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Ali's fumbled punt

jpbky2

Sophomore
Nov 17, 2002
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Just got off the phone with a Razorback friend of mine and we were chatting about the game. He said the big talk there is the fumbled punt we had that was clearly recovered by Arkansas. I remember the fumble, but I sit at the complete other end of the stadium and didn't even know it was an issue. Anybody see it? I was just curious.
 
It certainly looked like it bounced right into the belly of their long snapper (I believe is who it was). He then came up with it from the bottom of the pile. UK players had arms in there, but not sure how the heck the refs decided that it was UK ball. All in all, I think it is a fairly moot point. That is the same drive where UK went for it on 4th and short on our side of the 50. We did gain 18 yards from the start of the drive, but regardless, all Arkansas got out of that was 3 points. So, they still got their great field position and didn’t really take great advantage of it.
 
Just got off the phone with a Razorback friend of mine and we were chatting about the game. He said the big talk there is the fumbled punt we had that was clearly recovered by Arkansas. I remember the fumble, but I sit at the complete other end of the stadium and didn't even know it was an issue. Anybody see it? I was just curious.
You could see it on the TV. UA clearly recovered it and had it taken away from them at the bottom of the pile. Fortunate break for us that it was ruled in our favor on the field because they couldn't reverse on replay no matter what. We ended up turning it over on downs anyway so the bad call only cost UA about 15 yards. They probably still would have only got a FG out of it. Ultimately the bad call didn't factor into the game.
 
If both teams have a player under the pile with arms/hands around the ball it goes to the offense which in this case was UK.

As another poster stated it did not make a difference as the reason the Hogs got slaughtered was because they had no answer for Bowden Jr. and his exploits.
 
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I don't really trust any of our WR's hands to cleanly field these punts but I guess we don't have much of a choice with Bowden having to play QB.
 
Let's be honest....Arkansas got 100% hosed on that call.

- Ali muffed the punt.
- Arkansas player was first one on it.
- We then get a dog pile of players swarming
- The biggest issue is Arkansas player had the ball in his hands as bodies we're pulled off the pile

The ref signaled UK ball which was great for us but from my TV a UK player never came up with the ball to my eyes (the Arkansas kid presented the ball at the end). Maybe a UK/Arkansas player were both arms on same ball as ref removed bodies from the pile....but if that call was reversed on a punt another team muffed...we'd all be exclaiming SEC is out to hose UK.

Final point...Ali isn't really a good punt return person. Putting aside muff, he takes no part in fair catching the ball that ended up on UK 2 yard line in 4th qtr (that is the value of Charles Walker, David Bouvier the past few years). That mis played punt alone set up Arkansas final TD and is the hidden yards UK can't afford to give up with the offense struggling as it will rest of year IMO. I truly hope kids like Devonshire, Tisdale can emerge once Bowden leaves next year as return men.
 
If both teams have a player under the pile with arms/hands around the ball it goes to the offense which in this case was UK.

As another poster stated it did not make a difference as the reason the Hogs got slaughtered was because they had no answer for Bowden Jr. and his exploits.
It's like in baseball, if the ball and the runner get to the bag at the same time, the tie goes to the runner. Same in football, the tie goes to the offense.
 
Punt returner toughest job in football imo
Agree. You have to catch a ball that may be doing crazy things in the air , or if you decide to let it hit the ground, it can take a weird bounce and hit you or a teammate and the other recovers, or it may just roll down to the two yard line.
 
- The biggest issue is Arkansas player had the ball in his hands as bodies we're pulled off the pile
That's what I thought too, until I watched it a 2nd and 3rd time. It did look like the Arkansas player was first on the ball. But by the time the refs cleared the bodies away, there was a tie - both Ali and the Razorback had arms locked around the ball. When the official signaled UK ball, Ali simply let go - then the Arkansas player bounces up to say "Hey, what the heck, here's the ball." I presumed, without knowing, that what someone says above is the case - if it's a tie, possession stays with the receiving team....
 
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Let's be honest....Arkansas got 100% hosed on that call.

- Ali muffed the punt.
- Arkansas player was first one on it.
- We then get a dog pile of players swarming
- The biggest issue is Arkansas player had the ball in his hands as bodies we're pulled off the pile

The ref signaled UK ball which was great for us but from my TV a UK player never came up with the ball to my eyes (the Arkansas kid presented the ball at the end). Maybe a UK/Arkansas player were both arms on same ball as ref removed bodies from the pile....but if that call was reversed on a punt another team muffed...we'd all be exclaiming SEC is out to hose UK.

Final point...Ali isn't really a good punt return person. Putting aside muff, he takes no part in fair catching the ball that ended up on UK 2 yard line in 4th qtr (that is the value of Charles Walker, David Bouvier the past few years). That mis played punt alone set up Arkansas final TD and is the hidden yards UK can't afford to give up with the offense struggling as it will rest of year IMO. I truly hope kids like Devonshire, Tisdale can emerge once Bowden leaves next year as return men.

Actually I liked Ali returning punts. He gained 18 yards on the one try he did catch and run. Yes, he should have fielded the punt that ended up on the two but he’s not the only punt returner to not field a punt when he should have and he’s not really a punt returner. Perhaps if he practiced that more he could become more comfortable in that role.
 
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It's like in baseball, if the ball and the runner get to the bag at the same time, the tie goes to the runner. Same in football, the tie goes to the offense.
I'm 69 and have always believed(taught) that in baseball the tie always went to the runner, but I learned over this summer that that belief was not true. Heard this from several commentators on TV and my nephew umps college bb.
 
I'm 69 and have always believed(taught) that in baseball the tie always went to the runner, but I learned over this summer that that belief was not true. Heard this from several commentators on TV and my nephew umps college bb.
I saw a play in the playoffs the other day that looked like a dead heat from all angles, and the runner was called safe after the review. He was called safe on the field , omso if he had been called out, that call would have probably stood, too.
 
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Arkansas clearly recovered the punt. It was difficult to tell until they showed an angle where Ali's left arm was not even near the ball. Arkansas guy had it covered up, and Ali's arm was kind of under the guy and completely out of the play. Refs suck ass, seems like we're usually on the losing end, but we got a huge gift there.
 
Let's be honest....Arkansas got 100% hosed on that call.

- Ali muffed the punt.
- Arkansas player was first one on it.
- We then get a dog pile of players swarming
- The biggest issue is Arkansas player had the ball in his hands as bodies we're pulled off the pile

The ref signaled UK ball which was great for us but from my TV a UK player never came up with the ball to my eyes (the Arkansas kid presented the ball at the end). Maybe a UK/Arkansas player were both arms on same ball as ref removed bodies from the pile....but if that call was reversed on a punt another team muffed...we'd all be exclaiming SEC is out to hose UK.

Final point...Ali isn't really a good punt return person. Putting aside muff, he takes no part in fair catching the ball that ended up on UK 2 yard line in 4th qtr (that is the value of Charles Walker, David Bouvier the past few years). That mis played punt alone set up Arkansas final TD and is the hidden yards UK can't afford to give up with the offense struggling as it will rest of year IMO. I truly hope kids like Devonshire, Tisdale can emerge once Bowden leaves next year as return men.

I don't necessarily disagree. But I will offer a counter-point.

The recovery by the Arkansas player wasn't clear. While he was certainly the first one to the ball, it looked like he bobbled it as he was trying to secure the ball. During that time Ali was able to get to the ball and get his hands on it.

As the pile was pulled off both Ali and the Arkansas player were possessing the ball. In a situation with "simultaneous possession" the tie goes to the offense. I'm not certain about this part, but I assume in a punt the receiving team is considered the offense. At any rate, once the refs awarded the ball to Kentucky, Ali release the ball and returned to the sideline. So the fact that no UK player came up with the ball is inconsequential to me.
 
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Arkansas probably recovered it but there was not indisputable evidence that they did
 
Arkansas probably recovered it but there was not indisputable evidence that they did
It's why we were taught whenever there's a muff, and you're the team that muffed the ball, form a pile. The other team will do so instinctively, don't hesitate, just do it. Because there's almost always going to be a guy there with the opposing team's player, and it's his job to fight, claw, scratch, away the ball by any means necessary. The refs aren't going to know since you both disappeared into the pile. So it was likely that Ali got enough the ball away from the Arky kid to give us the possession.
 
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Final point...Ali isn't really a good punt return person. Putting aside muff, he takes no part in fair catching the ball that ended up on UK 2 yard line in 4th qtr (that is the value of Charles Walker, David Bouvier the past few years). That mis played punt alone set up Arkansas final TD and is the hidden yards UK can't afford to give up with the offense struggling as it will rest of year IMO. I truly hope kids like Devonshire, Tisdale can emerge once Bowden leaves next year as return men.
To my recollection, this is the first game he was the PR. I still think many/most returners wouldn't have gone for the short punt. Hit on 22 & he was on 5/6 when punted. And he had a nice return. Net, I cut him slack for this game. Also, staff didn't replace other than with Bowden when AR field location gave us a shot at a long return.
 
In the slow mo it looked like the dude who “clearly” recovered didn’t have true possession. Ball popped out down by his legs. Dual possession goes to the offense and in a pile like that there’s no way to know who had the ball forst.
 
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In the slow mo it looked like the dude who “clearly” recovered didn’t have true possession. Ball popped out down by his legs. Dual possession goes to the offense and in a pile like that there’s no way to know who had the ball forst.
 
Why didn't the UA player get upset after they awarded the ball to us? Even on the sidelines he didn't look upset at all.
Maybe because he didn't have complete possession of it, just saying, if it had been me I would have been mad as hell.
 
Arkansas is the new UK,whatever can go wrong will and some stuff that can't go wrong does anyway.We have been there and done that. Sucks for them
 
In the slow mo it looked like the dude who “clearly” recovered didn’t have true possession. Ball popped out down by his legs. Dual possession goes to the offense and in a pile like that there’s no way to know who had the ball forst.
From the Bronx are we?Forst,indeed
 
That's what I thought too, until I watched it a 2nd and 3rd time. It did look like the Arkansas player was first on the ball. But by the time the refs cleared the bodies away, there was a tie - both Ali and the Razorback had arms locked around the ball. When the official signaled UK ball, Ali simply let go - then the Arkansas player bounces up to say "Hey, what the heck, here's the ball." I presumed, without knowing, that what someone says above is the case - if it's a tie, possession stays with the receiving team....
100% this... The announcers could have helped, by watching the video and then say this...they were too busy arguing for the hawgs to see Ali do that (bounce up)
You are on top of it...it's that HCJH thing
 
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Let's be honest....Arkansas got 100% hosed on that call.

- Ali muffed the punt.
- Arkansas player was first one on it.
- We then get a dog pile of players swarming
- The biggest issue is Arkansas player had the ball in his hands as bodies we're pulled off the pile

The ref signaled UK ball which was great for us but from my TV a UK player never came up with the ball to my eyes (the Arkansas kid presented the ball at the end). Maybe a UK/Arkansas player were both arms on same ball as ref removed bodies from the pile....but if that call was reversed on a punt another team muffed...we'd all be exclaiming SEC is out to hose UK.

Final point...Ali isn't really a good punt return person. Putting aside muff, he takes no part in fair catching the ball that ended up on UK 2 yard line in 4th qtr (that is the value of Charles Walker, David Bouvier the past few years). That mis played punt alone set up Arkansas final TD and is the hidden yards UK can't afford to give up with the offense struggling as it will rest of year IMO. I truly hope kids like Devonshire, Tisdale can emerge once Bowden leaves next year as return men.
It was reviewed. Not overturned. End of discussion.
 
100% this... The announcers could have helped, by watching the video and then say this...they were too busy arguing for the hawgs to see Ali do that (bounce up)
You are on top of it...it's that HCJH thing
Ha! So that’s what I got out of those 3 years. Now I know. Heh......
 
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Actually I liked Ali returning punts. He gained 18 yards on the one try he did catch and run. Yes, he should have fielded the punt that ended up on the two but he’s not the only punt returner to not field a punt when he should have and he’s not really a punt returner. Perhaps if he practiced that more he could become more comfortable in that role.




For some reason it seems like if the ball ain’t right to our returner we don’t move up to catch it in the air to fair catch. Bad move most of the time.
 
100% this... The announcers could have helped, by watching the video and then say this...they were too busy arguing for the hawgs to see Ali do that (bounce up)
You are on top of it...it's that HCJH thing

the official could also say blue ball, and told the white team player to take ball to sideline. (Teams use their own balls). So having the ark take it back to their sideline is a common practice. At these high levels though ball boys for each team are everywhere.

in high school they are only on each teams sideline. So ball is easier to have player run it off as. Ew ball from other side come in
 
Bowden returned a punt while playing QB. I hope he is back at WR against Ga

I was yelling from my seats to get Lynn in there, because Arkansas was punting from their end zone. Stoops was running down the sidelines looking for Lynne, but he did not have his helmet on. Then, the Razorbacks false started which allowed Lynn into the game. I thought it was a smart move, given the field position.
 
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The only reason I could think that the refs would give it to UK is when they pulled the pile away both Ali and the ARK player had it. If memory serves me correct when there is 2 with the ball the advantage goes to the offensive player. As far as the replay there was no way to tell anything in that scrum about who had recovered.
 
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