2nd Round UKNorse Vs. RuppsRunts

[DraftCat]

Draft Bracket - http://challonge.com/vgm0ajvi

UKNorse - Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic, Devin Booker, Lonzo Ball, Otto Porter Jr. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Jonas Valanciunas, Marcus Smart, Kenneth Faried, Danny Green, Dragan Bender

Ruppsrunts - Lebron James, Isiah Thomas, Andre Drummond, Khris Middleton, Malik Monk, Derrick Favors, Jayson Tatum, Greg Monroe, Elfrid Payton, Thon Maker, Tim Hardaway jr, Frank Ntilikina

This is the playoffs who has the best team and will win the most championships over a 7 year period. Please vote. This round ends 8/17 at 10:00 PM Est.

 

[DraftCat]

1st 3 seasons
PG - Smart, Giannis, Lonzo 1st 3 seasons
SG - Booker,Caldwell-Pope Lonzo, Green
SF - Giannis, MKG, Caldwell-Pope Green
PF - Faried, Jonas, Bender
C - Jokic, Jonas, Bender

Seasons 4-7
PG - Lonzo, Giannis, Smart
SG - Booker,Lonzo, Caldwell-Pope, Green
SF - Giannis,Caldwell-Pope, MKG, Green
PF - Bender, Faried, Jonas,
C - Jokic, Jonas, Bender

 

[WildMoon]

I personally feel like my young squad no one over the age of 28 I believe is prime and loaded to win Championships years 3-7 of this contest.

Giannis is the next superstar and will be able to easily hang with Lebron as he ages into this contest. Our boy Booker just scored 70 this season...I have the best big passing man in the game with Jokic. Matter of fact my entire team is easily the best at passing in this entire tournament.

Plus I have tons of young defense MKG, Caldwell-pope, Otto-porter to shut down any hot three point shooters or drivers.

This would have been easier had you not reached for Greek Freak as a first pick...

 

[DraftCat]

This would have been easier had you not reached for Greek Freak as a first pick...

Would of been too easy taking Durant.... had to give myself a challenge. Plus I think you underrate Greek Freak a bit. He's going to dominate the Eastern Conf. soon.

I think what ultimately will bite me is I drafted a lot of really good players but they are on average to bad teams. They don't get much publicity. Oh well we will see over 2 days.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Would of been too easy taking Durant.... had to give myself a challenge. Plus I think you underrate Greek Freak a bit. He's going to dominate the Eastern Conf. soon.

Would've been easy? More like would've been smart too. Lebron will own Giannis the next 5 years. And owning the eastern conference means he's better than who? Gordon Hayward? He's not better than Lebron.

Do you really think this guy is condusive to winning championships? Because trust me he will be around yelling about this and that the rest of his life.

How I view my team shaking out.

1st 3 seasons
PG - Smart, Giannis, Lonzo 1st 3 seasons
SG - Booker,Caldwell-Pope Lonzo, Green
SF - Giannis, MKG, Caldwell-Pope Green
PF - Faried, Jonas, Bender
C - Jokic, Jonas, Bender

Seasons 4-7
PG - Lonzo, Giannis, Smart
SG - Booker,Lonzo, Caldwell-Pope, Green
SF - Giannis,Caldwell-Pope, MKG, Green
PF - Bender, Faried, Jonas,
C - Jokic, Jonas, Bender

I also want to point out the smallest person on my team is Marcus Smart and he is 6'4. I have a very lengthy tall get on the break squad. That I don't believe is being mentioned. I think Lonzo might be my most "un-athletic player" and he has very good vision don't believe me watch summer lg highlights from this year.

So year 1-3
Isiah >Smart
Booker> Monk
Lebron>Giannis(100% in first 3 years)
Favors> Faried
Drummond=Jokic
My bench Middleton, Tatum, Monroe, Payton,FN,Maker, THjr > Pope, Lonzo, MKG , Green, Bender, JV.
4-7
Thomas> Lonzo
Booker=Monk (I think monk could even grow to be the better SG on pure athleticism and shooting)
Lebron=GF
Favors> Bender
Drummond=Jokic. Unknown either or could be better. I like Drummond for his size and rebounding but jokic could improve his playmaking skills.


I just think my teams deeper as a unit

 

[WildMoon]

Would of been too easy taking Durant.... had to give myself a challenge. Plus I think you underrate Greek Freak a bit. He's going to dominate the Eastern Conf. soon.

i haven't underrated him at all. I think you overrate him clearly.

He is great, but any of these three are better and at better age.

Durant, Kawhi, and AD.

His overall efficiency wasn't top 5. It was 10th, and he was even behind your own Jokics. Of course PER isn't everything, but its a nice general summary of stat. There is many other factors.

I like Greek Freak, but i would have picked him maybe 4th or 5th. Not 1st...

But which brings to next point which is that Jokic is a great pick. He's underrated and probably produce great numbers, he does a lot of things well. Not sure how your defense works. This is probably another reason why Kawhi would have been great and game changer.

Lebron James will still be good for a while. hard to say. hrmmmmmm

Convince me...you haven't yet. LOL

 

[DraftCat]

Would've been easy? More like would've been smart too. Lebron will own Giannis the next 5 years. And owning the eastern conference means he's better than who? Gordon Hayward? He's not better than Lebron

I think 5 years is a stretch 3 at the most. All it takes is 1 major injury like Kobe to start that rocket decline. If anything Giannis will match Lebron point for point, rebound for rebound. My team outside of Lebron beats you in every spot.

 

[DraftCat]

i haven't underrated him at all. I think you overrate him clearly.

He is great, but any of these three are better and at better age.

Durant, Kawhi, and AD.

His overall efficiency wasn't top 5. It was 10th, and he was even behind your own Jokics. Of course PER isn't everything, but its a nice general summary of stat. There is many other factors.

I like Greek Freak, but i would have picked him maybe 4th or 5th. Not 1st...

But which brings to next point which is that Jokic is a great pick. He's underrated and probably produce great numbers, he does a lot of things well. Not sure how your defense works. This is probably another reason why Kawhi would have been great and game changer.

Lebron James will still be good for a while. hard to say. hrmmmmmm

Convince me...you haven't yet. LOL

If your going to vote for him because of Lebron do it. I don't really feel like he built his team for Lebrons strengths. Outside of Monk maybe Middleton where are your three point shooters? Thomas would be coming off the bench for his team and I bet he drafted him as a starter. Both Lebron and Thomas need the ball for 20 seconds of each shot clock.

 

[WildMoon]

If your going to vote for him because of Lebron do it. I don't really feel like he built his team for Lebrons strengths. Outside of Monk maybe Middleton where are your three point shooters? Thomas would be coming off the bench for his team and I bet he drafted him as a starter. Both Lebron and Thomas need the ball for 20 seconds of each shot clock.

I haven't decided who to vote for...just for the record i questioned Lebron pick also during Draft process..

I haven't decided yet.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

i haven't underrated him at all. I think you overrate him clearly.

He is great, but any of these three are better and at better age.

Durant, Kawhi, and AD.

His overall efficiency wasn't top 5. It was 10th, and he was even behind your own Jokics. Of course PER isn't everything, but its a nice general summary of stat. There is many other factors.

I like Greek Freak, but i would have picked him maybe 4th or 5th. Not 1st...

But which brings to next point which is that Jokic is a great pick. He's underrated and probably produce great numbers, he does a lot of things well. Not sure how your defense works. This is probably another reason why Kawhi would have been great and game changer.

Lebron James will still be good for a while. hard to say. hrmmmmmm

Convince me...you haven't yet. LOL

I'll convince you

Isiah Thomas> Lonzo ball. Easily IT is the second best scoring guard in the league and carried Boston to the conference finals this year where he lost to who? Lebron, who he's now paired up with.

Malik Monk = <Devin Booker. While Booker may prove to be the slightly better shooter, I will take the athleticism and driving ability of MM all day. He's also measure a higher vert than Russ Westbrook. MM is more of a game changer than a less mobile booker.

LBJ> Greek freak. For the next 5 years at least. Lebron doesn't rely on athleticism and can play and defend 1-5. Greek freak still growing into his own and isn't great at shooting shows flashes but hasn't won a playoff series and has a losing playoff record. The number 1 pick? I think not. Plus Tatum will be able to come in in the next after 5 years and have a step on the Greek freak. Not to mention he's a proficient scorer.

JV< Favors. But favors is a great defender and I'm not scared of JV being a player that will drop 40 on me in a night. A great overall player but Favors can D him up and out rebound him.

Drummond>Jokic . Don't think this even a question. Drummond while young is a dominant force on D and rebounding. Also has powerful post moves to cram on any defender. Jokic is a great passer but I don't see him able to go body to body with Drummond.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

I think 5 years is a stretch 3 at the most. All it takes is 1 major injury like Kobe to start that rocket decline. If anything Giannis will match Lebron point for point, rebound for rebound. My team outside of Lebron beats you in every spot.

I don't see Lebron declining in 3 years, in fact I think it's crazy talk. I also don't see him getting hurt we will keep him fresh and rest him during the season especially in old age. Doubt he tears his Achilles like Kobe which is a devastating injury. You also forget in his old age we can throw Lebron at the 4 which would make him the best handling and passing PF in the league.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Norse drafted 3 SFs In the first 6 picks. He lacks guard and post depth.

Drummond, favors, Monroe, maker> Jokic, JV, Faried, bender. 10/10 times

Middleton, Monk, Thomas, Payton, THjr, FN> Ball, Booker,Pope, Smart,Green.


Norses team simply isn't as deep as mine, certainly not over 7 years

 

[DraftCat]

All I'm saying is for a Lebron led team you literally drafted players such as Thomas who is a huge defense liability/ball hog + interior big men that do not go with Lebrons game at all.

Thats my main flaw in your team which is why it wouldn't work.

Are you forgetting Giannis is a Point-Forward just like Lebron -_- my team is huge defensively it would cause you problems all over the court.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

All I'm saying is for a Lebron led team you literally drafted players such as Thomas who is a huge defense liability/ball hog + interior big men that do not go with Lebrons game at all.

Thats my main flaw in your team which is why it wouldn't work.

You don't think Drummond eating the glass and playing D would help Lebron?

Also Lebron will drive and cause teams to crash leaving Thomas and Monk/Middleton open on the perimeter which gives him lethal shooters that he doesn't have now. And I don't see IT being a ball hog, he got his team a 1 seed and to the ECF.

 

[LukaszObrzut]

I'll convince you

Isiah Thomas> Lonzo ball. Easily IT is the second best scoring guard in the league and carried Boston to the conference finals this year where he lost to who? Lebron, who he's now paired up with.

Malik Monk = <Devin Booker. While Booker may prove to be the slightly better shooter, I will take the athleticism and driving ability of MM all day. He's also measure a higher vert than Russ Westbrook. MM is more of a game changer than a less mobile booker.

LBJ> Greek freak. For the next 5 years at least. Lebron doesn't rely on athleticism and can play and defend 1-5. Greek freak still growing into his own and isn't great at shooting shows flashes but hasn't won a playoff series and has a losing playoff record. The number 1 pick? I think not. Plus Tatum will be able to come in in the next after 5 years and have a step on the Greek freak. Not to mention he's a proficient scorer.

JV< Favors. But favors is a great defender and I'm not scared of JV being a player that will drop 40 on me in a night. A great overall player but Favors can D him up and out rebound him.

Drummond>Jokic . Don't think this even a question. Drummond while young is a dominant force on D and rebounding. Also has powerful post moves to cram on any defender. Jokic is a great passer but I don't see him able to go body to body with Drummond.

Booker is greater than Monk. If this is a year later the argument might be able to be made.
Drummond is not greater than Jokic if anything it's the opposite imo. Drummond has leveled out somewhat, has really shown zero progression imo. Not a great shot blocker, obviously has no range.. a good rebounder, but is he? HE does great at getting in position to get his own misses but he doesnt keep opposing bigs off the glass very well. I do not think it's a good thing to have Lebron, Favors and Drummond on the court at the same time.

This one is close.. overall.

 

[WildMoon]

I'll convince you

Isiah Thomas> Lonzo ball. Easily IT is the second best scoring guard in the league and carried Boston to the conference finals this year where he lost to who? Lebron, who he's now paired up with.

Malik Monk = <Devin Booker. While Booker may prove to be the slightly better shooter, I will take the athleticism and driving ability of MM all day. He's also measure a higher vert than Russ Westbrook. MM is more of a game changer than a less mobile booker.

LBJ> Greek freak. For the next 5 years at least. Lebron doesn't rely on athleticism and can play and defend 1-5. Greek freak still growing into his own and isn't great at shooting shows flashes but hasn't won a playoff series and has a losing playoff record. The number 1 pick? I think not. Plus Tatum will be able to come in in the next after 5 years and have a step on the Greek freak. Not to mention he's a proficient scorer.

JV< Favors. But favors is a great defender and I'm not scared of JV being a player that will drop 40 on me in a night. A great overall player but Favors can D him up and out rebound him.

Drummond>Jokic . Don't think this even a question. Drummond while young is a dominant force on D and rebounding. Also has powerful post moves to cram on any defender. Jokic is a great passer but I don't see him able to go body to body with Drummond.

Leborn DEFINITELY uses his athleticism, where you get this he doesn't use his athleticism. LOL, he does a football running back drives to get to the basket...He also can't defend 1 - 5. He does a lot of coasting, and isn't fully focused on defending 100%. He does that more so at end game situation.

Drummond being > Jokic isn't as clear as it should have been. Jokic efficiency is higher than Drummond...and doesn't have broken free throw. Jokic is doing amazing for 2nd year and if he improves even little more...then he is definitely BETTER than drummond.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Booker is greater than Monk. If this is a year later the argument might be able to be made.
Drummond is not greater than Jokic if anything it's the opposite imo. Drummond has leveled out somewhat, has really shown zero progression imo. Not a great shot blocker, obviously has no range.. a good rebounder, but is he? HE does great at getting in position to get his own misses but he doesnt keep opposing bigs off the glass very well. I do not think it's a good thing to have Lebron, Favors and Drummond on the court at the same time.

This one is close.. overall.

Drummond has only leveled off because of he's constantly in trade rumors and plays on a bad team. He's a great young versatile big and yes he's one of the most dominant bigs in the league on the boards. If he played on a better team I truly believe he would be better than DJ right now.




AD: 13 pts and 12 rbds In career average.
Jokic: 13 pts and 8 boards in career average

 

[DraftCat]

Jokic had 5 Triple Doubles this season... in what universe is Drummond better?

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Leborn DEFINITELY uses his athleticism, where you get this he doesn't use his athleticism. LOL, he does a football running back drives to get to the basket...He also can't defend 1 - 5. He does a lot of coasting, and isn't fully focused on defending 100%. He does that more so at end game situation.

Drummond being > Jokic isn't as clear as it should have been. Jokic efficiency is higher than Drummond...and doesn't have broken free throw. Jokic is doing amazing for 2nd year and if he improves even little more...then he is definitely BETTER than drummond.

I'm saying Lebron won't rely on his athleticism over the next 7 years. After he ages he's got the greatest BBall mind in the league and runs a spot on offense. Lebron has used his athleticism but doesn't rely on it nearly as much as GF over the next 7 yrs. I like LBJ to dominate at least the next 5 years. Hell Jordan not nearly the athlete Lebron is and played until 40

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Jokic had 5 Tripble Doubles this season... in what universe is Drummond better?

Triple Doubles don't equal the better player. Maybe if he was the lead assist man on his team TD would matter but Jokic averages only 3.8 apg for his career

 

[DraftCat]

I'm saying Lebron won't rely on his athleticism over the next 7 years. After he ages he's got the greatest BBall mind in the league and runs a spot on offense. Lebron has used his athleticism but doesn't rely on it nearly as much as GF over the next 7 yrs. I like LBJ to dominate at least the next 5 years. Hell Jordan not nearly the athlete Lebron is and played until 40

Once Lebron Athleticism goes so does his spacing on the court. Right now you give him 3 feet to make him shoot a jump shot. What happens when he can't bulldoze to the rim? People will play up on him and be able to finally guard him 1 on 1 there goes the passing lanes. Plus he coasts barely plays defense anymore and this season he averaged a crap ton of turnovers. Its only going to get worse over the next 7 years.

Plus part of me thinks he retires in the next 4 years objectively.

 

[LukaszObrzut]

Drummond has only leveled off because of he's constantly in trade rumors and plays on a bad team. He's a great young versatile big and yes he's one of the most dominant bigs in the league on the boards. If he played on a better team I truly believe he would be better than DJ right now.

View embedded media

AD: 13 pts and 12 rbds In career average.
Jokic: 13 pts and 8 boards in career average

Drummond doesn't own the glass like you would think when you see 17 boards. He gets a lot of tips that are around the rim, that sometimes go in.

He's a great player no doubt, but you're selling Jokic short... who also plays on a mediocre team, who was talked about in trade rumors (before he broke out) and is with a coach who sat him on the bench for the first half of the season until he realized how stupid that was.

 

[UKcats1988]

Jokic> Drummond and it's not really close. Drummond is being highly overrated here. Once Nurkic was traded Jokic took off and was one of the top 5 centers in the league.

 

[LukaszObrzut]

Would of been too easy taking Durant.... had to give myself a challenge. Plus I think you underrate Greek Freak a bit. He's going to dominate the Eastern Conf. soon.

I think what ultimately will bite me is I drafted a lot of really good players but they are on average to bad teams. They don't get much publicity. Oh well we will see over 2 days.

I'm not buying the "too easy" argument. I don't think ABC should be the number one prospect if you started a team today, still too many flaws... but he's definitely in the conversation I suppose.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

I'm not buying a 2nd year jokic on the nuggets. I mean somebody has to look good on the nuggets.

 

[UKcats1988]

I don't see a problem with taking Giannis 1st really. He's only 22 coming off a monster season where he was an all star, all NBA 2nd team, all NBA 2nd team defense and most improved player. He very well could be the next best player in the NBA in 4-6 years.

 

[UKcats1988]

Based on last season Jokic vs Drummond numbers

Drummond- 13.6 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 38% free throw, 53% fg, 20.9 PER, 0.9 Box plus minus


Jokic- 16.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.9 assists, 82% free throw, 57% fg, 26.3 PER, 8.4 box plus minus

 

[DraftCat]

Not to mention Jokic has only been a full time starter 1 year and this will be Drummonds 6th year in the league.

Based on last season Jokic vs Drummond numbers

Drummond- 13.6 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 38% free throw, 53% fg, 20.9 PER, 0.9 Box plus minus


Jokic- 16.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.9 assists, 82% free throw, 57% fg, 26.3 PER, 8.4 box plus minus

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

So you all are really going to vote for Lonzo ball as most likely to win championships?

 

[GonzoCat90]

Jokic is better than Drummond but that team isn't guarding anyone. There's not a rim protector on the roster. Booker gives you nothing but scoring.

But I also don't trust Middleton to stay healthy at all. I think IT can play the Kyrie role alongside LeBron where he makes insane shots as the offense stagnates and in crunch time, so that's a good pair, but man, Thomas kills you defensively too. I think there's too much weight on LeBron to play great defense with this roster and that's a concern.

Close matchup. I don't think one team can win it in the first three years and I don't think the other can in the last three.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Jokic is better than Drummond but that team isn't guarding anyone. There's not a rim protector on the roster. Booker gives you nothing but scoring.

But I also don't trust Middleton to stay healthy at all. I think IT can play the Kyrie role alongside LeBron where he makes insane shots as the offense stagnates and in crunch time, so that's a good pair, but man, Thomas kills you defensively too. I think there's too much weight on LeBron to play great defense with this roster and that's a concern.

Close matchup. I don't think one team can win it in the first three years and I don't think the other can in the last three.

You don't think Tatum can come in and play after lebron declines. And once IT declines put in Payton or FN? My team has the youth to back up the age holes

 

[GonzoCat90]

You don't think Tatum can come in and play after lebron declines. And once IT declines put in Payton or FN? My team has the youth to back up the age holes

If you play Elfrid Payton you lose even more shooting. Ntkilina is a nice physical guard but if you play he, Payton, Favors and Drummond that's more of a football team than an NBA squad. I don't necessarily dislike the individual pieces, just don't love the fit.

Still deciding on my vote.

 

[gossie21]

2 hours in and already 30+ replies? This one could get interesting.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

If you play Elfrid Payton you lose even more shooting. Ntkilina is a nice physical guard but if you play he, Payton, Favors and Drummond that's more of a football team than an NBA squad. I don't necessarily dislike the individual pieces, just don't love the fit.

Still deciding on my vote.

Move Greg Monroe in there then. He's plenty of a PF to score on the block with a jumper or post move. Also it might be "Football team post" but they certainly crash the glass. Also who plays Defense on his team? Nobody

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

I honestly think my team has much more depth than Norses'

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I'm saying Lebron won't rely on his athleticism over the next 7 years. After he ages he's got the greatest BBall mind in the league and runs a spot on offense. Lebron has used his athleticism but doesn't rely on it nearly as much as GF over the next 7 yrs. I like LBJ to dominate at least the next 5 years. Hell Jordan not nearly the athlete Lebron is and played until 40

Despite you saying Jordan wasn't nearly the athlete James is, which I find absurd, I have to go with you on this one.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Despite you saying Jordan wasn't nearly the athlete James is, which I find absurd, I have to go with you on this one.

i meant athlete in terms of body. Lebrons a solid 6'8 250 compared to Jordan at 6'6 210.

 

[DraftCat]

If anyone has any concerns about my teams defense... I do have MKG, Caldwell Pope and Marcus Smart to shut down defenders until my young guys learn to play both ways. Yes young guys do eventually learn how to play defense over a few years

As far a rim protectors go I do have Giannis playing free safety on defense kinda like what LBJ does. Big bodies with Jokic and JV are enough for this matchup.

Just a reminder people it isn't always who will win the first two seasons its who's projected to win more championships over the next 7 years. Unless you think LBJ can carry a football team to the championship I think mine wins out on this matchup.

Side note: Tatum isn't even gonna come close to LBJ and if its this much of a toss up right now you really think Tatum will be able to carry the reigns of this football team to the promise land? I don't.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

I guess when you have 2 quality Rebounding and defensive bigs your squad gets called a "Football team".

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Lonzo is going to lead a team as a PG to championships right away as a rookie? It probably takes him 3-5 years to polish his game to that level. He's also the only PG on the roster so if he gets hurt or is tired nobody on norses tream can come in and run the offense. Also who are we kidding that Ball and Booker will be able to guard Isiah Thomas( the second best scoring guard in the league ) and Monk/Middleton.