Buy or sell: Your takes on Kentucky basketball
- Thread starter JRowland
- Start date
I say sell. The recruiting has fallen off since 2015. It is clear that Cal needs top 5 talent to succeed. I think he was always a mediocre bench coach at best. Since he has been at Kentucky, he trys to out talent every one else, and his main focus is getting guys drafted. His priorities seem to be in the wrong place, he should be trying his very best to win championships for UK. Most fans are sick of the OAD, entirely new team every year and still lose in the tourney to less talented teams, but better coached teams. Cal dis-respects the fan base and he has gone woke, and political. His time is up, IMO, because I do not think he will attempt to change anything.
I'm selling. It's not working. It worked before because Cal was getting the pick of the litter in recruiting and also have some guys return with experience. Liggins, Lamb, Jones, Harrelson, Miller, etc.
That's not happening now and he's not getting "the best of the best" as he proclaimed in his first press conference as coach of UK.
Doesn't seem to value shooting in players. Infuses the NBA into everything regarding UK basketball. Acts as if early season games are not as important anymore. UK got to where it is because every game was important, nit just March.
If Cal is not willing to change (he's not) then I would prefer him to leave. This is not the G-League on steroids. Us the fans, seem to matter very little.
That's not happening now and he's not getting "the best of the best" as he proclaimed in his first press conference as coach of UK.
Doesn't seem to value shooting in players. Infuses the NBA into everything regarding UK basketball. Acts as if early season games are not as important anymore. UK got to where it is because every game was important, nit just March.
If Cal is not willing to change (he's not) then I would prefer him to leave. This is not the G-League on steroids. Us the fans, seem to matter very little.
The successful formula for Cal seems pretty clear to me. Get at least two or three of the top five recruits AND have at least two or three key returnees from the previous season. That seems to be the hallmark of all his best teams. So we have to get back to that or change recruiting philosophy entirely. If you think one of those two can happen then buy. I’m torn right now. I’m not real optimistic about this year’s team but I do think there are signs that Cal is changing.
The problem is getting guys to come back for another season is such a random crapshoot IMO. Some years they will and some years they won't. It's hard to predict that tho and thus creates uncertainty
It’s especially hard to predict when the culture that as been created is “everybody goes”
Sell, and that is what I have been trying to do with my season tickets of 60 years. Sell to a family member but nobody wants them.
The worst $5,000 a man can spend each year
The worst $5,000 a man can spend each year
I already sold. I'm just coming here hoping there's enough groundswell for a change in the near future.
Amazing to think how downhill it’s been for us season ticket holders. If you would’ve told me we would have chairbacks in the upper section ten years ago, I would’ve signed a 25-year renewal.
Little did we know what Cal had in store for us on the scheduling side of things.
I don't know how that gets corrected unfortunately. Hopefully Cal can figure that one out.
Most of the kids have been told their entire life they are good enough for the NBA by everyone around them. It's hard to get them to realize that maybe they just aren't ready.
It's definitely an issue with this.
No one minds when Davis declares for the draft or Wall or Cousins.
It's some of the other guys that would benefit if they came back but they went regardless.
I think what might help is when players from previous years DO come back. Now Cal can say hey you remember PJ Washington? He came back and took off. The more players that do that, the easier sell college will be for these guys IMO
Definitely. You never know for sure what a kid will do but this seems to much less of a problem other places.
Right. I mean we had 4 guys leave off last years team that won’t play in the NBA this year. 3 undrafted and 1 transfer. I mean, come on. First round picks, go make your money. But how can we have any roster continuity like this?
Look at the bright side. If you’ve got $5K to spend on basketball tickets things must not be too bad in your world.
I'll say buy. It's a new season and a new roster. Calipari has his hands full this season but he always finds a way to build a good team.
That is a good point and a huge part of the problem. Our program encourages every player to place their name in the draft. Qualified or not just do it. No one is upset if our star player (s) declare especially if they are sure lottery but it is the rest that bothers us. We are at a point that you either put your name in the draft or transfer. Few players want to return to UK. Is it because of the way Cal coaches or is it because they feel they are a failure if they do not leave.
You can't run a program like that and expect championship results. So maybe we need to start another banner in Rupp Arena and have the names of the NBA draftees on it. This is the only way they will be remember.
Yep I agree with this. You need to have at least some semblance of continuity here.
The biggest way this gets correct I think is if guys do come back and become more productive and end up going higher in the draft than they would have. Cal could then use that as a way to say hey you CAN come back, have a productive year and end up getting more money and more benefit in the long run. It would help the player and it would also help the team.
Cal has said it so many times that people feel like a failure if they don't go after year 1.
That's just the wrong perception for these kids to have.
Add four football seasons tickets to that $5k for basketball. I am about UK'd out. But I have a lot of priority points. LOL
Two were second round picks but your point still stands.
How can Cal change their mind though? Do you honestly think the gave EJ advice to enter AND stay in the draft? I agree, we have kids leave that have no business leaving, but I think many of them are against the advice of Cal and staff. It does Cal no good to watch his kids go undrafted. It doesn't help the roster. It doesn't help recruiting. It actually makes both of those harder.
They would come back if Mr Ego wouldnt push them out the door
Whitney, Montgomery, Hagans ... all undrafted. Who was the other 2nd round pick?
What I’m calling out is the culture issue that has led to this. I don’t know how it changes now.
Do other schools experience this? I am truly asking. I just don't see Cal, with how much he cares for these kids, giving the EJ's of the world advice to leave. I can't think of one reason he would do this, but at the same time, I don't see it happening at other schools. Is it because they see all of their teammates leaving and don't want to feel like they weren't good enough?
Were Richards and Hagans not taken in the second round? I wasn’t thinking about Whitney though. I thought you meant Juzang in regard to the transfer.
Do we know if this is the case honestly? No one knows.
I think Cal gives them all the information he has from his people in the NBA and then the kid makes the decision.
It's just that most kids dream of reaching the NBA and so it doesn't take much for them to jump IMO.
I say this because there was some clear evidence of dudes jumping early that he was disappointed they went. Of course once they declare he will be behind them 100% but you could tell he wasn't on board with some of those decisions.
Sell. Cal is not a good x’s and o’s Coach. He has to have superior talent to win, Camby, Rose, Davis etc...
Hagans didn’t get drafted. You’re correct I was referring to Juzang as the transfer.
They leave or transfer because they know there's a good chance they will be sitting behind the new crop of potential draftees to showcase the following year.
Ok. I gotcha now. Anyway, it’s a real problem. And I’m afraid it goes to culture.
Hold. I'll buy if the hysterics drive the price down much more.
Cal has a proven track record with three programs of building teams capable of Final Fours and National Championships. Any other year than 1996, he wins a championship with Massachusetts. Someone hits a free throw, he wins one with Memphis. He could have 3 or 4 in Kentucky with just a little luck - 2011, 2014, 2015, 2012.
So, in the past five years he's "only" been to two Elite Eight near misses, plus missed a chance last year with a team very capable of a Final Four.
As I noted on another thread, a lot of coaches have a five-year period worse than than, then win MULTIPLE championships - if they have that ability. Roy Williams between 1997 and 2002 is an example - when he flopped with No. 1 overall seeds and never reached the Elite Eight.
The other more recent example I've been using is K at Duke who didn't progress past the Sweet 16 between the 2005 and 2009 tournaments - five straight years not cracking the Elite Eight with some very talented players. Since then, he has won two championships. No reason Cal can't do the same.
Cal has a proven track record with three programs of building teams capable of Final Fours and National Championships. Any other year than 1996, he wins a championship with Massachusetts. Someone hits a free throw, he wins one with Memphis. He could have 3 or 4 in Kentucky with just a little luck - 2011, 2014, 2015, 2012.
So, in the past five years he's "only" been to two Elite Eight near misses, plus missed a chance last year with a team very capable of a Final Four.
As I noted on another thread, a lot of coaches have a five-year period worse than than, then win MULTIPLE championships - if they have that ability. Roy Williams between 1997 and 2002 is an example - when he flopped with No. 1 overall seeds and never reached the Elite Eight.
The other more recent example I've been using is K at Duke who didn't progress past the Sweet 16 between the 2005 and 2009 tournaments - five straight years not cracking the Elite Eight with some very talented players. Since then, he has won two championships. No reason Cal can't do the same.
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Entitled and spoiled fan base. It’s embarrassing when commentators bring up how loud and obnoxious the UK fans are. To coach at UK you have to have thick skin, screw you attitude and I applaud Cal and former coaches who gave it a try.
He should have redshirted Derek Willis and Dominique Hawkins as freshman. What a difference they would have made on the 2018 team.
i love college basketball. I couldn't give a shit less about the nba. I could care less about how many players we place in the league. I wish Coach was interested in building a team here at Kentucky. He is only interested in how many stars by a recruit's name and how much money he is making for those players that he has put in the league. He won't change though. Giving him to much money to be an nba tallant scout. I want a college coach that is interested in having a winning team that is fun to watch here at Kentucky, not keep hearing but he is a 5 star, and he will be a star in the league.
If buying or selling could be monetized, I would buy all the Kentucky stock the fans posting here would be willing to sell. Too many of our fans are unrealistic or have extremely short memories. Except for a couple of seasons, 2010, 2012 and 2015, all of Cal’s teams started out slow and ugly but significantly improved by late January to mid February. I believe we will see this happen again this year.
Our young players, as athletically gifted as they may be, have only been practicing as a college team for a few months. They have only played 3 college games. This time last year the freshmen were playing in high school. Askew was only a junior in high school. For the most part, these young men were the stars and easily dominated other high school players who were the same or younger in age.
Now, these same guys are generally playing against older, more experienced players who have been playing as a team much longer and who are much better coached than the teams they played in high school. Moreover, each of these players were highly sought after by other top shelf programs. Do you think many of these coaches would turn down any UK player unless they could sign a better player? Additionally, these uber talented high school stars have to learn they can‘t be the only star on the team. This is a tough adjustment for most of them. They have to learn to share and work together with the other highly rated players. This usually takes time for each of them to learn and accept their role on the team.
Finally, for those who want to dump Cal, who would you choose to come in and equal or exceed what Cal has accomplished? Give me a name. Many of our fans are either too young or have dementia. Do you not remember how nationally irrelevant Kentucky was during the Billy Gillespie debacle and the last several years under Tubby Smith? Cal instantly rescued us. He made us prime time. Cal greatly enhanced the UK brand which has continued for 11 years. UK, Duke, Kansas and North Carolina are the super elite college basketball programs. I see no basis to risk our national standing by turning the program over to someone else. Coach K ain’t coming to UK.
Let’s have some patience. UK will become much better when it really counts. I’ll buy all the UK stock you want to sell.
Our young players, as athletically gifted as they may be, have only been practicing as a college team for a few months. They have only played 3 college games. This time last year the freshmen were playing in high school. Askew was only a junior in high school. For the most part, these young men were the stars and easily dominated other high school players who were the same or younger in age.
Now, these same guys are generally playing against older, more experienced players who have been playing as a team much longer and who are much better coached than the teams they played in high school. Moreover, each of these players were highly sought after by other top shelf programs. Do you think many of these coaches would turn down any UK player unless they could sign a better player? Additionally, these uber talented high school stars have to learn they can‘t be the only star on the team. This is a tough adjustment for most of them. They have to learn to share and work together with the other highly rated players. This usually takes time for each of them to learn and accept their role on the team.
Finally, for those who want to dump Cal, who would you choose to come in and equal or exceed what Cal has accomplished? Give me a name. Many of our fans are either too young or have dementia. Do you not remember how nationally irrelevant Kentucky was during the Billy Gillespie debacle and the last several years under Tubby Smith? Cal instantly rescued us. He made us prime time. Cal greatly enhanced the UK brand which has continued for 11 years. UK, Duke, Kansas and North Carolina are the super elite college basketball programs. I see no basis to risk our national standing by turning the program over to someone else. Coach K ain’t coming to UK.
Let’s have some patience. UK will become much better when it really counts. I’ll buy all the UK stock you want to sell.
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