agreements progress plans for SMR plant : New Nuclear - World Nuclear News

Agreements announced yesterday between NuScale Power and Utah Associated Municipal Power Systems to facilitate the development of a project to deploy small modular reactors at the Idaho National Laboratory could lead to the placement of a first order for NuScale Power Modules in 2022.

world-nuclear-news.org

 

[warrior-cat]

You might consider counseling.

LOL. You might consider context. (Hint, last 4 years)

 

[jameslee32]

Get ready to drive 10 miles to a gas station.

The Paddock ready to storm again yet?

 

[jameslee32]

You might consider counseling.

Too far gone into Q land is my best guess.

 

[jameslee32]

It's really, really, really important to note that changes will happen slower than some are alluding to. It's not like we're gonna wake tomorrow with electric vehicles wondering where the plugs are. The phase out of gas vehicles is probably going to take 10-20 yrs. And technology and infrastructure is going to change along with it.

1st - Some are wondering about the drain on the power grid. Hydro, wind, solar are not completely the answers, but are most certainly going to help......and all are rocket ships right now. I heard that last yr home solar installation across the US was us >60% last yr alone. We will still absolutely be reliant upon coal, natural gas, nuclear for decades to come.

2nd - Technologies will come fast.....and will change often. Companies like Nio can replace your car's low battery with a full charged one in under 3 minutes with an automated system.....and you don't even have to get out. Things like this could replace the need for charging at all......especially in metropolitan areas. Charging will likely be so much quicker. Lucid is boasting that it can get you 300 miles of range in under 20' minutes of charging. If you can swap batteries or charge in about 20' at a station.......it reduces the need to charge at home. But you can be sure that charging station will pop up everywhere.

Plus, it is likely that battery tech will continue to improve rapidly. Right now the typical EV has a range of around 300 miles or so.......but I would not be surprised if that range doubles, triples, or quadruples within the next decade.....thus reducing need to charge as often.

3rd - Some technologies we don't know about. What if hydrogen fuel cells replace plug in power? What if there's something else out there coming?

XL Fleet inked a deal with the new UBS Arena in NYC to build 1000 charging stations adjacent to their facility becoming one of the largest EV sites in the country. At some point EV range will only be a concern in very remote areas. Just like yeah, gasoline stations.

 

[rqarnold]

I've yet to see an explanation for how folks that have to park on the street or in large apartment complex lots are ever going to be able to charge their vehicles while at home.

Do you get gas while parked on the street?
Here in the Nashville area many of the gas stations now have EV charging stations. The mall has EV charging, my office building has EV charging, most of the apartment complexes being built have EV charging, I’ve even seen EV charging in church parking lots. There weren’t gas stations on every corner when the automobile came to be. The market adapts to the demand. With the quick charge stations you can get about an 80% recharge in about 20 minutes and that is likely to improve. That is plenty for most people’s needs. Not sure if this will ever happen but when Tesla first came on the market they envisioned stations where you drove in, they swapped your battery pack and you were gone in the same timeframe it takes to fill up. There website has a side by side comparison of the 20 gal fill up and battery swap.

 

[Ron Mehico]

^^^ I think the main issue after they actually build the charging stations is the amount of time it takes like you mentioned. But I don’t know where the bottleneck is. Is the bottleneck the actual battery (meaning as the cars improve the charging is faster)? Or is the bottleneck the chargers (meaning all the stations have to be revamped which would cost tons of money)? If it’s the cars then I think it’ll take about 15 years before charging and filling gas will be comparable for most people.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Do you get gas while parked on the street?
Here in the Nashville area many of the gas stations now have EV charging stations. The mall has EV charging, my office building has EV charging, most of the apartment complexes being built have EV charging, I’ve even seen EV charging in church parking lots. There weren’t gas stations on every corner when the automobile came to be. The market adapts to the demand. With the quick charge stations you can get about an 80% recharge in about 20 minutes and that is likely to improve. That is plenty for most people’s needs. Not sure if this will ever happen but when Tesla first came on the market they envisioned stations where you drove in, they swapped your battery pack and you were gone in the same timeframe it takes to fill up. There website has a side by side comparison of the 20 gal fill up and battery swap.

I got a suggestion. How about we just turn our oil into gasoline and fill up our cars on it?

 

[vhcat70]

Do you get gas while parked on the street?
Here in the Nashville area many of the gas stations now have EV charging stations. The mall has EV charging, my office building has EV charging, most of the apartment complexes being built have EV charging, I’ve even seen EV charging in church parking lots. There weren’t gas stations on every corner when the automobile came to be. The market adapts to the demand. With the quick charge stations you can get about an 80% recharge in about 20 minutes and that is likely to improve. That is plenty for most people’s needs. Not sure if this will ever happen but when Tesla first came on the market they envisioned stations where you drove in, they swapped your battery pack and you were gone in the same timeframe it takes to fill up. There website has a side by side comparison of the 20 gal fill up and battery swap.

I fill my gas tank 100%, not 80%, in under 10 minutes, not "about" 20 minutes which in most cases means 30 minutes. If you're going to use the 80% standard, then take 20% off the supposed range of the cars.

The EV's touted big advantages of charging at home are the low cost and lack of any time input. So people who can't afford garages to begin with are condemned by you to spend more time & more money - higher cost/KW - than someone who can charge at home? Let me know when the battery swap happens widely, but meanwhile stick to the reality of today's EV's.

 

[vhcat70]

^^^ I think the main issue after they actually build the charging stations is the amount of time it takes like you mentioned. But I don’t know where the bottleneck is. Is the bottleneck the actual battery (meaning as the cars improve the charging is faster)? Or is the bottleneck the chargers (meaning all the stations have to be revamped which would cost tons of money)? If it’s the cars then I think it’ll take about 15 years before charging and filling gas will be comparable for most people.

They need electric substation voltage - 1740 - for fast charging.