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Atheism...

I trust my ability to reason because I'm a sentient creature with the ability to reason; no god need figure into it, IMHO.

You believe your way, I'll believe my way.
How do you know you are a sentient creature with the ability to reason? Did you come to that conclusion using your reason? That's circular logic.

On what basis can you trust your reason to come to that conclusion? Without an intelligent creator, you have absolutely NO REASON, epistemically, to trust your reason.

This fact is really at the heart of why atheism is foolish. Materialists think they are so much more intelligent than religious folks who rely on "faith" yet they have a totally blind faith in their logic without any grounds to do so.
 
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So I went down another Youtube rabbit hole...

This evangelist makes a better argument for the claim being made in this thread. (imho)



I don't know anything about this guy (or evangelists in general), but I think it makes that point better than CS Lewis does, no offense to him.

Incidentally, a ran across on fb this Tesla quote (whose jockstrap no scientist today could hold) which illustrates the point I was trying to make.

Instinct is something which transcends knowledge. We have, undoubtedly, certain finer fibers that enable us to perceive truths when logical deduction, or any other willful effort of the brain, is futile.


Source:'My Inventions' in Electrical Experimenter magazine (1919)
Ravi Zacharias, whom I greatly respect, is more of an evidentialist in his apologetic method. My problem with that approach is that you can give the atheists in this thread all the evidence in the world that God exists, the Bible is true, Jesus rose from the dead etc. yet they are going to deny it based upon their presuppositions and the fact that they don't want to believe (and will never want to believe without God opening their hearts to the truth).

The burden of proof does not rest upon the Christian to "prove" the veracity of Scripture. Jesus is Lord whether the non-believer says so or not. Our calling is to share the gospel, answer legitimate questions that seekers (whom God is drawing to Himself) ask us (not to answer foolish questions that are clearly coming from people antagonistic toward the gospel, casting our pearls before swine as Jesus said) and then pray that the Spirit would remove their sinful will to run from God and give them a heart that loves Him.

If we were totally inherently neutral toward God and could evaluate evidence logically, without emotion, then an evidentialist approach would work. But, due to our sinful natures, we will never evaluate evidence without bias. For the believer, I think that Ravi provides amazing support and reasons to trust the Scriptures. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Can we stick with conservative sock pics please? What are you guys trying to do, convert these fine Christian people into degenerate democrats?

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Christianity could have been stopped before it started by simply producing Jesus' body as the foundation of Christianity is based on the Resurrection.

Where did it go and how does someone explain the hundreds of eyewitnesses that saw Jesus after his crucifixion (not just his disciples)?
 
I was sitting here waiting for the familiar ring that brings such unmitigated joy like so many drooling Pavlovian dogs down through the ages. You know what I’m talking about — the UPS man at the doorbell signaling he’s dropping off your prime delivery. Except...it never came.

So I checked email and saw the dreaded “your delivery scheduled for today has been rescheduled” meaning, of course, my Pantherellas aren’t gonna be here until tomorrow :chairshot:. What kind of GDMFBS is this? I mean it’s just this kind of tragedy that makes people lose their faith and turn from the Church.

<—— feeling lost and alone in a cold, heartless universe
 
The theist in this are thread are not helping their cause.. sadly, I don't think they realize it.. Where extraordinary claims are made extraordinary evidence is required. Like others have said at least we live in a country where we can disagree.
 
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Big Bang. Really big. The Hubble Telescope can see a galaxy so far away that it’s light takes 13.4 billion years to get here traveling at over 670 million MPH. Less than 2 yrs ago, we discovered there are 10 times as many galaxies as previously thought. That’s 2 trillion galaxies. Earth formed around 4 billion yrs. ago. Life happened, dinosaurs roamed, and just yesterday, we showed up. Genetically altered apes with just enough intellect to wonder why we’re here and long for another life in a more heavenly place when we die. We have more questions than answers. We argue the unknown.

I get new socks when they wear out.
 
The theist in this are thread are not helping their cause.. sadly, I don't think they realize it.. Where extraordinary claims are made extraordinary evidence is required. Like others have said at least we live in a country where we can disagree.
Claiming that the universe arose from nothing to somehow result in beings capable of considering the universe’s origin is a pretty extraordinary claim that demands an explanation of how it is even logically possible without an intelligent being...not to mention the fact that you are just an evolved animal yet you trust the neurons firing in your head to explain your own origins...foolish.

The only possible explanation is that you deny God’s existence, despite the fact that the evidence is LITERALLY all around you, because you do not want Him to exist. His existence means accountability in place of autonomy. Sincerely pray that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth and He promises you will find it.
 
Claiming that the universe arose from nothing to somehow result in beings capable of considering the universe’s origin is a pretty extraordinary claim that demands an explanation of how it is even logically possible without an intelligent being...not to mention the fact that you are just an evolved animal yet you trust the neurons firing in your head to explain your own origins...foolish.

The only possible explanation is that you deny God’s existence, despite the fact that the evidence is LITERALLY all around you, because you do not want Him to exist. His existence means accountability in place of autonomy. Sincerely pray that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth and He promises you will find it.


Thank you for proving my point, hahaha
 
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Thank you for proving my point, hahaha
Proof? Points? Where do these concepts come from in a meaningless universe that just popped into existence ex nihilo? The atheists have yet to provide an answer for how to ground reason epistemically.

Until you do, you are simply borrowing from the Christian worldview with concepts like proof, evidence, logic and reason.

So thanks for proving my point...you could only do so if there is a God.
 
How do you know you are a sentient creature with the ability to reason? Did you come to that conclusion using your reason? That's circular logic.

On what basis can you trust your reason to come to that conclusion? Without an intelligent creator, you have absolutely NO REASON, epistemically, to trust your reason.

This fact is really at the heart of why atheism is foolish. Materialists think they are so much more intelligent than religious folks who rely on "faith" yet they have a totally blind faith in their logic without any grounds to do so.


“Foolish?” people have been respectful of you. You just sound like a confused douche.
 
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When ink was put to parchment or chisel to stone or however it was first written down, the bible was written by humans. Believers say they were writing the words of God but then say that God gives everyone free will. Which is it? Can't have free will if he's putting words in your mouth.
 
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I would venture to say that most athiests believe the way they do because they don't want to be held accountable for actions.
Or they just hold themselves accountable in life without needing to believe in what your personal belief is. Not everyone needs a 2000+ year old book to tell them to be good people. If you prefer and need the book, that is okay too.
 
The theist in this are thread are not helping their cause.. sadly, I don't think they realize it.. Where extraordinary claims are made extraordinary evidence is required. Like others have said at least we live in a country where we can disagree.

I could go on and on for days on how wrong you are here, but suffice it to say the extraordinary claim proposed by scientific materialists (that the universe arose from nothing, a random fluctuation of the quantum field which necessitates a many worlds interpretation in which there are infinite universes without finely tuned physics) is so improbable that it is must be discarded.

They are taking advantage of the public's lack of understanding of fundamental maths and statistics; the fact that you have to pause for a second when I tell you that on average human beings only have one testicle. They are abusing your ignorance.
 
Fiance and myself got a place a few weeks ago; she asks me one evening if I could go through my sock drawers and downsize. Bear in mind this was my bedroom furniture we placed in our master bedroom. Told her sure, I'd take a look, since she said I had 3 drawers of socks.
I downsized to two drawers, as I had 4,862 pairs, or thereabouts, of white socks, and 22,316, again, thereabouts,pairs of assorted dress socks. The next night she approaches me and says "did you know you had another big drawer of white socks"? (I didn't) So, I go through them all and toss nearly all of them, as they were unneeded. I'm now down to a dozen pairs of whites, and @ 2 dozen assorted dress socks. ( I was a bachelor for a long time and just never threw out socks I suppose) As I said.....I'm pro sock.

Thanks to the Christians who replied to my last post. We will never agree but I respect your right to your belief system. We've had hundreds of these type of threads before, and while I find them most interesting, all the pertinent points have been hashed over again and again.

Peace, WW.
 
So, I will conclude my comments on this thread by pointing out that nobody has answered the original post...HOW DO YOU GROUND YOUR REASONING WITHOUT GOD? You trust your logic, you trust your reason to conclude there is no God, but in a materialistic, random, meaningless world full of evolved animals with firing synapses why do you trust your that randomly evolved brain to correctly interpret the world or the existence of God?

The reason you can think logically, understand this world, communicate and debate is because an Intelligent God created you to be able to do so. He created you for relationship with Him. He came and lived the perfect life that you could never live, earning Heaven for you that you could never earn. Though innocent, He suffered the wrath of the Father that you deserve to suffer, and He rose again so that you can live forever with Him. You simply have to trust Jesus. Trust Him more than you trust yourself. He is trustworthy.

Place your faith in Christ...not in your reasoning, your logic, or your minuscule understanding of this universe. Jesus will save you, and you will have an understanding of this universe, and your purpose that you've never had before.

God bless y'all.
 
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So, I will conclude my comments on this thread by pointing out that nobody has answered the original post...HOW DO YOU GROUND YOUR REASONING WITHOUT GOD? You trust your logic, you trust your reason to conclude there is no God, but in a materialistic, random, meaningless world full of evolved animals with firing synapses why do you trust your that randomly evolved brain to correctly interpret the world or the existence of God?

The reason you can think logically, understand this world, communicate and debate is because an Intelligent God created you to be able to do so. He created you for relationship with Him. He came and lived the perfect life that you could never live, earning Heaven for you that you could never earn. Though innocent, He suffered the wrath of the Father that you deserve to suffer, and He rose again so that you can live forever with Him. You simply have to trust Jesus. Trust Him more than you trust yourself. He is trustworthy.

Place your faith in Christ...not in your reasoning, your logic, or your minuscule understanding of this universe. Jesus will save you, and you will have an understanding of this universe, and your purpose that you've never had before.

God bless y'all.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BhAB&usg=AOvVaw3sv5ghapxr2J0DQdSj-_8H&ampcf=1
https://www.richarddawkins.net/2013/09/a-refute-to-morality-from-god/
 
So, I will conclude my comments on this thread by pointing out that nobody has answered the original post...HOW DO YOU GROUND YOUR REASONING WITHOUT GOD? You trust your logic, you trust your reason to conclude there is no God, but in a materialistic, random, meaningless world full of evolved animals with firing synapses why do you trust your that randomly evolved brain to correctly interpret the world or the existence of God?

The reason you can think logically, understand this world, communicate and debate is because an Intelligent God created you to be able to do so. He created you for relationship with Him. He came and lived the perfect life that you could never live, earning Heaven for you that you could never earn. Though innocent, He suffered the wrath of the Father that you deserve to suffer, and He rose again so that you can live forever with Him. You simply have to trust Jesus. Trust Him more than you trust yourself. He is trustworthy.

Place your faith in Christ...not in your reasoning, your logic, or your minuscule understanding of this universe. Jesus will save you, and you will have an understanding of this universe, and your purpose that you've never had before.

God bless y'all.
I love that you think this question you’ve come up with is some game changing, drop the mic moment. I “ground my reasoning” (what the touch are you even saying) through things I’ve learned and life experiences. I don’t need a God to know that 2+2=4, if you do that’s fine.

What happens, in your opinion, to people who feel as strongly as you do in Islam or whatever when they die?
 
When ink was put to parchment or chisel to stone or however it was first written down, the bible was written by humans. Believers say they were writing the words of God but then say that God gives everyone free will. Which is it? Can't have free will if he's putting words in your mouth.
I wonder if people today are influenced to write about anything other than themselves. No that never happens.
 
“True knowledge exists in knowing you know nothing”.

Socrates, the sockless philosopher.
 
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