We'll see. He is a heck of an athlete, but I am not convinced that he can play the perimeter well enough to be an all-star at the next level.
Dook running 5-out motion offense, all three frosh forwards start
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We'll see. He is a heck of an athlete, but I am not convinced that he can play the perimeter well enough to be an all-star at the next level.
Some numbers people miss out on about Golden State, while being blinded by 3 pointers.
Golden State was 17th in the NBA in 3 point attempts last year. Starting with their first title, that ranking has been 4, 18, 5, and 17. Of course, they've led the league in 3 pt % 3 of 4 of those years, but in addition to that, they've been 2, 1, 1, 1 in 2 pt percentage (and that's despite not having any kind of traditional post game), and have been #1 in assists, by fairly large margins (absurdly large in 16-17), all 4 of those years.
I guess you can make the argument that having the shooting is what leads to all of that, but I don't think the shooting is anywhere near as dominant without the passing.
They have two guys you have to guard closely as soon as they cross mid court, most everyone else can also shoot threes, everyone can pass, and everyone can execute any screen in the book multiple times per possession. It creates a lot of space and a lot of easy buckets.
I had one other thought here... really, if you look at the complement of his roster, Coach K has little choice but to try something new and different. If you're not wearing Duke-blue-tinted glasses, what you're probably saying is that this change in offensive scheme from one that has brought him multiple titles and Final 4's is more a reflection on his lack of any consistent interior scorer or really even a complete roster. This says he doesn't have a complete or balanced team. That's the truth of the matter. But this "five out is the only way we'll play from now, on" is just spin.
Edit: We all saw this on their Canada tour, by the way. Several here recognized this is an incomplete team and that their traditional approach wasn't going to work when they played against real competition.
Edit: We all saw this on their Canada tour, by the way. Several here recognized this is an incomplete team and that their traditional approach wasn't going to work when they played against real competition.
Simple, he put it out in the media "Duke will resemble the stacked Golden State Warriors." Kids in high school will see / read that and hopefully think "Man they play like Golden State, run and gun and score a lot of points, i want to play there." All that is about is K wanting to try and attract elite recruits. Proof is in the pudding. If Duke struggles shooting, and are not a good defensive team like in the past, this will back fire big time.
I don't know how this broke down last season but a couple seasons ago they were also at or near the bottom in ball screens and at or near the top in off the ball screens. The shooting spaces the floor and without it you can cheat back inside, but excellent off ball motion and passing makes the offense run.
I know they're near the bottom of the league in pick and roll plays. And the funny thing about them last year was that they were #1 in 2 pt % despite taking more mid-range shots than any team in the league. That indicates to me that a lot of teams are trying to chase them off the 3 point line, and Golden State is basically saying "fine by us".
That's how Durant makes them nearly unbeatable. Overplaying the 3 point shooters with big defenders is how Cleveland beat them in 2016, but now with Durant, it's never going to work as well. He'll dribble around guys flying out at him on the 3 point line and hit 15-18 foot shots all day.
Bagley was the #1 player in high school ball, even after classification.
If you post links from spring through summer, you're already outside of what I'm arguing and only heighten the point that Bagley's stock decreased the longer he played in K's zone and showed a limitation defensively. Ayton, a player who has been questioned as lazy and possessing a poor motor, still managed to go ahead of Bagley. Why is this? Perhaps it has something to do with scouts not believing that Bagley can perform on one side of the court?
Note: each article specifically says Bagley is either the front runner for #1 pick in the draft and/or the top player in high school ball, regardless of class.
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/08/17/marvin-bagley-nba-draft-2018-prospect-duke-rankings
https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...ng-for-the-school-he-picks-and-college-hoops/ says he's the most ready prospect since LeBron.
https://usatodayhss.com/2017/espn-100-recruiting-rankings-marvin-bagley-zion-williamson calls him a one-in-a-decade prospect
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...o-duke-makes-blue-devils-undisputed-team-beat says he'll be the best player in college basketball
https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...gley-iii-to-announce-college-decision-monday/ calls him the best prospect in the world
https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article167233632.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/marvin-bagley-jr-nation-top-031210085.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/marvin-bagley-makes-duke-team-beat/story?id=49219675
https://nesn.com/2017/08/no-1-recruit-marvin-bagley-iii-commits-to-duke-will-wear-a-retired-number/
https://thesixersense.com/2017/07/1...n-bagley-change-outlook-markelle-fultz-trade/
https://www.slamonline.com/college-hs/high-school/duke-lands-no-1-hs-recruit-marvin-bagley-iii/
https://usatodayhss.com/2017/marvin...-rankings-right-move-missouri-duke-krzyzewski
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...vin-bagley-iii-commits-duke-article-1.3412099
https://www.dailynews.com/2017/08/1...i-commits-to-duke-reclassifies-to-2017-class/
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa...ils-ncaa-tournament/llxt7ruhi4h01assh2e6273um
https://hoopshabit.com/2017/07/31/marvin-bagley-iii-change-2018-nba-draft-one-move/
https://newarena.com/college-basket...n-will-shake-up-college-basketball-landscape/ best high school player since LeBron
http://www.latimes.com/sports/highs...-marvin-bagley-sondheimer-20170803-story.html
https://www.vuhoops.com/2017/7/17/1...rvin-bagley-reclass-decision-arizona-duke-usc
http://theunderdogsports.com/marvin-bagley-iii-reclassifies-commits-to-usc/
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article167234487.html
https://www.syracuse.com/axeman/ind...ke_could_make_blue_devils_preseason_no_1.html
https://www.chatsports.com/duke-blu...sification-commitment-marvin-bagley-iii-34581
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ke-and-intends-to-play-in-2017/?noredirect=on
https://usatodayhss.com/2017/no-1-p...duke-usc-ucla-will-reclass-to-2017-krzyzewski
https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...-iii-recruiting-duke-usc-reclassify-nba-draft
https://www.obsev.com/sports/happens-nations-no-1-high-school-player-tries-guard-demar-derozan.html
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/5/9/15515986/marvin-bagley-iii-dad-basketball-recruiting-2018
https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...asketball-recruiting-drew-league-z/549343001/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianm...ke-super-freshmans-torrid-start/#5f504604226f
https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...college-decision-espn-monday-night/563624001/
https://fansided.com/2017/08/15/marvin-bagley-iii-2018-nba-draft-duke-declare/
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/recru...te-time-predictions-2018-2017-reclassify-date
https://www.forbes.com/sites/allens...-knicks-to-pass-on-kyrie-irving/#73804a22665b
https://hoopshype.com/2017/08/15/can-marvin-bagley-iii-become-the-no-1-pick-in-the-2018-nba-draft/
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/...ley-iii-decision-college-basketball-nba-draft
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You shouldn't need any validation from us. Your flawless coach is all the validation you need; what with him only producing one overall #1 pick since Brand and all - and that guy being the fabled Kyrie Irving, who spent about 80% of his time in Durham in rehab.
Jabari Parker was the next LeBron.
Okafor was a generational talent.
Bagley was the top prospect on the planet.
The common denominator: all of them were drafted directly after guys who had massive work ethic questions: Russell before Okafor; Wiggins before Parker, and Ayton before Bagley.
K has three plus decades as the face of college ball with a limitless supply of elite prospects, access to Team USA, NCAA protection, assistants who got away with murder, and he still only has two overall #1 picks.
How does that happen?
FYI. These are from 2017 after he reclassed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...018-michael-porter-goes-no-1-to-the-cavs/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/hoopshabit.com/2017/12/23/2018-nba-mock-draft-end-2017-edition/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/orland...way-too-early-look-at-the-2018-nba-draft/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/aroyalpain.com/2017/09/01/2018-nba-mock-draft-1-0/amp/
It's implicit in my argument that they both were seen as generational talent.
That said, I knew your counter-argument would result in hiding behind literal interpretation of my words, while denying my statement its obvious intent.
And make no mistake, "hiding" is what your argument has amounted to.
I have no doubt you'll be hiding again a lot this season.
If you haven’t noticed, I’m always around. Even when Duke sucks or gets knocked out by Mercer.
And?
Your argument essentially comes down to this: Bagley wasn't overwhelmingly projected as the #1 overall pick, so his stock didn't drop at Duke. A literal interpretation of my Davis statement is inconsequential because it has nothing to do with your argument. I've already provided about 10x the evidence you did based on Bagley being projected as the #1 pick.
A passing comment that he’s the best prospect since doesn’t equate to #1 pick. I provided mock drafts where people actually had to sit down and rank those players in the order they will be drafted. Some of those had him as low as #4. Are there 10x as many mock drafts in that time period that have him #1?
So you think Tyler Watts of "fansided", with his 1,200 twitter followers, is more reliable than LA times, Washington Post, Sports Illustrated, Slam Online, ESPN, CBS, 247, and Forbes magazine? So long as I "sit down" and rank players and post it online, I automatically trump all those established papers and mags because they made a "passing comment". Who knew that Grandma Watts' basement would be the launching point of such an incredible societal sports impact when it comes to gauging the draft.
Good to know. You're pulling discount sources from the bargain bin and slapping the word "credible" on them.
Didn't have to. One look at Tyler Watts' picture and I was convinced of his expertise. He looks like a sixteen year old Elton John. Dude probably has a solid file drawer of quantitative draft info that he keeps stored in his Grandma's basement davenport desk.
Didn't have to. One look at Tyler Watts' picture and I was convinced of his expertise. He looks like a sixteen year old Elton John. Dude probably has a solid file drawer of quantitative draft info that he keeps stored in his Grandma's basement davenport desk.
But you said I slapped the word credible on them... which is factually incorrect.
"BUT, this 2018/19 PUKE team and Tre Jones are NOT going to have a Senior PG (Quinn Cook) as a stabilizing force like Tyus Jones and 2014/15 PUKE team did"
This is what would worry me most if I were a Duke fan. All five of their national championship winning teams had those juniors and seniors who were major components. I don't see that guy on their 2018-2019 team.
This is what would worry me most if I were a Duke fan. All five of their national championship winning teams had those juniors and seniors who were major components. I don't see that guy on their 2018-2019 team.
I can't blame you for wanting to shift the debate to irrelevant technicalities since your only real ammo was the same worthless web source essentially re-framed through four mediums.
I’ve provided what I said I would... you haven’t. It’s not that hard. I told you K is bad at player development but I made a single point at the beginning of this discussion and have backed up with evidence.
Incorrect.
You've intentionally downplayed a very obvious point I made about level of impact. You chose to ignore my intent in the discussion because you enjoy arguing (although you're not very good at it). That much is clear.
Your source evidence was and is terrible. If you wish you say you've won the day, have at it, but your argument was atrocious and I've lost respect for your ability to discuss a subject intelligently.
The only thing uniquely his that I can place is the flop...and ain't that a helluva thing to be noted for?
Why do you keep moving the goalposts? Have you provided a single mock draft that contradicts my statement? No. Have you provided a single article that said Bagley would have the same impact as Davis? No.
That is literally the only points that we’re made at the beginning of this. You said he was projected #1 so show me where that was? Why is that so hard for you to do?
Who's moving goal posts? Please provide proof that I literally moved a goal post.
Now do you see how dumb your argument looks/reads/sounds?
Lots of people talk about “ best player since Lebron” or “generational talent” every class but when it comes down to actually talking about the draft there can only be one #1 pick. People have said some outlandish things about Zion this year but most don’t have him as the #1 pick. When push came to shove after Bagley reclassed most mocks that I saw had Bagley in the 2-4 range. Which is why I made that statement. That’s it.
I made this same statement here around draft time and even used the way back machine to provide additional evidence at that time. But it’s not worth it at this point because you have made up your mind and aren’t accepting evidence that is contrary to what you think happened.
I accept that Tyler Watts and a few others didn't think Bagley was a generational talent.
I also accept that about 35 other sources, including Forbes, SI, ESPN, LA Times and others, did.
I do appreciate your civil response instead of us deteriorating into more technical word play.
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