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2nd Round Gossie vs. 420Grover

Who has the chance to win more championships over the next 7 years?

  • Gossie

  • 420grover


Results are only viewable after voting.

DraftCat

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Nov 5, 2011
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Draft Bracket - http://challonge.com/vgm0ajvi

gossie21Karl Towns, Gordon Hayward, CJ McCollum, Mike Conley, Dario Saric, Nikola Vucevic, JJ Redick, Jaylen Brown, Eric Gordon, Dion Waiters, Gorgui Dieng, Trey Lyles

420grover - James Harden, Paul George. Deandre Jordan, Kemba Walker, LaMarcus Aldridge, Patrick Patterson, Brandon Ingram, Malcolm Brogdon, Marquese Chriss, Willie Cauley-Stein, Justin Jackson, Justise Winslow

This is the playoffs who has the best team and will win the most championships over a 7 year period. Please vote. This round ends 8/17 at 10:00 PM Est.
 
I mean, 420 drafted Justin Jackson who just knocked us out of the tournament plus 2 Dukies.....
More concerned with DJ and LA being his post players that will age quickly. Idk backups PP and WCS will be good enough to compete
 
I honestly love the thought of Harden, George and the huge potential Ingram has.. .
and then you add that to guys like LMA, DJ and Kemba who can help win now.

Need some argument both ways.
 
420 drafted several players that have contributed minimally or absolutely nothing at all so far in their career:
Justise Winslow
Justin Jackson
Brandon Ingram
WCS
Marquese Chriss
even Patrick Patterson has a career average of 8pts 5rebs (career high of 10pts 5rebs)

I just don't know how you can look at 7 proven players and 5 unknowns and project that the team will do much of anything over the next 4-5 years. So by the time they are winning anything Aldridge will be 36 (he's already lost 6ppg off his high-point in scoring in the last 2 years), Harden and Jordan will be 32 and starting to lose a step. Beyond that I just don't what the identity of the team will be.

Meanwhile I only took a flyer on two guys Jaylen Brown and Trey Lyles. I have a near endless supply of shooters, in a game that is becoming more and more perimeter oriented I have the biggest collection of deep threats of any roster. I've got guys that are all scoring machines in their prime, and one guy who is going to revolutionize the league (Towns). But that's my take on things.
 
I'll make my case later when I have a little more time but I'll start with this, I may have drafted 2 Dookies and a Heel but gossie drafted a Dookie, a Hoosier, and a Card.
 
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I'll make my case later when I have a little more time but I'll start with this, I may have drafted 2 Dookies and a Heel but gossie drafted a Dookie, a Hoosier, and a Card.
But nobody that knocked us out of the tournament.... and certainly not anyone that did so just 5 months ago.
 
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No one is stopping the trio of Harden, George, and Kemba from scoring for the next 4-5 years. Especially, gossie's squad that can't guard anybody. That gives me the win right there. LA has a little age on him but as the fourth option, he'll be just fine for a few more years. DJ is one of the best defensive big guys in the world, the best at rolling to the basket off the pick, and I have no doubt he can play at that level for 4 more years.

My bench may be largely unproven but the potential on both sides of the ball is massive. If Brandon Ingram lives up to 75% of his potential, he replaces everyone's scoring dropoff with age.
 
No one is stopping the trio of Harden, George, and Kemba from scoring for the next 4-5 years. Especially, gossie's squad that can't guard anybody. That gives me the win right there. LA has a little age on him but as the fourth option, he'll be just fine for a few more years. DJ is one of the best defensive big guys in the world, the best at rolling to the basket off the pick, and I have no doubt he can play at that level for 4 more years.

My bench may be largely unproven but the potential on both sides of the ball is massive. If Brandon Ingram lives up to 75% of his potential, he replaces everyone's scoring dropoff with age.
I didn't realize Conley and McCollum were such bad defenders. And that Kemba/Harden were somehow defensive stoppers.

You have no bench. Your top trio is decent (everyone's is...... unless they drafted Fox second round) but if they play 48 minutes then they aren't winning anything after April, their legs will be dead.
 
And if people are comfortable voting for Justin Jackson, that's their business.
 
Karl Towns would appreciate more votes

towned.0.gif
 
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I was up 10-7 this morning an 8 consecutive votes have all gone to 420. Maybe I should start dissecting the matchup a little more.

I can put out a starting lineup with
PG - Mike Conley Jr. (age 29) all-nba defensive team player, 40.7% 3pt shooter, 20ppg and 6apg
SG - CJ McCollum (25) probably the 3rd best SG this past season a 42% 3pt shooter, 23ppg
SF - Gordon Hayward (27) 37% 3pt shooter, 22ppg
PF - Dario Saric (23) 13ppg with minimal use as a rookie, 18ppg during Feb-April with starters minutes
C- Karl Towns (21) 25/12 - A generational player. 4th in offensive win shares, 7th in total win shares. Top 20 in nearly every advanced metric, top-10 in most. Franchise single season scoring leader, and youngest player (only 15th ever) to score 2,000 and grab 1,000 rebounds in one season). All in only his 2nd year in the league. And with a usage rate outside of the top-20 in the NBA.

In addition to that I have the largest collection of deep threats. Just my starting lineup shoots a collective 38% from 3. 420's best player Harden has only shot above 38% one time in his career. He has a few deep threats, but nothing approaching what I have. Off the bench I have Reddick(43%), Gordon (37%), and Waiters (39.5%) that kicked in an additional 532 3-pointers last year (My starters hit 636 at a 38% clip).

On the defensive side I have Conley, McCollum, and Gordon/Brown that are all good perimeter defenders. Hayward is top-20 in Defensive win shares (one of only 7 perimeter positions listed). Down low Towns, Vucevic, and Dieng are all solid rebounders. Towns averages 1.3bpg which is only slightly off from Jordan 1.7bpg.

I just thought I would toss an argument for my team out there.
 
gossie I honestly love your pick of Karl Towns... I think the issue with your roster is you don't have a Superstar. While I think Towns will get there most superstars in this era aren't centers. You have allstar players but none that many believe will win you a chip
 
Think Grover has the far superior team defensively, but I don't like how Kemba fits with Harden.

I also think there's a lot of redundancy among guys who may not ever be any good. You don't need Chriss and Jackson and Winslow to go with Ingram. Those Jackson and Winslow picks should have been other positions.

Gossie's team is weaker defensively, and while guys like Conley and Hayward are good but not great, I don't know if they're good enough to get Towns to glory while we wait on him to become a megastar.

On the flip side, I think most of his guys outside of Lyles, who was a pandering addition, will contribute.

It's tough. Grover has the two best players, but also has guys like Aldridge. Gossie has a team full of "yeah, he's solid. Don't hate him." But only one elite guy, and he's a baby right now.
 
Also I just noticed Gossie doesn't have a second point guard on the roster.

But Grover wasted a few picks.


I need more debate. I also may go about this wrong but I don't think in terms of the two teams playing each other. I think of each team playing the rest of the league trying to win a title.
 
Also I just noticed Gossie doesn't have a second point guard on the roster.

But Grover wasted a few picks.


I need more debate. I also may go about this wrong but I don't think in terms of the two teams playing each other. I think of each team playing the rest of the league trying to win a title.

Its a little hard to gauge @GonzoCat90 because not only are you comparing the matchup but to the rest of the league. I think you have to look at this objectively as in a hypothetical league these two teams are #1 and #2 over 7 seasons who wins the majority. That's at least how I view it.
 
I honestly didn't consider Lyles to be a pandering pick. I need a versatile PF and I think he was being undervalued because the Jazz refused to play him after January. When given minutes he has been highly productive. But apparently if you pick UK guys the only reason can be pandering.

As for the backup PG. I have both Waiters and McCollum that are combo guards. And frankly, anyone on my team can initiate the offense (except maybe Dieng). I don't see that as a huge impediment. Conley should be a top level PG through the full seven year window we are looking at.
 
I honestly didn't consider Lyles to be a pandering pick. I need a versatile PF and I think he was being undervalued because the Jazz refused to play him after January. When given minutes he has been highly productive. But apparently if you pick UK guys the only reason can be pandering.

As for the backup PG. I have both Waiters and McCollum that are combo guards. And frankly, anyone on my team can initiate the offense (except maybe Dieng). I don't see that as a huge impediment. Conley should be a top level PG through the full seven year window we are looking at.

Quoting this as proof a 36 year old PG can be top level. Thanks.
 
No question. I think we've had this discussion before and I generally agreed with you.

Except last year when I was sure your Tony Parker pick could die of old age at any moment.

Is there a statute of limitations on my arguments? I can't wait to trash Kawhi Leonard next summer.
 
Except last year when I was sure your Tony Parker pick could die of old age at any moment.

Is there a statute of limitations on my arguments? I can't wait to trash Kawhi Leonard next summer.
That was 2 years ago.

Last year I had Kemba on the cusp of an All-Star campaign.
 
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