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ESPN: NCAA hoops scandal will likely spread as trial starts

There are NEW rules!!!

https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...nges-ncaa-agents-nba-draft-this-fixes-nothing

"As a term of employment, school presidents and athletics staff must commit contractually to full cooperation in the investigations and infractions process.

People charged with investigating and resolving NCAA cases can accept information established by another administrative body, including a court of law, government agency, accrediting body or a commission authorized by a school. This will save time and resources previously used to confirm information already adjudicated by another group.

This essentially gives the NCAA its own version of subpoena power, putting school presidents and ADs on the line for forcing rules while also now accepting anything the FBI finds as truth instead of having to investigate it themselves.

This should make the initial schools involved in the FBI scandal even more scared. Under these rules, NCAA punishment could appear at any moment. And the new rules also make the punishments harsher than ever."

100% agree. However, this is a pervasive problem in recruiting at the level below college coaches and college basketball programs. What is the NCAA going to do? Put every school on probation? Who will play the season? Mid-majors who don't land the top 150 recruits?
 
100% agree. However, this is a pervasive problem in recruiting at the level below college coaches and college basketball programs. What is the NCAA going to do? Put every school on probation? Who will play the season? Mid-majors who don't land the top 150 recruits?
Name a point where the NCAA has made sense (aside from U6). I'll hang up and listen. They came out and said they are going to defer to all the information the FBI has and will make amateurism rulings faster than ever. So if I were a Kansas fan, then I would probably stop talking. I like you as a poster, and I too am a homer, but there are ZERO wire taps on record to UK, nor has any information (except for one snide remark) come out about UK. I'm sorry. Kansas is in deep. With 2 players already named as taken money in some fashion in the same recruiting period, then "lack of institutional" control for Kansas (AGAIN) is a possibility.

God Speed on your fandom, but Kansas is going doing like a U6 hooker. Jmo.
 
Name a point where the NCAA has made sense (aside from U6). I'll hang up and listen. They came out and said they are going to defer to all the information the FBI has and will make amateurism rulings faster than ever. So if I were a Kansas fan, then I would probably stop talking. I like you as a poster, and I too am a homer, but there are ZERO wire taps on record to UK, nor has any information (except for one snide remark) come out about UK. I'm sorry. Kansas is in deep. With 2 players already named as taken money in some fashion in the same recruiting period, then "lack of institutional" control for Kansas (AGAIN) is a possibility.

God Speed on your fandom, but Kansas is going doing like a U6 hooker. Jmo.

Wait. There are zero wire taps on record to KU. And UK has been mentioned in this ordeal with the Adebayo loan. Also, didn't the NCAA come out already and announce changes to the amateurism rules which will take effect if and when the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Those rules will allow agents to pay high school players? That there should show that the NCAA knows this is a pervasive issue and that they are ready to concede to paying players.

I really do not like talking about this, since I will not convince anyone here that KU is not dirty.
 
Name a point where the NCAA has made sense (aside from U6). I'll hang up and listen. They came out and said they are going to defer to all the information the FBI has and will make amateurism rulings faster than ever. So if I were a Kansas fan, then I would probably stop talking. I like you as a poster, and I too am a homer, but there are ZERO wire taps on record to UK, nor has any information (except for one snide remark) come out about UK. I'm sorry. Kansas is in deep. With 2 players already named as taken money in some fashion in the same recruiting period, then "lack of institutional" control for Kansas (AGAIN) is a possibility.

God Speed on your fandom, but Kansas is going doing like a U6 hooker. Jmo.
What an ugly thing to say..............about a U6 hooker:D Now that I got that out of the way,if we go back to the Emmert interview last year(about the time of the start of the conference tournaments) he said more or less that the scope of the cheating was so large that the NCAA wouldn't sanction individual schools and just move on with maybe some new rules in place..I think that was the plan from day one,I doubt that has changed.UL presents the NCAA a problematic issue with Bowen following so closely on the heels of Hookergate.

I continue to believe that the NCAA will do nothing to anyone with the possible exception of UL.As with most things the NCAA does or doesn't do this is wrong on multiple levels but that doesn't change their course of action.
 
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Bam hasn't been mentioned in this trial.

Yeah, he has.

"On Wednesday, Sood also acknowledged during cross-examination by Dawkins' attorney, Steve Haney, that he met with Pina and another man to discuss paying then-Kentucky forward Bam Adebayo and other UK players in hopes of landing them as clients for his financial management company.

"Stephen Pina was trying to position you by paying Bam Adebayo, and other kids at Kentucky, and he told you it would be expensive, didn't he?" Haney asked.

"Yes," Sood replied.

"And you understood that to mean that you were going to have to pay a lot of money to get those kids from Kentucky, didn't you?" Haney asked.

"Yes," Sood said."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...n-trial-drags-names-markelle-fultz-kyle-kuzma
 
Wait. There are zero wire taps on record to KU. And UK has been mentioned in this ordeal with the Adebayo loan. Also, didn't the NCAA come out already and announce changes to the amateurism rules which will take effect if and when the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Those rules will allow agents to pay high school players? That there should show that the NCAA knows this is a pervasive issue and that they are ready to concede to paying players.

I really do not like talking about this, since I will not convince anyone here that KU is not dirty.
That is akin to trying to convince the world that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.KU has operated outside the rules on so many issues over the past few years that they can't tell the difference between cheating and playing by the rules.They aren't the only ones by any means but the Self act has worn thin,do you think anyone believes the stuff he has said over the past couple of years.
 
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Wait. There are zero wire taps on record to KU. And UK has been mentioned in this ordeal with the Adebayo loan. Also, didn't the NCAA come out already and announce changes to the amateurism rules which will take effect if and when the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Those rules will allow agents to pay high school players? That there should show that the NCAA knows this is a pervasive issue and that they are ready to concede to paying players.

I really do not like talking about this, since I will not convince anyone here that KU is not dirty.
No you can’t convince us the Rug Doctor and the and the Jailhawks are not dirty, anymore than than you can convince us that UNCHEAT’s player went to class for 20 years !!
 
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Wait. There are zero wire taps on record to KU. And UK has been mentioned in this ordeal with the Adebayo loan. Also, didn't the NCAA come out already and announce changes to the amateurism rules which will take effect if and when the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Those rules will allow agents to pay high school players? That there should show that the NCAA knows this is a pervasive issue and that they are ready to concede to paying players.

I really do not like talking about this, since I will not convince anyone here that KU is not dirty.

Paying players is pervasive. But the violations that will potentially land KU in hot water are not as pervasive as you’re asserting because you’re conflating different types of payments into one issue.

The fact is that the government has provided evidence of three types of payments:
  1. Payments from shoe companies or AAU coaches to entice players to join a specific shoe sponsored AAU team
  2. Loans / payments to athletes by agents in the hopes that the athlete will sign with the agent once turning pro
  3. Payments from shoe companies to athletes to steer them to a specific university affiliated with the shoe company
I would agree the payments types 1 and 2 appear pervasive based on the evidence.

However, there has been no evidence thus far to indicate that payment type 3 is as pervasive as you’re implying. No one from Nike has been charged, nor has anyone referenced Nike payments to steer athletes during recruiting to specific universities.

And this is surprising when you consider that Nike was also subpoenaed and Merl Code recently ran Nike’s grassroots basketball. So Code of all people should know if Nike was doing this. And because the defense’s strategy in this case has been to admit everything but argue it’s not a crime, then it stands to reason that if Nike we’re doing this, Code would’ve revealed this. If everyone does it, it strengthens his defense. Perhaps something more comes out, but there’s no evidence yet.

Bowen Sr’s testimony yesterday was also revealing on this point. Dawkins tole Bowen that basically 4 Nike schools and 1 Adidas school were willing to pay. For the Nike schools, Dawkins mentioned coaches made the offers, but for Louisville, he mentioned Adidas would take care of it.

It was also interesting that the 4 Nike schools had vastly different offers. If Nike were driving this, and their only goal is to ensure he signed with a Nike school, it’s unusual that Nike was willing to pay him more to go to a non-basketball school like Ok State than a more traditional power like Arizona.

In fact, those differences seem to indicate to me that it was the schools driving those offers and not Nike. Which would not be surprising when Nike sponsors nearly 70% of major programs. Odds are that kids end up at a Nike school, even without inducements, so there’s less of a need for Nike to pay.

Payment type 3 is the one most likely to cause NCAA issues and it does not appear as pervasive as you’d suggest. But what is clear is that KU is deeply involved with those types of payments.
 
Paying players is pervasive. But the violations that will potentially land KU in hot water are not as pervasive as you’re asserting because you’re conflating different types of payments into one issue.

The fact is that the government has provided evidence of three types of payments:
  1. Payments from shoe companies or AAU coaches to entice players to join a specific shoe sponsored AAU team
  2. Loans / payments to athletes by agents in the hopes that the athlete will sign with the agent once turning pro
  3. Payments from shoe companies to athletes to steer them to a specific university affiliated with the shoe company
I would agree the payments types 1 and 2 appear pervasive based on the evidence.

However, there has been no evidence thus far to indicate that payment type 3 is as pervasive as you’re implying. No one from Nike has been charged, nor has anyone referenced Nike payments to steer athletes during recruiting to specific universities.

And this is surprising when you consider that Nike was also subpoenaed and Merl Code recently ran Nike’s grassroots basketball. So Code of all people should know if Nike was doing this. And because the defense’s strategy in this case has been to admit everything but argue it’s not a crime, then it stands to reason that if Nike we’re doing this, Code would’ve revealed this. If everyone does it, it strengthens his defense. Perhaps something more comes out, but there’s no evidence yet.

Bowen Sr’s testimony yesterday was also revealing on this point. Dawkins tole Bowen that basically 4 Nike schools and 1 Adidas school were willing to pay. For the Nike schools, Dawkins mentioned coaches made the offers, but for Louisville, he mentioned Adidas would take care of it.

It was also interesting that the 4 Nike schools had vastly different offers. If Nike were driving this, and their only goal is to ensure he signed with a Nike school, it’s unusual that Nike was willing to pay him more to go to a non-basketball school like Ok State than a more traditional power like Arizona.

In fact, those differences seem to indicate to me that it was the schools driving those offers and not Nike. Which would not be surprising when Nike sponsors nearly 70% of major programs. Odds are that kids end up at a Nike school, even without inducements, so there’s less of a need for Nike to pay.

Payment type 3 is the one most likely to cause NCAA issues and it does not appear as pervasive as you’d suggest. But what is clear is that KU is deeply involved with those types of payments.

This is very well laid out. However, Creighton and Oregon are Nike schools. Bowen stated that he was offered money by a Nike sponsored grassroots program to have his kid play for their AAU team. Who do you think Adidas is bidding against? Themselves?

edited to add: I see you do outline the Nike accusations. I will say that there is no evidence which has been presented to show that De Sousa had knowledge of what his guardian allegedly (and he has denied it) was doing. Preston never played at KU.
 
That is akin to trying to convince the world that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.KU has operated outside the rules on so many issues over the past few years that they can't tell the difference between cheating and playing by the rules.They aren't the only ones by any means but the Self act has worn thin,do you think anyone believes the stuff he has said over the past couple of years.

Come on Doc, there is no evidence to suggest KU has had any involvement and you know it. Have KU recruits been caught up in their families receiving benefits? Yes. But when identified, KU has taken the correct compliance response.
 
Someone is trying really hard to convince us and themselves that Kansas is the victim in all of this. Sitting players out of games is a dead give away that they knew something. Some advice, I'm sure you would probably get more support from a KU board than coming to a UK board telling anyone that will listen that KU was innocent.
 
Come on Doc, there is no evidence to suggest KU has had any involvement and you know it. Have KU recruits been caught up in their families receiving benefits? Yes. But when identified, KU has taken the correct compliance response.
I would submit that when KU officials(insert Self here) are convinced that someone outside their circle of trust knows that a player has eligibility issues they sit him.As long as the world at large doesn't know those players play.

Preston and the car accident is an example,Self knew too much information was going to leak.I applaud your loyalty to the program,maybe I would do the same if the roles were reversed but Self is KU's Eddie Sutton to the core,he is just better at it.
 
Someone is trying really hard to convince us and themselves that Kansas is the victim in all of this. Sitting players out of games is a dead give away that they knew something. Some advice, I'm sure you would probably get more support from a KU board than coming to a UK board telling anyone that will listen that KU was innocent.

Sure. They knew something because there is a process where if improprieties are identified either by the school's compliance program or by the NCAA the school/program is notified of the impropriety. Then the staff takes corrective action.
 
This is very well laid out. However, Creighton and Oregon are Nike schools. Bowen stated that he was offered money by a Nike sponsored grassroots program to have his kid play for their AAU team. Who do you think Adidas is bidding against? Themselves?

edited to add: I see you do outline the Nike accusations. I will say that there is no evidence which has been presented to show that De Sousa had knowledge of what his guardian allegedly (and he has denied it) was doing. Preston never played at KU.

For DeSousa, him personally not knowing doesn’t particularly help. NCAA has been tinkering with the by-laws since Cam Newton to try to address those types of situations.

The bigger risk for KU, is that evidence emerges that KU coaches were at least aware this activity was occurring, even if they weren’t directly involved. If that happens, the fact that DeSousa didn’t know or that Preston never played becomes irrelevant.

Personally, I have a hard time believing that KU coaches were in the dark. For the other Adidas schools in the indictment, the government states that coaches at each school were directly involved. It seems highly unlikely to me that Adidas would work hand in hand with coaches at schools like Louisville and NC State, but work in secret and behind the backs of KU who is arguably Adidas’ most prestigious and visible college basketball team. That just seems like a stretch to me.

But if that evidence never comes to light, or if KU was able to conclusive refute any claims that they knew about these schemes, then who knows what happens. There are some other factors at play that make it difficult to predict what the NCAA will do (e.g., uncertainty around number of schools involved, implications of ongoing antitrust lawsuits).

If I’m a KU fan, first and foremost, I’m praying that there is no hint of the coaches having knowledge of this presented as evidence.
 
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Due to the NCAA being so inconsistent on cases like this, I will just sit back and wait to see who gets punished. Anything at this point is just speculation and wishful thinking.
Hard to argue with.
 
If this could make UK and Cal look bad the dam trail would have been held in Lexington
 
There was no mention of players being paid to come to UK............. so Kentucky wasnt mentioned in a bad way... just the players they were wanting to get were Kentucky players. But they have mentioned specifically that two KU players were paid to attend KU. Completely different subjects.
 
We all know the Jailhawk’s are not going to own up to their cheating ways , they will do just like UNCHEAT lie, stall, and spend as much money as they have to get out of this all the while claiming to be a victim!!
 
L
Sure. They knew something because there is a process where if improprieties are identified either by the school's compliance program or by the NCAA the school/program is notified of the impropriety. Then the staff takes corrective action.
well one thing the Jailhawks and the rug doctor should be good at is recognizeing improprieties in players because they have at least one or two every single year !,
 
No.Cal seems to have been very careful about staying away from certain players and I sure don't see him being dirty in the Bam situation.Seems like North Carolina State was the dirty party in the matter.

Very similar situation to De Sousa.

Bam wanted to go to UK. Loan to get him to go to NC State was bad because he didn't go to NC State.

De Sousa wanted to go to KU. Money to get him to go to Maryland was bad because he didn't go to Maryland.

Kentucky - victim.
Kansas - victim.
 
Very similar situation to De Sousa.

Bam wanted to go to UK. Loan to get him to go to NC State was bad because he didn't go to NC State.

De Sousa wanted to go to KU. Money to get him to go to Maryland was bad because he didn't go to Maryland.

Kentucky - victim.
Kansas - victim.
Very similar situation to De Sousa.

Bam wanted to go to UK. Loan to get him to go to NC State was bad because he didn't go to NC State.

De Sousa wanted to go to KU. Money to get him to go to Maryland was bad because he didn't go to Maryland.

Kentucky - victim.
Kansas - victim.
Not even close to the same. You’re reaching. It’s already been stated that that he was paid to go to Maryland and adidas paid them back so he could go to Kansas. Nice try!
 
Yeah, he has.

"On Wednesday, Sood also acknowledged during cross-examination by Dawkins' attorney, Steve Haney, that he met with Pina and another man to discuss paying then-Kentucky forward Bam Adebayo and other UK players in hopes of landing them as clients for his financial management company.

"Stephen Pina was trying to position you by paying Bam Adebayo, and other kids at Kentucky, and he told you it would be expensive, didn't he?" Haney asked.

"Yes," Sood replied.

"And you understood that to mean that you were going to have to pay a lot of money to get those kids from Kentucky, didn't you?" Haney asked.

"Yes," Sood said."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...n-trial-drags-names-markelle-fultz-kyle-kuzma

Do you have comprehension problems?

They WANTED Kentucky players, Kansas players WERE PAID to GO to KANSAS.

They are nowhere near similar situations. Kentucky is not involved in your scandal at all, nice try though
 
Wait. There are zero wire taps on record to KU. And UK has been mentioned in this ordeal with the Adebayo loan. Also, didn't the NCAA come out already and announce changes to the amateurism rules which will take effect if and when the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Those rules will allow agents to pay high school players? That there should show that the NCAA knows this is a pervasive issue and that they are ready to concede to paying players.

I really do not like talking about this, since I will not convince anyone here that KU is not dirty.
KU has been dirty for several years. Including the years Roy Williams was at KU.
 
Wait. There are zero wire taps on record to KU. And UK has been mentioned in this ordeal with the Adebayo loan. Also, didn't the NCAA come out already and announce changes to the amateurism rules which will take effect if and when the NBA gets rid of the one and done rule? Those rules will allow agents to pay high school players? That there should show that the NCAA knows this is a pervasive issue and that they are ready to concede to paying players.

I really do not like talking about this, since I will not convince anyone here that KU is not dirty.
The rules haven’t taken affect. No UK hasn’t been named. Bam isn’t in any of the trial stuff either. Reading comprehension seems to be a problem for you Kansas fans. What was said, is they wanted to offer UK recruits but they’d cost too much.
 
Yeah, he has.

"On Wednesday, Sood also acknowledged during cross-examination by Dawkins' attorney, Steve Haney, that he met with Pina and another man to discuss paying then-Kentucky forward Bam Adebayo and other UK players in hopes of landing them as clients for his financial management company.

"Stephen Pina was trying to position you by paying Bam Adebayo, and other kids at Kentucky, and he told you it would be expensive, didn't he?" Haney asked.

"Yes," Sood replied.

"And you understood that to mean that you were going to have to pay a lot of money to get those kids from Kentucky, didn't you?" Haney asked.

"Yes," Sood said."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...n-trial-drags-names-markelle-fultz-kyle-kuzma
How's this bad for Kentucky? Sounds like these goons were trying to buy the players FROM Kentucky, not pay them to GO TO Kentucky.

Pretty big difference from a player being offered money to attend, and then ATTENDING the college they were paid to attend (like Bowen and UL).
 
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