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Buy or sell: Your takes on Kentucky basketball

If buying or selling could monetized, I would buy all the Kentucky stock the fans posting here would be willing to sell. Too many of our fans are unrealistic or have extremely short memories. Except for a couple of seasons, 2010, 2012 and 2015, all Cal’s teams started out slow and ugly but significantly improved by late January to mid February. I believe we will see this happen again this year.

Our young players, as athletically gifted as they may be, have only been practicing as a college team for a few months. They have only played 3 college games. This time last year the freshmen were playing in high school. Askew was only a junior in high school. In high school, for the most part, these young men were the stars and easily dominated other high school players who were the same or younger in age.

Now, these same guys are generally playing against older, more experienced players who have been playing as a team much longer and who are much better coached than the teams they played in high school. Additionally, These uber talented high school stars have to learn they can‘t be the only star on the team. This is a tough adjustment for most of them. They have to learn to share and work together with the other highly rated players. This usually takes time for each of them to learn and accept their role on the team.

Finally, for those who want to dump Cal, who would you choose to come in and equal or exceed what Cal has accomplished? Give me a name. Many of our fans are either too young or have dementia. Do you not remember how nationally irrelevant Kentucky was during the Billy Gillespie debacle and the last several years under Tubby Smith? Cal instantly rescued us. He made us prime time. Cal greatly enhanced the UK brand which has continued for 11 years. UK, Duke, Kansas and North Carolina are the super elite college basketball programs. I see no basis to risk our national standing by turning the program over to someone else. Coach K ain’t coming to UK.

Let’s have some patience. UK will become much better when it really counts. I’ll buy all the UK stock you want to sell.
I hope you are right,this crew has a loooooooog way to go in order to be just decent. You have been around a long time and I respect your take on all things UK but this group has a different look to them(and I don't mean the hair)
 
Do you think he pushes Tyler Ulis out or MKG. Ask them.

MKG? He was the second pick in the draft? Tyler Ulis is a very unique situation. We both know that there is no chance of him being drafted if he goes anywhere but UK. In this situation, I do think he advised Tyler to leave. It was his only shot at getting drafted and his only chance to get paid. That is not "pushing someone out the door."

Now you can answer my question.
 
I hope you are right,this crew has a loooooooog way to go in order to be just decent. You have been around a long time and I respect your take on all things UK but this group has a different look to them(and I don't mean the hair)
This is never going to be a good shooting team. When they get more efficient offensively and get better looks the shooting will improve, of course, but it’s never going to be national championship quality IMO. I hope I’m wrong.
 
Right now I would hold my stock but I wouldn't buy or sell either. Calipari needs top level talent for his One and Done system to work. Is he really getting that? Again, we will have to wait and see. Every year people on here have orgasms over highlights of some kid that can barely drive a car. Then when the season starts they are already looking to the next seasons world beating class coming in and all the flashy highlight reels from AAU BB. One thing about Calipari IMO, he doesn't give a rats ass about November/December UK basketball. During a "normal" year, I would be furious if I was a season ticket holder and had to endure the games that role into Rupp Arena pre-SEC schedule.
 
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Realized I forgot to answer the question.

Obviously buying. I think these things go in cycles.

This team is almost unwatchable on offense right now but they will figure this out.
 
I hope you are right,this crew has a loooooooog way to go in order to be just decent. You have been around a long time and I respect your take on all things UK but this group has a different look to them(and I don't mean the hair)

Doc, I agree. This team has been frustrating to watch. Against Kansas, they looked like 5 guys who just met one other at the YMCA for a pick up game. If I hadn’t witnessed Cal’s teams substantially improve by the end of the year, I might be more concerned. However, Cal has a proven track record of getting his teams to improve. In Sarr, Jackson, Boston and Clarke, I see exceptional talent even in comparison to several other UK teams. I also believe other players will begin to shine as the season moves forward. Initially, there were comparatively low expectations because of their 4 star ratings, for Booker, Alexander and Herto. I suspect we will see some major improvement from at least one of the other freshmen or transfers or Keion Brooks or Dante Allen.

If it turns out I’m wrong, so be it but if this were the equivalent of a stock investment purchase, I would buy all of the UK stock I could obtain.
 
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I'm exhausted by always starting slow. I'm sick of always waiting until March.

I remember in 2009/2010 Cal came out preaching about we are the gold standard. But we haven't been that in a while. We're rarely top 5. We spend a lot of time ranked in the teens and 20's.

It's nice going into March thinking we've figured it out and have a real chance. But with no Final 4's in the past 5 years, it's a let down. We spend 5 months saying "wait until the tournament," and then we fizzle out in the tournament too.

Duke and Kansas spend alot of time in the top 5/10. Villanova and Gonzaga do too.

We seem to struggle with basic basketball to an extent the freshmen at other schools never do. And I don't understand why guys can go to Duke, Kansas, Villanova and play well early as Freshmen--but they come to KY and it takes months for them to learn to play team basketball.
 
I look at it just like I did with Corona virus; didn't sell thru all that mess and waited it out. Same here with UK.
Not happy with things but I do not have control over any of them, so ride it out and hope for the best.
Can't help watching teams like West Virginia who has no where near the talent we have but they are a really good team.
You do not need a team full of wanna be NBA'ers to compete ad win.
What pisses me is everyone knows the early games do mean something to the NCAA selection committee. Losing early puts you in a hole later that makes it that much harder to win. Sometimes it looks like Cal has this attitude "its my way or no way"; nothing wrong with a good coach changing with the times.
 
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I will pay you $5,000 for your season tickets each year if that is what UK is charging you.
You do know they are available through the UK ticket office don't you? Give them a call at (800) 928-2287. They will accept credit cards and you can work out a payment plan if you desire.

Due to COVID-19 there is only limited seating this season but you can give it a try. If you want season tickets let them know and I would say you have an excellent chance of getting in next year. Probably lower arena seats. There is a "basketball donation" required to purchase them but it is only a couple of thousands of dollars. Once you pay that you can buy tickets. The tickets should only cost you about $3,000, depending on where you want to sit.

Is there any reason you have not already purchased them? Tickets have been available for a number of years. My sister gave up her season tickets a few years ago as have several of my friends. Good luck and enjoy.
 
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I look at it just like I did with Corona virus; didn't sell thru all that mess and waited it out. Same here with UK.
Not happy with things but I do not have control over any of them, so ride it out and hope for the best.
Can't help watching teams like West Virginia who has no where near the talent we have but they are a really good team.
You do not need a team full of wanna be NBA'ers to compete ad win.
What pisses me is everyone knows the early games do mean something to the NCAA selection committee. Losing early puts you in a hole later that makes it that much harder to win. Sometimes it looks like Cal has this attitude "its my way or no way"; nothing wrong with a good coach changing with the times.

The seeding is definitely a good point.
Even tho we made final fours as a 4 seed and 8 seed, it's not something you want to do on a regular basis.

Tho FWIW we were 2 seeds in both 17 and 19 so our regular seasons those years clearly did not hurt us. I believe one of those years were we overall 5th so extremely close to a 1 seed.
 
Doc, I agree. This team has been frustrating to watch. Against Kansas, they looked like 5 guys who just met one other at the YMCA for a pick up game. If I hadn’t witnessed Cal’s teams substantially improve by the end of the year, I might be more concerned. However, Cal has a proven track record of getting his teams to improve. In Sarr, Jackson, Boston and Clarke, I see exceptional talent even in comparison to several other UK teams. I also believe other players will begin to shine as the season moves forward. Initially, there were comparatively low expectations because of their 4 star ratings, for Booker, Alexander and Herto. I suspect we will see some major improvement from at least one of the other freshmen or transfers or Keion Brooks or Dante Allen.

If it turns out I’m wrong, so be it but if this were the equivalent of a stock investment purchase, I would buy all of the UK stock I could obtain.
I might go with out of the money call options, kinda like buying a lottery ticket
 
Right now I would hold my stock but I wouldn't buy or sell either. Calipari needs top level talent for his One and Done system to work. Is he really getting that? Again, we will have to wait and see. Every year people on here have orgasms over highlights of some kid that can barely drive a car. Then when the season starts they are already looking to the next seasons world beating class coming in and all the flashy highlight reels from AAU BB. One thing about Calipari IMO, he doesn't give a rats ass about November/December UK basketball. During a "normal" year, I would be furious if I was a season ticket holder and had to endure the games that role into Rupp Arena pre-SEC schedule.
I think "hold" is what I'd do.
 
Sell, and that is what I have been trying to do with my season tickets of 60 years. Sell to a family member but nobody wants them.

The worst $5,000 a man can spend each year
Will be interesting to see attendance levels post-pandemic
 
I say sell. The recruiting has fallen off since 2015. It is clear that Cal needs top 5 talent to succeed. I think he was always a mediocre bench coach at best. Since he has been at Kentucky, he trys to out talent every one else, and his main focus is getting guys drafted. His priorities seem to be in the wrong place, he should be trying his very best to win championships for UK. Most fans are sick of the OAD, entirely new team every year and still lose in the tourney to less talented teams, but better coached teams. Cal dis-respects the fan base and he has gone woke, and political. His time is up, IMO, because I do not think he will attempt to change anything.

I would have sold 3-4 years ago and probably would now, but at the same time maybe Cal ends up with an ideal roster of truly stud frosh (who are skilled and ready to contribute at this level right away) AND some experienced talent. It happened in 2017 with 3 dynamic frosh. They had growing pains but were skilled and dynamic from day 1.. That roster also had experienced talent/skill in Briscoe and Willis and Hawkins and some other pieces. Maybe for next year Cal lands Hardy and the other CG they are after in the top 10 and these frosh are similarly skilled and dynamic early. And maybe guys like Askew, Jackson, Fletcher come back and provide some experience. Or even a Brooks.

It's just gotten to the point where building that ideal roster that you need to compete for a title is getting much more difficult for Cal. A lot has to fall into place with this model and the brand that Cal has built. Your frosh have to include a few legit Studs AND your experienced guys have also got to be talented enough to contribute as well. I don't believe last year's frosh were good enough and I don't believe in 2016 and 2018 the experienced returnees were good enough. This year sadly it appears both may be true...no stud frosh AND not enough talented returnees. We'll see over the next few years if that formula can be recreated.
 
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Entitled and spoiled fan base. It’s embarrassing when commentators bring up how loud and obnoxious the UK fans are. To coach at UK you have to have thick skin, screw you attitude and I applaud Cal and former coaches who gave it a try.

The fan base is WHY we have the best college program historically in the sport. Because we have a great tradition we want to protect it and grow it. That’s not entitled or spoiled it’s called working hard to earn what you get and wanting to keep it. Stick to your football first fandom if you’re fine with mediocrity
 
They would come back if Mr Ego wouldnt push them out the door
Cal pushing them out the door is not the problem. I dont think he encourages kids to leave that are not ready. The problem is the culture of the program, which Cal has created. Every kid that comes here is told that we can get them to the NBA quicker than any other program. So the mindset of our players is to leave ASAP, whether they are ready or not.
 
The successful formula for Cal seems pretty clear to me. Get at least two or three of the top five recruits AND have at least two or three key returnees from the previous season. That seems to be the hallmark of all his best teams. So we have to get back to that or change recruiting philosophy entirely. If you think one of those two can happen then buy. I’m torn right now. I’m not real optimistic about this year’s team but I do think there are signs that Cal is changing.
I'm with you in spirit, I believe. But I actually think that UK should generally only target one-and-done recruits if:

(1) the recruits' exceptional athletic ability will fill a hole in a returning starting group (e.g., need rebounding or shot-blocking);

(2) the recruit is highly developed skill-wise, approaching the level of some of the better upperclassmen in skill development, so that he can excel in college right-away (very few of these exist); or

(3) the player is such a transcendental type player (e.g., Davis, Zion) that, despite being a long way from a finished product, his physical talent causes college teams trying to react to him to be taken out of what they do;

Otherwise, I think the one-and-done players are largely fool’s gold, because by the time they develop into a good college player the season is over and they’re not coming back next year so that the team can enjoy the fruits of their labor.

So, if I got to choose, I would instead focus on building the core of the team around experienced higher skill level players – by recruiting higher-skilled players and developing your own upperclassmen (e.g., PJ Washington, Derek Willis, Allen, new recruits Hickman and Hopkins) or “stealing” transfers who have already developed (e.g., Travis, Sarr, Mintz) - and highly athletic players who can initially fill specialized roles, some of which will leave early due to that athleticism (e.g., Noel, Adebayo, Jackson, new recruit Collins) and some of which will stick-around and develop more (e.g., Willie Cauley-Stein, Poythress, Marcus Lee).
 
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You do know they are available through the UK ticket office don't you? Give them a call at (800) 928-2287. They will accept credit cards and you can work out a payment plan if you desire.

Due to COVID-19 there is only limited seating this season but you can give it a try. If you want season tickets let them know and I would say you have an excellent chance of getting in next year. Probably lower arena seats. There is a "basketball donation" required to purchase them but it is only a couple of thousands of dollars. Once you pay that you can buy tickets. The tickets should only cost you about $3,000, depending on where you want to sit.

Is there any reason you have not already purchased them? Tickets have been available for a number of years. My sister gave up her season tickets a few years ago as have several of my friends. Good luck and enjoy.

Thanks for this. Much appreciated. Like you, I have had season tickets since Rupp Arena opened in 1976. I got them while I was still a student at UK. However my tickets are in the upper level. I sat next to the dust on the red heating ducts in Rupp for 43 years until I was moved last year to Section 231, seven rows up in the upper level. I only pay what the tickets cost which is around $2,800 for two seats. I don’t have to pay anything into the K fund.for these tickets.

I’m looking to purchase lower level season tickets. The last time I called the UK ticket office which was about 10 years ago they had no seats available. Interestingly, I asked what it would cost to get two floor seats in Rupp. At the time, I had 2 floor seats for the Women’s games at Memorial Coliseum and the view of course, was incredible. I paid $1500 for two floor seats to watch the women play. The cost for two floor seats to attend the men’s games at Rupp? $750,000!!! I had to laugh when they offered to let me to spread the payments out in equal installments of $75,000 spread out over 10 years. What a deal!
 
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MKG? He was the second pick in the draft? Tyler Ulis is a very unique situation. We both know that there is no chance of him being drafted if he goes anywhere but UK. In this situation, I do think he advised Tyler to leave. It was his only shot at getting drafted and his only chance to get paid. That is not "pushing someone out the door."

Now you can answer my question.
Well MKG said he wanted to come back and Cal told him no. Not saying a cal was wrong, but another poster said Cal never pushes them out the door. I gave 2 examples of where he did.

What was your question? I missed it.
 
Cal pushing them out the door is not the problem. I dont think he encourages kids to leave that are not ready. The problem is the culture of the program, which Cal has created. Every kid that comes here is told that we can get them to the NBA quicker than any other program. So the mindset of our players is to leave ASAP, whether they are ready or not.
I agree with everything you said. Well said by the way! So the problem in my mind is that Calipari will recruit over you and kick you to the end of the bench if you don't bolt to the NBA after year one and he brings in the latest AAU stud that everyone has an orgasm over.

Let me edit this...he won't kick a previous player to the curb but he may not SHOWCASE that kid as much if the kid isn't a potential NBA Darling...meaning...how much time and effort do I need to develop this kid?
 
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I'm selling. It's not working. It worked before because Cal was getting the pick of the litter in recruiting and also have some guys return with experience. Liggins, Lamb, Jones, Harrelson, Miller, etc.
That's not happening now and he's not getting "the best of the best" as he proclaimed in his first press conference as coach of UK.
Doesn't seem to value shooting in players. Infuses the NBA into everything regarding UK basketball. Acts as if early season games are not as important anymore. UK got to where it is because every game was important, nit just March.
If Cal is not willing to change (he's not) then I would prefer him to leave. This is not the G-League on steroids. Us the fans, seem to matter very little.
Agree and the irony in all of that is the NBA has become almost completely a shooters league with the spread and spot up from 3.
 
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I’m all in. I think this team figures it out and becomes fun to watch.
 
We have all the pieces you need..just have to get on the same page as a team, it will happen.. Come March no one will want to see Kentucky in their bracket..
 
How can Cal change their mind though? Do you honestly think the gave EJ advice to enter AND stay in the draft? I agree, we have kids leave that have no business leaving, but I think many of them are against the advice of Cal and staff. It does Cal no good to watch his kids go undrafted. It doesn't help the roster. It doesn't help recruiting. It actually makes both of those harder.
True but Cal lit the spark to the whole thing nationwide not just here. He went all in on players first, professional big money as the goal above college experience a long time ago and just like a parent who gives kids a lot of rope then tries to reel them back in, that aint happenin.
 
Not sure about this year's team. But I'm also not sure that you could have gotten a gauge on any of Cal's recent teams within their first few games. The problem, which a lot of folks seem unwilling to admit, is that these early season struggles just make it much more difficult to compete for a title even if the players and team improve. It eliminates the chances for a high seed. It means the road will be tougher. It leaves little margin for error. Just a tougher way to go about it. Will this team and the players get better? Of course. Enough to legitimately compete for a title? That's the challenge.
 
If I’m basing it on today’s hypothetical “price” - BUY!
Sentiment is low and the price is cheap. Check back in March and I bet this is a short term gain for me!
 
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In this sport, all that matters is March. Like it or not, that's the truth. So below I'm posting the most relevant stat I know as far as measuring what a coach has done over time. I'm trying to figure out how Calipari could dominate this statistic - and a differential of 5 in this context is dominating - if he either can't coach or needs Anthony Davis to win. So, I'm buying - greedily.

Most NCAA Tournament Wins Since 2010
1. Kentucky 31
2. Duke 26
3. Kansas 24
3. North Carolina 24
5. Michigan State 21
6. Gonzaga 20
7. Michigan 18
7. Florida 18
7. Wisconsin 18
10. Villanova 17
 
Not sure about this year's team. But I'm also not sure that you could have gotten a gauge on any of Cal's recent teams within their first few games. The problem, which a lot of folks seem unwilling to admit, is that these early season struggles just make it much more difficult to compete for a title even if the players and team improve. It eliminates the chances for a high seed. It means the road will be tougher. It leaves little margin for error. Just a tougher way to go about it. Will this team and the players get better? Of course. Enough to legitimately compete for a title? That's the challenge.

But FWIW in the years in recent memory we did have a chance to win it all (2017 and 2019) we had regular seasons that were still good enough to earn us 2 seeds. Even in a year we lose to Evansville at home, 2020 we were pegged to be a 3 or 4 seed.

So the regular season hasn't really gotten to the point where it's destroyed our seeding.
 
The fan base is WHY we have the best college program historically in the sport. Because we have a great tradition we want to protect it and grow it. That’s not entitled or spoiled it’s called working hard to earn what you get and wanting to keep it. Stick to your football first fandom if you’re fine with mediocrity
Best response I’ve seen yet. If it weren’t for the fans, UK basketball would have been mediocre during Rupps years. Fans push coaches to the limit, coaches push players to the limit. If a coach thinks he is above the program (Cal), then all is lost. He does as he pleases, fans be damned. Well, I finally say , it’s all be damned. Maybe the next coach can light my fire again, but I’m so old it’s gonna take a lot of kindling.
 
The fact that you do not have to win a national championship to make it in the nba......im selling.

I like watching nba games but i care more about college ball. We've seen teams go to the final four without much top recruits on the roster. and even after that unknown players who won nc's have barely made an nba team.
 
Best response I’ve seen yet. If it weren’t for the fans, UK basketball would have been mediocre during Rupps years. Fans push coaches to the limit, coaches push players to the limit. If a coach thinks he is above the program (Cal), then all is lost. He does as he pleases, fans be damned. Well, I finally say , it’s all be damned. Maybe the next coach can light my fire again, but I’m so old it’s gonna take a lot of kindling.
Seasoned wood, or green Hickory?
 
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I say sell. The recruiting has fallen off since 2015. It is clear that Cal needs top 5 talent to succeed. I think he was always a mediocre bench coach at best. Since he has been at Kentucky, he trys to out talent every one else, and his main focus is getting guys drafted. His priorities seem to be in the wrong place, he should be trying his very best to win championships for UK. Most fans are sick of the OAD, entirely new team every year and still lose in the tourney to less talented teams, but better coached teams. Cal dis-respects the fan base and he has gone woke, and political. His time is up, IMO, because I do not think he will attempt to change anything.

Pffft! Whatever! I LOVE hearing all about white pRiVlAgE and how amazing and easy and how few problems white people have!
 
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