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CI Wrestling Thread #56

Is the Sting match going be an actual match? I just assumed it’d be a cinematic match, but now I’m not sure.

Curious how they set up for the Mox/Omega match. I went to a few IWA:MS shows where it took awhile for them to take the ropes down and wrap the barbwire. I guess if the Sting match is cinematic, they could show that while setting up the ring.
 
Both shows went up again in the ratings

AEW- 831,000 .35 in 18-49 5th place, 3rd in Males 18-49

NXT- 734,000 .18 in 18-49 24th place

GGG- 632,000 .22 in 18-49 13th in 18-49
 
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Imagine someone calling a segment where Sting is moving around like he’s 35 doing a scorpion death drop and Darby zip lines to the ring from the rafters, generic. There’s some real oddballs in here.

On a sad note, NWA’s Josephus/The Question Mark has died. I didn’t see him much but still it shocked me when I saw the news. Hate that for his family. Young guy. Tennessee native. Corgen might want to start thinking about trying to sell nwa.
 
WeWant9 said:
Is the Sting match going be an actual match? I just assumed it’d be a cinematic match, but now I’m not sure.

Curious how they set up for the Mox/Omega match. I went to a few IWA:MS shows where it took awhile for them to take the ropes down and wrap the barbwire. I guess if the Sting match is cinematic, they could show that while setting up the ring.
Click to expand...
I assumed cinematic at first as well but Khan said yesterday that Sting is “fully cleared” to wrestle so it might be a normal match. Personally I’d go cinematic with it being his first one. Plus they can use that time to setup the ring for the main event.
 
Wrestling Observer Newsletter Awards 2020
As usual: voted on by Observer subscribers, not decided by Dave himself.
Category A Awards
Lou Thesz/Ric Flair Award (Wrestler of the Year)
  1. Jon Moxley
  2. Kenny Omega
  3. Tetsuya Naito
  4. Kota Ibushi
  5. Drew McIntyre
  6. Bayley
  7. Go Shiozaki
  8. Roman Reigns
  9. Mayu Iwatani
  10. Chris Jericho
Most Outstanding Wrestler
  1. Kenny Omega
  2. Kota Ibushi
  3. Shingo Takagi
  4. Tomohiro Ishii
  5. Will Ospreay
  6. Minoru Suzuki
  7. Kazuchika Okada
  8. Hiromu Takahashi
  9. Go Shiozaki
  10. Rey Fénix
Tag Team of the Year
  1. Young Bucks
  2. Kenny Omega & Adam Page
  3. FTR
  4. Dangerous Tekkers
  5. Bayley & Sasha Banks
  6. The North
  7. Best Friends
  8. Lucha Brothers
  9. Hiroshi Tanahashi & Kota Ibushi
  10. (Tied) Santana & Ortiz, Bobby Fish & Kyle O'Reilly
Best on Interviews
  1. Eddie Kingston
  2. Jon Moxley
  3. MJF
  4. Cody Rhodes
  5. Chris Jericho
  6. Taz
  7. Roman Reigns
  8. Jay White
  9. Pat McAfee
  10. Randy Orton
Promotion of the Year
  1. AEW
  2. NJPW
  3. WWE
  4. Stardom
  5. UFC
  6. Pro Wrestling Noah
  7. Impact Wrestling
  8. Dragon Gate
  9. ROH
  10. DDT
Best Weekly TV Show
  1. AEW Dynamite
  2. WWE NXT
  3. Being the Elite
  4. AEW Dark
  5. WWE SmackDown
  6. NJPW Strong
  7. ROH
  8. Impact Wrestling
  9. MLW Fusion
  10. WWE NXT UK
Match of the Year
  1. Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Young Bucks (AEW Revolution)
  2. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kota Ibushi (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 1)
  3. FTR vs. Young Bucks (AEW Full Gear)
  4. Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 2)
  5. Ilja Dragunov vs. WALTER (NXT UK, October 2020)
  6. Kota Ibushi vs. Minoru Suzuki (NJPW G1 Climax, Night 13)
  7. Hiromu Takahashi vs. Will Ospreay (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 1)
  8. Go Shiozaki vs. Takashi Sugiura (Noah Final Chronicle)
  9. Stadium Stampede (AEW Double or Nothing)
  10. Adam Page, Alex Reynolds & John Silver vs. MJF, Ortiz & Santana (AEW Dynamite - Brodie Lee Tribute Show)
Category B Awards
US/Canada MVP
  1. Jon Moxley
  2. Kenny Omega
  3. Cody Rhodes
  4. Drew McIntyre
  5. Roman Reigns
  6. Chris Jericho
  7. Bayley
  8. Adam Cole
  9. Adam Page
Japan MVP
  1. Tetsuya Naito
  2. Kota Ibushi
  3. Go Shiozaki
  4. Kazuchika Okada
  5. Mayu Iwatani
  6. Minoru Suzuki
  7. Hiromu Takahashi
  8. Will Ospreay
  9. Tomohiro Ishii
  10. Shingo Takagi
Mexico MVP
  1. Rey Fénix
  2. Laredo Kid
  3. Pagano
  4. LA Park
  5. Volador, Jr.
  6. Psycho Clown
  7. Kenny Omega
  8. Rush
  9. Pentagón, Jr.
  10. Ultimo Guerrero
Europe MVP
  1. WALTER
  2. Will Ospreay
  3. Zack Sabre, Jr.
  4. Cara Noir
  5. Ilja Dragunov
Non-Heavyweight MVP
  1. Hiromu Takahashi
  2. Rey Fénix
  3. Darby Allin
  4. Rey Mysterio
  5. El Phantasmo
Women's MVP
  1. Bayley
  2. Mayu Iwatani
  3. Sasha Banks
  4. Asuka
  5. Hikaru Shida
  6. Io Shirai
  7. Giulia
  8. Thunder Rosa
  9. Yuka Sakazaki
  10. (Tied) Britt Baker, Hana Kimura, Serena Deeb
Best Box Office Draw
  1. Conor McGregor
  2. Jon Moxley
  3. Chris Jericho
  4. Tetsuya Naito
  5. Roman Reigns
  6. Kenny Omega
  7. Young Bucks
  8. Khabib Nurmagomedov
  9. Jorge Masvidal
  10. Cody Rhodes
Feud of the Year
  1. Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW)
  2. Cody Rhodes vs. Brodie Lee (AEW)
  3. Adam Page vs. Kenny Omega (AEW)
  4. Jon Moxley vs. Chris Jericho (AEW)
  5. FTR vs. Young Bucks (AEW)
  6. MJF vs. Cody Rhodes (AEW)
  7. Adam Page & Kenny Omega vs. Young Bucks (AEW)
  8. Jey Uso vs. Roman Reigns (WWE)
  9. The Elite vs. The Inner Circle (AEW)
  10. Edge vs. Randy Orton (WWE)
Most Improved
  1. Britt Baker
  2. Giulia
  3. John Silver
  4. Taichi
  5. Jungle Boy
  6. Brodie Lee
  7. Roman Reigns
  8. Tay Conti
  9. YOSHI-HASHI
  10. Adam Page
Most Charismatic
  1. MJF
  2. Orange Cassidy
  3. Jon Moxley
  4. Hiroshi Tanahashi
  5. Eddie Kingston
  6. Chris Jericho
  7. Cody Rhodes
  8. Tetsuya Naito
  9. Kenny Omega
  10. Ricky Starks
Bryan Danielson Award (Best Technical Wrestler)
  1. Zack Sabre, Jr.
  2. Daniel Bryan
  3. Jonathan Gresham
  4. Kyle O'Reilly
  5. Timothy Thatcher
  6. Will Ospreay
  7. Kenny Omega
  8. Minoru Suzuki
  9. Syuri
  10. Kota Ibushi
Bruiser Brody Memorial Award (Best Brawler)
  1. Jon Moxley
  2. Tomohiro Ishii
  3. Brodie Lee
  4. Minoru Suzuki
  5. Shingo Takagi
  6. Eddie Kingston
  7. WALTER
  8. Matthew Justice
Best Flying Wrestler
  1. Rey Fénix
  2. Will Ospreay
  3. Hiromu Takahashi
  4. Nick Jackson
  5. Darby Allin
  6. Dragon Dia
  7. Rey Mysterio
  8. Matt Jackson
  9. (Tied) El Hijo Del Vikingo, Bandido
Most Overrated (= most over-pushed)
  1. Bray Wyatt
  2. EVIL
  3. King Corbin
  4. Nia Jax
  5. Braun Strowman
  6. Goldberg
  7. Cody Rhodes
  8. (Tied) Seth Rollins, The Miz
  9. Charlotte Flair
Most Underrated (= most under-pushed)
  1. Ricochet
  2. Chad Gable
  3. Riddle
  4. (Tied) Cesaro, Mustafa Ali
  5. Keith Lee
  6. Tomohiro Ishii
  7. Rey Fénix
  8. Toa Henare
  9. Aleister Black
Rookie of the Year
  1. Pat McAfee
  2. Anna Jay
  3. SB KENTo
  4. Dominik Mysterio
  5. Top Flight
  6. Will Hobbs
  7. Benjamin Carter
  8. Blake Christian
  9. Alan Angels
  10. Yuki Mashiro
Best Non-Wrestler
  1. Taz
  2. Paul Heyman
  3. Don Callis
  4. Tony Schiavone
  5. Jake Roberts
  6. Adam Pearce
  7. Zelina Vega
Best Television Announcer
  1. Excalibur
  2. Kevin Kelly
  3. Tony Schiavone
  4. Jim Ross
  5. Mark Pickering
  6. Hugo Savinovich
  7. Wade Barrett
  8. Chris Jericho
  9. Ian Riccobani
  10. (Tied) Jae Church, Samoa Joe
Worst Television Announcer
  1. Michael Cole
  2. Corey Graves
  3. Beth Phoenix
  4. Jim Ross
  5. Josh Mathews
  6. Byron Saxton
  7. Tom Phillips
  8. Madison Rayne
  9. Vic Joseph
Best Major Wrestling Show
  1. AEW Revolution
  2. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 1
  3. NJPW G1 Climax, Night 13
  4. AEW Dynamite (Brodie Lee Tribute Show)
  5. AEW Double or Nothing
  6. AEW Full Gear
  7. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 2
  8. WWE Royal Rumble
  9. NXT TakeOver: Portland
Worst Major Wrestling Show
  1. WWE Super ShowDown
  2. WWE The Horror Show at Extreme Rules
  3. WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 2
  4. WWE Money in the Bank
  5. AEW All Out
  6. WWE Survivor Series
  7. WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 1
  8. WWE TLC
Best Wrestling Manoeuvre
  1. One Winged Angel (Kenny Omega)
  2. Buckshot Lariat (Adam Page)
  3. Buckshot V-Trigger (Adam Page & Kenny Omega)
  4. Kamigoye (Kota Ibushi)
  5. (Tied) Paradigm Shift (Jon Moxley), Hidden Blade (Will Ospreay)
  6. Stormbreaker (Will Ospreay)
  7. Coffin Drop (Darby Allin)
  8. Pumping Bomber (Shingo Takagi)
  9. Whirling Candy (Mizuki)
  10. Black Arrow (Pac)
Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic
  1. WWE firing everyone during a pandemic
  2. WWE operating without COVID testing
  3. WWE banning talent from third party opportunities
  4. WWE running in Saudi Arabia
  5. AEW continuing Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara
  6. Rey Mysterio losing his eye angle
  7. Dana White attempting to run a show on a Native American reservation
  8. (Tied) WWE continuing to employ wrestlers with sexual misconduct allegations, Bushiroad handling the death of Hana Kimura
  9. WWE turning Drake Maverick firing into storyline
Worst Television Show
  1. WWE Raw
  2. Impact Wrestling
  3. WWE SmackDown
  4. ROH
  5. (Tied) WWE NXT, WWE 205 Live
Worst Match of the Year
  1. Braun Strowman vs. The Fiend (WWE The Horror Show at Extreme Rules)
  2. Goldberg vs. The Fiend (WWE Super ShowDown)
  3. Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (AEW All Out)
  4. Edge vs. Randy Orton (WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 2)
  5. Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena (WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 2)
  6. Brock Lesnar vs. Ricochet (WWE Super ShowDown)
  7. Jado vs. Toru Yano (NJPW New Japan Cup, Night 1)
  8. Britt Baker vs. Big Swole (AEW All Out
  9. Randy Orton vs. The Fiend (WWE TLC)
  10. Braun Strowman vs. The Fiend (WWE SummerSlam)
Worst Feud of the Year
  1. Braun Strowman vs. Bray Wyatt (WWE)
  2. Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton (WWE)
  3. Lana vs. Nia Jax (WWE)
  4. Rey Mysterio vs. Seth Rollins (WWE)
  5. EVIL vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW)
  6. Retribution vs. WWE (WWE)
  7. Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (AEW)
  8. Street Profits vs. Viking Raiders (WWE)
  9. (Tied) Jeff Hardy vs. Sheamus (WWE), Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy (AEW)
Worst Promotion of the Year
  1. WWE
  2. Impact Wrestling
  3. ROH
  4. MLW
  5. NJPW
Best Booker
  1. Tony Khan
  2. Gedo
  3. Nosawa Rongai
  4. Rossy Ogawa
  5. Sanshiro Takagi
  6. Paul Levesque
  7. Hunter Johnson
Promoter of the Year
  1. Tony Khan
  2. Dana White
  3. Sanshiro Takagi
  4. Harold Meij
  5. (Tied) Joe Koff, Brett Lauderdale
  6. Vince McMahon
Best Gimmick
  1. Orange Cassidy
  2. Brodie Lee
  3. Roman Reigns
  4. Adam Page
  5. Darby Allin
  6. Kenny Omega
  7. MJF
  8. The Fiend
  9. Eddie Kingston
  10. Dark Order
Worst Gimmick
  1. The Fiend
  2. Retribution
  3. Alexa Bliss
  4. Seth Rollins
  5. Master Wato
  6. Dexter Lumis
  7. King Corbin
  8. Lana
  9. Great-O-Khan
  10. Miro
Best Pro-Wrestling Book
  1. Killing the Business (Young Bucks)
  2. Eighth Wonder of the World (Pat Laprade & Bertrand Hebert)
  3. Under the Black Hat (Jim Ross)
  4. Shamrock: World's Most Dangerous Man (Jonathan Snowden)
  5. Wrestling Observer Yearbook: 1997 (Dave Meltzer)
  6. NJPW Year in Review 2020 (Voices of Wrestling)
  7. Master of the Ring (Tim Hornbaker)
Best Pro-Wrestling Documentary
  1. Dark Side of the Ring: Owen Hart
  2. Dark Side of the Ring: Chris Benoit
  3. WWE The Last Ride
  4. Dark Side of the Ring: Herb Abrams
  5. You Cannot Kill David Arquette
  6. WWE 24: Edge
  7. (Tied) Dark side of the Ring: Brawl for All, AEW Road to Full Gear
  8. Dark Side of the Ring: New Jack
 
[laughing] None of those results are going to sit well with the old guard in this thread (although let's not fool ourselves into believing those results aren't extremely biased).
 
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Lexie's Dad said:
It seems the voters don't like WWE.

I'm astonished.
Click to expand...
WWE pisses me off most of the time so I don't have an issue with anyone bashing them. But you have to remember that only a very small portion of wrestling fans are readers of Dave's garbage. Most of Dave's fans are likeminded and enjoy the same wrestling that Dave does.

But in the end, Meltzer comes off looking like a real tool by worshipping these guys who name wrestling moves after Dave.
 
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I said the other day that Dave was a nice guy and will stand by that but also think I may hate him.
 
Man, I glanced at them earlier, but had a chance to really look them over

Do WON readers seriously consider themselves the “smartest fans”? It’s like they’re giving Cornette and guys like Konnan material, lol
 
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I mean I could possibly agree with some of it but Kenny Omega won virtually every category but most improved.
 
CrittendenWildcat said:
So it's not the product that's the problem, it's the fans???

That's....some take.
Click to expand...
It's both.

As a fan, I try to like things. I don't care for a lot of what WWW does, but...

I still appreciate the wrestlers I like - Danielson, Cesaro, KO, Sammy, Rollins... Huge list.

I don't see how NXT can get a "worst" vote.

Some fans hate all WWE. No matter what. It's wrestling. Being a snob about it is like bragging about going to the "nice Dollar General".
 
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Lexie's Dad said:
It's both.

As a fan, I try to like things. I don't care for a lot of what WWW does, but...

I still appreciate the wrestlers I like - Danielson, Cesaro, KO, Sammy, Rollins... Huge list.

I don't see how NXT can get a "worst" vote.

Some fans hate all WWE. No matter what. It's wrestling. Being a snob about it is like bragging about going to the "nice Dollar General".
Click to expand...
Agree for the most part. But let's not act like there's not a vocal contingent of fans (some even here) who hate all AEW, no matter what. To steal your simile, it's like bragging about eating at the "good Waffle House." It's a bit irritating.

Seriously, I want nothing more than WWE making me want to watch. I just find AEW much more compelling at the moment.
 
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CrittendenWildcat said:
Agree for the most part. But let's not act like there's not a vocal contingent of fans (some even here) who hate all AEW, no matter what. To steal your simile, it's like bragging about eating at the "good Waffle House." It's a bit irritating.

Seriously, I want nothing more than WWE making me want to watch. I just find AEW much more compelling at the moment.
Click to expand...
That's fair.

I try to acknowledge what I like about all of them. But, here's my gripe...

47-year old Edge - WWE and old guys, ugh...

Big Show / Jericho - They still got something in the tank, good for them...

If WWE had a guy on a zip line - OMG are they trying to have another Owen accident?

AEW zips Darby - OMG it's great.

Combine that with the virtue signaling ...

WWE keeps someone who was #metoo'd.... AWFUL

Also - Marty Scurl is awesome!!!

My point?

Criticize all equally.
 
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I think WWE is no doubt in one of their funks. The 93-early 96 was terrible with all of the cartoony characters. I also didn’t care much for 2008-2013 era of WWE. This era is starting to get better but is still showing a lot of signs of backstage apathy.

AEW just isn’t my cup of tea. I don’t think that they’ve really done many good things at all. I’ve tried to watch it because like I say, WWE has been down but I still think it’s infinitely better than AEW. I just don’t see what’s so great about the elite guys.
 
Lexie's Dad said:
That's fair.

I try to acknowledge what I like about all of them. But, here's my gripe...

47-year old Edge - WWE and old guys, ugh...

Big Show / Jericho - They still got something in the tank, good for them...

If WWE had a guy on a zip line - OMG are they trying to have another Owen accident?

AEW zips Darby - OMG it's great.

Combine that with the virtue signaling ...

WWE keeps someone who was #metoo'd.... AWFUL

Also - Marty Scurl is awesome!!!

My point?

Criticize all equally.
Click to expand...
You can’t really judge the two equally IMO. AEW doesn’t have a long history that makes fans not trust them. Wwe has been crap for a decade or more, repeatedly doing things that their fans hate or disappoints them. AEW has done far more good than bad in their short history and that’s why they get the benefit of the doubt and graded on a different scale with most fans. Like with the zip line, AEW and Tony had nothing to do with Owen. That’s why their fans didn’t crush it like they would if wwe did it. Although I did see some people say they were very nervous with it. But I’m sure that zip line probably didn’t even make the top 5 most dangerous things Darby did the last few weeks.

Personally I want Marty and Tessa in AEW more than anyone else but there’s a lot of AEW fans I’ve seen that don’t. Many of which were big Marty fans at one time. Just sucks that he probably won’t get to go there due to cancel culture. But SRS said yesterday that NJPW might be getting Scurll.
 
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Could be a big get...


AEW president Tony Khan appeared on Thursday's edition of Wrestling Observer Radio and was asked about his interest in one of WWE's recently-released stars, Zelina Vega (real name Thea Trinidad). Vega worked as both a manager and wrestler during her WWE run and shined in her role on Monday Night Rawlast year, but was swiftly released by the company in November. She had spent months speaking out against WWE's third-party policy regarding wrestlers on Twitch and Cameo and had recently launched a cosplay-focused OnlyFans prior to her departure.


Khan claimed he hadn't spoken to her and was uncertain if her 90-day "No Compete" clause had expired (it did back on Feb. 13), but seemed incredibly interested in her.

"Isn't she on a 90-day non-compete? I think she was on a non-compete last time I checked, so I've been waiting for that," Khan said (h/t Heel By Nature). "I don't talk to people when they have a non-compete. If it expired, it must have just expired. I don't know the exact details on that, but I've been waiting on the non-compete to expire to even think about it, then we got in the Women's Eliminator, so I have to check the math and see if she's expired, but I'm not sure. We've been pretty busy with this tournament, when we get through this tournament and through this pay-per-view...I'd be interested to see where she's at"
 
RMP82 said:
I think WWE is no doubt in one of their funks. The 93-early 96 was terrible with all of the cartoony characters. I also didn’t care much for 2008-2013 era of WWE. This era is starting to get better but is still showing a lot of signs of backstage apathy.

AEW just isn’t my cup of tea. I don’t think that they’ve really done many good things at all. I’ve tried to watch it because like I say, WWE has been down but I still think it’s infinitely better than AEW. I just don’t see what’s so great about the elite guys.
Click to expand...

Right I think that’s around the time I quit watching around 2008 - rock/Austin were gone and they starting giving the big belts to Sheamus/ADR/JBL
 
I think a lot of you guys are confused on why the results with the awards ended up the way they did. WWE= casuals and children. AEW= hardcore and marks. Who do you think is going to Wrestling Observer and voting?
 
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