Bilas: “Tre Jones is the best defender in the nation.”

[Jacket4]

Well, unfortunately, when you lose head to head by 34, you’re not going to get the benefit of the doubt in cases like this.

I use to think that if a team bested you by more than 10 in a non competitive game. You tip your hat and shut up and worked until you got the chance to play again.

When a team rolls you by 30+ and it was clear the game was over 2 minutes in.. And your fan base spends the next 5 months dissecting every aspect of the winning team from their players to their close loses... Its just a bad look a really bad look .

 

[Titpwhami2014]

Painfully obvious that you don’t understand how advanced stats work but I have a calculator on my phone so I’ll make this easier for you.
If you map out their numbers per 40 mins to control for the fact that Hagans didn’t play as much when green was around (which should tell you something in and of itself), Jones’ win share is still 140% of Hagans despite having to accumulate those stats against a much more difficult schedule (11 vs 83 on the defensive side) and playing much heavier minutes (Performance always drops over time).
Like I’ve been saying, Hagans is a nice player and this isn’t a knock on him. He’s just not close to Jones.

I don’t care what your overrated advanced metric stats say. I’ve been watching college basketball since 1989, worked in college athletics for 15+ years and know talent when I see it. Jones is a solid player but he in no way is as disruptive as Hagans, nor is his ceiling as remotely high as Hagans at the next level. His brother is an average pro at best, and he’s not even as good as Tyus. Totally preposterous to say he “isn’t close to Jones.” Plus, your guys just beat a good Virginia team without him.

 

[Titpwhami2014]

I use to think that if a team bested you by more than 10 in a non competitive game. You tip your hat and shut up and worked until you got the chance to play again.

When a team rolls you by 30+ and it was clear the game was over 2 minutes in.. And your fan base spends the next 5 months dissecting every aspect of the winning team from their players to their close loses... Its just a bad look a really bad look .

No worse of a look than a Top-3 recruit —- who gets named in an FBI report for paying players —- commits to your school out of nowhere.

 

[MakinMusic]

I have no problem with Bilas speaking highly of a Duke player or any other. I do think he’s become over the top talkative about all things irrelevant during games. He simply talks too much about the game and about all things irrelevant to that particular game. It’s an art to be a great commentator. He hasn’t gotten there yet but may eventually.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

just like that fat ass Oakfor used to do with his big fat lazy ass, and never did the opposing player get the charge call.

This - and IIRC, they changed that rule the very next season of displacing the defender. No way duke even sniffs the Final Four had that particular rule been implemented prior to the 2014-15 season.

Oh and let's not forget, they changed the rule that you could review a shot clock violation at any time during the game. Not just under the two minute mark. Hmmm, I wonder what triggered that?!

 

[Aike]

No excuse for the Syracuse loss even with Jones and Cam out. It was a bad loss.

Exactly. Which is what I said around here when everyone was losing their minds about Seton Hall and Alabama. Every team, or nearly every team will have comparable losses before the season ends.

Right now, those two for us are quad 1 losses and Syracuse is a quad 2 loss for you. Isn’t going to destroy either resume.

 

[Aike]

Painfully obvious that you don’t understand how advanced stats work but I have a calculator on my phone so I’ll make this easier for you.
If you map out their numbers per 40 mins to control for the fact that Hagans didn’t play as much when green was around (which should tell you something in and of itself), Jones’ win share is still 140% of Hagans despite having to accumulate those stats against a much more difficult schedule (11 vs 83 on the defensive side) and playing much heavier minutes (Performance always drops over time).
Like I’ve been saying, Hagans is a nice player and this isn’t a knock on him. He’s just not close to Jones.

Jones has had a better SEASON than Hagans. Hagans wasn’t very good for the first 6 weeks or so.

You aren’t going to use a season’s worth of stats to convince anyone around here that Jones is a better player than Hagans TODAY. You’re wasting your time.

 

[IL Wildcat]

Ashton Hagans thinks that’s funny.

Ha! He said, "He's the best defender in the nation." Then he decided he had said too much, so he backtracked a bit and said, "He's the best freshman defender in America." And I thought, "You may need to backtrack again Jay." Haha! What's funny is that I'm not even slightly threatened by his statement. I KNOW he's wrong. Haha!

 

[Aike]

A little context please. Play almost any of your games without Hagans and Johnson and it would be a bad day and it wouldn’t take ot to get it done.

The context is a quad 2 home loss despite you having the top 2 draft picks and the alleged greatest coach of all time.

There’s no excuse for losing that game that won’t get you laughed at. Chalk it up as a bad night and move on. Just stop whining.

 

[Titpwhami2014]

Jones has had a better SEASON than Hagans. Hagans wasn’t very good for the first 6 weeks or so.

You aren’t going to use a season’s worth of stats to convince anyone around here that Jones is a better player than Hagans TODAY. You’re wasting your time.

Thank you.

 

[IL Wildcat]

You Duke fans are doing exactly what you should do- defend your guy. Absolutely! Quote your advances metrics for the season. There is no doubt Jones' numbers are better. Hagans wasn't playing much and he was struggling early in the season. He lacked confidence in both his defense and his shot. He was good on the ball from day one but he just wasn't quite ready.

But look Duke friends, Kentucky fans aren't just a bunch of Johnny come latelys in regard to basketball. We know great defense when we see it. Hagans has 3 or more steals for 6 games in a row, for the first time in Kentucky HISTORY. That's not just dumb luck. Tre Jones is a good player. He's a good defender, maybe one of the best in the college game. But Hagans is an elite defender. He had the potential already but just began to realize it 7 or so games ago. Since then, he's become the best defensive player we've seen in a LONG time.

I don't expect you to take my word for it, though. I expect you to keep backing your guy. You're wrong, but keep at it.

 

[Jpthegame]

I don’t care what your overrated advanced metric stats say. I’ve been watching college basketball since 1989, worked in college athletics for 15+ years and know talent when I see it.

This sounds like the plot from moneyball. All the guys talking like you got fired and the nerds with the numbers won and continue to win. Just look at all the best run pro franchises. All numbers guys.
The best thing about Tre is the numbers guys love him and the analysts call him the best defensive player in the country. Throw in a 6 to 1 assist/turnover ratio and it’s a very easy call unless you can’t see past your own bias.

 

[Jpthegame]

The context is a quad 2 home loss despite you having the top 2 draft picks and the alleged greatest coach of all time.

There’s no excuse for losing that game that won’t get you laughed at. Chalk it up as a bad night and move on. Just stop whining.

Nov 6 gets you laughed at. Playing acc comp without your two of your four best players is no joke. It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. Obviously, with some time to gameplan, Duke adjusted just fine.
We can throw rocks if you want but I’ve been pretty respectful of your guy and your team. Again, Hagans is good. Tre is better. No shame in that. I bring facts and you say “nuh uh” over and over. Unless you have something more substantial to contribute, the conversation has probably run it’s course.

 

[Jpthegame]

Jones has had a better SEASON than Hagans. Hagans wasn’t very good for the first 6 weeks or so.

You aren’t going to use a season’s worth of stats to convince anyone around here that Jones is a better player than Hagans TODAY. You’re wasting your time.

Sigh...the advanced stats account for the difference in playing time. If you’re one of the people pointing to the disparity of playing time, you are outing yourself as not understanding what contributes to the stats I offered.
You’ll notice I haven’t been using totals. I use per 40 mins, ratios, or win share stuff that controls for the difference in overall pt.
To make it really easy, Tre Jones has an assist/to ratio of 5.7/1 and he has a higher defensive win share PER 40 minutes. Hagans is playing well (albeit through a much easier schedule) but he’s got nothing that trumps that combo.

 

[Aike]

Nov 6 gets you laughed at. Playing acc comp without your two of your four best players is no joke. It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. Obviously, with some time to gameplan, Duke adjusted just fine.
We can throw rocks if you want but I’ve been pretty respectful of your guy and your team. Again, Hagans is good. Tre is better. No shame in that. I bring facts and you say “nuh uh” over and over. Unless you have something more substantial to contribute, the conversation has probably run it’s course.

It’s run it’s course because you’re on a UK board running your mouth. There’s nothing respectful about saying, “November 6th will get you laughed at.”

Let the games play out. Never seen someone so needy playing with such a pat hand.

I get that you’re nervous. Three straight one possession games for the team of the century will do that to you.

 

[Aike]

Sigh...the advanced stats account for the difference in playing time. If you’re one of the people pointing to the disparity of playing time, you are outing yourself as not understanding what contributes to the stats I offered.
You’ll notice I haven’t been using totals. I use per 40 mins, ratios, or win share stuff that controls for the difference in overall pt.
To make it really easy, Tre Jones has an assist/to ratio of 5.7/1 and he has a higher defensive win share PER 40 minutes. Hagans is playing well (albeit through a much easier schedule) but he’s got nothing that trumps that combo.

Has nothing to do with playing time. Hagans wasn’t playing very well early, and now he is.

I’m going to guess that I have a better understanding of advanced stats than you do. But I’m almost positive that I have a better understanding of the game of basketball.

Tre Jones is a good player and he’s had a nice season, spoon feeding the two most talented players in the country. You want a cookie or what?

 

[C5matt]

I don’t care what your overrated advanced metric stats say. I’ve been watching college basketball since 1989, worked in college athletics for 15+ years and know talent when I see it. Jones is a solid player but he in no way is as disruptive as Hagans, nor is his ceiling as remotely high as Hagans at the next level. His brother is an average pro at best, and he’s not even as good as Tyus. Totally preposterous to say he “isn’t close to Jones.” Plus, your guys just beat a good Virginia team without him.

Well said! Hagans wiil get the better of a Jones if we play them on the tourney! Question is can PJ and Keldon play much better the next time against Zion and RJ!? I think they can and we will win a close one this time. I still think we get #9 this year!

 

[UK_born_b_bread]

Hagans didn’t play starter minutes the first month of the season.

Do better.

What does that matter? Doesn't defensive win share normalize for minutes played?

 

[Mike-D]

Well, you know, the two did play head to head earlier this season ...remember how that went?

I’m trying to figure out why this makes one dude better at defense. We have some purebred morons on this board.

 

[Mike-D]

Tre Jones is actually a better defender than Hagans. He has been a terror all season on defense. I don't know about best, but Jones is legit.

Hagans has more steals. It’s close, though. I don’t watch Duke, but it’s hard for me to envision a better defender right now.

 

[Skyguyb27]

Nov 6 gets you laughed at. Playing acc comp without your two of your four best players is no joke. It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. Obviously, with some time to gameplan, Duke adjusted just fine.
We can throw rocks if you want but I’ve been pretty respectful of your guy and your team. Again, Hagans is good. Tre is better. No shame in that. I bring facts and you say “nuh uh” over and over. Unless you have something more substantial to contribute, the conversation has probably run it’s course.

Run your metrics for the last 8 games and get back to me.

 

[ConRay9]

Nov 6 gets you laughed at. Playing acc comp without your two of your four best players is no joke. It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. Obviously, with some time to gameplan, Duke adjusted just fine.
We can throw rocks if you want but I’ve been pretty respectful of your guy and your team. Again, Hagans is good. Tre is better. No shame in that. I bring facts and you say “nuh uh” over and over. Unless you have something more substantial to contribute, the conversation has probably run it’s course.

Sigh...the advanced stats account for the difference in playing time. If you’re one of the people pointing to the disparity of playing time, you are outing yourself as not understanding what contributes to the stats I offered.
You’ll notice I haven’t been using totals. I use per 40 mins, ratios, or win share stuff that controls for the difference in overall pt.
To make it really easy, Tre Jones has an assist/to ratio of 5.7/1 and he has a higher defensive win share PER 40 minutes. Hagans is playing well (albeit through a much easier schedule) but he’s got nothing that trumps that combo.

The tone of these two comments are absolutely hilarious. It just screams “I’m backhandedly complimenting the shit out of you so thank me or I’ll tell you how I REALLY feel!” And then the sigh, that is straight comedy. No one is going to give you a pat on the back for aggressively defending the subjective idea your player is better at defense. The more obnoxious you get, the less serious anyone is going to take you. You getting increasingly flustered is just something to be laughed at, so by all means continue.

The PER 40 minutes numbers are nice and all, but a lot of that still chalks up to playing on a really good defensive team. If the last 8 or so games each have played are compared, I’m sure the numbers would be close. Hagans doesn’t have the luxury of shotblocking the same way Jones does either. Hagans is 3 games away from tying Chris Paul’s freshman record of 10 straight games with 3 or more steals. Those aren’t numbers to be scoffed at the way you have been despite claiming you’ve “complimented” him.

Jones wouldn’t be getting mocked if “analysts” like Bilas weren’t shoved so far up Duke’s ass. The ESPN hype machine realizes Zion can be the story 90% of the time, but other narratives have to make up the other 10%—such as Jones becoming some godlike defender. Is he one of the best in college basketball? Sure, but he’s not this perfectly molded Gary Payton clone you and others keep pedaling. He lacks size and length to be truly elite at the next level. He makes up for this with vision and lateral quickness, but his straight-line speed isn’t great. Hagans overall is much more athletic than Jones is. Combine that with bigger size and length and it’s reasonable to think Hagans has recently overtaken his ability to defend.

 

[UKCatnNC]

Well I have looked at this jpthegame and I can surely ignore it without missing any useful information now or in the future. GO CATS!!

 

[silentsaregolden2.0]

Jones - 33 steals, 2 blocks in 468 mins

Hagans - 39 steals, 4 blocks in 420 mins.

But it's not even close, right Bilas?

 

[WildcatDJ]

They just announced the midseason list for defensive players of the year...

Ashton Hagans is listed, but no Tre Jones.

 

[BlueBlood66]

They just announced the midseason list for defensive players of the year...

Ashton Hagans is listed, but no Tre Jones.

Too much love and attention for Zion.

 

[Bluemamba]

Hell, Herro is a better defender than Tre Jones.

agree a much better player for sure

 

[BBUK]

Too much love and attention for Zion.

Yeah, and how is that going over with the rest of Zion's team?

 

[BlueBlood66]

Yeah, and how is that going over with the rest of Zion's team?

They’re surviving.

 

[BBUK]

They’re surviving.

So far...

 

[BlueBlood66]

So far...

The only one it would really affect is RJ and he’s Zion’s number one fan so he’s doing alright.

 

[BBUK]

The only one it would really affect is RJ and he’s Zion’s number one fan so he’s doing alright.

Okay, no worries...

 

[BlueBlood66]

Okay, no worries...

Why the laughing face at the end?

 

[BBUK]

Why the laughing face at the end?

I want you happy...

 

[BlueBlood66]

I want you happy...

Thanks bby

 

[BBUK]

Thanks bby

What is that? A mistype?

 

[Aike]

Too much love and attention for Zion.

Jay tried. That’s all you can ask. Maybe K will still let him sit at the big kids’ table. Right after he cuts up Jon Scheyer’s meat.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Jay tried. That’s all you can ask. Maybe K will still let him sit at the big kids’ table. Right after he cuts up Jon Scheyer’s meat.

Maybe... a Bilas can dream