Daily hypothetical
- Thread starter morgousky
- Start date
I vote Gilchrist. His work ethic made everyone around him better. If we had Meeks in 2010 we would have gone undefeated and Cal would have left by now.
I think '15 had a hole in the roster that we filled with Lyles. MKG on '14 and '15 might have been back to back.
You sure?
Yes.
You don't think a Senior MKG added to the '15 team goes 40-0 and wins the title? Senior MKG locks Dekker down for sure.
Plus Soph MKG keeps us out of the NIT in '13.
Then as a Junior, he probably wins the title again. Remember that team almost won the title anyway.
Three more years of MKG likely gets us two more titles plus keeps us out of the NIT in '13.
As far as hypotheticals go, this one is a no-brainier to me.
First I thought Meeks in 10 but after further review you can't argue with this post.
It's not even close. It's MKG.
The argument for Meeks is that 09-10 would be unbeatable with his shooting, which is probably true.
But I think 15 is just as unbeatable with MKG at the three, especially as a senior. Imagine his leadership, intangibles, clutch performance, etc by that point.
So that's a wash.
Then you have MKG to guard UConn's small ball and even to replace Randle at the 4 when he cramed up. I think we get the 14 title too.
And I think MKG also makes that 13 team so much better defensively, gives us another guy who can create so Archie doesn't have to put his head down and go 1-on-5, and is another guy Archie could trust in transition.
They don't win it, but they definitely make the tournament, and if the season all plays out differently, who knows if Nerlens is even in position to hurt his knee at Florida.
I think 4 years of MKG (assuming all else is equal and recruiting doesn't shift due to his presence) yields at least two titles, likely three, and a couple of POY honors for him.
The argument for Meeks is that 09-10 would be unbeatable with his shooting, which is probably true.
But I think 15 is just as unbeatable with MKG at the three, especially as a senior. Imagine his leadership, intangibles, clutch performance, etc by that point.
So that's a wash.
Then you have MKG to guard UConn's small ball and even to replace Randle at the 4 when he cramed up. I think we get the 14 title too.
And I think MKG also makes that 13 team so much better defensively, gives us another guy who can create so Archie doesn't have to put his head down and go 1-on-5, and is another guy Archie could trust in transition.
They don't win it, but they definitely make the tournament, and if the season all plays out differently, who knows if Nerlens is even in position to hurt his knee at Florida.
I think 4 years of MKG (assuming all else is equal and recruiting doesn't shift due to his presence) yields at least two titles, likely three, and a couple of POY honors for him.
2010 needed a 3 point shooter, Meeks filled that
While 2015 needed an MKG...they still were 38-1 and they had a guy to fill that role (Poythress) that got hurt. Defense was not a problem, we struggled in halfcourt sets at time..but our length and depth had us playing great D.
Sure, we remember the Wisconsin players we needed to stop...but we lost that game because we could not figure out any offense at the end of the year outside of KAT's post game.
While 2015 needed an MKG...they still were 38-1 and they had a guy to fill that role (Poythress) that got hurt. Defense was not a problem, we struggled in halfcourt sets at time..but our length and depth had us playing great D.
Sure, we remember the Wisconsin players we needed to stop...but we lost that game because we could not figure out any offense at the end of the year outside of KAT's post game.
Good question!
Meeks might have made the 2010 team the best Cal has had. And that was one of the teams that really steamrolled competition for the majority of the season. Meeks certainly makes Kentucky the heavy favorite. We probably win the title. But is there a chance for 40-0 with Meeks? I think so.
MKG wouldn't have done much to help 2013, IMO. He doesn't stop Nerlens from blowing his knee out, and that team really needed more scoring.. But in 2014, we have a great shot to win that title, with MKG being a nightmare as a junior. In 2015, we probably win the whole thing. MKG would cover Poythress' injury. But, do we get all the recruits in 2015 (or 2014) with MKG still here?
You have to go with MKG +3 yearts as opposed to Meeks for +1. Just too many more opprotunities for titles, and maybe we grab an Elite 8 in 2013. But the better question is, would you take Meeks for just +2 years.. That's much more difficult.
Meeks might have made the 2010 team the best Cal has had. And that was one of the teams that really steamrolled competition for the majority of the season. Meeks certainly makes Kentucky the heavy favorite. We probably win the title. But is there a chance for 40-0 with Meeks? I think so.
MKG wouldn't have done much to help 2013, IMO. He doesn't stop Nerlens from blowing his knee out, and that team really needed more scoring.. But in 2014, we have a great shot to win that title, with MKG being a nightmare as a junior. In 2015, we probably win the whole thing. MKG would cover Poythress' injury. But, do we get all the recruits in 2015 (or 2014) with MKG still here?
You have to go with MKG +3 yearts as opposed to Meeks for +1. Just too many more opprotunities for titles, and maybe we grab an Elite 8 in 2013. But the better question is, would you take Meeks for just +2 years.. That's much more difficult.
Does MKG get to play on the 2012 team that won it all?
Because if that's the case. Since banners aren't guaranteed. I'd take the one year of Meeks in '10 and the one of MKG in '12 than take the last 3 years of MKG. I think Meeks in 2010 would've been as sure fire as a banner that we would get.
Meeks on that 2010 team would have made one of the most perfect starting lineups in college basketball history. The most athletic back court possibly ever, an undersized Meeks playing the three but a lights out 3-point shooter, Patterson controlling the four spot and Boogie dominated at Center. Bench including Dodson, Orton, Miller, Liggins and Stevenson. That team goes 40-0
MKG obviously had a huge impact on the title team. He would have been the best player in college basketball the following year. That recruiting class and that NBA draft were arguably the worst classes we've seen in 20 years. Michigan won that year with a decent team, a handful of guys that went on to the NBA. But if MKG stays, and let's say that alters history and Nerlens doesn't go down against Florida, maybe Harrow doesn't have his nervous breakdown because of a guy like MKG leading the way. Starting lineup goes Harrow, Archie, KMG, Wiltjer, Nerlens. Poy, WCS and Mays all coming off the bench. Polson proving that he is a serviceable backup PG. That team certainly doesn't lose to Robert Morris in the NIT.
For his junior year, to try and be as realistic as possible let's say MKG's return causes James Young to go elsewhere. Twins, MKG, Randle, Willie as starters. Poythress, Dakari, Marcus, Hawkins and Willis our primary reserves. Hard to say that the magic of that season would repeat itself if you change anything, but with MKG we certainly are not an 8 seed so that drastically changes the outcome of that year.
Senior year for MKG...holy s#it. Let's look at how ridiculous this would have been. Twins, MKG, Towns, WCS as Platoon 1. Ulis, Booker, Poythress, Lyles, Dakari as Platoon 2. Not even enough room for Marcus Lee on the first two teams. That is beyond absurd. That's 40-0 and it has the vibe of a uconn women's 40-0 where they just annihilate every team by 30+ points.
The pain from that 2010 loss to WVU and knowing that we just needed a guy on the court who could break the 1-3-1 with some made threes, and knowing that Meeks could have stayed is something that will forever haunt me as a UK fan. But four years of MKG? As impractical as it would have been for him to stay in college for four years? I'm taking that simply for the platoon year and what could have been the most ridiculous "super team" ever assembled in college basketball.
MKG obviously had a huge impact on the title team. He would have been the best player in college basketball the following year. That recruiting class and that NBA draft were arguably the worst classes we've seen in 20 years. Michigan won that year with a decent team, a handful of guys that went on to the NBA. But if MKG stays, and let's say that alters history and Nerlens doesn't go down against Florida, maybe Harrow doesn't have his nervous breakdown because of a guy like MKG leading the way. Starting lineup goes Harrow, Archie, KMG, Wiltjer, Nerlens. Poy, WCS and Mays all coming off the bench. Polson proving that he is a serviceable backup PG. That team certainly doesn't lose to Robert Morris in the NIT.
For his junior year, to try and be as realistic as possible let's say MKG's return causes James Young to go elsewhere. Twins, MKG, Randle, Willie as starters. Poythress, Dakari, Marcus, Hawkins and Willis our primary reserves. Hard to say that the magic of that season would repeat itself if you change anything, but with MKG we certainly are not an 8 seed so that drastically changes the outcome of that year.
Senior year for MKG...holy s#it. Let's look at how ridiculous this would have been. Twins, MKG, Towns, WCS as Platoon 1. Ulis, Booker, Poythress, Lyles, Dakari as Platoon 2. Not even enough room for Marcus Lee on the first two teams. That is beyond absurd. That's 40-0 and it has the vibe of a uconn women's 40-0 where they just annihilate every team by 30+ points.
The pain from that 2010 loss to WVU and knowing that we just needed a guy on the court who could break the 1-3-1 with some made threes, and knowing that Meeks could have stayed is something that will forever haunt me as a UK fan. But four years of MKG? As impractical as it would have been for him to stay in college for four years? I'm taking that simply for the platoon year and what could have been the most ridiculous "super team" ever assembled in college basketball.
Well no Meeks no '10, but MKG on '15 we might win.
So basically we are swapping Meeks for the '10 or MKG for the '15. Pretty much a wash if you ask me.
I mean it's a great thought I know. but nothing guaranteed like '10 or '15.
Didn't we get screwed on the reffing that year with Showboat Shabazz?
I'm going Meeks with this one. In this hypothetical, I am saying he takes the place of Dodson on the roster. That is the most beautiful line-up ever created:
PG - Wall
SG - Meeks
SF - Miller
PF - Patterson
C - Boogie
Bledsoe, Liggins, Orton and Harris (if needed) off the bench.
IMO, if that team went 40-0, partnered with their NBA success, they would hands down be the greatest college team ever. I know we are basing this on college, but the NBA success of those first 6 guys could never be matched imo.
PG - Wall
SG - Meeks
SF - Miller
PF - Patterson
C - Boogie
Bledsoe, Liggins, Orton and Harris (if needed) off the bench.
IMO, if that team went 40-0, partnered with their NBA success, they would hands down be the greatest college team ever. I know we are basing this on college, but the NBA success of those first 6 guys could never be matched imo.
Nothing is ever guaranteed. Therefore I would have to take 3 extra years of MKG. That would have been a boosted chance on 3 teams instead of one. It's interesting....the 2015 team was one of the greatest defensive teams ever. And we would have been adding arguably the best defensive sf we've ever had.
I'll take Meeks just because I liked his shooting motion and MKG wasn't a dependable 15 ppl player.
MKG in the long haul. But I sure as hell would have loved to have seen Meeks on that 2010 team. I have no doubt that team goes 40-0.
Exactly how I feel. Damn, that 2010 team would have been unreal with Jodie.
MKG on the 2015 team would have been the biggest defensive monster in the history of college basketball. We were stupidly good at defense with Poythress in the lineup, but we'd have had zero weaknesses with MKG added. MKG shuts Dekker down, we go 40-0. No question about it. And you're right, we may have gone back to back (though with a championship maybe more guys leave after 2014?). We put MKG on Napier in the championship and it's a very different game.
Meeks with Wall/Bledsoe/Patterson/Cousins would have been absurd though. That team was so fun to watch, and if you add a shooter like Meeks, there'd have been no defensive strategy to use against them. The only reason to pick MKG is that you could get 2 titles out of it, instead of 1 with Meeks.
I beg to differ. Defense was the issue in that Wisconsin game and the main culprits are the two many say should have played more aka Ulis and Booker. Especially Booker. If he was on the floor they would just switch a little until he was guarding Dekker and then it was a basket.
I'm also unclear of what other offense was needed, it was get KAT the ball and into the basket it went.
Stop Dekker and that one is an easy win because then we could slow Frank the Tank down more effectively as well.
MKG was the 2nd pick of the draft. Meeks was 2nd round of the draft. I loved Meeks, but obviously MKG for 3 years>Meeks for 1 extra year. Doesn't matter which year. Unfortunately 2010 just wasn't meant to be. Probably the most talented college team Kentucky has ever seen, without Meeks. That team set the bar for what UK has become, so they will always have a special place within the program, no doubt.
I'll take MKG for 3 more years and a chance at a couple more rings by a hair over the near lock of one more with Meeks.
I do think it is closer than some say though. It takes a lot less extrapolating and "imagine ifs" to see the path to 2010 with Meeks added to the mix.
I do think it is closer than some say though. It takes a lot less extrapolating and "imagine ifs" to see the path to 2010 with Meeks added to the mix.
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