And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars...
- Thread starter Brushy Bill
- Start date
I'm not impressed by the NT writers who cherry picked OT verses and then wrote fulfillments decades after Jesus supposedly lived, among other problems.
This preacher was driving to a wedding and came up behind a drunk slowly weaving down the road. When he gets a chance to pass, he does, but he's worried and looking back 'til he rolled his car down an embankment. As he climbed from the wreckage, he heard the drunk holler "you ok?" and he said "yes, brother, the Lord was with me". The drunk said "well, you better let him ride with me; you're gonna get him killed!"
science is a way of thinking. Faith is a way of not thinking about it anymore. Science puts itself on trial and makes conclusions. Faith assumes the order of things after the fact. The faithful pick and choose too. Other than the snake handlers I don't see a lot of take it to the limit faith holders. And - for what it's worth - I'm not sure being faithful is a compliment to them. But it may be the best they have. Faith hasn't provided cures for diseases, medicines for chronic conditions, ways of growing food that save the earth and feed growing populations, put men in space and brought them home safely again.
Now there are people of faith who have done many great things for a great many people. But it wasn't faith that showed them penicillin - it was science.
When it comes to the school debate I've always wanted to hear how it is you "teach" faith. I know how you teach science. I know why you teach science. I know science isn't an end in itself. I don't understand that to be the case with faith. It's its own reward.
Now there are people of faith who have done many great things for a great many people. But it wasn't faith that showed them penicillin - it was science.
When it comes to the school debate I've always wanted to hear how it is you "teach" faith. I know how you teach science. I know why you teach science. I know science isn't an end in itself. I don't understand that to be the case with faith. It's its own reward.
Not how it went down, unless your not versed in the historical accuracy of the Bible.
flatearthbiblestudy.com?
For the unbeliever, it would seem pretty obvious there has to be a God that created all living things. Nothing else makes any sense. After that, the Bible has to be viewed as both a spiritual book, but also a eyewitness historical account, from different writers, but central themes. And of course, nobody knows where the body is. Science hasn't disproved any of this, as hard as some may try.
On a personal note, I've been a Christian for 35 years, and I have no doubts at all.
Catholics, the first well organized Christian group believes in purgatory. You find virtually no protestants who believe in purgatory. As I said before, anybody who believes they are absolutely right about anything involving the beginning of time or about Heaven are being foolish.
Just as those who lean and lean and lean and lean on "science" to prove CO2 is what causes global warming. The same genius scientists proclaimed a global cooling crisis in the late 70's. I'm not a global warming denier. I think the earth is getting warmer and I think it's a good idea to cut our carbon footprint. But I also think it's foolish to blame humans alone for global warming.
The absolutism of the day that seems to be ruling all thought is simply stupid. Trump is good, trump is awful. Hillary is a crook. Hilliary is great. What happened to taking a rational look at things and coming to an understanding?
Just as those who lean and lean and lean and lean on "science" to prove CO2 is what causes global warming. The same genius scientists proclaimed a global cooling crisis in the late 70's. I'm not a global warming denier. I think the earth is getting warmer and I think it's a good idea to cut our carbon footprint. But I also think it's foolish to blame humans alone for global warming.
The absolutism of the day that seems to be ruling all thought is simply stupid. Trump is good, trump is awful. Hillary is a crook. Hilliary is great. What happened to taking a rational look at things and coming to an understanding?
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
So, we know from hieroglyphic texts that the ancient Egyptians believed (were told) that their Pharaoh was an earthly deity. They were in human form of flesh and blood. But related to supreme beings that lived in the sky. When the Pharaohs died they were wrapped in cloth, placed in a tomb, and the tombs were sealed with giant slabs of stone. We now know these as mummies from The Valley Of The Kings. The Egyptians further believed that the pharaoh was then resurrected and went into the sky to be with the heavenly gods, specifically the sun god, Ra. Sound familiar yet?
We know that Jews were held captive in Egypt. Along comes Moses who leads the Jews out of Egypt and back to The Holy Land. So, the Jews knew all about the stories of earthly deities and bodies wrapped in cloth and sealed tombs and resurrection. We know that Jesus was a Jew. Could the story of Jesus death and resurrection have been borrowed/plagiarized?
Fast forward after Jesus' death and we find new Judeo-Christians being held as slaves in the Roman empire. They begin telling their captors that god will get vengeance for having previously desecrating the temple in Jerusalem, and for holding Christians captive. They say there will be fire and brimstone. Sure enough, Mount Vesuvius erupts in 79 AD and wipes out Pompeii. The Romans believe the stories of god's vengeance and adopt Christian ideals. Next thing you know the Roman empire has spread it's territory, and it's beliefs across all of Europe and part of the middle east.
We know that Jews were held captive in Egypt. Along comes Moses who leads the Jews out of Egypt and back to The Holy Land. So, the Jews knew all about the stories of earthly deities and bodies wrapped in cloth and sealed tombs and resurrection. We know that Jesus was a Jew. Could the story of Jesus death and resurrection have been borrowed/plagiarized?
Fast forward after Jesus' death and we find new Judeo-Christians being held as slaves in the Roman empire. They begin telling their captors that god will get vengeance for having previously desecrating the temple in Jerusalem, and for holding Christians captive. They say there will be fire and brimstone. Sure enough, Mount Vesuvius erupts in 79 AD and wipes out Pompeii. The Romans believe the stories of god's vengeance and adopt Christian ideals. Next thing you know the Roman empire has spread it's territory, and it's beliefs across all of Europe and part of the middle east.
Ever since i moved to Islam, life has gotten so much better. Beat gays, beat women, be racist. All the good stuff. Definitely worth leaving Satanism. Wasn't getting any perks with Lucifer
Humans are still too ignorant to provide complete answers to all the big questions that believers insist on immediately resolving with mythology.
As for eyewitnesses, the gospels were written by unknown authors based on passed down and embellished oral tradition decades after the Jesus character was said to have died. Paul wasn't an eyewitness unless his claimed hallucination counts. About half of Paul's epistles and many other NT books are forgeries written by unknown frauds, while others are incorrectly attributed.
Of course you don't have to accept the consensus of critical Bible scholars and historians. There's plenty of deluded and/or dishonest theologians who will prop up your faith with the narrative you want to hear.
And there are plenty of deluded or dishonest deniers who will prop up your thought process. You fall into one of the "absolutist" that are foolish. The absolutists who think the world was created in 7 days are no different than you who believes in something that isn't disproven.
of course, it's easy for you to deny something didn't happen when you know absolutely nobody can prove it happened.
Person A. "we landed on the moon"
Person B. "No we didn't"
Person A - "Everybody knows this happened"
Person B - "Were you there?"
It's a tried and true method of arguing with somebody.
People can deny that Christ was the son of god. I get that. But to deny his existence goes against just about every bit of recorded history. Might as well deny the civil war never happened.
I haven't denied that a mortal man named Jesus existed, although I'm not convinced he did. The consensus among critical Bible scholars currently is that he probably did, but the evidence isn't nearly as strong as your average believer thinks. LMAO, it's not even close to the evidence of the Civil War. The mythicist case is very compelling and long held positions are hard to change. I really don't care, but it is interesting.
Just spent some time reading this by a theoretical physicist (discussing Cosmic Inflation vs Big Bang)
https://profmattstrassler.com/2014/03/21/did-the-universe-begin-with-a-singularity/
Just one paragraph pulled out:
"Now that was where things stood before inflation was known. Inflation changes the details of the history of the universe quite a lot. But it doesn’t change the basic conclusion about singularities: we don’t and can’t yet know what happened at the earliest moments of the universe, because we have neither data nor sufficiently clear equations to help us answer basic questions about it. Related to this, we don’t know precisely how inflation started (or even could have started) in the first place.".
Real scientists admit these gaps in knowledge. Paddock "scientists" - never. It is settled science for them.
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Good grief, no they are not.
No they are not.
Your lying about a consensus.
WTF are you talking about? I don't need the Big Bang or even Evolution to reject all of the gods I've ever heard of, especially yours. The best evidence against gods are their own holy books.
Science doesn't know everything and yes it is subject to correction. That's what it's all about.
![[pfftt]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682173.gif "Pfffttt [pfftt]")
And the pork thing fits your vegan lifestyle!!
Tell me, imam Willy, what is the Muslim take on heavy metal music and marijuana?
Asking for a friend.
The leader singer of System of a Down looks muslimy. It's probably ok.
Just because science hasn't proved it yet, doesn't mean it wont. That's the fallacy of believers, they act as if all the knowledge we have is all there is. For instance when someone got on here on time and said something about he knows there's a God bc his family member had some illness or something, they prayed about it and then the doctor couldn't explain how they got better. Just bc they got better and the doctor couldn't explain it has nothing to do with God..we just don't have the knowledge yet. Doctors may know why that happened with that particular illness in 50 years. We are constantly learning more, naturally, over time about things, and unfortunately that keeps knocking pillars out of religion as it keeps giving actual explanations of things.
I'm sure a thousand years ago when farmers prayed for rain and it did they thought it was God...well, we know what causes rain now. I mean that's pretty generic example, but I think people probably thought alot of things...i mean the discovery of protons or hell, elements like carbon pretty much explained what's going on with a lot of things.
The problem with bible accounts is everything has to be viewed with consideration that it's from how someone perceived the world around them and from what they knew at that time. They could onky make sense of what was directly in front of them. Even Like today, someone who lives in Pikeville views the world different from someone in Brooklyn and they will interpret things differently. I mean even in biblical times there were thriving civilizations in south america with no Christian God...im curious why God failed to mention this and decided I'll just focus on the middle east.
Just wanted to clarify something if I may.
As I said before, and in many, many other religious posts over the years, I was raised in a Christian home. I RESPECT anyone who believes there is a god, that Jesus was his son, died for us, etc. I simply do not possess the ability to take things like this based on "faith" alone, but I know most believers do, and that's cool.
I try not to mock the believers because, while i reject what they believe, I can also respect them FOR believing, even if I find it incredibly far fetched. As another posted stated above: so many of us everywhere, and from all walks of life, fall into "absolute" category, and cannot, and most often will not, entertain the thought they, and their beliefs might be wrong.
This leads us to the inevitable: bickering, fighting among each other, and fanatics who want to destroy anyone who doesn't fall into line with what they believe is the truth. None of us know FOR SURE how the universe began, and science may never figure it out, bit that's OK, because science is the search for truth, so let them search. Let the believers believe; we should be capable of having a rational discussion about this topic, or for that matter any topic, without mocking those who believe differently than we do.
That said.....I read, several years ago, (can't recall where, and I'm not going to try to find it tonight. Been a long day, and then I had to come home and mow 3 acres.Sitting here eating "dinner" before hitting the sack), that there exists at least three accounts, PRIOR to Jesus' birth, of "virgin births". When I read things like that you can't help but wonder if THAT story wasn't borrowed by the people who wrote the account of Jesus.
I'm not a biblical scholar, and do not wish to be; what I have to go on is 18 years of probably hundreds of Baptist preachers' sermons.
I'll hang up and listen now, and try to finish this crappy "dinner".
Peace, WW.
As I said before, and in many, many other religious posts over the years, I was raised in a Christian home. I RESPECT anyone who believes there is a god, that Jesus was his son, died for us, etc. I simply do not possess the ability to take things like this based on "faith" alone, but I know most believers do, and that's cool.
I try not to mock the believers because, while i reject what they believe, I can also respect them FOR believing, even if I find it incredibly far fetched. As another posted stated above: so many of us everywhere, and from all walks of life, fall into "absolute" category, and cannot, and most often will not, entertain the thought they, and their beliefs might be wrong.
This leads us to the inevitable: bickering, fighting among each other, and fanatics who want to destroy anyone who doesn't fall into line with what they believe is the truth. None of us know FOR SURE how the universe began, and science may never figure it out, bit that's OK, because science is the search for truth, so let them search. Let the believers believe; we should be capable of having a rational discussion about this topic, or for that matter any topic, without mocking those who believe differently than we do.
That said.....I read, several years ago, (can't recall where, and I'm not going to try to find it tonight. Been a long day, and then I had to come home and mow 3 acres.Sitting here eating "dinner" before hitting the sack), that there exists at least three accounts, PRIOR to Jesus' birth, of "virgin births". When I read things like that you can't help but wonder if THAT story wasn't borrowed by the people who wrote the account of Jesus.
I'm not a biblical scholar, and do not wish to be; what I have to go on is 18 years of probably hundreds of Baptist preachers' sermons.
I'll hang up and listen now, and try to finish this crappy "dinner".
Peace, WW.
Totally acceptable if you're planning jihad.
I kinda lost my religion, along with my innocence, as a teenager. Maybe I'm on the fence, so to speak. My own beliefs, statements and actions contradict themselves at times. I could never lead a group in prayer if asked. I'd sound like Ricky Bobby or draw a blank, or, God forbid, get tickled and start laughing. Maybe tap an invisible microphone and say "is this on?" or "check, 1,2,3". I'd be hearin' crickets and fearin' lightnin' too, 'cause of my inner religious conflicts. And we don't need any more religious conflicts.
Nice.
So if I simply tell Alah this is my theme song, we'll still get our virgins? (Man, I hope they're chicks. The manual is unclear)
For the record, I'm in 100% agreement with Ida but i do like the believers in here.
Good people.
Good people.
You should know better than associate with the likes of me Willy. You're screwed now. hahaha
Seriously, they are good people. And I'm sure we all agree on most stuff.
I know you're right Willy. I'm about there myself. Was just bored today and had some time to waste. Usually feel bad after it's over.
And the same from my side of the fence. The bottom line is that we won't know until we go to the Other Side. I hope that believers and non-believers agree that there IS the Other Side.
Man you're 100% right on everything. But it's not enough. It's like trying to convince a lesbian to sucking your dick. You'll keep trying to get her to suck it. But she won't. Just end up becoming friends in the end.
I see no reason to think there is another side other than death, but as a dumbass human I could be wrong. I imagine there are things about nature so incredible that we are incapable of understanding it. I also think that is what religions attempt to explain, but just in a primitive way.
To me, the Other Side is the opposite of Life. What sparks Life? And when that spark goes away, where does it go? Does it go to a life yet to come? Maybe the Buddhists are right when it comes to reincarnation.
To put it another way, my parents had a combined lifespan of 132 years. Yet, death will hold sway for however long until the End of Days. Which state has more sway...life or death?
Not Ida, but i get it man. Just hope everyone finds their own place. Whether it's shitting in a tin can or going to Heaven. Just wish the best for everyone
