Cal's philosophy on defense is not longer in vogue

[uk78]

Defense in college basketball is really only significant in terms of the interior post along with fundamentals such as rebounding. The way offense has developed along with shooters who can release the ball quickly make it virtually impossible to defend outside shooting. The idea that you need great athlete's in college basket is anachronistic. Cal's philosophy and focus on defense will never beat a great offense.

Here is where defense can make a difference.... quickness. If you can disrupt the other teams offensive comfort then defense can have some meaning. Pressing and forcing turnovers, either having a team play faster or slower offensively then they prefer, or forcing the opponent in taking off balanced forced shots (and primarilly an influence of interior defense or quick response to a spot) is really the main aspects for todays' defense.

The constant turn-over of Kentucky players eliminates any great pressure pressing defense due to lack of experience. We have seen with several years at Kentucky having guards who can't keep their man in front of them, lack of basic funadmentals, and again of course experience. Plus, during the process of the great athlete learning the game (hopefully) the team is not great. Our success has been having a great center (Davis, KAT) along with guards that can shoot the ball. This year's team and some of the past teams have been beaten by players you have never heard of, didn't have 5 or even 4 stars next to their name, etc. But, they could shoot the ball and demonstrate some basketball fundamentals. B.J. Boston may have been 5 stars but he can't hold a dribble, takes off balanced heaves at the basket, is not a great passer, and is not better at shooting the ball then again some of these unknown players. But, he is a good athelete!

I don't know if we will see a change but recruiting really needs to pay better attention to those players showing basic fundamentals and shooting prowess. Please don't focus on points per game as scoring 30 points a game with dunks and layups in High School does not translate to college. Who has a really reliable outside shot? Who shows some offensive moves and quickness? Who has basic fundamentals to their game?

Give me skilled offensive players and I will beat any defense because you can't guard the split second pick and pop..

 

[megablue]

There is merit in a lot of what you say, but which is easier to consistently show up game-after-game ... offense or defense ?? With a good defense, you are far more likely to win on nights when your offense is not there. Defense is effort and commitment. Offense is a skill, of course, but it is always subject to the law of averages. This is the biggest reason why it’s so difficult win it all, even with a great team.

Not to mention the ravages of a poor shooting night at the FT-line.

 

[jace2012]

In football the Ravens won it with Trent Dilfer for crying out loud. They won it with defense and in basketball just get a guard that doesn’t turn the ball over and have a great defense, that should get the job done. Anthony Epps wasn’t highly ranked and he was a bad ass.

 

[kennyskywalker34]

In football the Ravens won it with Trent Dilfer for crying out loud. They won it with defense and in basketball just get a guard that doesn’t turn the ball over and have a great defense, that should get the job done. Anthony Epps wasn’t highly ranked and he was a bad ass.

Epps was a glue man. My favorite UK guard ever.

 

[LukaszObrzut87]

Farrr Cal

 

[Mike-D]

There is merit in a lot of what you say, but which is easier to consistently show up game-after-game ... offense or defense ?? With a good defense, you are far more likely to win on nights when your offense is not there. Defense is effort and commitment. Offense is a skill, of course, but it is always subject to the law of averages. This is the biggest reason why it’s so difficult win it all, even with a great team.

Not to mention the ravages of a poor shooting night at the FT-line.

The team that's going to win the national title is scoring over 90ppg. Defense won't win you championships. This line of thinking is why we score 67ppg. Asinine.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Defense in college basketball is really only significant in terms of the interior post along with fundamentals such as rebounding. The way offense has developed along with shooters who can release the ball quickly make it virtually impossible to defend outside shooting. The idea that you need great athlete's in college basket is anachronistic. Cal's philosophy and focus on defense will never beat a great offense.

Here is where defense can make a difference.... quickness. If you can disrupt the other teams offensive comfort then defense can have some meaning. Pressing and forcing turnovers, either having a team play faster or slower offensively then they prefer, or forcing the opponent in taking off balanced forced shots (and primarilly an influence of interior defense or quick response to a spot) is really the main aspects for todays' defense.

The constant turn-over of Kentucky players eliminates any great pressure pressing defense due to lack of experience. We have seen with several years at Kentucky having guards who can't keep their man in front of them, lack of basic funadmentals, and again of course experience. Plus, during the process of the great athlete learning the game (hopefully) the team is not great. Our success has been having a great center (Davis, KAT) along with guards that can shoot the ball. This year's team and some of the past teams have been beaten by players you have never heard of, didn't have 5 or even 4 stars next to their name, etc. But, they could shoot the ball and demonstrate some basketball fundamentals. B.J. Boston may have been 5 stars but he can't hold a dribble, takes off balanced heaves at the basket, is not a great passer, and is not better at shooting the ball then again some of these unknown players. But, he is a good athelete!

I don't know if we will see a change but recruiting really needs to pay better attention to those players showing basic fundamentals and shooting prowess. Please don't focus on points per game as scoring 30 points a game with dunks and layups in High School does not translate to college. Who has a really reliable outside shot? Who shows some offensive moves and quickness? Who has basic fundamentals to their game?

Give me skilled offensive players and I will beat any defense because you can't guard the split second pick and pop..

I know you are not talking specifically about yesterday but UK played solid D especially in the 2nd half and Florida just made some remarkable shots.

Maybe this is why Kenpom has UK rated 346 out of 357 teams in the luck department.

Teams typically play out of their minds when they see Kentucky across these kids jerseys.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

I know you are not talking specifically about yesterday but UK played solid D especially in the 2nd half and Florida just made some remarkable shots.

Maybe this is why Kenpom has UK rated 346 out of 357 teams in the luck department.

Teams typically play out of their minds when they see Kentucky across these kids jerseys.

The old “everybody’s Super Bowl“. Maybe if we weren’t so young or only had some players that could poop ice cream.

 

[deep3]

In football the Ravens won it with Trent Dilfer for crying out loud. They won it with defense and in basketball just get a guard that doesn’t turn the ball over and have a great defense, that should get the job done. Anthony Epps wasn’t highly ranked and he was a bad ass.

When was that Trent Dilfer Ravens win, thought so. Dude the game evolves your boy has not

 

[Untouchables22]

The team that's going to win the national title is scoring over 90ppg. Defense won't win you championships. This line of thinking is why we score 67ppg. Asinine.

Gonzaga is #1 in Offense and #10 in Defense....Michigan is #5 in offense and #4 in defense....Baylor is #4 in offense and #17 in defense. It still takes BOTH to win it all.

 

[deep3]

Gonzaga is #1 in Offense and #10 in Defense....Michigan is #5 in offense and #4 in defense....Baylor is #4 in offense and #17 in defense. It still takes BOTH to win it all.

Your correct you absolutely have to defend and rebound BUT you also have to have people that can shoot it and beat people off the dribble. The current state of CB is its a damn must you have people that can shoot it and beat your man off the dribble. Simple

 

[sam_o]

It's not an either or. It takes both.

 

[CatPhight]

No zone defense in the NBA translates to no zone defense played here. Not that we should play zone all the time, but the lack of even the most basic preparedness against a 1-3-1 cost the 2009 team a Final Four and title shot, and it's clearly still a problem.

 

[megablue]

This is interesting information and tends to support the offensive-minded thesis. To my way of thinking, you clearly need to play both offense and defense at a high level to win it all.

Nine years of college basketball data show offense matters more in March

After comparing nine years of offensive and defensive performance to NCAA tournament success to see which matters more, the winner was clear: offense.

www.ncaa.com

 

[CNJ1966]

This is not pertaining to the OP’s original point, but it does have to do with Cal’s “defensive philosophy” of switching every screen. Smart coaches/teams just keep ball screening til they get the matchup they want. It cost us the Wisconsin game (at least a major factor, among other things). I don’t think he will ever win another championship with this strategy.

I went back and watched some of the 2012 championship game to see if Cal has always done this. From what I saw, we did not. Maybe someone else can correct me...but if not, that begs the question: When did Cal adopt this philosophy?

 

[bigbluedon]

No zone defense in the NBA translates to no zone defense played here. Not that we should play zone all the time, but the lack of even the most basic preparedness against a 1-3-1 cost the 2009 team a Final Four and title shot, and it's clearly still a problem.

Still makes me sick to this day.

 

[yes_takeaside]

I know you are not talking specifically about yesterday but UK played solid D especially in the 2nd half and Florida just made some remarkable shots.

Maybe this is why Kenpom has UK rated 346 out of 357 teams in the luck department.

Teams typically play out of their minds when they see Kentucky across these kids jerseys.

Almost last in “luck” suggests something else is at play

 

[catrecruit]

No zone defense in the NBA translates to no zone defense played here. Not that we should play zone all the time, but the lack of even the most basic preparedness against a 1-3-1 cost the 2009 team a Final Four and title shot, and it's clearly still a problem.

True.....but 4-32 from three will do you in every time

 

[seccats04]

True.....but 4-32 from three will do you in every time

Then Cal should've made adjustments and said let's stop shooting threes since tonight is not our night. He had John Wall, one of the fastest guards in the world but we went away from driving the ball because he didn't know how to combat a zone. 12 years later he still doesn't.

 

[uk78]

True.....but 4-32 from three will do you in every time

Yes, this is where it seems that Cal doesn't make those in-game adjustments. I said the same thing when it was clear that PJ was missing free throws. Go away from continuing to throw it in to him against Kansas State. K State was an awful team and there were so many other options despite it being clear that this one area was an advantage. Well not if you see the pattern is not working. Same with shooting a bunch of 3's against a zone where the top, left, and right of the key was often open against Florida. It isn't Monday morning quarterbacking to see what is on or off during a game.

Also, some responses to my original post miss the point. No one is ever going to say defense doesn't matter. Of course you have to have decent defense. However, that defense is more important on the interior or with experienced teams that know how to press to force turnovers or disrupt the rhythm of the opposing teams normal flow. But, in today's college game with teams that have excellent shooters no defense is going to simply stop them because all you have to do is pick and pop. Thus to combat it you have to have a strong inside game for offensive rebounds and a few guys that can shoot reliably. The idea that you need great athletes is no longer the case. Was or is Tyler Herro a great physical strong athlete? Hmmm, seems to be doing quite well in the NBA and where is the Dragon? One could shoot the ball and the other could dunk? Case closed.

 

[catzfanjim]

True.....but 4-32 from three will do you in every time

That's why you go inside to Boogie or Patterson but Cal was ok with shooting 3 pointers all night.

 

[RunninRichie]

That's why you go inside to Boogie or Patterson but Cal was ok with shooting 3 pointers all night.

this is hard. we’re young.

 

[cats#1again]

The team that's going to win the national title is scoring over 90ppg. Defense won't win you championships. This line of thinking is why we score 67ppg. Asinine.

It actually does. You can take a b- offense and A+ defense and make fools of the field

 

[BourbonBalz]

In football the Ravens won it with Trent Dilfer for crying out loud. They won it with defense and in basketball just get a guard that doesn’t turn the ball over and have a great defense, that should get the job done. Anthony Epps wasn’t highly ranked and he was a bad ass.

I agree 100% about Epps. But, he had a boatload of great players around him too. Those teams were offensive and defensive beasts.

 

[jwphelps]

Defense in college basketball is really only significant in terms of the interior post along with fundamentals such as rebounding. The way offense has developed along with shooters who can release the ball quickly make it virtually impossible to defend outside shooting. The idea that you need great athlete's in college basket is anachronistic. Cal's philosophy and focus on defense will never beat a great offense.

Here is where defense can make a difference.... quickness. If you can disrupt the other teams offensive comfort then defense can have some meaning. Pressing and forcing turnovers, either having a team play faster or slower offensively then they prefer, or forcing the opponent in taking off balanced forced shots (and primarilly an influence of interior defense or quick response to a spot) is really the main aspects for todays' defense.

The constant turn-over of Kentucky players eliminates any great pressure pressing defense due to lack of experience. We have seen with several years at Kentucky having guards who can't keep their man in front of them, lack of basic funadmentals, and again of course experience. Plus, during the process of the great athlete learning the game (hopefully) the team is not great. Our success has been having a great center (Davis, KAT) along with guards that can shoot the ball. This year's team and some of the past teams have been beaten by players you have never heard of, didn't have 5 or even 4 stars next to their name, etc. But, they could shoot the ball and demonstrate some basketball fundamentals. B.J. Boston may have been 5 stars but he can't hold a dribble, takes off balanced heaves at the basket, is not a great passer, and is not better at shooting the ball then again some of these unknown players. But, he is a good athelete!

I don't know if we will see a change but recruiting really needs to pay better attention to those players showing basic fundamentals and shooting prowess. Please don't focus on points per game as scoring 30 points a game with dunks and layups in High School does not translate to college. Who has a really reliable outside shot? Who shows some offensive moves and quickness? Who has basic fundamentals to their game?

Give me skilled offensive players and I will beat any defense because you can't guard the split second pick and pop..

Well first let me say defense is very important, it is the one constant in the game, all it takes is effort verses offense which you can have a bad night shooting, etc. That said I am not that pleased with Cal's defense never have been, unless the Cats have overwhelming superior athletes we tend to get beat off the dribble constantly, we don't get back and get burnt occasionally and this switching out front tends to end up in bad mismatches that the other team want and burn the Cats on. The fact that he hates zones is baffling, it is obvious that he really doesn't work on any kind of full court press. Cal is a one dimensional coach on offense and defense and the game has caught up to him.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

The old “everybody’s Super Bowl“. Maybe if we weren’t so young or only had some players that could poop ice cream.

Still a top 25 D despite the piss poor luck and these random dudes growing nightly beer muscles.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Well first let me say defense is very important, it is the one constant in the game, all it takes is effort verses offense which you can have a bad night shooting, etc. That said I am not that pleased with Cal's defense never have been, unless the Cats have overwhelming superior athletes we tend to get beat off the dribble constantly, we don't get back and get burnt occasionally and this switching out front tends to end up in bad mismatches that the other team want and burn the Cats on. The fact that he hates zones is baffling, it is obvious that he really doesn't work on any kind of full court press. Cal is a one dimensional coach on offense and defense and the game has caught up to him.

Our help Defense with Jackson and Sarr has been about as good as I have ever seen at Ky.

Our problem is not defense. Our problem has been consistent shooting.

 

[uk78]

Once again as I said defense is important and can make a difference in college on the interior. But, if you watch good outside shooting teams there is practically no defense that can stop it so you have to be able to match shooting and then have the superior inside. Offense will beat defense in college otherwise.

 

[Girthang]

Defense in college basketball is really only significant in terms of the interior post along with fundamentals such as rebounding. The way offense has developed along with shooters who can release the ball quickly make it virtually impossible to defend outside shooting. The idea that you need great athlete's in college basket is anachronistic. Cal's philosophy and focus on defense will never beat a great offense.

Here is where defense can make a difference.... quickness. If you can disrupt the other teams offensive comfort then defense can have some meaning. Pressing and forcing turnovers, either having a team play faster or slower offensively then they prefer, or forcing the opponent in taking off balanced forced shots (and primarilly an influence of interior defense or quick response to a spot) is really the main aspects for todays' defense.

The constant turn-over of Kentucky players eliminates any great pressure pressing defense due to lack of experience. We have seen with several years at Kentucky having guards who can't keep their man in front of them, lack of basic funadmentals, and again of course experience. Plus, during the process of the great athlete learning the game (hopefully) the team is not great. Our success has been having a great center (Davis, KAT) along with guards that can shoot the ball. This year's team and some of the past teams have been beaten by players you have never heard of, didn't have 5 or even 4 stars next to their name, etc. But, they could shoot the ball and demonstrate some basketball fundamentals. B.J. Boston may have been 5 stars but he can't hold a dribble, takes off balanced heaves at the basket, is not a great passer, and is not better at shooting the ball then again some of these unknown players. But, he is a good athelete!

I don't know if we will see a change but recruiting really needs to pay better attention to those players showing basic fundamentals and shooting prowess. Please don't focus on points per game as scoring 30 points a game with dunks and layups in High School does not translate to college. Who has a really reliable outside shot? Who shows some offensive moves and quickness? Who has basic fundamentals to their game?

Give me skilled offensive players and I will beat any defense because you can't guard the split second pick and pop..

Sht... didn't even realize he had a "philosophy." Kinda gives him too much credit imo.

Anyone that doesn't even teach zone nor how to beat an effective zone is relying on talent rather than philosophies

 

[BourbonBalz]

Our help Defense with Jackson and Sarr has been about as good as I have ever seen at Ky.

Our problem is not defense. Our problem has been consistent shooting.

Both. I know all about our defensive efficiency rating, but it’s fool’s gold. We get beat off the dribble all the time. Florida ate us alive in the paint on Saturday.

Edit: if you think our current help defense is as good as you’ve seen at Kentucky, you must’ve been in a coma during the AD, WCS/KAT, and Noel years. Even Nick Richards. Throw Sam Bowie and some of the Pitino defenses in there as well.

 

[Girthang]

With a good defense, you are far more likely to win on nights when your offense is not there. Defense is effort and commitment. ....

Not to mention the ravages of a poor shooting night at the FT-line.

Agreed with that except defense isn't just effort and commitment. It's practice and learning, even anticipating the movement your defense will cause and negating that as well.

That all comes down to coaching and time. Repetition and playing against great offenses every day will cement it.

 

[kybassfan]

You can not win 6 games in the tournament without defense. Depending on circus shots night in and night out will fail you. Defense first, always. This is not the NBA.

 

[SmedMoley]

You can not win 6 games in the tournament without defense. Depending on circus shots night in and night out will fail you. Defense first, always. This is not the NBA.

I call that Playstation mentality. Playstation!!!!!!!!

 

[BourbonBalz]

You can not win 6 games in the tournament without defense. Depending on circus shots night in and night out will fail you. Defense first, always. This is not the NBA.

It is becoming the NBA to an extent. It’s now a perimeter based game.

 

[jwphelps]

Our help Defense with Jackson and Sarr has been about as good as I have ever seen at Ky.

Our problem is not defense. Our problem has been consistent shooting.

Jackson spends half his time on the bench in foul trouble because he is helping too much. It is not that hard to get down and try and keep you man in front of you, even Hagans had a hard time with this. And what can I say about shooting, Cal doesn't value outside shooting.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Jackson spends half his time on the bench in foul trouble because he is helping too much. It is not that hard to get down and try and keep you man in front of you, even Hagans had a hard time with this. And what can I say about shooting, Cal doesn't value outside shooting.

Agreed, but one of the biggest problems is Cal wants to switch everything on defense so we constantly end up in bad mismatches which causes fouls.

 

[kybassfan]

It is becoming the NBA to an extent. It’s now a perimeter based game.

Not really. Particularly in the SEC, it’s a slugfest in the paint.

 

[kybassfan]

I call that Playstation mentality. Playstation!!!!!!!!

you still can’t win 6 games in the tournament without a stifling defense.

 

[SmedMoley]

you still can’t win 6 games in the tournament without a stifling defense.

Yep! Playstation scoring doesn't work.

 

[kybassfan]

Yep! Playstation scoring doesn't work.

No idea. Never owned one. You could ask one of the pimple poppers on here that learned there basketball there. Had to learn mine on the court.