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Bourbon Question?

I

Ineverplayedthegame

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Aug 12, 2005
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I am wanting advice on buying a readily available and reasonably priced wheat bourbon.

Thirty some years ago when I was first able to afford to drink nicer whiskey, I was a Maker’s fan. After a bit, I thought Woodford was the one. Then when I found I liked Four Roses even better especially the Single Barrel, I finally realized that I liked high rye bourbon. Along the way I tried Bulleit and Basil. Right now I will usually go with a straight Rye like Willett, RRSB, or Pikesville.

Obviously Pappy is considered the king of wheaters with Weller the prince. But neither is easily got much less reasonably priced. Liquor store guy pushed Bernheim or Larceny but I wasn’t sure so I bought neither.

Advice?
 
Bourbon? How much whipped cream and how many paper umbrellas would you like in your glass? Be a man and have some ‘shine, Nancy.
 
I pour vodka, gin, whiskey, and bourbon into the same glass and just get real effed up
 
Ineverplayedthegame said:
I am wanting advice on buying a readily available and reasonably priced wheat bourbon.

Thirty some years ago when I was first able to afford to drink nicer whiskey, I was a Maker’s fan. After a bit, I thought Woodford was the one. Then when I found I liked Four Roses even better especially the Single Barrel, I finally realized that I liked high rye bourbon. Along the way I tried Bulleit and Basil. Right now I will usually go with a straight Rye like Willett, RRSB, or Pikesville.

Obviously Pappy is considered the king of wheaters with Weller the prince. But neither is easily got much less reasonably priced. Liquor store guy pushed Bernheim or Larceny but I wasn’t sure so I bought neither.

Advice?
Click to expand...

Laceny is quite nice, actually.
 
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Bernheim isn't a wheated bourbon, it's wheat whiskey (it's 51% wheat in the mash bill instead of corn). That being said, it tastes very bourbon-y. But I think it's a little one dimensional, and very light on the palate, so I only really drink it in the summers when it's hot.

I did a rating of wheaters divided between standard production and limited release a year or two ago. The full list is here.

But for readily available, the top 5 for me is probably still:
  1. Maker’s Cask Strength
  2. Old Weller Antique
  3. Larceny
  4. Maker’s 46
  5. Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond
 
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ModernThirst_Bill said:
Bernheim isn't a wheated bourbon, it's wheat whiskey (it's 51% wheat in the mash bill instead of corn). That being said, it tastes very bourbon-y. But I think it's a little one dimensional, and very light on the palate, so I only really drink it in the summers when it's hot.

I did a rating of wheaters divided between standard production and limited release a year or two ago. The full list is here.

But for readily available, the top 5 for me is probably still:
  1. Maker’s Cask Strength
  2. Old Weller Antique
  3. Larceny
  4. Maker’s 46
  5. Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond
Click to expand...
Thanks Bill. I read your reviews. I am going to pick up a bottle of Larceny. If it doesn’t really work for me over ice, I won’t cringe if someone wants to mix it with a coke or ginger ale.
 
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ModernThirst_Bill said:
Bernheim isn't a wheated bourbon, it's wheat whiskey (it's 51% wheat in the mash bill instead of corn). That being said, it tastes very bourbon-y. But I think it's a little one dimensional, and very light on the palate, so I only really drink it in the summers when it's hot.

I did a rating of wheaters divided between standard production and limited release a year or two ago. The full list is here.

But for readily available, the top 5 for me is probably still:
  1. Maker’s Cask Strength
  2. Old Weller Antique
  3. Larceny
  4. Maker’s 46
  5. Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond
Click to expand...
Bill- you’ve got me excited to try the Old Fitz Bottled in Bond.
 
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ModernThirst_Bill said:
It's nice. Made by MGP in Lawrenceburg, IN, who probably makes the best rye whiskey for my taste anyway. But rye whiskey is kind of going the opposite direction of the OP's question, since it's sort of the opposite of "wheated" bourbon.
Click to expand...
What do they make in Shivley then, just Bourbon?
 
ModernThirst_Bill said:
Bernheim isn't a wheated bourbon, it's wheat whiskey (it's 51% wheat in the mash bill instead of corn). That being said, it tastes very bourbon-y. But I think it's a little one dimensional, and very light on the palate, so I only really drink it in the summers when it's hot.

I did a rating of wheaters divided between standard production and limited release a year or two ago. The full list is here.

But for readily available, the top 5 for me is probably still:
  1. Maker’s Cask Strength
  2. Old Weller Antique
  3. Larceny
  4. Maker’s 46
  5. Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond
Click to expand...

Makers cask is a great pour. It’s a little pricey but tasty.

I stock up on OWA NCF picks when they come out.
 
jameslee32 said:
What do they make in Shivley then, just Bourbon?
Click to expand...
Nothing. The old Stitzel-Weller distillery in Shively is defunct, and non operating except for warehouses and tours. There's a small experimental still there, but it only produces about a barrel per week or less. That's where Weller, Pappy, etc all originated. Diageo owns it now (along with Bulleit), and uses it for the ware houses and its historic name.

Since Bulleit was launched, it has been a "sourced" whiskey. They buy it from others and bottle it themselves. 99% the bourbon in Bulleit bottles thus far has been made at Four Roses in Lawrenceburg. That contract ended a year or so, but they have enough product aging to continue using that juice until the stocks made at their new distillery in Shelbyville are ready for bottling. That Distillery opened last summer (no public tours yet). It's very modern- all automation and computer-driven.

Though they don't like to say what their sources are, and many "experts" will argue this isn't true, I was at their bottling facility when they were blending batch 2 of their barrel proof bourbon and there were some Jim Beam barrels going into the batch. So they've used other sources at least on occasion as well.

I would guess 50-60% of the rye whiskeys (and probably 35+% of the new release bourbon labels) you see on the market today are all made at MGP in lawrenceburg. It's the old Seagram's plant. The rye is a 95% rye, 5% malted barley recipe that is excellent with a lot of citrus character to it. Some are aged there, some are aged elsewhere (Bulleit, Old Scout, etc). But they share a lot of common flavors. I personally think it's the best rye whiskey made in the US when aged correctly, blended correctly, and released at the right proof, can be exceptional.
 
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JohnKBA said:
Makers cask is a great pour. It’s a little pricey but tasty.

I stock up on OWA NCF picks when they come out.
Click to expand...

I prefer cask/barrel strength pretty much any time I'm drinking. I can always add water if it's too hot, but you can't put the cat back in the bag if it's too watered down before it goes into the bottle. If Buffalo Trace would lower the barrel entry proof, they could recapture some of that Weller magic from the good ole' days, too. Still a good whiskey anyway, but could be great. NCF helps tremendously in mouth feel (insert jokes here). But the 107 proof of OWA is a nice bump from WSR, which I find thin and flavorless.

Honestly, I prefer bourbons with rye as the secondary grain anyway- I like the spiciness. But I occasionally get a craving for a wheater, and I do appreciate them.
 
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ModernThirst_Bill said:
Nothing. The old Stitzel-Weller distillery in Shively is defunct, and non operating except for warehouses and tours. There's a small experimental still there, but it only produces about a barrel per week or less. That's where Weller, Pappy, etc all originated. Diageo owns it now (along with Bulleit), and uses it for the ware houses and its historic name.

Since Bulleit was launched, it has been a "sourced" whiskey. They buy it from others and bottle it themselves. 99% the bourbon in Bulleit bottles thus far has been made at Four Roses in Lawrenceburg. That contract ended a year or so, but they have enough product aging to continue using that juice until the stocks made at their new distillery in Shelbyville are ready for bottling. That Distillery opened last summer (no public tours yet). It's very modern- all automation and computer-driven.

Though they don't like to say what their sources are, and many "experts" will argue this isn't true, I was at their bottling facility when they were blending batch 2 of their barrel proof bourbon and there were some Jim Beam barrels going into the batch. So they've used other sources at least on occasion as well.

I would guess 50-60% of the rye whiskeys (and probably 35+% of the new release bourbon labels) you see on the market today are all made at MGP in lawrenceburg. It's the old Seagram's plant. The rye is a 95% rye, 5% malted barley recipe that is excellent with a lot of citrus character to it. Some are aged there, some are aged elsewhere (Bulleit, Old Scout, etc). But they share a lot of common flavors. I personally think it's the best rye whiskey made in the US when aged correctly, blended correctly, and released at the right proof, can be exceptional.
Click to expand...
Damn good info, Bill.
 
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I'm coming around to the same conclusion as MT_Bill regarding higher proofs and mixing them down... Until 3-4 years ago I didn't drink much of my Bourbon straight... (well I used to, but that was many years ago, and a story for another day)... 80 proofs left me wanting so I settled at 90 and the last few months a few 100 proof buys had me wondering if that taste wasn't more full... more Bourbon-y???
I have also been making clear ice... Won't say that it makes a big difference in anything but looks but .... Easy enough to make.... Makes it look like it's chopped from a block...
 
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robo222 said:
I'm coming around to the same conclusion as MT_Bill regarding higher proofs and mixing them down... Until 3-4 years ago I didn't drink much of my Bourbon straight... (well I used to, but that was many years ago, and a story for another day)... 80 proofs left me wanting so I settled at 90 and the last few months a few 100 proof buys had me wondering if that taste wasn't more full... more Bourbon-y???
I have also been making clear ice... Won't say that it makes a big difference in anything but looks but .... Easy enough to make.... Makes it look like it's chopped from a block...
Click to expand...

You can always dilute a high proof bourbon, but you can't "un-dilute" a low proof one.

There are plenty of great bourbons in the 90ish proof range (Remus Repeal reserve is excellent if you like spicy bourbon), so it's not necessarily a hard and fast rule, but let me taste it un-chill filtered and not watered down, and let me make my own decisions on how strong i need it to be. Adding water is easy. Taking it out? Not so much.
 
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Bourbon question.... Does anyone belong to a Bourbon Club/Society?
Thought's, opinions...? It's not for me that I ask.... For the wife.
 
robo222 said:
Bourbon question.... Does anyone belong to a Bourbon Club/Society?
Thought's, opinions...? It's not for me that I ask.... For the wife.
Click to expand...
Have been a member of the Bourbon Society off and on over the past 4-5 years. Let it lapse this year. They're fun. They can be a bit repetitive, and you have to commit every month in order to make them worth it.

Starting a smaller whiskey club in lieu of it.
 
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ModernThirst_Bill said:
Bernheim isn't a wheated bourbon, it's wheat whiskey (it's 51% wheat in the mash bill instead of corn). That being said, it tastes very bourbon-y. But I think it's a little one dimensional, and very light on the palate, so I only really drink it in the summers when it's hot.

I did a rating of wheaters divided between standard production and limited release a year or two ago. The full list is here.

But for readily available, the top 5 for me is probably still:
  1. Maker’s Cask Strength
  2. Old Weller Antique
  3. Larceny
  4. Maker’s 46
  5. Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond
Click to expand...
Not bo te nasty; however, the law requires a Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey to have a corn content of at least 51%. However, the corn content is usually higher (between 60% and 80%). So if Bernheim is 51% wheat by law it can't be bourbon.
 
Some of my favorites:

-Eagle Rare
-Woodford Double
-Basil Hayden
-I.W. Harper.....though, it's not a Kentucky Bourbon for all the haters out there.
 
BlueRaider22 said:
Some of my favorites:

-Eagle Rare
-Woodford Double
-Basil Hayden
-I.W. Harper.....though, it's not a Kentucky Bourbon for all the haters out there.
Click to expand...
.

I.W. Harper is a straight Kentucky Bourbon sold by Diageo, sourced from another distillery (likely Heaven Hill, at least initially). The Harper 15 year is definitely from the Bernheim distillery in Louisville, which is now Heaven Hill's. Also Kentucky Bourbon.

28qHdmH.jpg
 
ModernThirst_Bill said:
.

I.W. Harper is a straight Kentucky Bourbon sold by Diageo, sourced from another distillery (likely Heaven Hill, at least initially). The Harper 15 year is definitely from the Bernheim distillery in Louisville, which is now Heaven Hill's. Also Kentucky Bourbon.

28qHdmH.jpg
Click to expand...


Cool, thanks. I know it's bottled in Tennessee.....actually not to far from where I grew up. I'm not a location snob, so I don't look for it. It's really good though.
 
BlueRaider22 said:
Cool, thanks. I know it's bottled in Tennessee.....actually not to far from where I grew up. I'm not a location snob, so I don't look for it. It's really good though.
Click to expand...

Yup. They (Diageo) own Dickel and use its facilities for most of their non-Bulleit production work. So a lot of their operations in American Whiskey happen there. (The new Bulleit Distillery in Shelbyville is likely to be strictly Bulleit-branded products, I think). That gawd-awful Orphan Barrel Line is bottled there, too. (to be fair, two of the Orphan Barrel whiskeys have been good. Most are not)

Edit: They did build a bottling line at Stitzel-Weller a couple years ago, but I don't know what's being bottled there today. (American whiskey, I know, but I don't recall which labels. They may be moving the Orphan Barrel stuff there).
 
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ModernThirst_Bill said:
Yup. They (Diageo) own Dickel and use its facilities for most of their non-Bulleit production work. So a lot of their operations in American Whiskey happen there. (The new Bulleit Distillery in Shelbyville is likely to be strictly Bulleit-branded products, I think). That gawd-awful Orphan Barrel Line is bottled there, too. (to be fair, two of the Orphan Barrel whiskeys have been good. Most are not)

Edit: They did build a bottling line at Stitzel-Weller a couple years ago, but I don't know what's being bottled there today. (American whiskey, I know, but I don't recall which labels. They may be moving the Orphan Barrel stuff there).
Click to expand...
As always, good stuff brother Bill.
 
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