All OAD's stay home

[poppycat]

Not one OAD in FF. no lottery pick in FF, maybe one first rounder.
(according to most mock drafts)
All four FF teams are made up of upper classmen with experience
with some good (not great) Fr..Is this the way it works best or should be??????????

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Interesting

 

[The_Answer1313]

Yeah but how many FR do you have in a given year that are one and done players? Not many right. And they are all being horded by specific teams.

It's always more likely a team makes the FF without a one and done simply because there's more of those teams out there lol

 

[Chimaera717]

Kentucky got better this year once Willis and Hawkins began playing at a high level. And we lost when Willis missed four or five wide open threes.

It's not a coincidence. You need the supremely talented OADs just the same as you need a few really high level experienced glue guys to hold 'em together. We don't win the 2012 title without Darius Miller.

 

[gossie21]

Zach Collins for Gonzaga might be one and done. It would probably be a mistake, but he's considering it.

 

[gracetoyou]

We'll all you have to do is bring up 2012, 2013, 2015, & and that goes out the window.

Regardless of class etc... it all depends on who's hot at the right time, who gets the brears, and who has some luck. That will vary from year to year.

Very simple and elementary thinking to look at this year and draw bunch of conclusions

 

[weatherbird]

Not one OAD in FF. no lottery pick in FF, maybe one first rounder.
(according to most mock drafts)
All four FF teams are made up of upper classmen with experience
with some good (not great) Fr..Is this the way it works best or should be??????????

This is correlating two things that really aren't related at all. The problem is, there are only a couple of teams that get one and done talent, so the odds are heavily in favor of the outcome this year. Kansas only had 1 one and done, and they got destroyed. Kentucky had 3, and lost to a very experienced UNC team, but the case could be made that the loss wasn't in their control. Every coach has a different way of building their team, and most of them are successful on some levels. Cal has done it primarily with one and done players, and look at his resume: 1 title, 2 title game appearances, 4 final fours, 6 elite eights in 8 years. 75% of the time he has been one of the last 8 teams standing, 50% of the time he has been one of the last 4 standing, and 25% he has been one of the last 2. Now look at all these teams that do it with 3-4 year guys, and tell me their resumes stack up to this. Don't take a composite, as you've done above, go team by team.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Kentucky got better this year once Willis and Hawkins began playing at a high level. And we lost when Willis missed four or five wide open threes.

It's not a coincidence. You need the supremely talented OADs just the same as you need a few really high level experienced glue guys to hold 'em together. We don't win the 2012 title without Darius Miller.

You could easily say we lost when Monk went into a shooting slump as well tho. I mean if Monk is scoring in the 20s vs UNC, that's a W.

I think the whole one and done thing is overblown honestly. You just need talent and good players to win a title.

We didn't lose to UNC because we had the wrong mix of upper and lower classman, we lost because they are also a good team. It happens

 

[WildMoon]

It's really not about freshman or seniors.

It's about having best balance of talented players. Multi-dimensional one at that from 1 - 5. Of course that's ideal situation, so some flaws will exist. But the key is to minimize it.

To be honest, what coach Cal is doing is extremely difficult i think. Shockingly he still has the most tourney wins since 2010(when coming to UK).

 

[The_Answer1313]

This is correlating two things that really aren't related at all. The problem is, there are only a couple of teams that get one and done talent, so the odds are heavily in favor of the outcome this year. Kansas only had 1 one and done, and they got destroyed. Kentucky had 3, and lost to a very experienced UNC team, but the case could be made that the loss wasn't in their control. Every coach has a different way of building their team, and most of them are successful on some levels. Cal has done it primarily with one and done players, and look at his resume: 1 title, 2 title game appearances, 4 final fours, 6 elite eights in 8 years. 75% of the time he has been one of the last 8 teams standing, 50% of the time he has been one of the last 4 standing, and 25% he has been one of the last 2. Now look at all these teams that do it with 3-4 year guys, and tell me their resumes stack up to this. Don't take a composite, as you've done above, go team by team.

Exactly

 

[Aike]

Three of those four teams are going to their first (or essentially first) Final Fours.

So do you want to build like they do, and hope that once in a great while you accumulate the right mix to make a run?

I like making a run every year, personally.

 

[poppycat]

Yeah but how many FR do you have in a given year that are one and done players? Not many right. And they are all being horded by specific teams.

It's always more likely a team makes the FF without a one and done simply because there's more of those teams out there lol

Agree on the OADs, but no lottery picks and maybe 1 first rounder (any class)
seems rare.
P.S. I favor the balanced team . Our problem was not our OADs,
more so in not enough experienced support. It take a lot (or lot of luck)
of mature talent to win it all.

 

[The_Answer1313]

All I could ask if for UK to be in the conversation the majority of the years. The more years we are in the discussion, the better shot we have at winning another title.

Cal's system is working just fine.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Agree on the OADs, but no lottery picks and maybe 1 first rounder (any class)
seems rare.
P.S. I favor the balanced team . Our problem was not our OADs,
more so in not enough experienced support. It take a lot (or lot of luck)
of mature talent to win it all.

But we had experience right? We had Mulder, Hawkins, Issac, Willis, .....

What people really want when they say experience is what UNC has this season. Experience players who also happen to be extremely talented as well.

You just aren't going to find that very often tho.

 

[coolioo1]

There was a variety of teams with stud freshmen. UK had mainly younger players, but KU had a stud and its best player was a senior. UCLA had a lot of upperclassmen and so did Duke! UK came the closest of any of those teams....so I hope Calipari keeps doing what he does!!!!!! How many 5 star recruits does Roy need to ruin so he can keep them for 4 years...heck they don't even earn a real education!

 

[gbl97]

Which experienced team would you trade their last 8 seasons for our freshmen-laden last 8 seasons?

 

[morgousky]

Kentucky is too young most of the time and that's why I think Cal finishes with a slew of final fours and few titles. It's just too hard to win championships / 6 tournament games with 4 freshman leading the pack. We need more balance. Not Kentucky 3 stars that we take with no intention of using them in big roles, I mean CDR's, Antonio Andersons, Dorsey's, WCS's etc. Cal can do it and his best teams had great upperclassman. It's a fact. But we are what we are and I'm afraid the beast has grown too big to stop. CDR probably Goes pro at UK after 1 year. I'm learning to just take the good with the bad with Cal.

 

[Blueaz]

Justin Jackson...what year is he?
I don't follow UNC...but I thought he was a freshman. I know I have heard his name mentioned many times in 1st round

 

[The_Answer1313]

Justin Jackson...what year is he?
I don't follow UNC...but I thought he was a freshman. I know I have heard his name mentioned many times in 1st round

Junior

 

[TheKentuckyKid]

If we weren't screwed by the refs there would be plenty.

 

[poppycat]

But we had experience right? We had Mulder, Hawkins, Issac, Willis, .....

What people really want when they say experience is what UNC has this season. Experience players who also happen to be extremely talented as well.

You just aren't going to find that very often tho.

Agree on Hawk and Willis.......Mulder, older but not so experience
and Hump, not much crunch time game experience,

 

[mdlUK.1]

Kentucky is too young most of the time and that's why I think Cal finishes with a slew of final fours and few titles. It's just too hard to win championships / 6 tournament games with 4 freshman leading the pack. We need more balance. Not Kentucky 3 stars that we take with no intention of using them in big roles, I mean CDR's, Antonio Andersons, Dorsey's, WCS's etc. Cal can do it and his best teams had great upperclassman. It's a fact. But we are what we are and I'm afraid the beast has grown too big to stop. CDR probably Goes pro at UK after 1 year. I'm learning to just take the good with the bad with Cal.

We have 8 championships in 100+ years. Many times we've had tons of senior leadership and still failed to win. Getting to the elite 8 is a great season by any standards.

 

[UKUGA]

Stick us in another region and that might change.

Just putting us in the Midwest with KU could likely have resulted in us or KU making the FF.

Oh, and Markelle Fultz went to Washington instead of a real school.

 

[morgousky]

We have 8 championships in 100+ years. Many times we've had tons of senior leadership and still failed to win. Getting to the elite 8 is a great season by any standards.

As I've said before, I just think Cal is a goat and is capable of more than Tom Izzo status which is here he's headed if he doesn't slightly adjust in some way, even if its minor. If someone wants to compare him to the past they can. I think Cal should have a legacy similar to Calhoon or Knight at minimum. These young teams could stop it from happening in the end.

Having said that I thought this team would get bounced in the second round. They really turned into a good one.

 

[poppycat]

Which experienced team would you trade their last 8 seasons for our freshmen-laden last 8 seasons?

Not any, no problem with 3 OADs every year, it's what we don't have
that 's stop UK from being even more dominating.

 

[poppycat]

If we weren't screwed by the refs there would be plenty.

OR:
1. Willis or Monk made 1 more 3
2. Made 1-2 D stops in the last min......(UCLA game)
3. Got 2-3 more rebounds

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

The OAD is a crap shoot.. Wasn't

this in Cal's opinion, his best class? Yet 2 of the 5 were not a part of the run to the elite 8. The guys who do make it to their junior/senior years are experienced in class rank only. They haven't gotten the PT to make them truly experienced. Willis got a lot of run this year but would not have if WG had been able to do anything at all. Just the way it is and it's not going to change.

The 4 FFs in 5 years justification needs to just end. Starting next year, I'm going to add this every time it's brought up ... and none since. We'll be back in the hunt again next year, but that's not ALL you can ask for.

 

[TheDude73]

There are some (sometimes me included) that believe the deck is stacked against Kentucky and Cal, specifically to keep any "one-and-done" team from dominating year in and year out. Look at the fact that Higgins coincidentally called both Wisconsin and last night's UNC losses. Look at 2014 and this year's meat grinder of a bracket vs. the others.

If the NCAAT seeding and field determination was done randomly and without human subjectivity and agendas, I think UK would have had at least 3 NCs since Cal arrived - including this year. But alas, they will never relinquish control, and as long as Cal is bringing another freshman-laden, OAD team into the tournament, they will always make it as difficult as possible for us to get another NC.

 

[TheKentuckyKid]

OR:
1. Willis or Monk made 1 more 3
2. Made 1-2 D stops in the last min......(UCLA game)
3. Got 2-3 more rebounds

We were good enough to almost overcome the terrible biased officiating.

 

[The_Answer1313]

There are some (sometimes me included) that believe the deck is stacked against Kentucky and Cal, specifically to keep any "one-and-done" team from dominating year in and year out. Look at the fact that Higgins coincidentally called both Wisconsin and last night's UNC losses. Look at 2014 and this year's meat grinder of a bracket vs. the others.

If the NCAAT seeding and field determination was done randomly and without human subjectivity and agendas, I think UK would have had at least 3 NCs since Cal arrived - including this year. But alas, they will never relinquish control, and as long as Cal is bringing another freshman-laden, OAD team into the tournament, they will always make it as difficult as possible for us to get another NC.

UNC was what 4 seconds last season from a national title.
I think regardless what region we were in, we would have had to eventually play this game.

We kinda did this to ourselves tho. We win a home game vs UCLA or a home game against KU or @ UL we are the 1 seed. At worst we would have just swapped with UNC but even that would have meant avoiding UCLA in the S16. At best we would have been the last 1 seed and shipped out West with Gonzaga as our 2.

You can still get screwed as a 1 seed but if we want to have the best shot at getting a good bracket, that's where we need to be.

 

[Catzman]

You mean look at this one season where that happens to shake out? Or do we look at the past 5 seasons where there were multiple first round/lottery picks/OADs?

I can't believe this dead horse gets beat as often as it does.

 

[The_Answer1313]

"If I had a choice between talent and experience, I'm taking talent everytime"

-John Calipari


It's worked out pretty well so far.

 

[JC CATS]

Yeah but how many FR do you have in a given year that are one and done players? Not many right. And they are all being horded by specific teams.

It's always more likely a team makes the FF without a one and done simply because there's more of those teams out there lol

Stop it! Quit throwing facts in there and making sense. How many teams in the country have OAD's? A lot more don't have them.

 

[gracetoyou]

Kentucky is too young most of the time and that's why I think Cal finishes with a slew of final fours and few titles. It's just too hard to win championships / 6 tournament games with 4 freshman leading the pack. We need more balance. Not Kentucky 3 stars that we take with no intention of using them in big roles, I mean CDR's, Antonio Andersons, Dorsey's, WCS's etc. Cal can do it and his best teams had great upperclassman. It's a fact. But we are what we are and I'm afraid the beast has grown too big to stop. CDR probably Goes pro at UK after 1 year. I'm learning to just take the good with the bad with Cal.

Come on dude face reality. It's hard to win championships no matter what age your players are or where your coaching or how much talent you have. Good grief we have eight national championships in decades of basketball. It's hard to win championships!!

Some of you just do not get it and live in your little fantasy world of basketball. Get real!!

 

[The_Answer1313]

You can't win with freshman

it's as if 2012 never happened lol

 

[poppycat]

I started this thread to point out what I considered an oddity.
(according to some mock drafts, there is not even 1 lottery pick
in the FF and only 1st rounder.) That could change..
Like the discussion, nut didn't intend for the thread to become
a Cal "right or wrong" subject.
I know you can win with FR, but no one has ever won with only FR.

 

[poppycat]

You can't win with freshman

it's as if 2012 never happened lol

Has that been said? I've will repeat what I have said.
"No one has ever won with ONLY Freshmen......."

 

[The_Answer1313]

Has that been said? I've will repeat what I have said.
"No one has ever won with ONLY Freshmen......."

What team ever has ONLY freshman?

 

[poppycat]

What team ever has ONLY freshman?

Huh ? That's what I said, teams before have had enough Fr for a short
rotation, but of course never used.
We had 6 FR and raw Soph, (Hump)
could have eaten most of the minutes if were good enough.
We will probablly have 7-8 Fr next year..maybe all 5-4 *s. (8 man rotation)
Your opinion.....could they win a title??

 

[jof2]

Not one OAD in FF. no lottery pick in FF, maybe one first rounder.
(according to most mock drafts)
All four FF teams are made up of upper classmen with experience
with some good (not great) Fr..Is this the way it works best or should be??????????

How many times have they been there other than Carolina?