AP Preseason AA Team

[MWes11]

Kyle Wiltjer of Gonzaga
Georges Niang of Iowa State
Buddy Hield of Oklahoma
Kris Dunn of Providence
Ben Simmons of LSU

Any surprises for you? Somewhat surprised that Marcus Paige isn't on the list, even with the broken wrist. I don't put much stock in to these preseason polls. Can't remember if they do a preseason AA 2nd/3rd team, but I will be surprised if Ulis/Skal/Murray aren't on that list.

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/wiltjer-top-vote-getter-ap-preseason-all-america-team

 

[WildMoon]

I see bunch of team that won't do shit in NCAA tourney...

 

[ThroughBlue]

The Wiltjer love continues. Should have been name the preseason all offensive team

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

This season is starting out with no clear-cut best team, and no real can't-miss superstars. I really don't get Wiltjer being that highly rated, although of course I am happy for the kid. I'm sure there are plenty of much better players this year. Replace Wiltjer with Murray on Gonzaga's team and Murray would average at least 20.

 

[ThroughBlue]

plus play a little defense while he is at it

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

No Kentucky players? I guess we'll just have to win the title then to prove it to them.

 

[1991greywildcat]

There's not really one player on that list I would take over uks team, niang is a really nice player, I think ulis is better than Dunn, Murray would kill hield on the court...skal will probably end up being the best big in the country...

 

[gossie21]

There's not really one player on that list I would take over uks team, niang is a really nice player, I think ulis is better than Dunn, Murray would kill hield on the court...skal will probably end up being the best big in the country...

You couldn't find a place for Ben Simmons? I am all for supporting our team, but really?

 

[Tampa_cat54]

There's not really one player on that list I would take over uks team, niang is a really nice player, I think ulis is better than Dunn, Murray would kill hield on the court...skal will probably end up being the best big in the country...

Simmons, Hield, and Dunn would all start at UK right now.

Hield and Dunn would BOTH easily start over Briscoe (EASILY) if either one of them were on our team, and Simmons would 100% be our starting 4 man.

Come on now.

 

[sefus12]

And the irrational Wiltjer hate/dislike continues for absolutely no reason at all.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

And the irrational Wiltjer hate/dislike continues for absolutely no reason at all.

Reaching a bit aren't you? Didn't see any hate at all, or even dislike. It isn't debatable that Kyle was a liability on defense at UK is it?

 

[RondoBaller21]

This season is starting out with no clear-cut best team, and no real can't-miss superstars. I really don't get Wiltjer being that highly rated, although of course I am happy for the kid. I'm sure there are plenty of much better players this year. Replace Wiltjer with Murray on Gonzaga's team and Murray would average at least 20.

Hell Murray will average 20 ppg for UK this season. Skal and Murray are for sure can't miss prospects.

 

[1991greywildcat]

Simmons would start alongside skal obviously and that would be a scary frontcourt, I respect the guys on the list and know how good they are...all I'm saying is I would not trade anyone on that list for UKs current player..

 

[king of cali]

There's not really one player on that list I would take over uks team, niang is a really nice player, I think ulis is better than Dunn, Murray would kill hield on the court...skal will probably end up being the best big in the country...

Come on man, Dunn average 15, 5 and 7 last year. It's cool to be a homer, but let's not be irrational.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Simmons would start alongside skal obviously and that would be a scary frontcourt, I respect the guys on the list and know how good they are...all I'm saying is I would not trade anyone on that list for UKs current player..

You wouldn't trade Briscoe for Dunn or Hield, straight up?

 

[bigc45157]

Would anyone trade Dunn for Ullis?

Or Heild for Murray?

 

[wcc31]

There isn't a coach in CBB who wouldn't take Murray or Skal over any of those guys besides Simmons. True story.

 

[UK_Johnny24]

Other than Simmons I don't see a player on that list better than Skal, Murray, or Ulis. Wiltjer's prolly gonna average close to 20 a game this year, but I mean he;s far from one of the best players in the country. Gonzaga's gonna be good btw.

 

[mj2k10]

And the irrational Wiltjer hate/dislike continues for absolutely no reason at all.

Some of it is irrational.

But honestly, would you want him as a starter on this UK team? Because really, in the long run, isn't the question of the value of any individual player simply the question of whether your team would be better with him on it? And can you really answer that question with a definitive "yes" in the case of Wiltjer? I know I can't. I can't see any way that there aren't at least 20 guys I'd want on my team before him. I'd probably rather have Domantas Sabonis off that Gonzaga team. I see nothing irrational about that at all- if I want to win games, and not just put up attention-getting point totals.

Beyond that, Wiltjer is a good example of how All-American acclaim has basically become a relic, especially preseason All-American acclaim. The whole point of picking All-American teams was to spotlight the best players in the country. And honestly, it used to do a pretty good job of that. You'd always have guys who were underexposed and under-appreciated, but there was a real effort to pick the very best guys. Now, because the very best guys usually haven't played a single college game until the season actually starts, picking them is damn near impossible, and the media falls back on tropes that are outdated and irrelevant. Meaning they pick the returning guys with the big numbers, when a ton of evidence points to the fact that, in reality, those usually aren't the actual best players.

Give me Skal, Murray, Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, and Malik Newman. You take any other 5 players. Wiltjer, Dunn, Trimble, whoever you want. I like my chances in that game.

 

[Jazzycat]

A big fan of Simmons here. He is an amazing player! LSU is blessed to have him.

I do really love the freshmen guys for UK, however, and see the makings of a dynamic team for the Cats. Not worried one bit about AA candidates at this point. Just hoping this young group of Cats can mesh and become an outstanding team in February and March.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I'm shocked they didn't find a way to put Brandon Ingram on that list.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

What would those guys on loaded teams like ours stats be when their are mouths to feed? Their stats would be considerably lower than being "the man" on their team taking the most shots/ playing time/ handling the ball etc.

Some food for thought.

 

[irishcat1965]

Well the good thing is none of those All Americans are on the same team. So I think UK's roster is just fine.

 

[Jazzycat]

Happy for Wiltjer. He is a perfect fit for Gonzaga and Gonzaga is the perfect place for him.

 

[ThroughBlue]

And the irrational Wiltjer hate/dislike continues for absolutely no reason at all.

Where is this "hate" that you speak of

 

[kyjeff1]

And the irrational Wiltjer hate/dislike continues for absolutely no reason at all.

Nobody is hating on KW. What you are seeing is people being honest. KW is simply a spot up shooter, that's pretty much what he does. He can dominate teams in the conference they play in because there isn't much talent there but he is far from an AA.
I'm still scratching my head at the praise he gets. I wish nothing but the best for him but in truth he's simply a spot up shooter. That is all.

 

[MWes11]

Kris Dunn is a very, very good PG. Probably the best PG talent in the country. He will be the first PG taken in next year's draft. I am not considering Murray a PG only because he will be playing SG/SF on this years team. That is taking nothing away from Ulis. He is right there behind Dunn when it comes to college talent.

 

[bthaunert]

All you need to do is look at All American teams year after year these days and realize just how bad college basketball has become.

 

[kyjeff1]

Kris Dunn is a very, very good PG. Probably the best PG talent in the country. He will be the first PG taken in next year's draft. I am not considering Murray a PG only because he will be playing SG/SF on this years team. That is taking nothing away from Ulis. He is right there behind Dunn when it comes to college talent.

I agree, Dunn is the best pg in the country and that doesn't mean Tyler couldn't pass him by this season but just because Dunn plays for Providence doesn't mean he sucks. Too many on this board discount non-UK players because they play for lower tiered teams. Sometimes you have to tune in when UK isn't playing to see what's going on. It helps.

 

[.S&C.]

And the irrational Wiltjer hate/dislike continues for absolutely no reason at all.

I don't hate him at all, but his defensive/overall game should never allow him to be a first team AA.

Do you disagree or are you here to make shit up and appear to "be the bigger man".

 

[sefus12]

I don't hate him at all, but his defensive/overall game should never allow him to be a first team AA.

Do you disagree or are you here to make shit up and appear to "be the bigger man".

I think what he did as an offensive player last year warrants being a college AA, especially pre-season when voters tend to go more on what they players did last year. We all know Wiltjer isn't a great defender, but we also know that awards like pre-season AA are geared toward offensive players. And Wiltjer, despite being in a weak conference, put up fantastic offensive numbers last year. Him being on this list doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

All you need to do is look at All American teams year after year these days and realize just how bad college basketball has become.

yup,when you get in the years past Fred bam fleets and Marcus Paige's on your teams,your hurting. The kicker for me was when Harrison Barnes was chosen as preseason player of the year his fr year

 

[kyjeff1]

I think what he did as an offensive player last year warrants being a college AA, especially pre-season when voters tend to go more on what they players did last year. We all know Wiltjer isn't a great defender, but we also know that awards like pre-season AA are geared toward offensive players. And Wiltjer, despite being in a weak conference, put up fantastic offensive numbers last year. Him being on this list doesn't bother me one bit.

You are all over the place with this post.
"Despite being in a weaker conference put up fantastic offensive numbers last year". This makes no sense. It would make sense if he put up good offensive numbers against a good/great conference. You actually made a point that goes against your agenda.
Then you said "we also know that awards like pre-season AA are geared toward offensive players". We do? I never knew that. I thought AA awards went towards the players that are thought to make the biggest impact in cbb. To me those are players that are good to great at all facets of the game.

So let me ask you this. Would you take KW over Murray? Over Tyler Ulis? Over Marcus Paige? Over Diallo? Over Skal? I know I wouldn't. If I wanted to I can list at least 20 players I would take before I even started to think about taking KW. He's a one dimensional player. He can shoot the ball, no doubt about that but he can't defend, he can't move laterally, can't create his own shot and at 6'10" he can't rebound very well for his size. Can you debate any of that? I don't think you can. That's just too many deficiencies to be thought of as an AA.

 

[sefus12]

You are all over the place with this post.
"Despite being in a weaker conference put up fantastic offensive numbers last year". This makes no sense. It would make sense if he put up good offensive numbers against a good/great conference. You actually made a point that goes against your agenda.
Then you said "we also know that awards like pre-season AA are geared toward offensive players". We do? I never knew that. I thought AA awards went towards the players that are thought to make the biggest impact in cbb. To me those are players that are good to great at all facets of the game.

So let me ask you this. Would you take KW over Murray? Over Tyler Ulis? Over Marcus Paige? Over Diallo? Over Skal? I know I wouldn't. If I wanted to I can list at least 20 players I would take before I even started to think about taking KW. He's a one dimensional player. He can shoot the ball, no doubt about that but he can't defend, he can't move laterally, can't create his own shot and at 6'10" he can't rebound very well for his size. Can you debate any of that? I don't think you can. That's just too many deficiencies to be thought of as an AA.

No, I wouldn't pick KW over Murray if I were drafting a team right now, but KW was the best player on a team that lost to the eventual national champion in the Elite 8 while averaging 16.8 pts, 6.2 rebounds, 54% FG, and 47% 3FG on the year, and upping that to 17.8 pts, 7.5 rebounds, 57% FG, and 42% 3FG in the tourney (with three P5 opponents mixed in). By no means is KW a top-10 pick, but as a COLLEGE (not pro-potential) pre-season AA, I have no issue throwing him on that list.

So how again am I all over the place? The guy is a proven offensive weapon on an Elite-8 team heading into his SR year after being a consensus 2nd Team AA (with the entire 1st Team being drafted) after his junior year. IN MY OPINION, the All-American teams aren't about draft potential and weigh offense more than defense, and because of this KW being named a pre-season AA doesn't bother me. Would I trade Murray or Ulis or Skal for him? Not at all. Am I upset he's on that list. Not at all either.

 

[bthaunert]

You are all over the place with this post.
"Despite being in a weaker conference put up fantastic offensive numbers last year". This makes no sense. It would make sense if he put up good offensive numbers against a good/great conference. You actually made a point that goes against your agenda.
Then you said "we also know that awards like pre-season AA are geared toward offensive players". We do? I never knew that. I thought AA awards went towards the players that are thought to make the biggest impact in cbb. To me those are players that are good to great at all facets of the game.

So let me ask you this. Would you take KW over Murray? Over Tyler Ulis? Over Marcus Paige? Over Diallo? Over Skal? I know I wouldn't. If I wanted to I can list at least 20 players I would take before I even started to think about taking KW. He's a one dimensional player. He can shoot the ball, no doubt about that but he can't defend, he can't move laterally, can't create his own shot and at 6'10" he can't rebound very well for his size. Can you debate any of that? I don't think you can. That's just too many deficiencies to be thought of as an AA.

Just a few thoughts:

1. It's very rare that a guy is preseason AA without the expectation of putting up big offensive numbers. There are exceptions, but offensive production is usually how players are voted.
2. Preseason AA votes have almost always been about a players perceived success against their schedule for that specific team they play on. It's never been about who is the most talented in college basketball. That will never change.
3. No one is arguing that if you were starting a team that you would take KW over a player like Murray or Skal. People agree that head-to-head, those guys are better players. But again, that's never been how AA teams work.

Based on year after year and the history of AA teams, I have no problem with KW being on there.

 

[GOING FOR #9]

Poythress will be a much more complete player than wiltjer this season. Skal will be overall number 1 draft choice. Murray an unstoppable beast and Ulis well he has the potential to be the top pg in the nation. We will see at the end I don't think this preseason AA team will pan out

 

[kyjeff1]

No, I wouldn't pick KW over Murray if I were drafting a team right now, but KW was the best player on a team that lost to the eventual national champion in the Elite 8 while averaging 16.8 pts, 6.2 rebounds, 54% FG, and 47% 3FG on the year, and upping that to 17.8 pts, 7.5 rebounds, 57% FG, and 42% 3FG in the tourney (with three P5 opponents mixed in). By no means is KW a top-10 pick, but as a COLLEGE (not pro-potential) pre-season AA, I have no issue throwing him on that list.

So how again am I all over the place? The guy is a proven offensive weapon on an Elite-8 team heading into his SR year after being a consensus 2nd Team AA (with the entire 1st Team being drafted) after his junior year. IN MY OPINION, the All-American teams aren't about draft potential and weigh offense more than defense, and because of this KW being named a pre-season AA doesn't bother me. Would I trade Murray or Ulis or Skal for him? Not at all. Am I upset he's on that list. Not at all either.

Who does Gonzaga play? Who did they beat last year? They played a bunch of Portland State type teams last year. I'm 5'10" and 42 years old and I think I would fare pretty well against that competition. Is KW going to shoot 47% and rack up 18 points playing against guys like Poythress or Trey Lyles? He had guys like Corbin Kaufusi from BYU guarding him last year. Hardly the same. I'd give you more names but the teams in their conference are so bad that they don't even list their rosters in any of the publications I have. That's a sign of a terrible conference.

Also, KW was not the best player on that Gonzaga team last year. I would take Pangos and Sabonis LOOOONG before I would take KW.
So you're hanging your hat on the fact that Gonzaga lost to the eventual national champion in the E8? So what should I pick someone off Michigan State's roster and make him a pre season AA simply because they lost to duke in the FF last year? Denzel Valentine, COME ON DOWWWWWN, you're an All American, great job beating bad teams on your way to getting donkey punched by Duke in the FF.

So please link where the criteria for qualifying as a pre season AA is mostly based on offensive skill because if you give up as many points as you score you're not really helping your team.

 

[ymmot31]

I think what he did as an offensive player last year warrants being a college AA, especially pre-season when voters tend to go more on what they players did last year. We all know Wiltjer isn't a great defender, but we also know that awards like pre-season AA are geared toward offensive players. And Wiltjer, despite being in a weak conference, put up fantastic offensive numbers last year. Him being on this list doesn't bother me one bit.

Is it better to average 20ppg and have 18ppg game scored on you because you can't defend. Or is it better to average 12ppg and limit the guy you're guarding to 8?

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

Ulis, Murray and Skal could all easily be on that list.
That's Kool though...

 

[bthaunert]

Who does Gonzaga play? Who did they beat last year? They played a bunch of Portland State type teams last year. I'm 5'10" and 42 years old and I think I would fare pretty well against that competition. Is KW going to shoot 47% and rack up 18 points playing against guys like Poythress or Trey Lyles? He had guys like Corbin Kaufusi from BYU guarding him last year. Hardly the same. I'd give you more names but the teams in their conference are so bad that they don't even list their rosters in any of the publications I have. That's a sign of a terrible conference.

Also, KW was not the best player on that Gonzaga team last year. I would take Pangos and Sabonis LOOOONG before I would take KW.
So you're hanging your hat on the fact that Gonzaga lost to the eventual national champion in the E8? So what should I pick someone off Michigan State's roster and make him a pre season AA simply because they lost to duke in the FF last year? Denzel Valentine, COME ON DOWWWWWN, you're an All American, great job beating bad teams on your way to getting donkey punched by Duke in the FF.

So please link where the criteria for qualifying as a pre season AA is mostly based on offensive skill because if you give up as many points as you score you're not really helping your team.

I don't think anyone here is saying they agree with how they select guys for AA. All we are saying is based on years and years of these teams being picked, offense almost always counts more than defense. It's just the way it has been. Based on how these players are picked year after year and baed on him being 2nd Team AA at the end of the season last year, it's not a surprise he is 1st Team AA. Based on years of this team being picked and how they have picked it, some of us don't have a problem with KW being there.