Cal press conference: "I'm overrated as a recruiter"

[ib4ky]

VERY LONG​

Please, Don't Read If Your Personal Opinion Means More To You Than Some Pertinent Facts​

(Per Rivals Rankings 2002-2019)
UK Recruiting 2002-2008 (Pre-Calipari) Average 3.36-Star of 31-Recruits

FOUR: 5-Star (12.9%)
EIGHT: 4-Star
SIXTEEN: 3-Star (51.6%)
ZERO: 1-Star
ONE: 0-Star​

UK Recruiting 2009-2019 so far (Calipari) Average 4.66-Star of 64-Recruits

FORTY-FOUR: 5-Star (68.8%)
EIGHTEEN: 4-Star
TWO: 3-Star (BOTH Kentucky kids)​

UK Basketball Recruiting (per Rivals) 2003-2008

Averaged 14th (Duke averaged 18th)​

UK Basketball Recruiting (per Rivals) 2009-2013

Averaged 1st (Duke averaged 18th)​

UK Basketball Recruiting (per Rivals) 2014-2019 (so far)

Averaged 2nd (Duke averaged 5th)
​

1. ONLY EIGHT different colleges have won the Mens NCAA Basketball Championship since 2004 and
2. ONLY TWO primarily used the "one-and-done" model to accomplish it (UK 2012/ Duke 2015) and
3. ONLY FIVE of the champs since 2004 had at least ONE Top-10 Freshman on roster and
4. TWO colleges (UNCHEATS/ UCON) have won THREE titles each since 2004 with UNC Freshmen recruit average class (RIVALS) ranking 12.6 and UCON Freshmen recruit average class (RIVALS) ranking 22.0

A few personal opinions and comments:

• I read RR and HoB EVERYDAY, but it can be very tedious
• MANY, MANY things have to fall right for any college to be lucky enough to win a NCAA Championship, Top-5 players and/ or top rated recruiting classes are not the panacea to win championships
• Attracting top level talent and keeping a quantity of that talent from year to year just makes a coaches job easier
• I LOVE UK basketball (#1 hobby/ #1 entertainment)
• A lot of UK fans are at times unrealistic, me included
• A lot of UK fans are spoiled, me included
• I HATE listening to Cal screaming on the sidelines
• Cal is a (Marketing degree) salesman, people take him too way serious at times
• I BELIEVE Cal has very little control over who stays or goes after one year at UK, EVERY year there are players throughout college basketball who I think should stay another year but it's not my decision
• I GET frustrated watching UK and Cal at times but I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be a "Non-Fair-Weather" fan unless UK makes another BCG type hire (j/k)...............
• I'm DISAPPOINTED whenever UK loses any player they're recruiting
• I'm DISAPPOINTED if UK basketball doesn't play a perfect game, win or lose
• I DO think Cal has become complacent in-games and in some recruiting scenarios
• I HOPE Cal does change up one of the Assistants next year to a (ex-NBA player) "name" assistant
• Sometimes, I don't know how to take some of the END-OF-TIMES ARMAGEDDON UK fans who post on this message board (whether jokingly/ utterly mis-informed/ uneducated/ or just trolling)
• ANYONE who is preaching about UK's recruiting being the "worst it's ever been" pre or post Cal and thinks things can be so much better do not remember the "shit show inside of a dumpster fire" going on during the late Tubby/ BCG regimes
• I'll be watching the UK-Winthrop stream at 1pm Wednesday

BBN, BE SAFE AND HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!!!!​

 

[Wildcat_JC]

NCAA looks away,nothing to see here...(Any place beside KENTUCKY)

 

[CatfanMike47]

Te

I couldn’t have said this better myself. All great points and to the tee. Unfortunately, I am classified as a “millennial”. I hate the lot of them lol. Entitled, spoiled, weak minded individuals with no work ethic. Follow the path of least resistance is this generations thought process.

ll me about it! Try being a manager trying to get employees to work! They all want a pay check but, don’t want to work for it! I was raised no matter if you make 5.00 an hour or 20 an hour, you work just as hard for the job you make 5 for as you would the 20!

 

[minjo]

Agree

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Think of it this way - Calipari is telegraphing to the fan base and to future recruits that he is doing things above board and will require student athletes to earn their playing time, will give them the absolute best exposure to future NBA staff and will develop them as he knows how in order for them to achieve their goals.

When you have the top schools luring players with money, expensive houses, fringe benefits that extend to the players families in the form of jobs and opportunities, you are already at a major disadvantage. They could not beat Calipari at his own game, so they had to enlist the shoe companies to help them overcome his sales pitch.

Where is the NCAA in the enforcement of current policy violations? They have all been spelled out clearly in the FBI investigation. Their silence speaks volumes about the inequity of the system and the inherent bias against certain coaches and schools. This, to me, is the real controversy that no one is talking about. I don't blame Calipari for the recruiting losses. I blame the NCAA.

The NCAA is not going to change. Our recruiting rivals are not going to change.

Cal is picking the hill that he's willing to die on, which is noble. The rest of the world still hails Self, K and Williams as patron saints of honesty and integrity. Cal is still remembered for Memphis and UMass banners coming down.

That's the hideous irony in all of this. The only ones who have honed in on Cal's integrity are the members of BBN, a realm of fans who are now forced to adopt the "well, at least we're above all that cheating" routine that we used to mock our rivals for employing.

 

[Big Cat fan]

Are Maxey and Whitney that bad, cmon. This is silly.

We are replacing 85% of our team most likely. They better be Wall and MKG in order to have a great season

Not hard to understand.

 

[wildcatwelder]

Think of it this way - Calipari is telegraphing to the fan base and to future recruits that he is doing things above board and will require student athletes to earn their playing time, will give them the absolute best exposure to future NBA staff and will develop them as he knows how in order for them to achieve their goals.

When you have the top schools luring players with money, expensive houses, fringe benefits that extend to the players families in the form of jobs and opportunities, you are already at a major disadvantage. They could not beat Calipari at his own game, so they had to enlist the shoe companies to help them overcome his sales pitch.

Where is the NCAA in the enforcement of current policy violations? They have all been spelled out clearly in the FBI investigation. Their silence speaks volumes about the inequity of the system and the inherent bias against certain coaches and schools. This, to me, is the real controversy that no one is talking about. I don't blame Calipari for the recruiting losses. I blame the NCAA.

Post of the Day, congrats.

 

[kev69]

Cal is wrong. He’s not overrated as a recruiter.
He’s a really good/great recruiter.

He’s also great at managing a program. He’s also a great motivator. This man has a lot of great qualities,


He’s overrated as a coach.

As far as x and o’s, adjustments, playing to his players strengths, I think he’s below average.

 

[BIG BLUE GURU]

After all the “gold standard, move the needle, best of the best” talk, this looks weak. If he’s abandoning that approach, fine - but you have to outright say that and change the culture at the program.

I do not like this look at all. At all.

Me either. I liked the Cal who said Kentucky will eat first and backed it up. Something has changed with him.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I am ashamed for some of our fans, that think our coach or any other coach has to win any and all games.
I think not getting unwiseman has caused all this commotion.
Personally I'm glad he did not pick us. I am sure had he picked us, there would have been the question
Did I do this right?
He really had no choice, If it were not for his relationship with Penny, I'm sure he would have picked us.
The step he took does not translate to Cal's weakness.
Enough of this degrading our coach.

It's not just Wiseman. If only it were that simple.

Over the last three cycles, there have been about five recruits who mattered to BBN more than any others, guys who we thought we had a shot at and followed the recruitments of religiously:

They were/are:

Zion - Duke
Bamba- Texas
Barrett - Duke
Wiseman - Memphis
Bagley - Duke

To a lesser extent, I'd throw Trae Young in there as he exemplifies a huge miss by the staff with what he did at OU.

I wouldn't put Knox or Reddish in this category, as our fans checked out on both of those recruitments and didn't really see UK as viable for either (Knox, after all, was a shocker).


We went 0/5 with those five. That stuff kills you.


So, while I'm for defending Calipari, we likewise have to acknowledge that something has changed dramatically for the worse. The nobility featured within our program is fine in that it won't bring repercussions in the form of penalties, but we also have to understand that the recruiting world is evolving to such an extent that UK's former OAD paradigm is largely obsolete now.

UK's new OAD role is that of a haven for second tier kids with grandiose, inflated views of their own NBA abilities, all ready to pack up and clear out of town as the first hint of G-league daylight.

It's a paradigm shift that will birth some good teams, but few great teams.

 

[Sparkaces1]

Cal is wrong. He’s not overrated as a recruiter.
He’s a really good/great recruiter.

He’s overrated as a coach.

As far as x and o’s, adjustments, playing to his players strengths, I think he’s below average.

Yeah, I mean let's be real, Cal should of had minimum three titles. I know it's hard to win 6 games in a row and a lot happens in the tourny but that is reality.

 

[KentuckySir2]

He’s defeated. **** all this noise hire Jalen Rose as his assistant and lead recruiter.

 

[wildcatwelder]

Cal is wrong. He’s not overrated as a recruiter.
He’s a really good/great recruiter.

He’s overrated as a coach.

As far as x and o’s, adjustments, playing to his players strengths, I think he’s below average.

Ageed, and to add to that, I used to think he was a very good bench coach. I remember when he coached at UMASS and Memphis, and recall thinking the guy knew his X's and O's, and understood what he had to get from each player on his roster in order to be successful.

Has he become more laid back? IDK, but it must be considered, IMO. I am still behind him 100%, but I do feel he could be a better coach. Nothing can be done in recruiting when a JW scenario arises; he was going with Penny from the moment PH was named their coach.

 

[Sparkaces1]

Ageed, and to add to that, I used to think he was a very good bench coach. I remember when he coached at UMASS and Memphis, and recall thinking the guy knew his X's and O's, and understood what he had to get from each player on his roster in order to be successful.

Has he become more laid back? IDK, but it must be considered, IMO. I am still behind him 100%, but I do feel he could be a better coach. Nothing can be done in recruiting when a JW scenario arises; he was going with Penny from the moment PH was named their coach.

I think Cal/Memphis destroyed Tubby/UK one year in Maui and I remember thinking I wish we had him as the coach. His teams were just to tough and athletic back then.

 

[Big Cat fan]

He needs a post player return and needs another good one. How is this going to happen?

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

I think Cal/Memphis destroyed Tubby/UK one year in Maui and I remember thinking I wish we had him as the coach. His teams were just to tough and athletic back then.

Which doesn't have much to do with coaching, that's more recruiting.

I think Kev69 is spot on, Cal isn't a great coach. He's not analytical, he doesn't spend hours watching film, he doesn't have schemes, he doesn't get into the details, he's not hands on. On game day, all that screaming isn't coaching.

Imo he needs to hire assistants who will do all those things. He has to be willing to a) Identify his weaknesses; b) Hire assistants who are strong there; c) Focus on what he's good at, which is recruiting.

Just my opinion.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

I'm about ready to call him overrated as well. His pitch worked five years ago. Not so much now.

Nobody believes you are a fan

 

[gwjenning]

Surely Cal doesn't pitch the same thing to every recruit?
It is easier for some like AD, Towns, Cousins, Wall that are naturally gifted.

I don't think you can throw the same pitch out there to PJ Washington, Gabriel, Tyler Ulis, Quade Green.

If Cal does use the same pitch on how hard it is going to be with a Zion Williamson, Wiseman, Bagley then of course it's going to decrease your chances of landing them. Certain recruits are just better than others and the NBA is licking their chops to get them.

Cal says he tells every recruit the same thing and that just can't work. Some are a lot better than others.

Maybe Antigua was better at selling the elite recruits!

 

[FrankUnderwood]

After all the “gold standard, move the needle, best of the best” talk, this looks weak. If he’s abandoning that approach, fine - but you have to outright say that and change the culture at the program.

I do not like this look at all. At all.

I’m sure Cal cares man. If stubborn penny does not like it *at all* then Cal should be informed

 

[KINGBEAST]

Well that doesn't sound like the guy who straight walked up to Mick Cronin when we swooped in and got Teague over Cincy and basically said, "suck it. We're Kentucky and you're not." Not an exact quote, but it is a well documented exchange when Cronin was butthurt over Teague.

"Kentucky eats first".

What happened to that shit?

Yep. But I’m afraid the dynamics outside of normal recruiting have changed and it has radically effected his power.

I think the gray area of college basketball is a strange place.

KB

 

[nookam]

Clearly referencing Wiseman's decision.

View embedded media

8 million a year and one of the highest paid staff as well. Why didn’t he say overpaid or perhaps suggest they reduce salary 50%.

 

[CatfanMike47]

It's not just Wiseman. If only it were that simple.

Over the last three cycles, there have been about five recruits who mattered to BBN more than any others, guys who we thought we had a shot at and followed the recruitments of religiously:

They were/are:

Zion - Duke
Bamba- Texas
Barrett - Duke
Wiseman - Memphis
Bagley - Duke

To a lesser extent, I'd throw Trae Young in there as he exemplifies a huge miss by the staff with what he did at OU.

I wouldn't put Knox or Reddish in this category, as our fans checked out on both of those recruitments and didn't really see UK as viable for either (Knox, after all, was a shocker).


We went 0/5 with those five. That stuff kills you.


So, while I'm for defending Calipari, we likewise have to acknowledge that something has changed dramatically for the worse. The nobility featured within our program is fine in that it won't bring repercussions in the form of penalties, but we also have to understand that the recruiting world is evolving to such an extent that UK's former OAD paradigm is largely obsolete now.

UK's new OAD role is that of a haven for second tier kids with grandiose, inflated views of their own NBA abilities, all ready to pack up and clear out of town as the first hint of G-league daylight.

It's a paradigm shift that will birth some good teams, but few great teams.

We’re not paying the players that is why the top kids go elsewhere because schools like Duke, KU, Arizona, LSU, Miami, NC St, and Michigan St. Are willing to give them whatever and tell them whatever to get them on campus and when what they were promised doesn’t happen you get situations like with Duke and they get blasted! Oh I almost forgot UL gave many benefits! Cals hands are tied behind his back!

 

[UK-chulo]

Cal is wrong. He’s not overrated as a recruiter.
He’s a really good/great recruiter.

He’s also great at managing a program. He’s also a great motivator. This man has a lot of great qualities,


He’s overrated as a coach.

As far as x and o’s, adjustments, playing to his players strengths, I think he’s below average.

This is harsh. But I have to admit is 100% true. Cal with elite, athletic talent is a beautiful thing to watch. I feel for him. He's in a tough spot. Created a monster that is biting him now. Can't get the very top players so takes whoever will come that have a high ranking regardless of basketball skill or IQ, or whether they make a complete team when they get on the floor. That man must have a lot of sleepless nights.

 

[mapcatfan]

I admire your desire for honesty, but I might add: what good is a rule that even the creators of the rule don't enforce?

We're buying into a paradigm ethic that no one else follows. Not even the people who created the paradigm.

But I have seen nothing from the NCAA to suggest that everyone will be treated the same for violating said ethics. Anyone think the NCAA would let Cal get away with paying players if they had proof? How about a UK player securing a $70,000 line of credit at a jewelry store?

The real test will be to see what they do with the FBI info.

 

[K_TIME]

I'm cool with not being able to close the deal on the elite guys (honestly..we know Ayton, SImmons, Zion, etc.. got deals to go to those schools). I'd imagine the same thing is probably happening many other cases (Bamba, etc..).

But two things are easy for Cal to adjust (and so far he's full of mess with his lingo):
- Shake up the assistants. Duke basically only get assistants that played there...we have the entire rest of country to go get assistants. What we are getting from Justice and Barbee...nobody can honestly tell us what these guys bring to the program and UK assistant is a premium job.
- It is past time for all these guys coming to UK and the marginal guys leaving...and Cal does play into this crap. (Telling Tyler Ullis don't come here if you're a 4 year player, Wenyen leaving was a joke, Briscoe, etc...And this year Nick Richards and EJ Montgomery will leave and it's foolish). He need to help win games at UK and quite obssessing over this NBA mess. This 1 issue has been a major lack of focus by Cal and now it's biting him bigtime.

 

[Maxwell41]

Heres some advice to Cal, Tell the kids what they want to hear. Jesus christ every other coach does and then uses Cals "honest approach" to recruit negatively against him.

Cal " I can't promise you playing time you have to earn it"

Every other coach "We will give you 30 shots and 40 minutes a game" Then they get to campus and learn that was just a recruiting pitch to get them there.

The difference? The other coaches are getting top players and Cal is not. Would anyone here really be mad if Cal promised Zion/RJ/Wiseman/Carey whatever they wanted and we got them? No

That BS win at any cost is the way most of you so called fans want to watch the NBA

 

[Mike-D]

Man, we sure have come a long way from "I'm here because I can recruit the best of the best."

He’s still recruiting good. Just not “damn” good. And he’s not gonna stand up there and tell everyone he can recruit the best of the best the day we lost Wiseman. I’m sure he’s just as tore up about it as we are. And maybe this is his come to Jesus moment that it’s time to get shit right. We need a lot of changes made. Philosophy, individuals, everything.

 

[CrazyCat74]

Let's be honest..

-Theres not a high profile Head Coach that works as hard as Cal in regards to recruiting..

-When it comes down to it, we MAY only lose PJ and Travis off this team.

I think the recruiting has been fine.. Not sure about the PRACTICE Coaching though.. Some or all need to pick it up..

 

[CrazyCat74]

He’s still recruiting good. Just not “damn” good. And he’s not gonna stand up there and tell everyone he can recruit the best of the best the day we lost Wiseman. I’m sure he’s just as tore up about it as we are. And maybe this is his come to Jesus moment that it’s time to get shit right. We need a lot of changes made. Philosophy, individuals, everything.

Correct.. Always be needin to make adjustments...Never get comfy as a Coach

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

You know our last coach to take a huge stand for doing things the right way was Tubby and he paid for it.

The demands of winning at a blue blood.. you either give in and do what the rest of the country does or you get shoved out of the way.

 

[FishersBlue]

This is what the beginning of the end of Cal's era at UK feels like.

 

[rbs]

The old 'iffin game here.

There is ample cause to be both concerned and elated with what Cal has accomplished at UK ... and we could debate every facet of that (see preceding 5 pages).

For me, and I suspect a lot of people, all of this debate would likely not exist if Cal had won in 2015 when we were the best team. That year, it was "our" title to take, and we let it get away and of all people to win it ... was Duke.

Yes, there have been other opportunities to have won it all over the last several years of the Cal era that could be argued ... which would have been incredible had that occurred, but it's that one year, 2015, where we missed out, that leaves such a bitter taste.

Win that one additional title and the course of history and things in general would be a lot different.

But ... that didn't happen.

So here people are, with this unsettling feeling that the Cats have lost/or losing the throne .... and a rival who stole our approach may do what we should have done four years ago, and that makes everybody (including Cal) a bit more edgy than perhaps we should be.

 

[Calsthebomb]

Nobody believes you are a fan

I know my truth

 

[mapcatfan]

The old 'iffin game here.

There is ample cause to be both concerned and elated with what Cal has accomplished at UK ... and we could debate every facet of that (see preceding 5 pages).

For me, and I suspect a lot of people, all of this debate would likely not exist if Cal had won in 2015 when we were the best team. That year, it was "our" title to take, and we let it get away and of all people to win it ... was Duke.

Yes, there have been other opportunities to have won it all over the last several years of the Cal era that could be argued ... which would have been incredible had that occurred, but it's that one year, 2015, where we missed out, that leaves such a bitter taste.

Win that one additional title and the course of history and things in general would be a lot different.

But ... that didn't happen.

So here people are, with this unsettling feeling that the Cats have lost/or losing the throne .... and a rival who stole our approach may do what we should have done four years ago, and that makes everybody (including Cal) a bit more edgy than perhaps we should be.

Truth. However that’s the way the dice sometimes rolls.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Good grief guys, you all are freakin spoiled to the core. We've had the #1 or #2 class every year and you're wanting to call him overrated?? This isn't singling you out but geez, it's so exhausting hearing you all bitch about Cal. Only 1 other school has had a better class than us ever since Cal has been here. Any other program would do flips to get guys we have gotten. It's just ridiculous actually. Its constant negativity around here and I think I may just need a break. You all want perfection every year with every class and it's just NEVER gonna be the case. It's just not, so get over it and enjoy what we have. So quickly you all forget about the last years of Tubby and the BCG era. Relax!!!!!!

Agreed. It’s hard to take @Calsthebomb serious as literally (just check ) all of His posts and comments are bashing both our football and basketball programs. Who does that ?

There are posters on here who i disagree with but at least they’re truly fans and not bored 13 year old emo style “fans” (OP being one of them...:/)

 

[true blue1]

Cals teams only go as far as the quality of the big men. Its a proven fact

This!

 

[The_Answer1313]

My outside perspective is that Cal sells UK as a pit-stop to the NBA, and that he expects recruits to come in and treat their time at UK as a job where they'll work incredibly hard. I don't know a ton of 18 year olds (and their parents) to whom that message is all that appealing, especially if they're top tier recruits who can be successful anywhere. If anything, it seems like it would appeal to recruits who no one else thinks is a potential 1AD (like Green, Herro, Diallo, Briscoe, etc.), which usually means recruits in the 15 - 50 range. And because Cal is selling those guys on getting to the NBA after one year, a bunch of them are disappointed when that doesn't happen, and they think staying another year at UK isn't what they signed up for.

It's the worst outcome - good (not great) players who want to leave after 1 year no matter what.

This is what the outside person thinks that isn't a UK fan. Heck some UK fans think this.

But based on what we've been told, the NBA isn't even mentioned while he's on the recruiting trail.

Sure schools get a certain rep and maybe UK has that rep, but Cal isn't going into these houses and actively selling that.

Honestly it's not the message or kids changing. It's just things go in cycles and currently it's not our time.

 

[MegaBlue05]

This board needs Xanax, a piece of ass and a hobby. Sheesh.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

We’re not paying the players that is why the top kids go elsewhere because schools like Duke, KU, Arizona, LSU, Miami, NC St, and Michigan St. Are willing to give them whatever and tell them whatever to get them on campus and when what they were promised doesn’t happen you get situations like with Duke and they get blasted! Oh I almost forgot UL gave many benefits! Cals hands are tied behind his back!

This is what it boils down to.

It's not the USA Team.
It's not his "Work hard" pitch.
It's not the fans.
It's not the parents (well, sometimes it is)
It's not losing to Wisconsin in 2015.
It's cheating. It's illegal benefits. It's negative recruiting. It's lying to recruits.

Duke is getting recruits who have no business going there, guys they've NEVER been able to land..none of them want to go to Kentucky all the sudden? You have several players coming out after their year at Duke that are PISSED.

The problem is, what do you do? I'm all for doing the same shit that Duke does, but Cal will get caught immediately. That's when the NCAA will have "had enough".

He's been operating with one-hand tied behind his back for years now.. Actually, since coming to Kentucky. In a sad way, he's almost tainted goods. Love the guy, but we have to face the reality that our coach is never going to be allowed to be a 10.

 

[UKfan215]

I actually prefer the way Cal is recruiting these days. He is going after just the type of kids he should be recruiting. The problem is that the kids who should be staying for multiple years are still trying to leave after their freshmen season. I am afraid Cal has become a victim of his own success. For years he has branded himself as the guy to get guys to the league in a hurry, so now, most of the kids he signs still come in with that expectation. The kind of kids he's been recruiting the past few years are perfect for our needs. But he's got to find a way to convince those kids to hang around at least a couple of years to have success with the present strategy. We're still experiencing far too much roster turnover for the caliber of recruits we're landing.