Barnhart finally says no to whiny Cal

[CowboyGumBoots]

I’m still in the belief that talent wins out more often than not. I’ve coached enough to learn that first hand. I just hope cal can pull enough talent for at least one more run. I still personally don’t care if the players or coaches care about this state and it’s people but it’s a happy bonus if they do. Oscar is one in a million and I will be soaking up every second he’s here. I know my line of thinking is not shared by many people here.

At the end of the day, it’s just ball and I like when the team I follow wins.

Talent does win out, it’s a fact. There’s people on here that would have you believe the last few national champions weren’t talented. Come on now get up on out of here with all that!

I challenge coach K to a game. I‘ll coach an AAU squad and he gets to coach those available from the class of ‘68. We’ll see how much experience and coaching matters against talent

 

[HeelVol]

Talent does win out, it’s a fact. There’s people on here that would have you believe the last few national champions weren’t talented. Come on now get up on out of here with all that!

I challenge coach K to a game. I‘ll coach an AAU squad and he gets to coach those available from the class of ‘68. We’ll see how much experience and coaching matters against talent

Talent doesn't always win out. More often it does but certainly not assured.

Tennessee was not the most talented SEC team. And St Peters wasn't very talented.

Basketball is still a team sport. Playing together is crucial.

UK played together at first but the team seemed to lose focus, forget it's mission, not play together at the end.

And it wasn't for lack of talent nor "relative lack" of luxury housing.

 

[CowboyGumBoots]

Talent doesn't always win out. More often it does but certainly not assured.

Tennessee was not the most talented SEC team. And St Peters wasn't very talented.

Basketball is still a team sport. Playing together is crucial.

UK played together at first but the team seemed to lose focus, forget it's mission, not play together at the end.

And it wasn't for lack of talent nor "relative lack" of luxury housing.

St Peters was a nice story but a team like that is not going to win the national championship. The skill level becomes too much to win six in a row like that. They did play really well together.

You could say it wasn’t for lack of talent, but I’d say if UKs roster had Banchero we wouldn’t have had the same problems that we did.

Just look at Oscar - if he had been on the Vols you wouldn’t call that a difference maker? At the end of the day it is about getting the most talent to the program then getting them to gel. But the talent part comes first

 

[shodaman]

So, who would be responsible for his $50M buyout?

This problem has nothing to do with his salary. It's all about that ridiculous lifetime contract and the even more ridiculous buyout.

Whose going to have to come up with that money if Mitch decides its time for Cal to move on???

i would say Mitch doesn't really have a say if he gets fired

 

[kyjeff1]

I’m still in the belief that talent wins out more often than not. I’ve coached enough to learn that first hand. I just hope cal can pull enough talent for at least one more run. I still personally don’t care if the players or coaches care about this state and it’s people but it’s a happy bonus if they do. Oscar is one in a million and I will be soaking up every second he’s here. I know my line of thinking is not shared by many people here.

At the end of the day, it’s just ball and I like when the team I follow wins.

There are just too many flaws with this one-and-done system.

-you have to get the top end talent, those are the only ones that are ready to play now

-the pieces have to fit

-you have to have strong veteran guys to help the freshmen learn the ropes, learn how to compete every second they're out there

-at least some of them have to be special

-chemistry has to come from somewhere, you don't just develop chemistry out of nothing, with a bunch of Alpha males, in one season

Teams that build from scratch over the years, can develop personnel and chemistry, then they have the option to add a top end 5* to mix in if they want, but it’s so much easier to get a developed, well coached team to make a 6 game run at the end of the season, than it is to get a bunch of freshmen to do it that have never played on that stage.

I still have yet to see a college team win it all without a transcendent or generational player and Cal isn't getting those guys anymore. I think Fox was the last one if you don't count Oscar.

Oscar is in a class all by himself in my opinion. He’s not transcendent/ generational, but he's probably one of the best to ever play the college game if he improves over what he did last year.

But, my final point is, unless Cal starts landing more generational talent, one-and-done is useless here. His offense isn't good/modern enough, he plays favorites and his coaching style is completely outdated. He needs players that can hide his shortcomings.

 

[kyjeff1]

Talent does win out, it’s a fact. There’s people on here that would have you believe the last few national champions weren’t talented. Come on now get up on out of here with all that!

I challenge coach K to a game. I‘ll coach an AAU squad and he gets to coach those available from the class of ‘68. We’ll see how much experience and coaching matters against talent

Nobody said the last few (or any) title winners weren't talented.

Here's the difference, those teams weren't built with a bunch of high flying athletes, no, the talent on those teams was developed over a period of years with 3 and 4 star kids and in Baylor's case, kids that came from small little schools and nobody else wanted them. Their center in 2020 was 6'5". Oh he was talented, but it was the 6" between his ears.

Same can be said for uNC 2017, the two Villanova title teams, UVA and KU, they were all made up with veteran players that were developed over time. They weren't talented when they got to those schools, but they were talented when they left.

Take a look at Virginia's 2019 title team. Seriously, Jack Salt? Kyle Guy? Ty Jerome? You think Cal would win a title with that squad? Hell no, they'd be parked on the bench in the doghouse. But Bennett isn’t in the HOF, Cal is.

 

[kyjeff1]

St Peters was a nice story but a team like that is not going to win the national championship. The skill level becomes too much to win six in a row like that. They did play really well together.

You could say it wasn’t for lack of talent, but I’d say if UKs roster had Banchero we wouldn’t have had the same problems that we did.

Just look at Oscar - if he had been on the Vols you wouldn’t call that a difference maker? At the end of the day it is about getting the most talent to the program then getting them to gel. But the talent part comes first

So wait, 'if we had Banchero'? Jesus, how much talent does Cal need? Why not just add 'Bron and get it over with.

Talent wasn't the problem. Heck, we had a transcendent player sitting on the bench, Cal just never played him.

I'm not sure why you brought up Banchero though, he wasn't an option and Cal had his favorite player at the 4 anyway. He had a better option on the bench (Toppin), but he chose to play his favorite.

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

Kansas Blows ours out of the water according to a Tik Tok video that was posted.

Yeah the barbershop put them over the top lol.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Talent does win out.

The thing is 99% of the time there's many teams that are talented enough to win titles. It's a one of done tournament. Things happen. So while you can pick say 6 to 8 teams and be reasonable confident the title winner is coming from that group, it's hard to know exactly which will ultimately do it.

I'd venture to guess most people had Kansas in a group of 6 to 8 teams that could win the title. I'd venture to guess way less people had them the favorite just by looking at the teams that people picked in their brackets.

So the job is to be in that group, hope you get a good draw and hope you are playing your best basketball in March. That's all.

 

[Rockfly78]

There are just too many flaws with this one-and-done system.

-you have to get the top end talent, those are the only ones that are ready to play now

-the pieces have to fit

-you have to have strong veteran guys to help the freshmen learn the ropes, learn how to compete every second they're out there

-at least some of them have to be special

-chemistry has to come from somewhere, you don't just develop chemistry out of nothing, with a bunch of Alpha males, in one season

Teams that build from scratch over the years, can develop personnel and chemistry, then they have the option to add a top end 5* to mix in if they want, but it’s so much easier to get a developed, well coached team to make a 6 game run at the end of the season, than it is to get a bunch of freshmen to do it that have never played on that stage.

I still have yet to see a college team win it all without a transcendent or generational player and Cal isn't getting those guys anymore. I think Fox was the last one if you don't count Oscar.

Oscar is in a class all by himself in my opinion. He’s not transcendent/ generational, but he's probably one of the best to ever play the college game if he improves over what he did last year.

But, my final point is, unless Cal starts landing more generational talent, one-and-done is useless here. His offense isn't good/modern enough, he plays favorites and his coaching style is completely outdated. He needs players that can hide his shortcomings.

The generational talents are typically one and dones. So how can cal add more generational talent and less one and dones?

 

[STL_Cat]

Can’t tell if satire

Dude has turned into a caricature of himself. Used to be a good level-headed poster, too.

 

[HeelVol]

This year's UK team should be there at the end. Got leadership, talent, role players. Got rid of distraction.

 

[kyjeff1]

The generational talents are typically one and dones. So how can cal add more generational talent and less one and dones?

Huh?
Reread what I said.

Also, I've said this exact quote for many years on here:

"if you’re going to be a one-and-done program, you better get the top shelf/transcendent/generational kids, if not, you're pissing into the wind. There's a difference between AD/Zion/Wall/Fox level 5* kids and dudes like Knox/Boston/Teague/Skal etc… , all are one-and-done 5* kids, but group A comes ready to dominate with size, athleticism and IQ, group B only has length and athletesism, they're projects that won't win shit".

Can you debate any of that?

 

[kyjeff1]

This year's UK team should be there at the end. Got leadership, talent, role players. Got rid of distraction.

While I agree, I have to say this: we say this exact thing every year. It gets old.

Talent has never been the issue, especially after reading about how they never miss in June practices (@HagginHall1999 's write-up is one of the most realistic I've seen, so I'm not lumping him in).

The one person that gives me hope here, is Oscar. He’s a guy that can overcome soooo much, but even some of the most positive posters are cautiously optimistic. We've just been through this too many times to just dive right in with full confidence.

Heck, what if Oscar gets hurt? Can Cal's coaching 0vercome that? I don't think so. He needs a serious amountof weaponry to beat good teams. That’s not me being a hater, it's simply the truth.

 

[dl51344]

Talent does win out, it’s a fact. There’s people on here that would have you believe the last few national champions weren’t talented. Come on now get up on out of here with all that!

I challenge coach K to a game. I‘ll coach an AAU squad and he gets to coach those available from the class of ‘68. We’ll see how much experience and coaching matters against talent

Requires a certain amount of skill and experience too.

 

[Rockfly78]

Huh?
Reread what I said.

Also, I've said this exact quote for many years on here:

"if you’re going to be a one-and-done program, you better get the top shelf/transcendent/generational kids, if not, you're pissing into the wind. There's a difference between AD/Zion/Wall/Fox level 5* kids and dudes like Knox/Boston/Teague/Skal etc… , all are one-and-done 5* kids, but group A comes ready to dominate with size, athleticism and IQ, group B only has length and athletesism, they're projects that won't win shit".

Can you debate any of that?

I skimmed it. I see what you mean. I agree with pretty much all of it. Although I won’t Write Oscar off as a non generational talent just yet. He set records as a junior. We’ll see

 

[HeelVol]

While I agree, I have to say this: we say this exact thing every year. It gets old.

Talent has never been the issue, especially after reading about how they never miss in June practices (@HagginHall1999 's write-up is one of the most realistic I've seen, so I'm not lumping him in).

The one person that gives me hope here, is Oscar. He’s a guy that can overcome soooo much, but even some of the most positive posters are cautiously optimistic. We've just been through this too many times to just dive right in with full confidence.

Heck, what if Oscar gets hurt? Can Cal's coaching 0vercome that? I don't think so. He needs a serious amountof weaponry to beat good teams. That’s not me being a hater, it's simply the truth.

The key players for your team are back and more experienced. Shavir, Toppin, Oscar. They should have the ear and the respect from the new players, especially the returning NPOY.

Culture shouldn't be an issue for you guys (no Sharpe drama)

Wallace and Livingston will be forced to fit into that core group.

Oscar getting hurt is like any prominent player getting hurt...you can't really replace...simply bad fortune and your championship hopes are in the toilet (just like it would be if UNC lost Bacot or Brady goes down for Tampa Bay or Steph goes down for Golden State).

 

[kyjeff1]

I skimmed it. I see what you mean. I agree with pretty much all of it. Although I won’t Write Oscar off as a non generational talent just yet. He set records as a junior. We’ll see

Yeah, Oscar is an anomaly. He’s an A+++ College player, but the NBA doesn’t want him. They'll take an unathletic Tyty Washington and a guy that refused to play, but they didn't want a guy that will get you 15rpg and play at 100% all game long. Just weird.

 

[CowboyGumBoots]

Nobody said the last few (or any) title winners weren't talented.

Here's the difference, those teams weren't built with a bunch of high flying athletes, no, the talent on those teams was developed over a period of years with 3 and 4 star kids and in Baylor's case, kids that came from small little schools and nobody else wanted them. Their centSer in 2020 was 6'5". Oh he was talented, but it was the 6" between his ears.

Same can be said for uNC 2017, the two Villanova title teams, UVA and KU, they were all made up with veteran players that were developed over time. They weren't talented when they got to those schools, but they were talented when they left.

Take a look at Virginia's 2019 title team. Seriously, Jack Salt? Kyle Guy? Ty Jerome? You think Cal would win a title with that squad? Hell no, they'd be parked on the bench in the doghouse. But Bennett isn’t in the HOF, Cal is.

I completely disagree with Villanova and Baylor. Look at the recruiting classes and recruiting rankings in the years prior to their national championship.

Here’s a start: Jalen Brunson was a 5 star and the 4th highest ranked PG in his class. Booth and Bridges were both in the Top 100. Same for Josh Hart and Kris Jenkins.

I just don’t want to hear the “nobody wanted them card” when they were highly touted and talented HS stars. Yes it’s great they stayed multiple years, I’m not arguing that. It sure would be great to have that type of talent stay here multiple seasons.

I do agree with Virginia and I would consider that an anomaly compared to the other title rosters

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Yeah, she complained about UK's dorms, then Tre went to Oklahoma. See the video below.

I don't get it, is that state-of-the -art? I'm seeing two twin beds and some cheap pressed board cabinetry from Wal-Mart in there.

So after watching this video, I'm of the belief that Tre Young's mom is batshit crazy and she just came up with an excuse to get Tre to go elsewhere.

Maybe we should stop relying on what she said?.?.

Watch "D1 Athlete Dorm Tour | Oklahoma Sooners" on YouTube

View embedded media

Yeah Mrs. Young’s mom must he on something good if she thought those dorms are nicer than Kentucky’s.

 

[kyjeff1]

I completely disagree with Villanova and Baylor. Look at the recruiting classes and recruiting rankings in the years prior to their national championship.

Here’s a start: Jalen Brunson was a 5 star and the 4th highest ranked PG in his class. Booth and Bridges were both in the Top 100. Same for Josh Hart and Kris Jenkins.

I just don’t want to hear the “nobody wanted them card” when they were highly touted and talented HS stars. Yes it’s great they stayed multiple years, I’m not arguing that. It sure would be great to have that type of talent stay here multiple seasons.

I do agree with Virginia and I would consider that an anomaly compared to the other title rosters

So you throw out Jalen Brunson, which is fine, he is the guy I had in mind when I said that those schools could easily add a 5* kid into the mix and would have the best of both worlds.

But that's the only dude you have to fit your weak argument.

You tried to throw out top 100 guys, like somehow those guys are equal to one-and-done kids.

Top 100 kids are 3 and 4 year players and are exactly what's being used to win titles these days.

As far as "players nobody wanted", never did I ever say that was the case for every player those teams used to win at the highest levels, but you should read up on guys like Adam Flagler. Kid was an undersized guard at… wait for it… . Presbyterian. They brought him into the program at Baylor and redshirted him. He turned into a stud on their title team and yes, nobody wanted him. Mitchell transferred from Auburn and redshirted a year. Who wanted Matthew Mayer and Mark Vital? Nobody.

What about Jack Salt, Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy? Anybody recruit those guys? Did Cal even know who they were.

Look, you're not going to win this one, especially if you're trying to use top 100 kids to use as your example for how one-and-done works. Those aren't one-and-done kids, those are program guys.

There's just too much proof out there that proves what I am saying is right.

 

[CowboyGumBoots]

So you throw out Jalen Brunson, which is fine, he is the guy I had in mind when I said that those schools could easily add a 5* kid into the mix and would have the best of both worlds.

But that's the only dude you have to fit your weak argument.

You tried to throw out top 100 guys, like somehow those guys are equal to one-and-done kids.

Top 100 kids are 3 and 4 year players and are exactly what's being used to win titles these days.

As far as "players nobody wanted", never did I ever say that was the case for every player those teams used to win at the highest levels, but you should read up on guys like Adam Flagler. Kid was an undersized guard at… wait for it… . Presbyterian. They brought him into the program at Baylor and redshirted him. He turned into a stud on their title team and yes, nobody wanted him. Mitchell transferred from Auburn and redshirted a year. Who wanted Matthew Mayer and Mark Vital? Nobody.

What about Jack Salt, Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy? Anybody recruit those guys? Did Cal even know who they were.

Look, you're not going to win this one, especially if you're trying to use top 100 kids to use as your example for how one-and-done works. Those aren't one-and-done kids, those are program guys.

There's just too much proof out there that proves what I am saying is right.

First of all, the top 100 are considered elite HS prospects. I’m sorry, if you make the top 100 in your class, I’d consider you an elite recruit that’s just all there is to it.

Now, as far as one and done I’ve never said it’s the best way. But it is all about talent. So if you make me choose between 4 yrs of Jack Salt or 1 yr of AD I think I know where I’m going.

Virginia can have that one year, I accept that one national title team out of the past 40 had a bunch of role players and not much else (aside from DeAndre Hunter who has been conveniently left out of the discussion).

 

[Catluv]

Huh?
Reread what I said.

Also, I've said this exact quote for many years on here:

"if you’re going to be a one-and-done program, you better get the top shelf/transcendent/generational kids, if not, you're pissing into the wind. There's a difference between AD/Zion/Wall/Fox level 5* kids and dudes like Knox/Boston/Teague/Skal etc… , all are one-and-done 5* kids, but group A comes ready to dominate with size, athleticism and IQ, group B only has length and athletesism, they're projects that won't win shit".

Can you debate any of that?

Out of the first tier guys you listed only AD won a title. Just shows how hard it is to win. I swear Fox’s team would have won a title if they didn’t get screwed. That year UNC got so many breaks in the tournament. They should have lost to Arky. Their point guard took about 5 steps and didn’t get a walk call.It was it was set up for them to win.

 

[bbncal02]

Out of the first tier guys you listed only AD won a title. Just shows how hard it is to win. I swear Fox’s team would have won a title if they didn’t get screwed. That year UNC got so many breaks in the tournament. They should have lost to Arky. Their point guard took about 5 steps and didn’t get a walk call.It was it was set up for them to win.

Two games in a row with the Striped Bastard will do that. The national media even called out the piss poor officiating TWO GAMES IN A ROW (us and Arky).
Anyone that watched that year knows how tainted that tourney was. It was a gift to Ol Daggum. Just another example of how “pure” the BS is of the Carolina Way.

 

[Ripamaru]

All I'm gonna say is that when Cal is finally gone a lot of people that were wanting him out are likely to regret it. There isn't a line of equal or better coaches out there waiting to be hired. We are more likely to get a Billy G than a 2010 Cal.

 

[kyjeff1]

First of all, the top 100 are considered elite HS prospects. I’m sorry, if you make the top 100 in your class, I’d consider you an elite recruit that’s just all there is to it.

Now, as far as one and done I’ve never said it’s the best way. But it is all about talent. So if you make me choose between 4 yrs of Jack Salt or 1 yr of AD I think I know where I’m going.

Virginia can have that one year, I accept that one national title team out of the past 40 had a bunch of role players and not much else (aside from DeAndre Hunter who has been conveniently left out of the discussion).

Top 100 kids are not elite, that's what needs to be established here.

Here's the deal, the only one and done kids that are capable of winning titles at this level, are top 5, maybe top 7. A kid ranked 60th isn’t carrying a team anywhere in year 1.

The worst kids to get are the ones ranked outside the top 10. They’re long, athletic and they all think they're one-and-done kids.

At schools like Villanova and Baylor, those kids sit until they're ready, at UK, they're in the starting lineup until they prove to Cal they just can't do it (Whitney, Collins, SKJ etc)

You’re trying to have a completely different discussion if you're bringing up top 100 kids. Anything outside the top 20 are 4* kids that are not one and done kids. They’re still elite, but they aren't going to the NBA after 1 or 2 years. Those are the kids we should be getting as long as they understand they're here to develop, not fast track.

Cal is going to have to work hard to change the culture and that’s if he wants to. After the Sharpe fiasco, it looks to me like he doesn't want to.

Look, you can protect Cal all you want on here, but trying to act like the one-and-done culture is working when the proof shows it isn’t, is making my points for me.

You brought up AD, cool, but Cal isn't getting those guys anymore and that’s the point. If you're going to do the one-and-done thing, you better get the best players every year. Top 100 kids aren't winning shit in year 1 and Cal shits on those kids anyway, but go ahead and keep arguing. I'm enjoying this.

 

[kyjeff1]

All I'm gonna say is that when Cal is finally gone a lot of people that were wanting him out are likely to regret it. There isn't a line of equal or better coaches out there waiting to be hired. We are more likely to get a Billy G than a 2010 Cal.

False.
Look at Cal's record since the loss in 2015. Keep in mind, UK has advantages over everybody except for maybe duke. What Cal has done the last 6 years, can easily be accomplished by any average coach, so when you look at it, Cal is only slightly better than BCG was and Cal has ten times the talent.

There are a lot of coaches out there that could come to UK and build a legit program.

I can't wait to be done with this NBA farm system bullshit. What a slap in the face this is.

 

[Tedington68]

You know it’s possible to support Cal’s stance on facilities and still think he needs to change and improve his coaching etc.

Too many are just picking a for Cal side or against Cal side and blinding themselves to the whole picture and other aspects of the program.

A microcosm of today's society. Pick a side and die on that hill, politics, religion, sports.....doesn't matter. It's us against them

 

[UKNothinButNet]

All I'm gonna say is that when Cal is finally gone a lot of people that were wanting him out are likely to regret it. There isn't a line of equal or better coaches out there waiting to be hired. We are more likely to get a Billy G than a 2010 Cal.

Cry me a river... pul-lease. Cal is bigger than the program... Got it. 😳

 

[Myth Buster51]

UK needs state of the art facilities to be ahead of the pack.

This is another epic fail by Barnhardt.

Some would argue that UK needs a head coach who can actually motivate, teach and coach in-game in order to be ahead of the pack. But Barnhart is the one who convinced the Board to give Calipari the ridiculous contract.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

If I am MB I tell Calipari..."Fine, we'll look at upgrading the dorm and other bball facilities when YOU agree to play a decent Home schedule year in and year out."
Of course in the world everyone else lives in Barnhart wouldn't have given away control of the schedule to Calipari and the staff.
But, in the realm of lifetime contracts, it's what we're stuck with.

I'm not arguing that renovating or upgrading the dorm isn't needed. I'm just saying if you're MB you need to negotiate with Calipari. New concept I know but, still...