UK fan. I would like someone preferably a football coach or ex college player to give their opinion on whether or not they believe our defense will step up and stop the run this year. Thanks in advance.
??? For a knowledgeable, reasonable.......
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Not a coach or ex player, but I have stayed at a holiday inn. If Paschal lives up to expectations, if our linebackers play their gaps and if our depth can play we will be good. That is very, very generic I know
I agree. And I must confess that I am actually excited about our defense but I just don't have the experience to really tell.
Are you sure? Curious as to why you need to state that up front? Maybe because of previous posts?
Yes there are a plethora of fans that wish they were experts. And most will post a reply and it not be very well thought out. And they end up dominating a post. And just bickering back and forth. I'm not into that. I'd rather have reasonable talks with open minded individual who are not concerned with getting the last word in.
Not saying you but I would rather have someone post with knowledge and discuss the topic in a reasonable way instead of the usual, oh yeah well mines bigger way. Jmo
Has to be a Holiday Inn Express or you don’t know squat.
I think it's a big concern, the spring game didn't give lots of reasons to think the run defense would be a great deal better. I think Jordan Jones is the,key to it being better. If he is 100% and returns to his 16 form I believe it will be better. I think the issue has been lbs who lacked the lateral mobility as much if not more the DL. They have been a half a step late getting in position to stop explosive plays, Jones is a guy who has that quickness. Allen is a great pass rusher, but only average as a run stopper, at least in the past.
I'm by no means a defensive whiz, but I'd like to see us try and disrupt more plays vs. laying back and reacting.
I think the front seven is improved depth wise over last year, but I don't know that MLB is improved from a quickness/ lateral pursuit perspective.
Largest concern is as usual durability. The D line got manhandled the last third of the year....neither reaching the passer or consistently stopping the run. I think the staff will have to get even more creative with multiple fronts/ blitz packages. As several posters mentioned last season going nickle seemed to be disaster time....no pressure and the switching out a backer took the run d down three notches.
Until I see different I think the defense runs in a razor edge of success/ failure.
Although I was VERY happy to see Rose get big chunks of yards in the Blue/ White game, I hope in real game situations the defense isn't giving out 7-10 yard chunks.
Largest concern is as usual durability. The D line got manhandled the last third of the year....neither reaching the passer or consistently stopping the run. I think the staff will have to get even more creative with multiple fronts/ blitz packages. As several posters mentioned last season going nickle seemed to be disaster time....no pressure and the switching out a backer took the run d down three notches.
Until I see different I think the defense runs in a razor edge of success/ failure.
Although I was VERY happy to see Rose get big chunks of yards in the Blue/ White game, I hope in real game situations the defense isn't giving out 7-10 yard chunks.
Neither a Coach, nor former player. And I slept in my car last night, not a HI, Express.
Grumpy suited for Jawja, as a walk on back in the day, spent years coaching the Georgia HS ranks, so he's the closest regular poster, here, to your criteria.
One thought I had exiting the B/W game was how easy some of the runs by Rose looked. Our second string O-line was blocking our 1st string defense, I THINK, on those runs.
I'm praying that the big kid from Michigan [Marquan McCall] comes in eating nails as a frosh like Robertson and Caudill did back in the day, and plays the nose as a true frosh. Otherwise, we are left with the Wildcard conundrum: absent new talent, how does a defense with the same personnel make a quantum leap from one year to the next?
Well, Pascal is maybe a little closer to the ball than previously, and ready for a second year explosion. And Boogie Watson looks to get, maybe, 10 times the snaps he saw last year . . . . and he was pretty effective anywhere he stuck his nose. He has drawn raves from the coaching staff since his arrival, and has had the talent and smarts to line up early in his career at at least three different positions.
Paint me cautiously optimistic.
[Edit: nothing from this prior, putatively knowledgeable and reasonable post should be considered an admission that "mine" is smaller than anyone else's].
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You're asking for someone to a make a prediction regarding one of the most unpredictable games there is. Second your question is vague what is the definition of "stopping the run"? The best team against the rush last year was Alabama at 2.7 YPR. We allowed 5.0 YPR last year which is not going to get it done. 3.6 YPR would get us roughly into the top 25 - is that "stopping the run"?
What we know: We have better talent up front then we have had in recent years and a lot more depth, while our losses have been minimal. Hypothetically then we should improve over last season, but until they actually play they games no one will no for sure if we improve and if so by how much.
What we know: We have better talent up front then we have had in recent years and a lot more depth, while our losses have been minimal. Hypothetically then we should improve over last season, but until they actually play they games no one will no for sure if we improve and if so by how much.
Awesome post very well put together. I'm not a coach or former player but I look at the guys on our d-line and think they have potential to be really good. And it seems to me our linebackers could be better. But like has been stated they didn't preform well in the blue-white game. I really like your post and it makes sense. Just wondering if anyone saw anything schematically or technique wise that would give even more hope for a successful season. I like the stats about bama. Think if we could get close to three YPR that would be a great season. And to me that would be stopping the run. Thanks for your post. I also wonder what Stoops best year for YPR as a d- coordinator was. And Matt House's.
The talent seems to be there-just have to play displined football at this point. Having everyone play their position and stick to their assignment would go a long way in putting a solid defense on the field this year. The best teams trust each other to be where they are supposed to be and when. This also makes everyone’s job easier and opens up the field for the playmakers to make big plays. We’ll have to have takeaways to win....
If I remember right, Stoops and Elliott built their defense on a 'bend don't break' philosophy at FSU, with some pretty hi level talent. They were very big on living on turnovers...and if you don't get those, breaking happens a lot. They ran a 4-3 multiple defensive set.....which is a pretty big shift to a 3 down line and I think was a stumbling block for those two.
Thanks.
3.0 might be a tall order. Believe it or not beyond Bama which was #1 in YPR allowed last season, there was not another SEC team in the top 25 in stopping the rush. The next best SEC team was Auburn at 3.7 YPR allowed. Only 5 teams allowed 3.0 or less, one of which ironically was Neal Brown's Troy team which was #2 at 2.9 YPR. I say ironically because Brown as most everyone knows is best known for his offensive acumen.
Depending on your linebackers to stop the run is a true sign your d-line isn't adequate. I think our starting d-line is acceptable, I think we run into trouble when we require depth. The one spot on this team that we still lack true depth, is the d-line.
Not in a 3-4 scheme, DLs purpose is to hold their ground and eat up OL, keeping LBs clean allowing them to fill and scrape without having to deal with the OL. When rushing the passer they are suppose to collapse the pocket flushing the QB into the edge rushers. Example is UGA's NT last season started every game, had less than 20 total tackles but was great at what he did by having to be double and triple teamed every play, allowing the LB to stay clean, get to the play and makethe tackle.
A 3-4 with the right personnel is a fantastic defense. As Grumpy said, it requires different skills. The straight 4 down is getting less and less, and finding those man mountain nose tackle athletes gets harder each year.
I think this is likely the first year Kentucky has a group of assistant coaches that are solid with coaching and running the 3-4.
I think this is likely the first year Kentucky has a group of assistant coaches that are solid with coaching and running the 3-4.
I like the run defense to improve because of depth. You have guys like Middleton and Carter who have been forced into action early and often. These guys Imo are more suited to be solid back ups. The emergence of Hoskins Paschal and Bohanna will upgrade the starting unit and then you have guys in Middleton and Carter who have been productive decent players rotating in. Add Dubose Taylor Looney you got back ups who have had weight room time and field time as decent depth pieces. I also believe Allen adding weight should help him set edge better. Throw in a healthy JJ a thumper in Kash and you got yourself a solid if not spectacular front 7 with experienced bodies.
At the end of the day you only "need to stop the run just enough." As was said earlier, we run a "bend, not break" defense......so, you likely won't see a dominant defense as you would like to see. But that's by design....
Now, that being said, we set up better for rush defense than we've seen the last few yrs. We have a veteran secondary that "should" be able to hold their own. We "should" have a good pass rush with guys like Allen/Paschal. We have an emergence of a NT in Bohanna who is just starting to reach upperclass potential. We have improved depth along the entire front 7. Sure, we still have some question marks, but things look promising.....we'll see.
Now, that being said, we set up better for rush defense than we've seen the last few yrs. We have a veteran secondary that "should" be able to hold their own. We "should" have a good pass rush with guys like Allen/Paschal. We have an emergence of a NT in Bohanna who is just starting to reach upperclass potential. We have improved depth along the entire front 7. Sure, we still have some question marks, but things look promising.....we'll see.
Results from last year show that we were better statistically at stopping the run (ranked 59 out of 130 teams) than we were at stopping the pass ( ranked 113 out of 130 teams). Of course the run opens up the pass and vise versa.
I believe in the 3-4 because it allows you to be more athletic which is a big deal with the offenses we are seeing today. As more and more teams move to the 3-4 those huge guys are harder to get because more teams want them. I don't believe they have to be the 340+ monsters but that's just an opinion.
I think you need an athletic guy in the 270-280 range to play a 5 technique, a 300 or so guy to play a 3 and a 310+ to play a 0 or 1 technique. Again a personal choice because I put more value on thickness and agility than size defensively. At LB, I think in today's game it's more important to be athletic, fast and able to play in space than being the big striker of 10 years ago. With all the spreads we are seeing they have to be able to cover, you just can't expect the offense to sub and give you a chance to get a run stopper out. OCs will use formations to create mismatches and force them to cover guys they can't.
Yup. You don't have to have Haloti Ngata lining up as a NT to be effective......though, every team would take one if they could get one. In some respects the NT position gets overrated. You don't have to be huge. You don't have to command double teams. You don't have to have pass rush ability. The main goal is to be a fairly immovable clog in the middle of the line. If you can do that at #300 then great.
Also, it's worth noting that often the true NT's only play a lesser percentage of downs. Dick Lebeau is one of the best 3-4 DC's ever to coach.....and he is well known only to play his NT's for about 20-40% of the defensive snaps. The NT's get switched out in obvious passing downs or when the offenses run quicker tempo. It's also worth noting that because he doesn't use the NT with a high percentage, he has never gone for the Haloti Ngata types who are the elite NT's. He's always done very well with the lesser known names.
Now, all I have said above does NOT mean that the NT is meaningless. It's certainly a major player in a 3-4 base defense.
Now, about the 3-4 defense. Everyone is correct that it's design is to put more speed and athleticism on the field. But it's also worth noting that just about program......including UK......only runs a true 3-4 alignment a fraction of the time. Stoops runs a lot of 4 linemen fronts......and they shift people around quite a bit.
In reference to defensive rankings. Be cautious. The "bend not break" philosophy is a very proven, sound approach. It's not my personal cup'o'tea, but it is a proven philosophy. By design, it will yield more yards than a more aggressive defense. Soooo, theoretically, you can field a really effective defense but not be ranked very high.
I stayed at a Best Western but that's close enough.
We have enough talent to be a mid pack defense. The problem is that our LBs don't shutdown their gaps. There is way too much free lancing on the defense. And too much busted coverages. Fix those 3 things and this will be a top 6 defense in the league. However if we continue to let Jordan Jones run wherever he wants, continue to have LBs play off the ball instead of filling gaps, and continue to have our safeties and corners get mixed up on assignments then we will once again be the worst defense in the league.
To answer the OPs question I don't think anyone, including Mark Stoops, knows right now. When you get beat by talent you have to live with it. Being beat because of broken assignments and busted coverages however is unacceptable and there's still too much of that going on.
Do you think Dean Hood's move to the secondary will help with the missed assignments by the secondary? I do because I think he is the best coach on this staff. I also think White will really help with the linebackers. Jmo.
“If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.”
― Sun Tzu
Hood has been a general himself.....and a fairly good one. We'll probably see a better secondary just by clarification of their duties.
We disagree a little on the NG responsibility, his job is to require double teams. UGA gets out of 3down look but normally in passing downs and brings in an extra LB. Now that LB may put his hand down, I suppose it is to cause a little more confusion for the offense
Well, surely I meet at least one of those qualifications!
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
As much fun as it is to discuss the relative merits of the 1 Gap 3-4 or the 4-3 Under or whatever, I think many fans are expecting a better 2018 defense based pretty much on "returning experience". The Cats return 8 - 10 starters from last years defense many of which are SR multi year starters.
For what little its worth I think the "experience factor" is bigger on the offensive side rather than the defensive side. I say that because defensive play relies more on sheer athletic talent (i.e., size, speed, strength, quickness). The upshot here is that an experienced, SR dominated defense may have already done all they can do. And it is usually difficult to "improve" defense with a new stud here or there. Defense is really an 11 man proposition especially against today's offenses that spread you all over the field AND often make you account for the QB as a runner in a much different way than the old time triple option years.
My point is, on defense, I am inclined to think returning performance is a better indicator of what to expect than returning experience. Teams like AL, tOSU and others routinely lose "experience" but add "new talent" (i.e., size, speed, strength, quickness) and still maintain a high level of defensive performance.
For UK, the returning performance on run defense is:
2017: #79 in overall rush defense (175 YPG), #96 in YPRA (4.89 yards)
2016: #110 in overall rush defense (228 YPG), #105 in YPRA (5.15 yards)
2015: #97 in overall rush defense (196 YPG), #86 in YPRA (4.61 yards)
2016: #110 in overall rush defense (228 YPG), #105 in YPRA (5.15 yards)
2015: #97 in overall rush defense (196 YPG), #86 in YPRA (4.61 yards)
The above does not absolutely mean the Cats won't be better on run defense this year but I think it is a better way to look at the situation. A happy surprise is always better than big disappointment. All JMO
Peace
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Not necessarily. A NG can be every bit of disruptive if you have him shoot the gap to cause havoc in the middle.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...aller-nose-tackles-issac-gross-defense-spread
It's also worth noting that if you have a guy who doesn't shoot the gap.....but is just stout enough to be relatively immovable.....they can shut down a running lane and create OL disruption. Now, that being said, such guys often draw a double team because it takes 2 guys to move them and open lanes.
Once again, let me reiterate, that everyone would choose a guy who draws double teams and is a dominate force over someone who can't. But it's a farce that a NG "has to" do these things to be effective.
Hence, I made reference to the "Wildcard conundrum" in one of my posts, above.
I tend to agree with your theory that using the same mature personnel does not guarantee improvement, but there have been notable exceptions. Kentucky in 2006 was ranked well into the 100's on total defense. Two seasons later, they were 32nd in total defense.
Now, pegging the difference maker might be subjective, but the biggest change was the emergence of Jefferson Countian Myron Pryor. He played on both the 2006 and the 2008 teams, but looked much more effective as a senior than as a Soph. Also, one stud, Micah Johnson, was an addition to the formula, in 2008 (and yes, 2007).
So it can be done.
I actually have a different thought on the subject. I actually think that returning the same personnel almost always leads to improvement.......you just don't know how much? It could be very little.....or it could be a lot.
You talking a different scheme now, that's a 2 gap technique, which is an adaption made when you don't have someone that can demand double teams. The thing you have to remember with a NG who is playing this technique, you are leaving a lane for the rb to cut back to and be in your secondary, when your LB don't have good lateral quickness it's magnified. Shooting gaps is riskier than I like to play, how many 8-10 yard runs are you willing to give up to get a 2 yard loss?
Of course it's a different technique. As you said, it's an adaptation when you don't have a guy who can command double teams. That was the point.....you don't "have to" have a guy who demands double teams. Though, it is what is desired.
Then we are talking about a different defense and you are aware of that. A guy doesn't have to be 340+ to demand double teams and a guy 340+ doesn't always demand double teams. it's technique, leverage and strength. Poor technique will get a guy 370 drove off the ball as easily as a guy at 240 by a single blocker if he gets too high, we had one who did, UK had one who did, in fact we have had 2 who did. Our NG last season was 310-315 and did a great job of keeping our LB clean because he kept a flat back and was like trying to move a boat anchor, made very few tackles, but was great at what he did.
The WildCard Conundrum...I like the sound of it even if I don't know what it is.
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
Naturally there exceptions to most every rule. In the situation we are discussing (big stat jump in 2008 from 2006/2007) who you played each year can certainly be a factor. I am not going to break this down into the "quality of rushing offense" faced each year (too much work but necessary to really get into it). However, FWIW, I will note the Sagarin SOS was #13 in '06, #17 in 07 but #59 in 2008. I will ass-u-me those high SOSs would likely translate into much better offenses faced in 2006 and 2007 than in 2008. JMO
Peace
