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Can someone give a QB roundup on Spring Game?

Pretty good thread.

If we are looking to maximize the offense, I think it would be a mistake to utilize a quarterback with poor pass completion ability. That would give you three running backs in the backfield, assuming Snell, Wilson, and the new improved Rose. The situation at how our tackles are going to perform negates ability for rushing to the edge. UK would have three rushers continually going to the middle....and that wouldn't take a defensive genius much time to plug that middle rush.
JMO, for the offense to be effective AT THIS TIME the team needs a quarterback to be able to hit a big percentage of at least the slants and mid range hits. That doesn't require a cannon, but it does require someone that can make a quick read and hit. That would eventually open up the run AND the longer pass.
Wilson is going to have to get a lot more accurate to utilize eventually his running ability.

Seems like today Hoak is the best bet. Five months from now that could change.
 
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Pretty good thread.

If we are looking to maximize the offense, I think it would be a mistake to utilize a quarterback with poor pass completion ability. That would give you three running backs in the backfield, assuming Snell, Wilson, and the new improved Rose. The situation at how our tackles are going to perform negates ability for rushing to the edge. UK would have three rushers continually going to the middle....and that wouldn't take a defensive genius much time to plug that middle rush.
JMO, for the offense to be effective AT THIS TIME the team needs a quarterback to be able to hit a big percentage of at least the slants and mid range hits. That doesn't require a cannon, but it does require someone that can make a quick read and hit. That would eventually open up the run AND the longer pass.
Wilson is going to have to get a lot more accurate to utilize eventually his running ability.

Seems like today Hoak is the best bet. Five months from now that could change.


Terrible error in this post------you should be ashamed of yourself.

Only four months until season preparations are already going strong, not five. Don't make it worse than it is.

Otherwise not a bad post.
 
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....but I think Gran likes to pound the rock, control the ball and wear teams out.

Not sure that is the case. In his only previous stint as an OC (Cincy, 2013-2015) the Bearcats were ranked #23, #29 and #6 in Total Offense but ran the ball only 50%, 47% and 46% of the time. Cincy ran a peppier offense as well. They ran 78, 74 & 83 Plays/G (2013-2015) and UK ran 71 and 65 Plays/G (2016, 2017).

IOW, basically 2 different Grans at Cincy and UK. The one at Cincy threw the ball a lot. I'm not sure how much was due to coaching situation (i.e., OC under Tuberville vs. OC under Stoops) or available QB talent.

Peace
 
Not sure that is the case. In his only previous stint as an OC (Cincy, 2013-2015) the Bearcats were ranked #23, #29 and #6 in Total Offense but ran the ball only 50%, 47% and 46% of the time. Cincy ran a peppier offense as well. They ran 78, 74 & 83 Plays/G (2013-2015) and UK ran 71 and 65 Plays/G (2016, 2017).

IOW, basically 2 different Grans at Cincy and UK. The one at Cincy threw the ball a lot. I'm not sure how much was due to coaching situation (i.e., OC under Tuberville vs. OC under Stoops) or available QB talent.

Peace
I'm sure Stoops plays somewhat of a role in running more vs. passing...but I'd think the much bigger reasoning is playing defenses like Memphis, Army, Temple, UConn, Houston, ECU, etc...play a big role in tossing the ball around as well.
 
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I'm sure Stoops plays somewhat of a role in running more vs. passing...but I'd think the much bigger reasoning is playing defenses like Memphis, Army, Temple, UConn, Houston, ECU, etc...play a big role in tossing the ball around as well.
Have had three air raid, uptemo ocs in MS tenure...none ran that type offense while here.
 
If you had Boom/Benny and tackles that are shaky in edge pass rush protection...would you toss it around a bunch?
Let's be honest with ourselves. That's an excuse and not a reason. You could give Stoops Brett Farve and a pair of NFL Pro Bowl tackles and we would still be running the ball more than throwing. We heard the same reasoning on why we had Tim Couch running the option prior to Mumme being here. It's amazing how a coach with a mindset to open up the passing suddenly improves execution. Stoops just looks at the passing game the way a Defensive minded coach looks at it. He looks at it as a waste of time and it harms his defense. His awful run defense I might add. I'm sure Stoops would like to have a good passing game. I'm just not sure he's committed to the taskes needed to accomplish it.
 
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Let's be honest with ourselves. That's an excuse and not a reason. You could give Stoops Brett Farve and a pair of NFL Pro Bowl tackles and we would still be running the ball more than throwing. We heard the same reasoning on why we had Tim Couch running the option prior to Mumme being here. It's amazing how a coach with a mindset to open up the passing suddenly improves execution. Stoops just looks at the passing game the way a Defensive minded coach looks at it. He looks at it as a waste of time and it harms his defense. His awful run defense I might add. I'm sure Stoops would like to have a good passing game. I'm just not sure he's committed to the taskes needed to accomplish it.
So in 2014 with Neal Brown as OC
- UK pass 404 times and rushed it 445 times (52%run and 47% pass ratio). However, in those rush attempts Towles was sacked 36 times (and I could not count how many Towles rush attempts were also QB scrambles for positive yards on passing plays). So if you re-do the math (not able to count Towles QB scrambles on passing down...we had a 47% run vs. 52% pass ratio.

So in 2015 with Dimples-Dawson as OC:
- UK passed it 397 times and rushed it 419 times....but again 32 QB sacks that were actually pass attempts which again is a 47% run vs. 52% pass ratio.

As far as Neal Brown and Dimples-Dawson...were held back by Stoops from who they truly are:
1. Neal down at Troy in 2017 had a 46% run vs. 54% pass ratio...in 2016 49% run vs. 51% pass ratio
2. Dawson at So Miss in 2017 had a 52% run vs. 48% pass ration...in 2016 50% run vs. 50% pass ratio (and that is with Nick Mullens one of So Miss all time leading passers).

So is Stoops truly making pass friendly OCs into ground/pound guys? THere isn't a stat to back this up to be honest. Gran has been way more run friendly in two years at UK....but again he had Stephen Johnson's skill set to build around as well as the best RB ever at UK (Snell) and probably a 2nd RB that is easily a top 10 talent (Boom). I just hear this "Stoops puts plow on great OCs"....there just isn't data to back this up.
 
So in 2014 with Neal Brown as OC
- UK pass 404 times and rushed it 445 times (52%run and 47% pass ratio). However, in those rush attempts Towles was sacked 36 times (and I could not count how many Towles rush attempts were also QB scrambles for positive yards on passing plays). So if you re-do the math (not able to count Towles QB scrambles on passing down...we had a 47% run vs. 52% pass ratio.

So in 2015 with Dimples-Dawson as OC:
- UK passed it 397 times and rushed it 419 times....but again 32 QB sacks that were actually pass attempts which again is a 47% run vs. 52% pass ratio.

As far as Neal Brown and Dimples-Dawson...were held back by Stoops from who they truly are:
1. Neal down at Troy in 2017 had a 46% run vs. 54% pass ratio...in 2016 49% run vs. 51% pass ratio
2. Dawson at So Miss in 2017 had a 52% run vs. 48% pass ration...in 2016 50% run vs. 50% pass ratio (and that is with Nick Mullens one of So Miss all time leading passers).

So is Stoops truly making pass friendly OCs into ground/pound guys? THere isn't a stat to back this up to be honest. Gran has been way more run friendly in two years at UK....but again he had Stephen Johnson's skill set to build around as well as the best RB ever at UK (Snell) and probably a 2nd RB that is easily a top 10 talent (Boom). I just hear this "Stoops puts plow on great OCs"....there just isn't data to back this up.
Those stats don't really tell a full story. They are selectively pulled. Why not use Neal Brown stats at Texas Tech or Dawson's at West Virginia? Or even Eddie Gran's stats at Cincy. At any rate even the stats you pulled even with the exceptions you made don't indicate a wide open offense. And the first part of Stoops' tenure we had much more talent in the passing game than the running game and yet we still were by your numbers running the ball 52% of the time. The only really effective runner we had was Boom who was not a 30 carry per game guy and really should have been used as a back in a pass first system anyway.

At any rate this was not the point I was making. Stoops does have a mind set and that mind set in game and practice favors running the ball and defense. If you were to put a Mike Leach in charge of our offense I'd bet we would get much better right away and pass protection and even QB accuracy. Bottom line is there is no barrier on the roster for us to be good at in those areas.
 
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Those stats don't really tell a full story. They are selectively pulled. Why not use Neal Brown stats at Texas Tech or Dawson's at West Virginia? Or even Eddie Gran's stats at Cincy.

You don't use Dawson's at WVU because he didn't call plays.

Neal Brown is a good comparison because he moved on to being head coach/playcaller.
 
So in 2014 with Neal Brown as OC
- UK pass 404 times and rushed it 445 times (52%run and 47% pass ratio). However, in those rush attempts Towles was sacked 36 times (and I could not count how many Towles rush attempts were also QB scrambles for positive yards on passing plays). So if you re-do the math (not able to count Towles QB scrambles on passing down...we had a 47% run vs. 52% pass ratio.

So in 2015 with Dimples-Dawson as OC:
- UK passed it 397 times and rushed it 419 times....but again 32 QB sacks that were actually pass attempts which again is a 47% run vs. 52% pass ratio.

As far as Neal Brown and Dimples-Dawson...were held back by Stoops from who they truly are:
1. Neal down at Troy in 2017 had a 46% run vs. 54% pass ratio...in 2016 49% run vs. 51% pass ratio
2. Dawson at So Miss in 2017 had a 52% run vs. 48% pass ration...in 2016 50% run vs. 50% pass ratio (and that is with Nick Mullens one of So Miss all time leading passers).

So is Stoops truly making pass friendly OCs into ground/pound guys? THere isn't a stat to back this up to be honest. Gran has been way more run friendly in two years at UK....but again he had Stephen Johnson's skill set to build around as well as the best RB ever at UK (Snell) and probably a 2nd RB that is easily a top 10 talent (Boom). I just hear this "Stoops puts plow on great OCs"....there just isn't data to back this up.

Brown pretty close to even at Troy, and didn't he have a very good Senior QB last year, don't follow them that close.
 
So far I've only watched the first half. Based on that I would make Hoak the leader. Wilson has a big arm and looked quick afoot on some keeps but, right now, I think Hoak the better passer. I think he "sees things" a little better and is more accurate.

In the big picture, I think the Cats need the QB who gives them the best passing game, not a runner who augments Snell and Rose (who looked great on a couple of runs). I just cannot see where another 60/40 run/pass offense will do any better this year than it did last year (#103 in YPG). FWIW, the spring game was the reverse (60/40 pass/run) but I'm not the least bit sure that reflects the offense.

However, if you are going to throw it, you need guys who get open and catch the ball. To that point, as a group, I thought the Cat's receivers looked pretty average. And, at least so far, Gran has done nothing to "feature" TE Conrad as a receiver.

In 2008 there were 35 teams that averaged 400 or more YPG. Last year there were 64 teams that did so. I think Gran will likely have his work cut out for him again.

Peace
One of the best posts I have read. Very accurate and astute.
 
Those stats don't really tell a full story. They are selectively pulled. Why not use Neal Brown stats at Texas Tech or Dawson's at West Virginia? Or even Eddie Gran's stats at Cincy. At any rate even the stats you pulled even with the exceptions you made don't indicate a wide open offense. And the first part of Stoops' tenure we had much more talent in the passing game than the running game and yet we still were by your numbers running the ball 52% of the time. The only really effective runner we had was Boom who was not a 30 carry per game guy and really should have been used as a back in a pass first system anyway.

At any rate this was not the point I was making. Stoops does have a mind set and that mind set in game and practice favors running the ball and defense. If you were to put a Mike Leach in charge of our offense I'd bet we would get much better right away and pass protection and even QB accuracy. Bottom line is there is no barrier on the roster for us to be good at in those areas.


Does UK play in the Big 12 or whatever conference the City College with the HIGHEST COA in the nation plays in? The one just up the road, that along with the other City College just to the west in state and the nearest SEC rival all surround UK with top ten COAs while we are behind most of our rivals?
 
Those stats don't really tell a full story. They are selectively pulled. Why not use Neal Brown stats at Texas Tech or Dawson's at West Virginia? Or even Eddie Gran's stats at Cincy. At any rate even the stats you pulled even with the exceptions you made don't indicate a wide open offense. And the first part of Stoops' tenure we had much more talent in the passing game than the running game and yet we still were by your numbers running the ball 52% of the time. The only really effective runner we had was Boom who was not a 30 carry per game guy and really should have been used as a back in a pass first system anyway.

At any rate this was not the point I was making. Stoops does have a mind set and that mind set in game and practice favors running the ball and defense. If you were to put a Mike Leach in charge of our offense I'd bet we would get much better right away and pass protection and even QB accuracy. Bottom line is there is no barrier on the roster for us to be good at in those areas.
1. I'm not about to use Dawson at West Virginia because it's obvious to me that the HC calls the entire game offensively. That was never Dawson's offense at WVU.
2. Fair point on Eddie Gran at Cincy and Neal Brown at Texas Tech.
3. Leach is a better coach than Stoops...you won't get me to argue that point....but Stoops gets ton more blame than he deserves. Now when the offense has issues it's Stoops throttling down...but when it was doing fine two years ago it was masterful play calling from Gran. I just don't think anyone deserves more blame when things go bad but when it goes good it's somebody else's input.

In the end, we have the best RB I've ever seen at UK in Benny, Boom was a top 5 RB IMO....I'm glad we pounded the rock as much as we did. My problems with the last year was a defense that crapped the bed with tons of Jrs when it mattered moreso than anything
 
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