Spot on brother you flat nailed it. Let the tough guys fire away but you are over the Target with this post!
Buy or sell: Your takes on Kentucky basketball
- Thread starter JRowland
- Start date
While it's certainly easy to sell on this season, I'm inclined to hold as well. And while the system has been broken, and it was disheartening to see players leave last year that had no business going, isn't it almost assured we will have multiple returners next season. Assuming 3 first round picks and 2 seniors gone, that leaves Askew, Allen, Brooks, Toppin, Ware, Fletcher. Hopefully a reason to buy going forward.
At my age, I just can't sell. I've been a UK fan all my life. Am I a Cal fan, not necessarily, but I'm not a Cal hater. I don't care who the coach is, I just want to WIN. I want a coach to put UK First, and I really don't think that is the case with Cal. After reading his book, I changed my opinion of him. I have NEVER thought he was a good coach. I have always thought he was a good recruiter, and should win because he had more talent then other teams. That has not held true. I have seen him out coached so many times, and it has cost us games. If your not going to play basics, Pick and Roll, give and go, back door cuts, etc. then you MUST have shooters who can loosen the defense up, and make them guard you, not pack it in. You also must have ball movement, not stand and hold it, or just dribble around, waiting to "DRIVE IT." UK Fans are very knowledgeable basketball fans. Most have played the sport in high school, college or in pick -up games. When I was with Northwest Airlines, we won the Airline Championship, and went to Japan and beat their Olympic team, 96 to 93. We had a couple of players on our team who played college ball on a scholarship. If Cal would recruit some 4 star players and build a nucleus with them, and include a couple of 5 stars, with some shooters, he would be better off.
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Once a HUGE sunshine pumper myself... I’m honestly not sure and I never thought I’d say that.
I’m leaning sell but idk. I’m not sure we could necessarily get anybody better.
I’m leaning sell but idk. I’m not sure we could necessarily get anybody better.
That is a concern. I have OAD fatigue, ready for more consistency.
Recruiting fell off?
Fox and Bam and monk were 3 of top 12 players cal has had. Murray top 10 . Boston and clarke are aswell.
Really? Where?
Arizona
Duke
Unc lose about everyone
All the blue bloods lose their top freshmen
Same. I mean it’s still kinda fun and all but idk. An entire new team year after year after year and we get excited wh he someone stays for 2 whole years?
I know I know- they’re not playing “for me” (although an argument can be made that without fans-and their $- there would be no billion $ NCAA as it stands) but still... dare I say it’s a bit boring and ho hum at times? I’m happy as hell for these kids but at the same time I don’t want to invest all my time, fandom, $ and energy into a bunch of dudes going on to make more $ in 1 year than I will make my entire life.
Since when was it my responsibility to unilaterally get super excited and want complete 18 year old strangers to make millions of $? I mean I’m happy they are and they deserve it but I don’t care as much as I’m supposed to I don’t think.
Wanna make a friendly wager about how far this years team gets? Personally as much as I love the Cats we just don’t have the returning experience and out of this world talent to win it imo. I say S16 maybe EE.
What about you?
Such a complicated question. He’s a Higgins and an off-Herro night away from having two additional Final Fours. Put last year’s team in position to make a run. Will probably do the same with this team. The talent is there. Boston, Clarke and Askew won’t remain ice cold forever.
I’m holding for now.
I’m holding for now.
This x2. This is a big season, both because Cal has momentarily returned to having freshmen studs and also because he doesn't appear to have a very good class lined up yet for next year with no RSCI top 10 guys. If he fails with Boston/Clarke and fails to land Hardy, I'll sell at that point.
Fair points. But can't all the elite programs make the same claim? Duke almost made the Final Four in '18 and '19. Cal isn't paid to " almost" get to the Final Four when the bracket opens up like it did in '18 and '19. Got to capitalize on those opportunities.
This is a huge year for him, but I'm like you in that I'm willing to hold for now.
Curious as to why you think Cal thinks making money is more important than the college experience. I have never heard him say that. We have all heard the players first, help the kids reach their dreams, etc., but I have never heard him say anything along the lines of, "making money is more important than coming to college."
Cal does not like the one and done. He has long fought for a 2 year minimum rule. He has also said numerous times that not everyone is on the same path. He got PJ to make the right decision, WCS, the Harrison twins, etc., so it is possible to bring the right ones back.
I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that Cal doesn't "push" them out the door unless he truly believes they are making a mistake by staying. I also think that Cal gives them honest feedback if he thinks they aren't ready. These kids and their families are counting their dough before they graduate high school. No matter how much they love Cal and UK, some of these players take bad advice from someone (family members, agents, friends) and make the jump. Maybe the new rule about being able to return will help alleviate the issue, but we need to figure out how to bring back the Hagans, Ej's, and Dakari's of the world.
A huge part of the problem is these kids can make more money than they have ever seen even if they don't get drafted. It is nothing to go to the CBA, Euro League, or China and make $250K a year. That is damn good money for playing a sport they love and continuing to build their skills, just as they would at UK. For shits and giggles, let's use Dakari as an example, someone we all thought would "benefit" by returning. He was drafted in the late second round, spent some time in the G-League, had a very short spell in the NBA, and is now in China. Here is the money he has made since he has left UK. He has made over 2 million in the NBA and as hard as I tried, I could not find details of his China contract. Let's assume he is making $175,00K. He was the MVP of the league, so I think that is a conservative number.
What 19 year old kid would not want to make $150,000 playing the game he loves. I think these kids are looking at it from this perspective, whether we agree with it or not. They can leave school, go make a very nice salary while practicing to get better. What is the point of staying in school?
The below numbers are what he made from the NBA.
| 2017-18 | $815,615 | $815,615 |
| 2018-19 | $459,414 | $459,414 |
| 2019-20* | $459,414 | $459,414 |
| 2020-21 | $459,414 | $459,414 |
Buy. I think he has a good roster to make a run. Definitely not going to develop an overall opinion on the season after three games.
You're being optimistic. With UT and Auburn on the rise we'll be lucky if we don't have 11 losses. NIT or a 9 seed for us.
Im a buyer, but it's based off of a belief that these guys actually can shoot and that the offensive problems are a result of limited playing time together. Might change in a month, but this is gosh darn Kentucky and we don't give up on our favorite team. In fact, we get pissed, and we get defensive, and we attack anyone that has an ill word to say about the program period. At least that's how it used to be. That's the Kentucky fan competitive spirit. Not the incessant whining we are witnessing now.
Cal is not alone, most people do put the value of money over an education. But to deny Cal has promoted money over education is quite some mental gymnastics. Honestly I think it's a bit of a false choice to begin with, but if I had to make a case one way or the other? Of course he puts the value of money over an education.
Elite 8 is a pretty good season. Our fans act like it's a travesty to make an elite 8. Ridiculous.
Is there a team that has made more elite 8's than cal in that span? Nope
We aren't talking just money.
We're talking millions. Every person on the face of the earth would do so
Now, that certainly isn’t true. There are many people who choose less money and more impact. The most brilliant man I ever knew chose to be a middle school math teacher instead of being a medical doctor. His family went nuts, but he wanted to make an impact in the classroom with kids.
The money rules all mentality is a problem, and many people reject it.
Well EE is pretty good yeah; but everyone’s valid concerns point out that the bulk of the dominance was 2009-2015.
Since Wisconsin loss it’s been meh for Kentucky standards.
Again, EE are a nice consolation prize now and again. They’re fine enough. What they shouldn’t be is something Kentucky basketball should aspire too nor should it be considered an amazing season as you seem to think.
I may even think differently if we had a bunch of dudes who grinded for 2-4 years and just did the best they could but it’s not very fun watching a crop of new dudes every year, who don’t care about me or you (understandable) play like taint most of the year only to “turn it on” in the tourney and make it to the EE then bounce for the draft/ 2nd round/ overseas/ not drafted at all.
Slow Cal's overriding message since he's been here has been getting guys to the league to fulfill their dreams and he wanted UK to be known as the place to do that faster than anyone. That's why he constantly touts his record of getting guys to the NBA, says the draft day was the biggest day ever, talks about how guys who are top picks HAVE TO GO NOW.I know he doesn't like one & done but he more than anyone else created the culture for it, no question about it.
My message from Cal & everybody else is clear....getting the BIG money is THE most important thing & the impression given is you have to get the mega money to be happy and secure in life. I've never once heard him or any other coach say, you know money can never buy back these years right now you experience in college, what's the hurry.
Has all the Mega money really seem to have made all of our former stars completely happy on life.. Do you think any of them later on would give anything to have some of these years back. Wouldn't 99% of them been able to do both - enjoy college & being young & still end up rich & famous after?
Look I like Cal & think he does really care about his guys more than most, & I do believe he hates to have to re-tool every year with new guys, but there is no question he perpetuated the situation he faces today and I think he regrets it some.
Buy buy and buy some more. This team's ceiling in ridiculous. Jackson...8 blocks and 12 boards against Kansas, in his 3rd college game. 😳
(Edit) For some perspective, albeit different teams: 2011 kentucky vs. kansas. Anthony Davis comparison stats: 7 blocks, and 6 rebounds.
(Edit) For some perspective, albeit different teams: 2011 kentucky vs. kansas. Anthony Davis comparison stats: 7 blocks, and 6 rebounds.
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I never said the elite 8 is a great season to be held high. One thing our fan base has failed to do is adjust with times . The game is completely different now than even 7 years ago. When have you ever seen a team including uk do better than what cal has done over 11 seasons? You are asking for things that don't happen. All of the top talent in the country want to make money . Are you gonna be ok with a team of avg players lose 12-15 games a couple of seasons to perhaps have a chance at making the final 4 in season 3?
I want to have a team that has a chance to win the title every season and cal is the only person in college basketball that has done that consistently. 1 point kept us from the final 4 in 2 of the last 3 tournaments. Last year's team would have been right there as well because of our guard play.
In order to ask for change you must have an answer. In reality.
Or it could be Cal's philosophy to get them in the pros as soon as possible.
For so many of the younger fans it seems that tournament performance is their measure of Kentucky basketball and THAT is the byproduct of the Cal Culture many old timers hate the most. Their was a time when UK fans looked forward to the basketball season not just March . There were the big rivalry games of December, like UNC and Indiana which Cal has killed. Many of us traveled to one of the holiday tournaments as part of our yearly vacation, Cal has nixed that since his green teams would get waxed in something like Maui Invitational. We looked forward to going to Memorial and then Rupp to see Uk play at least 1 long time rival at home. Now Cal insists most decent non conference games be played at neutral cites. Games in November and December “mattered” almost as much as those in February and rarely did we get hosed by the selection committee in the NCAA draw because we had beaten who we should have and then some out of conference. How many times have we heard Cal whine about being shafted by the committee in seeding and draw when in reality the committee just looked at UK’s season in its entirety and found it lacking because in places besides Calipari World the whole season still matters. At one time there was tremendous excitement among fans about every game and a feeling of pride EVERY TIME the Cats took the floor. Is that true today, hardly any objective fan can say it is. The refrain in the early season under Cal has become I sure hope he gets this figured out. I HATE the Calipari culture and what he has done to my beloved program.
I’m buying all the Cal stock that anyone wants to sell. I only wish I could make cash on these acquisitions. Come March and April, I would be cashing big time.
