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ESPN: NCAA hoops scandal will likely spread as trial starts

Donnelly, however, countered by arguing that Gatto was helping the schools by delivering top talent that made the institutions millions and the NCAA billions. She also promised evidence that would show Gatto was doing so with the knowledge and even at the request of highly paid basketball coaches.

“Jim Gatto broke NCAA rules,” Donnelly said. “NCAA rules are not laws.”
 
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Additionally, Donnelly acknowledged that Gatto provided a $20,000 payment to recruit Silvio De Sousa, who attends Kansas, which is sponsored by Adidas. He did so, however, only after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland.”

“Jim was asked if Jim could match the offer so [De Sousa] could go to Kansas,” Donnelly said, not specifically naming who asked for the offer to be matched.

De Sousa played last year on the Jayhawks’ Final Four team and is returning for his sophomore season.
 
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seccats04 said:
If you defraud the gov't on your taxes, you could go to prison. Same deal here for whoever made the payment(s). If Miller was somehow involved then he could be charged as a conspirator, if nothing else.

What is the FBI's mandate? I'm sure they go after businesses all the time for fraud, tax evasion, conspiracy, etc. No different here except the suspects are colleges and shoe companies.
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If they defrauded the goverement on taxes, typically the IRS handles the investigation, even in criminal cases.

At any rate, it’s a stretch to say that any lost taxes from Adidas were the result of Gatto attempting to evade taxes. It would it instead be an instance where taxes were withheld due to the chain of events that followed the misclassification. So you could certainly argue negligence, but criminal evasion is a major stretch.

Not surprisingly, Gatto wasn’t charged with tax evasion (unless I missed something). He was charged with wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. But in order to commit wire fraud, there also has to be a victim whom you’ve defrauded.

In this case, the FBI says that Gatto defrauded schools like Louisville by helping them get the recruits they wanted. When the coach of the school is part of the decision to pay the recruit, how exactly is the school being defrauded?
 
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Many universities are going down. The FBI's case (IMO - soft, not probably going to stick) is intent on showing the shoe companies and rogue coaches paying players... The defendent's are intent on showing that this widespread across all schools, and the schools are directing them to send money. So on the first day, Adidas' lawyers implicate one of the biggest Nike schools - Oregon. Shit, everybody is going down.

Just recently, the NCAA passed a myriad of new rules, and one of those rules is that their enforcement division could use 3rd party evidence (THIS CASE) to levy Letters of infractions and subsequent penalties. It will be at the behest of the NCAA to send these letters quickly and move it along as soon as possible.
 
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So basically you have 2 separate areas with no overlap, a FBI case where Gatto committed wire fraud crimes but no NCAA violation and then Coaches, colleges, ADs who didn't commit crimes but committed NCAA violations??
 
Canned Heat said:
All three men are charged with one count of wire fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud involving the recruitment of Bowen, who was ruled ineligible by the NCAA and never played at Louisville before turning pro. Gatto also faces a second wire-fraud count involving players at the University of Kansas.

Here at the Daniel Patrick Moynihan federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan, the government is trying to paint a picture of the three men conspiring to defraud Louisville, Kansas, North Carolina State and Miami by doling out payments to recruits and their families that violate NCAA statutes. As such, any school playing such a player is now at risk of NCAA sanctions.
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@Nooneputsbabyinacorner
 
Canned Heat said:
Additionally, Donnelly acknowledged that Gatto provided a $20,000 payment to recruit Silvio De Sousa, who attends Kansas, which is sponsored by Adidas. He did so, however, only after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland.”

“Jim was asked if Jim could match the offer so [De Sousa] could go to Kansas,” Donnelly said, not specifically naming who asked for the offer to be matched.

De Sousa played last year on the Jayhawks’ Final Four team and is returning for his sophomore season.
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@Nooneputsbabyinacorner ... we know you’re nervous
 
JeepCSC said:
UNC’s academics (including the law school) is top notch, and they can weave a web unlike any other to protect even their clunker department. We are less good at the cheating when our athletics are the pointman. It’s usually a hamfisted affair, like couchgate. Regardless, Little got spooked by the FBI and that’s why he chose UNC. I guess maybe Roy sees #4 with Little, and that’s why Roy agreed to be the safety school for Nas.
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Can you spell a-c-a-d-e-m-i-c or p-r-o-b-a-t-i-o-n?
 
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I was wondering how Oregon started getting all these high profile recruits. Now we know why. There was a SF that was dying for a UK offer and Cal wouldn't give him the time of day so he went to Oregon. I wonder if this is why Cal didn't want him?
 
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FrankUnderwood said:
@Nooneputsbabyinacorner ... we know you’re nervous
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You know, a few thing I dread about the start of the college basketball season:

1.The completely delusional KU fans who run over here to explain away the yearly scandals that crop up for their program

2.The ESPN love fest for the latest edition of K and his flailing floppers,it will be tougher this year (even the bias refs will have a hard time buying a 280 pound Zion flopping when a 165 pound guard bumps into him)

3.UNC taking the court to play anyone
 
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seccats04 said:
I was wondering how Oregon started getting all these high profile recruits. Now we know why. There was a SF that was dying for a UK offer and Cal wouldn't give him the time of day so he went to Oregon. I wonder if this is why Cal didn't want him?
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Louis King comes to mind. Is this who you’re speaking of?
 
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This FBI probe is going to be Cals greatest wins to date

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Im sure Louisville fans are already blaming him.
 
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I still think this thing will be too big for any major punishment to any school unless it's a case like Louisville where they have you on tape saying the dumbest shit imaginable.

I'm also not cool with a school being punished because a player took money from someone else. If it's from that school, sure. But if Joe Schmoe gives Player X a million dollars to go to School A and the player takes that money but goes elsewhere, School B shouldn't get punished for having that kid.
 
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UKnCincy said:
And it would be a miscarriage of justice to send someone to prison for this stuff. FBI really shouldn’t be involved with this case in the first place.

If Adidas failed to pay a portion of their taxes because of how these payments were classified, then have the IRS audit them, figure out the amount they should have paid and add penalties, and then have Adidas pay that amount. Case closed.

As far as fraud is concerned, I have a hard time buying the argument that Gatto defrauded the school by helping them get what the school wanted in the first place. The idea that the schools are a victim here is a major stretch in my opinion. The schools are simply trying to save their hides from two things: 1. NCAA penalties and 2. how their perceived involvement would negatively impact the narrative in on-going antitrust lawsuits.

FBI needs to do a better job of sticking to their mandate in my opinion.
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The fraud here is not the schools where these guys were working a deal to go, but in creating an uneven recruiting advantage whereby other "honest" schools aren't able to sign these guys because of the illegal inducements by the crooked schools. That's the fraud. And yes, the FBI acts in all kinds of "white collar" crimes to keep our country free of collusion, conspiracy, anti-trust so everyone has a fair shot. It's what separates us from corrupt banana republics and demagogue nations. It's called the rule of law.
 
CatEye2010 said:
The fraud here is not the schools where these guys were working a deal to go, but in creating an uneven recruiting advantage whereby other "honest" schools aren't able to sign these guys because of the illegal inducements by the crooked schools. That's the fraud. And yes, the FBI acts in all kinds of "white collar" crimes to keep our country free of collusion, conspiracy, anti-trust so everyone has a fair shot. It's what separates us from corrupt banana republics and demagogue nations. It's called the rule of law.
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I see you’ve not read the actual indictment.
 
CatEye2010 said:
I was referring to the premise for the original investigation, and your dismissal of the existence of fraud.
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The premise for the investigation is what is attested to by the FBI and Department of Justice in the indictment.

It is crystal clear, on the record and cannot be disputed that the FBI believes that by conspiring to pay Brian Bowen to entice him to commit to Louisville, Gatto defrauded the University of Louisville by depriving them of an eligible athlete. It has absolutely nothing to do with schools who did not land these recruits.

And further, it’s a bit laughable for the FBI to assert that Louisville was defrauded by Gatto when their own head coach was involved and wanted this to happen.

FBI has no business investigating this and it’s ironic that you trumpet the rule of law in order to defend an instance of over reach.
 
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Canned Heat said:
Additionally, Donnelly acknowledged that Gatto provided a $20,000 payment to recruit Silvio De Sousa, who attends Kansas, which is sponsored by Adidas. He did so, however, only after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland.”

“Jim was asked if Jim could match the offer so [De Sousa] could go to Kansas,” Donnelly said, not specifically naming who asked for the offer to be matched.

De Sousa played last year on the Jayhawks’ Final Four team and is returning for his sophomore season.
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So ironic that Kansas needed the help inside with Preston not playing. I wonder who would have wanted him to commit to Kansas....I guess they just got really lucky landing him at the most opportune time.
 
UKnCincy said:
And it would be a miscarriage of justice to send someone to prison for this stuff. FBI really shouldn’t be involved with this case in the first place.

If Adidas failed to pay a portion of their taxes because of how these payments were classified, then have the IRS audit them, figure out the amount they should have paid and add penalties, and then have Adidas pay that amount. Case closed.

As far as fraud is concerned, I have a hard time buying the argument that Gatto defrauded the school by helping them get what the school wanted in the first place. The idea that the schools are a victim here is a major stretch in my opinion. The schools are simply trying to save their hides from two things: 1. NCAA penalties and 2. how their perceived involvement would negatively impact the narrative in on-going antitrust lawsuits.

FBI needs to do a better job of sticking to their mandate in my opinion.
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I agree with you about the FBI. I believe their reputation has totally been eradicated.
 
Wouldn’t be surprised if two guys who may be Top 3 lottery picks next year never play a college game - Zion and Nassir Little.
 
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And here is The Jailhawks statement from the Rug Doctor his self!! Dispite what the FBI is saying about us , we all know it’s not true(cough) and they are great kids and speak seven languages and should be able to play right away !!! Myself and the Jailhawk university are taking the Dook approach to the rest of these hearings and findings, we are simply not going to respond or talk about it.

Regards

Bill “The Rug Doctor “ Self
Head basketball coach Jailhawk University
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
I still think this thing will be too big for any major punishment to any school unless it's a case like Louisville where they have you on tape saying the dumbest shit imaginable.

I'm also not cool with a school being punished because a player took money from someone else. If it's from that school, sure. But if Joe Schmoe gives Player X a million dollars to go to School A and the player takes that money but goes elsewhere, School B shouldn't get punished for having that kid.
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Do you honestly think that these kids in question that was offered $150,000 at other schools signed with other schools for no money?
 
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Cat Ballou said:
Wouldn’t be surprised if two guys who may be Top 3 lottery picks next year never play a college game - Zion and Nassir Little.
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Not holding my breath on that scenario but if it happened would espn even mention it for more than a couple of days?
 
kev69 said:
I agree with you about the FBI. I believe their reputation has totally been eradicated.
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What I can’t fathom is why the FBI thought this was a good idea when they had tried it once before and got embarrassed.

The argument they’re trying to make with respect to Gatto and fraud is virtually identical to the fraud argument they tried to make against Norby Walters in the late 80’s.

Walters wanted to get into the sports agent business and decided the best route was to sign athletes to a contract while in college, post date the contract for after their eligibility was up and then give athletes loans, cash and cars while in school. He’s the reason Cris Carter was ruled ineligible his senior year at Ohio State.

The Feds argued that Walters defrauded the universities by deceiving them and causing them to offer scholarships to ineligible players (sound familiar?). A jury convicted Walters but he appealed saying he did this but that it wasn’t a crime.

7th Circuit agreed with Walters and overturned the fraud conviction saying that paying athletes is not a crime and that no fraud had been committed. The court shredded the prosecution’s arguments and the Department of Justice essentially got their ass handed to them by the judges.

Yet here we are nearly 30 years later with another waste of federal resources and abuse of prosecutorial discretion. It’s absurd.
 
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