Adou playing time

[rob_47]

I don't like the whole idea that Adou is going to be losing minutes I really think he is an important part of this team. He doesn't demand shots but he is a good slasher and a physical presence on defense and crashing the boards. This team needs those skills.

The thing about Justin is he isn't an effecient shooter but he is still going to jack them up and he seems to be a guy other teams try to isolate on defense. I also don't think he does the tough things quite as well as Adou. If Justin would buy into being less of an offensive presence and more like Thiero I would feel a lot better. He has shown the ability to crash the offensive glass so it is just about commitment. This team should look to get the majority of our shots from our terrific guards. I really love the way this team plays I just think Adou brings more to the table than what he is given credit for and you don't have to worry about funneling shots to least effecient shooters.

 

[gharding07]

It's all about spacing offensively for this team. He provides no outside threat whatsoever, Cal likes to put him in the corner on offense, and that just doesn't work. He's a good rebounder and his defense is decent. 15 minutes a game is fine for him now that Bradshaw is back.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Edwards shot 3 for 5 last game in 14 minutes. If he keeps shooting to that level that's fine. I liked less 3s from Wagner and edwards in the Penn game as well and hope that continues.

I think thiero and edwards are gonna lose minutes.

I always wondered how it was gonna work when we got Bradshaw and then U and maybe Z even. Not enough minutes to keep 11 players haply.

 

[RondoBaller21]

Bradshaw is too good to sit behind Thiero. It is what it is.

 

[K_TIME]

Bradshaw is too good to sit behind Thiero. It is what it is.

But it should not come down to Thiero vs. Bradshaw....is the problem

There are 80 minutes between the 4 and 5 spots.

1. Mitchell is our main C....and deserving so. But why play him 35+ minutes? He's not that good. He is a below par rebounder and his defense is not eye opening as well. Cut him down to 30-32mpg and get his motor to play at a higher level.
2. Bradshaw is fine at 30 minutes as well....hes' going to be good enough to play heavy minutes but again, no need to run him 35+ mpg.
3. So that would leave a solid 20 minutes for Thiero to give the other two bigs a breather. Thiero is a better rebounder than Mitchell, his ball handling and playmaking is a plus to spread the floor and attack....he breaks down bigs pretty well in open floor spacing. Theiro is a probably our most aggressive interior defender....I like his motor on that end of floor. For sure he's the worst shooter and his height is a lesser shot blocker.

But this is one of many Cal warts....he plays his main guys too many minutes. A 4-5 minute break per half allows a player to rest and exert maximum effort when on floor. If you have good depth....you should by all means use it. But it's already happening that Bradshaw and Mitchell will play 36mpg and Thiero will play sparingly here as this unfolds.

 

[Fox2monk]

Love Adou but when he’s in he needs to play exactly how he did when we were thin. Attack and rebound. Keep doing that and he will get his 15-18 minutes a game.

 

[rob_47]

Bradshaw is too good to sit behind Thiero. It is what it is.

Yeah I know Bradshaw has to be in there I just hate to think we will play Edwards to the tune of trying to have a 30 point game like Cal daid the other day. Edwards isn't that guy yet he has to handle the ball a lot better.

 

[crawfords corner]

A great problem to have. Adou is going to have his time. He seems to be developing at a nice pace. I think he'll be fine about the minutes so long as Cal doesn't forget about him. Adou is a valuable member of this team.

 

[mcwildcats04]

The bulk of the 4/5 minutes have to go to Tre/Bradshaw just given need for floor spacing and rim protection/rebounding. It is what it is. Really just comes down to the 3 spot in terms of question for major minutes for Adou. But there, he's going to have to battle it out with Edwards or another guard if we want to go 3 guard lineups. We need to play Edwards more I feel just to see if he can hit his ceiling which is much higher than Adou. But, at some point, we have to make a decision to move on from that in favor of what is best for the team if it's clear he's not going to get there. But, I'd rather see a 3 guard lineup, as opposed to Adou in at the 3, just for peak floor spacing potential (we have enough in Tre/Bradshaw at the 4/5 for rebounding/rim protection where we don't need the 3 spot to be clogged up with someone who can't space the floor).

 

[A.Oney]

Yeah I know Bradshaw has to be in there I just hate to think we will play Edwards to the tune of trying to have a 30 point game like Cal daid the other day. Edwards isn't that guy yet he has to handle the ball a lot better.

Edwards played 14 minutes last game

 

[Jamal Mercer]

Adou is one of my favorite guys on the team. I hate that such a hard working athletic kid is gonna lose minutes to someone that probably doesn’t deserve to be playing more than him.

People rip his shooting, and it isn’t good. BUT, he has been very successful getting to the basket and finishing when he drives. With both hands.

 

[Fitch44]

I love what Adou brings but Bradshaw is an absolute game changer. He is just getting his feet wet and already out up a solid high energy 17,11,3 stat line in just his second game.

I love the way he moves, his effort, his skill set. Really hard to not have that dude on the court.

 

[dl51344]

I don't like the whole idea that Adou is going to be losing minutes I really think he is an important part of this team. He doesn't demand shots but he is a good slasher and a physical presence on defense and crashing the boards. This team needs those skills.

The thing about Justin is he isn't an effecient shooter but he is still going to jack them up and he seems to be a guy other teams try to isolate on defense. I also don't think he does the tough things quite as well as Adou. If Justin would buy into being less of an offensive presence and more like Thiero I would feel a lot better. He has shown the ability to crash the offensive glass so it is just about commitment. This team should look to get the majority of our shots from our terrific guards. I really love the way this team plays I just think Adou brings more to the table than what he is given credit for and you don't have to worry about funneling shots to least effecient shooters.

This I totally agree with. They need the physical presence and and the ability around the goal that Adou brings, plus experience. He is, at this time, more needed than Justin. But some were promised minutes and others not.

 

[OmahaCats]

Bradshaw is too good to sit behind Thiero. It is what it is.

Exactly. I like Thiero too. Guys that produce will play more minutes in particular games in which they are producing. And if they aren’t, they’ll play less minutes. That’s the beauty of having the quality depth we have . For guys like Thiero and players playing the 4 and 5, it’s clear that if you can rebound that you’ll be getting minutes. Thiero didn’t rebound very well last game

 

[rob_47]

Ye

Adou is one of my favorite guys on the team. I hate that such a hard working athletic kid is gonna lose minutes to someone that probably doesn’t deserve to be playing more than him.

People rip his shooting, and it isn’t good. BUT, he has been very successful getting to the basket and finishing when he drives. With both hands.

He has had some very impressive drives for sure

 

[Catman100]

He will be the first one transferring.
Followed by Burks.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Hopefully we see minutes level out. Mitchell needs to come back down to 25 mpg.

I like Michelle with AB, but would prefer a guy like Thiero with Edwards.

These guards have to play so assuming we don't get Z this year you have:

120 mpg for 1-3:
Wagner- 28
Reeves- 28
Shep- 26
Dilly- 26
Edwards- 10

40 mpg for 4:
Mitchell-20
Adou-14
Edwards- 6
Burks- n/a

40 mpg for 5:
AB- 25
Ugo- 10
Mitchell- 5

You can keep 10 happy I think. If someone emerges you bring minutes down for another.

 

[ib4ky]

IMO,
There has to be some short term insurance (injury)/ longer term balance to keep getting Adou 15+ minutes a game this year. Adou could/ should be here next year, Bradshaw/ Edwards/ Mitchell will not.

As far as 2024 recruiting right now, UK needs a solid returnee at the 3-4 position and the only two options currently are Thiero/ Burks....... Names being recruited are 2's and 3's.

I can see Cal starting two 6-10+ big guys next year.......

IMO, hypothetical minute breakdown with full roster:
Mitchell-28
Reeves-27
Shepherd-25
Bradshaw-20
Dillingham-20
Wagner-20
Thiero-20
Edwards-20
Ivisic-15
Onyenso/ Burks minutes dependent on game to game needs (foul trouble/ blowouts/ injury/ transfer/ etc.).

 

[Cats192]

Adou came in as a project. If you told me before his arrival that Adou would be a sophomore averaging 15 minutes a game--I would think he's done pretty good for himself to be at that point so early.

When someone gets injured or in foul trouble, he'll get more. He's a good role player. I don't think we need to lose sleep about whether he's getting 15 minutes vs 20.

 

[Padsfs07]

Edwards played 14 minutes last game

For the people that keep ignoring you. Edwards got 14 and Thiero got 15.

 

[Cats192]

For the people that keep ignoring you. Edwards got 14 and Thiero got 15.

Shhh. It's getting in the way of the narrative.

 

[mcwildcats04]

Hopefully we see minutes level out. Mitchell needs to come back down to 25 mpg.

I like Michelle with AB, but would prefer a guy like Thiero with Edwards.

These guards have to play so assuming we don't get Z this year you have:

120 mpg for 1-3:
Wagner- 28
Reeves- 28
Shep- 26
Dilly- 26
Edwards- 10

40 mpg for 4:
Mitchell-20
Adou-14
Edwards- 6
Burks- n/a

40 mpg for 5:
AB- 25
Ugo- 10
Mitchell- 5

You can keep 10 happy I think. If someone emerges you bring minutes down for another.

Mitchell needs closer to 30 mpg IMHO just given his importance. Same for AB.

 

[G-PIP]

He will be the first one transferring.
Followed by Burks.

I really, really hope you're wrong. That would be a very bad thing, especially for next season. Assuming normal development growth from season to season for young guys, they both almost certainly will have a bigger impact on winning next season than any high school 4/3 UK could bring in - and probably most, if not all, likely transfer options.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

It also isn't the worst thing if Adou also has a bit of a 2nd unit role, where he will cause fits for the other teams 2nd unit. Adou is a lot of energy and toughness, but offensively, still needs work. Nice enough 2pt FG% (although this feels like it'd inflated by dunks and layups)... but his 3pt percentages are very low. Low enough that if you play him starting minutes, then you really need to make sure 2-3 other guys can hit 3s and create offense.

It's funny, we talk so often here about how Cal shouldn't be playing the overly athletic bigs who don't have a modern offensive game.. but isn't that kind of Adou? The good thing is, we have 4 very capable guards who can create offense.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Wasn't Edwards in foul trouble last game? Suggesting he should get less minutes than Adou is crazy talk.

We just need him to continue to play the MGK role- very few outside shots- attack the rim and play hard on defense and rebound. Good things will happen. I'd be happy with the two of them getting about the same number of minutes.

I think Mitchell should get about 24 a game, same for Bradshaw. Big Z and Ugo about 5 to 7 each until they prove themselves.

The rest should go to the swarm of guards.

 

[Cal-4-Three]

I really, really hope you're wrong. That would be a very bad thing, especially for next season. Assuming normal development growth from season to season for young guys, they both almost certainly will have a bigger impact on winning next season than any high school 4/3 UK could bring in - and probably most, if not all, likely transfer options.

They're not going anywhere. Both love it here on and off the court.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

The same people that want Reed to get more minutes and start also say Thiero should play over Bradshaw and start.

Reed and Bradshaw look like the 2 players that are locks to need to be on the floor in March to me.

 

[Padsfs07]

He will be the first one transferring.
Followed by Burks.

I really doubt this.

I do worry about next year with Thiero. If Ivisic or Onyenso are back, and Calipari gets Edgecombe, Knox, and/or Richmond, I could see Thiero being the odd man out again. I don't see Quaintance and him fitting well together really and Cal may go with the Quaintance at the 4 too. We are a long way away from worrying about that and Thiero is in our starting lineup still.

Likewise, both players were rated in the late 100s out of high school, similar to only one other Calipari recruit, Dominique Hawkins. They shouldn't expect to play right away. Dontaie Allen and Derek Willis were even in the early 100s.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Easy solution. Play Thiero over Mitchell. With Bradshaw out there we need more of what he brings than Mitchell.

Adou is certainly not transferring.

There’s nothing about Burks that makes me think he would either.

 

[NociHTTP]

I love what Adou brings but Bradshaw is an absolute game changer. He is just getting his feet wet and already out up a solid high energy 17,11,3 stat line in just his second game.

I love the way he moves, his effort, his skill set. Really hard to not have that dude on the court.

We'll see after the UNC game. Much, much better opponent. Did you watch the floor-level video?

 

[NociHTTP]

Mitchell needs closer to 30 mpg IMHO just given his importance. Same for AB.

Lol, no.

 

[blackcat714]

Bradshaw is too good to sit behind Thiero. It is what it is.

Thiero is too good to sit behind Edwards

 

[SemperFiCat]

I will roll with Thiero over Edwards all day. And twice on game day. Thiero isn't amazing, but you can't teach what he does really well and provides. I don't know who you take min from to get it. But, you must get Thiero's energy and effort on the court as much as you can.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

I might be crazy, and I'm not knocking him, but I think we're going to see huge swings up and down with Bradshaw during SEC play. He's shown a lot of potential, but he's also still uneasy on the court. He will continue to thrive if he picks up energy rebounds and putbacks, but several of those fell into his lap against Penn. I'm looking forward to seeing how he handles the pick n pop and developing aggressiveness at the dunker spot (thanks Jimmy).

 

[G-PIP]

I will roll with Thiero over Edwards all day. And twice on game day. Thiero isn't amazing, but you can't teach what he does really well and provides. I don't know who you take min from to get it. But, you must get Thiero's energy and effort on the court as much as you can.

I agree with the point made by ib4ky above, which was: Who will likely still be playing for UK next season should be a factor in deciding playing time. This, of course, comes after the factor of who gives the team the best chance to win now.

So, if Thiero and Edwards are roughly equal and you believed that Thiero would be returning next season, but Edwards would not; then Thiero should get the preference. At that point the question is what are your priorities? Winning this season has to be # 1. But I think in a program expected to be in contention almost every year, you always keep an eye on doing whatever you can to improve your chances for winning the next season as well. Helping, developing and improving all the players (as players and people) is definitely the coaching staff’s responsibility also. But that can’t come at the expense of winning, and doesn’t need to.

I know many on the board claim Calipari’s #1 priority is getting freshmen to the NBA. But I’ve never believed this or even taken it seriously. I do believe that helping players reach their goal of being an NBA player is very important to Calipari – and it should be. Afterall, the young men come to college to further their own goals, and for most of the players Calipari recruits their goal is to get to the NBA as quickly as possible. If you’re going to recruit players with that goal and promise them that you’re going to help them reach that goal, then you owe it to them to do just that – as long as it does not conflict with what I think a UK basketball coach’s #1 priority should be, which is to win games and compete for championships without sacrificing character and integrity.

So, for instance, in the case of Thiero and Edwards, both are 4/3s for this team. I don’t think either player should take too many minutes from one of the four Guards playing the 3 (mainly Reeves in my opinion, but regardless). Mitchell has proven himself to be very much needed offensively at the PF spot. So, I think both Thiero and Edwards should currently be competing for minutes primarily backing up the 4 spot when Mitchell is out or playing the 5. If I’m right, then I think that the only question on playing time between Thiero and Edwards is which one at any particular moment gives the team the best chance to win? That might be different from game to game and as the season goes on. But if it’s likely that Thiero is coming back and Edwards is not, then I think the tie goes to Thiero.

 

[JonathanW]

It's all about spacing offensively for this team. He provides no outside threat whatsoever, Cal likes to put him in the corner on offense, and that just doesn't work. He's a good rebounder and his defense is decent. 15 minutes a game is fine for him now that Bradshaw is back.

There’s more to the game than scoring. Theiro is our best rebounder (maybe the 7-footers are better) and rebounding is a weakness; and he is good defensively and great at driving and getting to the FT line.

 

[Cats192]

There’s more to the game than scoring. Theiro is our best rebounder (maybe the 7-footers are better) and rebounding is a weakness; and he is good defensively and great at driving and getting to the FT line.

I think defense and rebounding matter a lot. I'm not saying they don't.

I don't think you force Adou into a more significant role just to help the defense and rebounding. I mean what are we arguing about exactly? Adou got 15 minutes last game. Are you saying he needs 30? 25?

I just don't think a team where Thiero plays 30 minutes a game is going places. What Adou provides in defense and rebounding, while important, don't outweigh what we'd give up on the offensive end.

I think a lot of guys can play better defense than they have. We're talking after every game how Reed Sheppard gets beat defensively. Is it time to cut Reed's minutes? No, because we like what he does on offense. We're willing to forgive some mistakes because we feel like the rest outweigh those. Why isn't the same true for other players?