…

[Girthang]

I also know there are others who claim for religious reasons that they should not have to get vaccinated, and even try to get religious exemptions to avoid it. I am a Christian, but fail to see the connection. Could someone please explain it to me?
Again, I am not being critical or judgemental, just wanting to understand the rationale. I mean I get why those who don't want any medicinal treatments of any kind would object. But if you are not one of those (opposed to any medical treatment), how is a covid vaccine different from the religous perspective than other vaccines or treatments?

I can give several answers here, though not all of them are mine. I've had quite a few discussions about this with people of differing Christian faiths and understandings. I've asked if it's OK that I share them here and they're fine with that. I may have to edit this a few times as instructed by them...

I know a family of Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) that don't accept anything foreign being injected or given through IV into their bloodstream. They believe God created us with everything we need to fight illnesses, and if they don't survive some illness have faith that it was God's will or plan for them.

I know another christian family that believes in keeping the commandments, including not eating biblically unclean foods like pork, shellfish, rodents, carnivores, etc. They don't believe God or His son intended for aborted fetal cells to be used in meds or medical development, whether they are cloned or original cells. They believe in informed consent and want to know exactly what is in any medicine they consume or are administered. They won't take anything that doesn't come from natural, clean food sources, including those that contain aluminum, mercury, and ingredients that are known carcinogens/harmful to humans. There were and are no inserts for these shots.

I know a couple of different seventh day sabbath keepers (Christians), one of which is a vegetarian, the other not. With the first it's pretty obvious why they wouldn't get shots with animal lr human tissues in them or used to make them. The non-vegetraian is a more faith based person and doesn't use typical healthcare options except where broken bones or torn ligaments and such are being treated. They expressed to me that they wouldn't take chemo if they were diagnosed with cancer, and won't take any more shots other than antibiotics or certain meds they knew were clean.

I know several Jewish people also. One is very against anything that involves waiving the right to informed consent. If you can't tell him exactly what's in it, it's not going in his arm or mouth. They don't do experimental drugs either. Most of the Jewish people I know didn't seem to question the shots.

Most of the Christians I know received the shots because they were mandated to see their families, travel, and keep their jobs. Some questioned them and some didn't want to take them, but gave in for the reasons mentioned. Others advertised and advocated for them, threatening their non-compliant family members with being ostracized if they didn't take it. (Which a small number after the fact conceded wasn't very Christian of them.)

Most have had covid since they started receiving shots, some multiple times. 1 has gotten it at least 3 times (maybe 4) since starting the protocol, and still doesn't have their taste back (since the first, post shot illness except sporadically).

The people I know that have been healthiest during this whole thing are those who didn't get any or stopped the process fairly early along the way.

 

[phunterd]

 

[Girthang]

I know this is rare in The Paddock, but I am NOT wanting a debate on this. I honestly just want to understand a point of view.

I understand that many don't want to be forced (or even cohersed) into taking the vaccine by the government. And I understand why people don't want to be told what to do, especially if they don't think they are harming anyone else.

I also know there are others who claim for religious reasons that they should not have to get vaccinated, and even try to get religious exemptions to avoid it. I am a Christian, but fail to see the connection. Could someone please explain it to me?
Again, I am not being critical or judgemental, just wanting to understand the rationale. I mean I get why those who don't want any medicinal treatments of any kind would object. But if you are not one of those (opposed to any medical treatment), how is a covid vaccine different from the religous perspective than other vaccines or treatments?

My perspective, as a Christian (even though my behavior does not yet adequately reflect that of Jesus), is a very simple one.

After what happened in the last 2 centuries during WW2 (in Germany, China, and elsewhere) and in the US and Canada, I really don't see how anyone should need and be forced to try to procure an exemption to keep someone from putting ANYTHING into or on their body that they don't want in it, ESPECIALLY something that is experimental at best and extremely PATHOGENIC at worst.

Exemption should be the UNRESTRICTED RULE, WHILE those who wish to receive treatments regardless of what is in them can apply and give their consent freely.

Nuremberg addressed this very succinctly, although not thoroughly enough. The US gov alone still violated its precepts many times and in many parts of the country and world. That should never have been ok, nor should it have been hidden for decades.

The "asymptomatic spreaders" myth has been throughly debunked over and over and over again. Only those who wish to remain fearful and ignorant and to appear virtuous still believe that garbage.

If you want to talk about the tech involved, there's a thread for that where plenty of people are willing to engage with you. Hope some of this is helpful.

 

[ryanbruner]

Honestly I got vaccinated....still managed to get covid probably 10+ times which is insane. I would say some of those were the same sickness over a two week period and just not completely healing. It has put me down a few times I will say that. I won't be getting a booster.

With that being said anyone who was above the age of 50 with underlying health issues needs to get the damn vaccine. Covid killed my father and he was very much anti-vax because of the bullshit politicization of the vaccine and the conspiracy theories. My mom was the same way and hearing her cry at his viewing and asking herself why they didn't just get the vaccine was painful as all hell. I will never blame her though.

Again if you are 50+ and/or have underlying issues you are being extremely selfish to everyone who cares about you to try and hold on to dumbass conspiracies about tracking chips and magnetic arms and shit. If you are young and healthy......there's no need to get it at this point and honestly maybe you never should have if you did.

 

[CastleRubric]

There are genuine religious objections to vaccines at times - especially when the vaccines haven't been properly tested, contain contaminants, and are inherently harmful to
your health

In a nutshell - for Christians - the line is drawn with your body being a creation of God and a metaphorical temple -

 

[CastleRubric]

China is in trouble because they shut down so hard that their people didn't catch the coof when it was at its weakest form. Most Americans have already had it twice... The vaxed have probably already had it 4 times.

China avoided using the (not ready for
human use) mRNA injections that
the west tried to mandate

They fielded a traditional live attenuated virus ((LAV)) type injection that would be similar to your annual flu shots.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Honestly I got vaccinated....still managed to get covid probably 10+ times which is insane.

lol you didn’t get vaccinated you got a shot

 

[ryanbruner]

lol you didn’t get vaccinated you got a shot

Well 2 shots but sure. Whatever your truth is kind fellow.

 

[phunterd]

Air Force football player Hunter Brown dead at 21

Hunter Brown, a sophomore center from Louisiana, died on Monday while walking from his dorm room to class, Air Force said on Tuesday. He was 21.

www.foxnews.com

Think we should start asking questions or nah?

 

[BBBLazing]

Re- losing 10 people to covid. Very sorry for your loss. Lost a family friend to covid.

Re-shots
-Neighbor's brother died within 8 hours of receiving the shot.

-Family member was diagnosed with leukemia within days of the 2nd dose. No family history of cancer or leukemia. Gone a year later due to leuk. and massive bleeding and clotting issues. Had covid 2x during treatment.

-Someone I know who administered the shots saw a lot of AEs and lost 2 family members within days after they got the shots.

So, do you have any connection to your neighbor's brother dying because of the shot, or is it just timing? I'm not denying, just asking. My dad died within 2 minutes of eating a steak. I did not blame it on the steak.

I've not heard of any connection to the vaccine and leukemia. I've had leukemia, fortunately I've been in remission for awhile, but the vaccine did not affect that part of my health.

I'm not sure what AE's are, so I'd like you to explain that further.

My question is still the same, does anyone know anyone that was a confirmed death or serious illness confirmed to be caused by a vaccine?

 

[Bill Cosby]

I don’t personally know anyone who died from Covid. I know women who had significant changes in their menstrual cycles after the shot, and a handful of people who have had heart issues. Could be completely unrelated to the shots.

 

[LOL_Man]

With that being said anyone who was above the age of 50 with underlying health issues needs to get the damn vaccine. Covid killed my father and he was very much anti-vax because of the bullshit politicization of the vaccine and the conspiracy theories. My mom was the same way and hearing her cry at his viewing and asking herself why they didn't just get the vaccine was painful as all hell. I will never blame her though.

Again if you are 50+ and/or have underlying issues you are being extremely selfish to everyone who cares about you to try and hold on to dumbass conspiracies about tracking chips and magnetic arms and shit. If you are young and healthy......there's no need to get it at this point and honestly maybe you never should have if you did.

You probably made the best post in this thread. I know around a dozen that were fierce anti-vaxxers that stubbed up, didn't get the shot, then died alone in the hospital begging for the vaccine.

Some really good otherwise perfectly sane people just gone for no reason other than they figured the odds were with them and due to their political beliefs they basically killed themselves and selfishly left their families devastated over a simple shot they could have taken 15 minutes out of their day to get for free.

We developed the greatest vaccines in the world. We are the standard. China is going to have to swallow hard and bend over and admit they need our vaccines to get out of their current crises.

That's the thing about these radicalized people, they put themselves and their families at risk on a variety of issues and they just don't care. A man that doesn't think about his family is no man at all in my book. I guess that's why they obsess on making fun of gays and such is that they need to continuously stoke their manliness knowing deep down inside what cowards they are for what they have exposed their own families to because they were too weak to do right by their wife and kids.

 

[ryanbruner]

I don’t personally know anyone who died from Covid. I know women who had significant changes in their menstrual cycles after the shot, and a handful of people who have had heart issues. Could be completely unrelated to the shots.

It is funny how that works

 

[hmt5000]

Does anyone here actually know someone that has died or become seriously ill because of receiving the vaccine, or is it all the same second hand stories that you read on social media? I personally know 10 people that died of Covid prior to the vaccine being available. They were all old contemporaries of mine (I'm 86). I know of no one that has died of Covid once we (the old people) were allowed to get the vaccine. So in my mind, it is/was a great thing.

2 step rule I know 2. A girl I work with had a friend that she cheered with in hs that died shortly after his 2nd shot. A woman I know has a daughter that was a college athlete that just had a heart attack. She never had heart problems her entire life and she was having irregular heartbeat after the first shot. She is currently still being evaluated because her heart rate will spike and slow randomly. She was vaccinated when it first came out and has heart problems every since. Last week she had a severe cardiac event.

 

[hmt5000]

Honestly I got vaccinated....still managed to get covid probably 10+ times which is insane. I would say some of those were the same sickness over a two week period and just not completely healing. It has put me down a few times I will say that. I won't be getting a booster.

With that being said anyone who was above the age of 50 with underlying health issues needs to get the damn vaccine. Covid killed my father and he was very much anti-vax because of the bullshit politicization of the vaccine and the conspiracy theories. My mom was the same way and hearing her cry at his viewing and asking herself why they didn't just get the vaccine was painful as all hell. I will never blame her though.

Again if you are 50+ and/or have underlying issues you are being extremely selfish to everyone who cares about you to try and hold on to dumbass conspiracies about tracking chips and magnetic arms and shit. If you are young and healthy......there's no need to get it at this point and honestly maybe you never should have if you did.

Jesus Christ. Why do you have to always go to weird extremes. Tracking chips and magnets? Really? How about the freaking dr's that said that the spike protein used in the shot would lead to a depressed immune system and an increase in cardiac events? Why isn't that enough? Yea... if you are over 60 and have a suppressed immune system then the math probably works out.

 

[ryanbruner]

Jesus Christ. Why do you have to always go to weird extremes. Tracking chips and magnets? Really? How about the freaking dr's that said that the spike protein used in the shot would lead to a depressed immune system and an increase in cardiac events? Why isn't that enough? Yea... if you are over 60 and have a suppressed immune system then the math probably works out.

I hear ya man. It’s all one big population control plot.

 

[hmt5000]

I hear ya man. It’s all one big population control plot.

Even if not... Pharma never screws up? What about data out of Australia, Britain and Netherlands showing higher death rates among people with more than 2 shots? It seems like that should at least be something we look at instead of just laffing at.... or not.

 

[ryanbruner]

Even if not... Pharma never screws up? What about data out of Australia, Britain and Netherlands showing higher death rates among people with more than 2 shots? It seems like that should at least be something we look at instead of just laffing at.... or not.

Of course they screw up lmao. We’ve screwed up thousands of years worth of medical treatments. You could go to the doctor tomorrow and watch them screw up something. Most of us drink and eat shit that we have no clue will kill us or not. These people aren’t trying to kill their customer base. That’s idiotic and a bad business tactic. I just told you that at the end of the day I probably shouldn’t have taken the shots but guess what? I weighed the risk and the reward and felt like it was better for me at the time to try to minimize the sickness as much as possible. That’s your decision to make.

 

[hmt5000]

Of course they screw up lmao. We’ve screwed up thousands of years worth of medical treatments. You could go to the doctor tomorrow and watch them screw up something. Most of us drink and eat shit that we have no clue will kill us or not. These people aren’t trying to kill their customer base. That’s idiotic and a bad business tactic. I just told you that at the end of the day I probably shouldn’t have taken the shots but guess what? I weighed the risk and the reward and felt like it was better for me at the time to try to minimize the sickness as much as possible. That’s your decision to make.

But if data showed that taking a certain shot increased negative effects including death by 4X... would you defend it? Jesus Christ dude. Playing dumb only works so long and then we kinda have to assume you're not playing.

 

[ryanbruner]

But if data showed that taking a certain shot increased negative effects including death by 4X... would you defend it? Jesus Christ dude. Playing dumb only works so long and then we kinda have to assume you're not playing.

You’re going to read whatever fits your narrative. You’re going to say whatever fits your narrative. I never said anything about the negative effects not being there (reading is not difficult). At no point did I defend it in those posts. I said if you’re over 50 with underlying health issues you should get it and if not then you shouldn’t. Again, reading isn’t difficult.

 

[michaeluk26]

Bro I'm a respiratory therapist and they lied their asses off to us about the vaccine. I mean one after the other.

 

[JumperJack]

I hear ya man. It’s all one big population control plot.

Reductio ad absurdum.

The reality is that something was rushed into use without acceptable precaution and it seems very likely, based on data and news (which is hard to get because the people who promote the vaccine control the news), that there are serious adverse affects.

 

[Bill Cosby]

My wife had Covid, I took zero precautions and didn’t get Covid. I have never had a Covid shot.

Meanwhile, ryanbruner had been “vaccinated” with Covid shots and has had Covid 10+ times. Yet is still recommending Covid shots.

It’s is certainly easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they’ve been fooled.

 

[catlanta33]

I like how there are still people that make baseless claims that the shots would have saved someone's life when it's a proven fact the shots do not prevent anyone from catching or spreading covid.

Covidians are the absolute worst people.

 

[PhattyJ4UK]

Without wading into political stuff, the religious exemption is based on certain religions’ beliefs. For example, Jehova’s Witnesses don’t believe in things like blood transfusions. I would assume they’re also against vaccines, but could be totally wrong. Another argument for not using anything with stem cells is something to do with abortion.

I’m fine with vaccination being a personal choice and it shouldn’t be mandated by the government. However, if a private employer mandates it, either get your shots or dust off your resume. That’s how private businesses work.

I’m double vaxxed and have had two boosters, but nothing since mid-2022. Hasn’t effected me adversely and I’ve been exposed to COVID six times and never caught it, so at leaat for me, the vax seemed to work.

Reading this thread, I guess I’m “woke” for trying to be a good neighbor + a good son in-law to my immunocompromised FIL who was undergoing chemo treatments + has a chronic lung disease and my wife is his primary caretaker.

As an aside, for all the drugs I did in my youth, this vaccine definitely isn’t the worst thing I’ve voluntarily ingested. Not even close, tbh.

Lmfao

No one mentioned woke or any of that bs until you did. You’re not woke for taking a shot. You’re woke for thinking taking a shot makes you a good neighbor, person, citizen or anything. It doesn’t. In fact, thinking that makes you a bad person. You think you’re superior to others. It shows by the statement and your history on the board.

And miss me with the I’ve been exposed exactly 6 times lol. Stop it. Probably been exposed several times more and probably had it once or twice. It just was never something that 99%of healthy people under 50 needed to worry about. Now people like you who guilted others into taking something they had no need to take are responsible for the issues people are having.

 

[JonathanW]

My wife had Covid, I took zero precautions and didn’t get Covid. I have never had a Covid shot.

Meanwhile, ryanbruner had been “vaccinated” with Covid shots and has had Covid 10+ times. Yet is still recommending Covid shots.

It’s is certainly easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they’ve been fooled.

Well there you have it, sample size of 1 (or 2) makes it obvious. HUGE EYE ROLL!

Both sides of any argument can make such anecdotal claims.
And even with larger sample sizes, other cofounding factors need to be considered & taken into account. For example, do those who get Covid vax shots consider themselves immune to getting it (they aren't) and thus put themselves into more risky situations. That is just 1 of many factors.

Personally I view the vaccine as both a way to reduce (but not eliminate) the chances of getting it and thus passing it on to you/others, AND that if you get it then you may have a milder case of it. But as someone mostlly Libertarian, outside of the healthcare setting (which I'm on the fence about), I don't think people should be forced/strongly-coerced into getting it. Like I don't agree with seatbelt laws, even though I think anyone is an idiot for not buckling up (but people have the right to be stupid if they aren't hurting others).

 

[JonathanW]

I like how there are still people that make baseless claims that the shots would have saved someone's life when it's a proven fact the shots do not prevent anyone from catching or spreading covid.

Covidians are the absolute worst people.

I'm not sure views of either side of the debate are "proven fact".

 

[catlanta33]

I'm not sure views of either side of the debate are "proven fact".

You think I'm stating a view vs a fact?

 

[Dore95]

The religious objections that employees asserted were based on the "fetal cell lines" that were used in the development and/or manufacture of the vaccines. But there is a long list of common drugs that also used fetal cell lines in either development or manfacture, and it includes things like aspirin, pepto bismol, tylenol, etc. So one strategy employers came up with to challenge these religious exemption requests was to ask objecting employees to sign forms certifying that they do not use and have no intention of using those other common drugs. But in the end for most employers it was pretty much a waste of time to challenge these objections.

 

[catlanta33]

The religious objections that employees asserted were based on the "fetal cell lines" that were used in the development and/or manufacture of the vaccines. But there is a long list of common drugs that also used fetal cell lines in either development or manfacture, and it includes things like aspirin, pepto bismol, tylenol, etc. So one strategy employers came up with to challenge these religious exemption requests was to ask objecting employees to sign forms certifying that they do not use and have no intention of using those other common drugs. But in the end for most employers it was pretty much a waste of time to challenge these objections.

What a terrible waste of time and a nice example of an employer who DGAF about their employees. That's disgusting to try to out people and dissuade them from using other medications vs obliging them based on their religious beliefs.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

And even with larger sample sizes, other cofounding factors need to be considered & taken into account. For example, do those who get Covid vax shots consider themselves immune to getting it (they aren't) and thus put themselves into more risky situations. That is just 1 of many factors.

You are right that there are many factors...but lets go ahead and shut this example down right now...

People on their 5th booster are the same still wearing masks and getting mad that their book club wants to start doing in person gatherings again...

So no, this is NOT a reason why the more boosted are also the more infected groups.

 

[Dore95]

What a terrible waste of time and a nice example of an employer who DGAF about their employees. That's disgusting to try to out people and dissuade them from using other medications vs obliging them based on their religious beliefs.

It has to be a sincerely held religious belief. Very few religions (Christian Scientists for one I guess) oppose vaccines. So the only mainstream Christian opposition was the "fetal cell lines" connection. I'd wager that most people who made such an objection really cared nothing about fetal cell lines because, as I stated above, they are also linked to common medicines. Most people who made the objections simply did so because they didn't want to take the vaccine.

 

[catlanta33]

It has to be a sincerely held religious belief. Very few religions (Christian Scientists for one I guess) oppose vaccines. So the only mainstream Christian opposition was the "fetal cell lines" connection. I'd wager that most people who made such an objection really cared nothing about fetal cell lines because, as I stated above, they are also linked to common medicines. Most people who made the objections simply did so because they didn't want to take the vaccine.

I don't doubt it. It's still incredibly lame for a company to challenge religious beliefs instead of honoring them.

 

[Girthang]

So, do you have any connection to your neighbor's brother dying because of the shot, or is it just timing? I'm not denying, just asking. My dad died within 2 minutes of eating a steak. I did not blame it on the steak.

I've not heard of any connection to the vaccine and leukemia. I've had leukemia, fortunately I've been in remission for awhile, but the vaccine did not affect that part of my health.

I'm not sure what AE's are, so I'd like you to explain that further.

My question is still the same, does anyone know anyone that was a confirmed death or serious illness confirmed to be caused by a vaccine?

I've not heard of anyone dying within 2 minutes of eating a steak. I'd have to look into it to see if it happened or I would never know.

The mrna treatments lower your platelet levels by 50% with the first shot. It takes approximately 4 weeks for your platelet count to recover. That is when they hit test subjects with another treatment which lowers platelets again by 50%, as should be expected. If the platelet levels have not recovered, they still administer the treatment, and that would drop them to approx 25%. No matter what's normal for anyone (150k-400k is considered normal range), they would be considered thrombocytopenic if their levels reached 25% of normal. It would take that much to happen prior to or during the treatment period to put someone at risk of this.

Once you're diagnosed with thrombocytopenia, you're in the treatment process and very likely to be diagnosed with leukemia. I'll have to finish this up later.....
.

 

[Girthang]

It has to be a sincerely held religious belief. Very few religions (Christian Scientists for one I guess) oppose vaccines. So the only mainstream Christian opposition was the "fetal cell lines" connection. I'd wager that most people who made such an objection really cared nothing about fetal cell lines because, as I stated above, they are also linked to common medicines. Most people who made the objections simply did so because they didn't want to take the vaccine.

Thought police... Spanish inquisition style. Good to know based on your biased generalizations where you stand on things.

The perversion of the freedom of religion is to say someone has to be of a member of a certain church body and that body must hold certain beliefs for anyone to obtain a dependable religious exemption.

Religious exemptions should be based on the faith of the individual, and per the Nuremberg code not be required to refuse any treatment, especially one that is 1. "Experimental," 2. does not give the subject informed consent, 3. is known by the manufacturer to contain potentially or known carcinogenic, pathogenic, or mutagenic ingredients, 4. Is administered forcibly/under duress or threat.

Over 99% on the face of this planet who were given the treatments were not given any kind of informed consent, EVEN THOUGH the FDA knew well in advance of approving them EXACTLY what harm they could cause. 9 pages worth of known possible adverse events were given to the FDA before they approved them. Covid, auto-immune disorders, blood clots, strokes, pericarditis, myocarditis, thrombocytopenia, and death were just a few on the list.

 

[Dore95]

Where I stand is I’m an employment lawyer and was reciting what the law is in this area. The “Nuremberg Code” is not relevant. What is relevant is Title VII and its standards for claiming religious exemptions.

 

[CastleRubric]

Of course they screw up lmao. We’ve screwed up thousands of years worth of medical treatments. You could go to the doctor tomorrow and watch them screw up something. Most of us drink and eat shit that we have no clue will kill us or not. These people aren’t trying to kill their customer base. That’s idiotic and a bad business tactic. I just told you that at the end of the day I probably shouldn’t have taken the shots but guess what? I weighed the risk and the reward and felt like it was better for me at the time to try to minimize the sickness as much as possible. That’s your decision to make.

This wasn't some kind of acceptable frequency of errors that comes from the general practice of medicine

It was unprecedented and systemic

mRNA genetic therapy type shots were estimated to be 10-15 years fm being ready for human use

They've never been used before - there were enormous gaps in understanding what would happen

The spike proteins that your genetic material would be forced to create -- weren't yet clearly understood to be helpful or pathogenic (Harvard published a paper later citing them as damaging to heart muscle)

Identifying and tracking cases of the actual novel coronavirus was based on a methodology that artificially skewed the counts higher than reality -- by including counts for all coronavirus, influenza, pneumonia, pertussis, suspected cases and presumed cases

And death counts were equally bad data
because dual death certificates were allowed - someone who died from a car wreck - who also tested positive for "covid" before -- also counted towards the covid death counts

Test protocols were flawed and useless per CDCs admission - they also admitted to artificially inflating prevalence counts

Cash incentives awarded to schools and hospitals who reported high cases introduced bias and conflict of interest in local reporting

The pharmaceutical manufacturers were absolved of any and all liability stemming fm harm caused by their products - thats awful policy in ANY industry and almost guaranteed less stringent quality controls

And no human trials were performed on this method of vaccination that was a brand new approach to inferring immunity

And the politicians immediately supported strict controls and policies based on fatally flawed data that made it impossible to measure and track the virus that appeared out of nowhere

Open discourse was labeled as radical and a threat - scientific inquiry was suspended and the FDA allowed even more lenient protocols for the dozens of spin off shots that the Pharmaceutical goons cooked up (ie - allowed to continue skipping human trails while also not being required to report on ingredient changes)

Informed consent was impossible to
achieve under those circumstances and CDC didn't even pretend to apply surveillance efforts for those who took the experimental shots

When side effects predictably began to appear there was no context applied to help people understand how badly it was looking compared to a regular season of flu shots -

Variants were announced without proper genetic sequencing in a lab to identify the variant - which means there never was a meaningful follow up shot or "booster" for the
alpha, gamma, dickwad and asshat variants

It was an unprecedented series of deeply flawed decisions based on wildly incoherent and counter-productive methodology that stood on flawed data

And that doesn't touch on the US Govt immediately making themselves exempt fm the whole fiasco



This wasn't the type of mistakes that you allow or plan for - it was unprecedented and cant be compared to ANY public health response Ive ever seen anywhere

Theres more that could be added to the list above - but i am trying to keep it somewhat focused

This wasn't / isn't normal whatsoever

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Could be possible the Common Rule, an offspring of the Nuremberg Code could come into play in some shape or form with the bivalent boosters…

Pushed, approved by CDC and mandated by others - bivalent boosters were required by some (businesses, universities , military) with no data from humans.

W/o human data, someone out there could take a stab and create a class that all who received the booster were human subjects…manipulated w/no possibility of informed consent considering no data.

 

[CastleRubric]

Where I stand is I’m an employment lawyer and was reciting what the law is in this area. The “Nuremberg Code” is not relevant. What is relevant is Title VII and its standards for claiming religious exemptions.

It may not be relevant as active piece of regulatory authority for court decisions

But the historical events that led to the necessity of creating the Nuremburg Code are important enough that we shouldn't lose sight of the inherently rational and universal protective standards cited there

Basically it tells us that we will never again use humans as uninformed, unwilling test subjects -

If people DO agree to such participation - they
should always be afforded the
option to remove themselves fm the experiments

and when harm is caused fm an experimental program -- it will immediately stop whatever experiments are being conducted


Those are pretty universal values that protect Everyone - they were supposed to be part of the spirit of "never again" that arose after the world realized what happened in places like Treblinka , Baden-Baden & Dachau

But - i guess you DO have a point strictly regarding how litigation would apply to the unfolding debacle

Why cite the Nuremberg code as relevant when the mRNA developers were given total legal reprieve and immunity fm their role in harm caused by their products - ?

the law really doesn't apply in any normal way here -

Hopefully i didn't misunderstand your post - i kind of ran with that one when i saw the
NBerg reference ☄️

 

[Girthang]

Could be possible the Common Rule, an offspring of the Nuremberg Code could come into play in some shape or form with the bivalent boosters…

Pushed, approved by CDC and mandated by others - bivalent boosters were required by some (businesses, universities , military) with no data from humans.

W/o human data, someone out there could take a stab and create a class that all who received the booster were human subjects…manipulated w/no possibility of informed consent considering no data.

I think you are on the right track with this line of thinking, and I'll tell you why. There is a caveat in the NCode that gave the orchestrations of this farce and out. An aspect of the Nuremberg code states that an experimental treatment can be given to people (with consent, but not necessarily informed consent) ONLY if the same treatment was given to those administering the treatment without "informed" consent. THIS is what they made sure to do with this whole evil scheme. The manufacturers kept even the doctors and nurses in the dark about what they were given in order to avoid prosecution under the code.

However, NONE of the rules, including the 1986 law and Nuremberg protect those who KNOWINGLY make and administer something that they KNOW does not work AS THEY are telling people it works. The codes and laws DO NOT excuse or protect FRAUD. THE FDA claims they didn't know the side effects and potential adverse events, which is a lie. The cdc, nih, and who along with manufacturers DEFRAUDED THE GLOBE when they said these treatments prevented illness, prevented spread, prevented death due to covid, AND WERE SAFE, when THEY KNEW for a FACT the contrary. They are still telling the SAME lie.