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‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler

Canned Heat

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‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler. ‘Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked Adidas to make this payment to Fenny.’ -Michael Schacter, Jim Gatto’s attorney
 
At what point does the AD step in and do something? You would think enough evidence has been presented to warrant a suspension of Self and Silvio de Sousa pending an internal investigation. I guess the play here is the same as at Duke and UNC, say their is nothing to see here and dare the NCAA to do anything about it.
 
I ventured over to the Kansas board and in a shocking turn of events, a number of their posters are registering genuine awareness, objectivity, and even acceptance. Their consensus seems to be that Adidas paid the players and that the KU coaching staff knew about it. End of story.

I’m impressed. Little Brother fans were in denial for years. Some still are.
 
This isn’t really a bombshell. This is a closing argument. He’s talking about evidence that was introduced during the trial. It’s the rock solid evidence of Self cheating that is the bombshell.

Although the prosecutors are doing their rebuttal right about now and I’m betting they’re going to say “of course the coaches knew” but the coaches are not the university. That will be fun. Prosecutors and defense agreeing that Self is a low down dirty cheater who schemes to break NCAA rules by having third parties pay basketball players.
 
I ventured over to the Kansas board and in a shocking turn of events, a number of their posters are registering genuine awareness, objectivity, and even acceptance. Their consensus seems to be that Adidas paid the players and that the KU coaching staff knew about it. End of story.

I’m impressed. Little Brother fans were in denial for years. Some still are.

There may be some hope for them yet. Awe, bake'em some bread....at least cookies.
 
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This isn’t really a bombshell. This is a closing argument. He’s talking about evidence that was introduced during the trial. It’s the rock solid evidence of Self cheating that is the bombshell.

Although the prosecutors are doing their rebuttal right about now and I’m betting they’re going to say “of course the coaches knew” but the coaches are not the university. That will be fun. Prosecutors and defense agreeing that Self is a low down dirty cheater who schemes to break NCAA rules by having third parties pay basketball players.

I doubt the prosecutors agree; this undermines their case. They’re trying to argue that these shoe companies are defrauding public institutions by covertly paying players, and placing the universities at risk of NCAA sanction. If an agent of the public university, the head coach, is directing the shoe companies’ operatives, then the corruption charge is defeated. The institution is violating NCAA rules, not an unrelated third party at the university’s expense.
 
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I doubt the prosecutors agree; this undermines their case. They’re trying to argue that these shoe companies are defrauding public institutions by covertly paying players, and placing the universities at risk of NCAA sanction. If an agent of the public university, the head coach, is directing the shoe companies’ operatives, then the corruption charge is defeated. The institution is violating NCAA rules, not an unrelated third party at the university’s expense.
I mean if that’s the case then I don’t know what is the point of this trial. There’s all kinds of evidence in the record supporting that the coaches knew. The case is a total epic flop if your characterization is correct. And it could be.
 
I mean if that’s the case then I don’t know what is the point of this trial. There’s all kinds of evidence in the record supporting that the coaches knew. The case is a total epic flop if your characterization is correct. And it could be.

Yeah, at the expense of several universities, some of these Adidas guys are gonna walk. A rare miss for the feds.
 
‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler. ‘Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked Adidas to make this payment to Fenny.’ -Michael Schacter, Jim Gatto’s attorney

Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.
 
Maybe the FBI is a bunch of UK guys wanting to nail the cheaters lol
 
Still crickets at ESPN on this. They have a couple of general articles about the trial, and of course a headlined Calipari article on his comments yesterday that cheaters will still cheat even after this trial (of course they have an article asking Calipari his thoughts on cheaters).
 
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Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.

But yet you made sure to take a quote from an Adidas rep saying Nike cheats too and tried to use it as proof Kentucky is cheating too.

You’d do well as a Louisville fan, considering how f’n ignorant some of those absolute losers are, just like you.
 
Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.

I am just relaying statements from the trial. I have no idea if the Communications between Kansas staff and the Adidas employees will be enough evidence for the NCAA to issue an investigation. However, the Defense is arguing they knew based upon those conversations. We all have the right to make our own inference of what the coaches may or may have not known. My inference is that Self/Townsend knew what was going on but wanted no specifics. That is just my opinion. Is it damning on an NCAA infraction level, maybe not, but the idea that the coaches were involved is reasonable based upon the communication evidence.
 
Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.

Hahahahaha. Nice try. They absolutely presented evidence of it in the form of texts between Self and Gassnola. A factfinder can easily, and probably should, construe those vague references to “help” and “getting a few real guys” to mean an understanding of arranging payments.

If your standard for evidence of knowledge were writ across the legal system, convictions would be nearly impossible. We’d never break down sophisticated criminal enterprises that routinely communicate with intermediaries, code words, and vague references.
 
Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.


:cop: :pray: :pimp:
 
So do some not know what closing arguments are or are we trolling KU fans pretending like that was a new bombshell?
I said something like this in the other thread - this is just a closing statement from the defense. Unfortunately, the defense didn't provide any "bombshell" evidence during the trial that the jury can use to substantiate this closing statement, so truthfully it's just a nothingburger (and that's too bad - had the defense proved Self knew during the trial, we'd be onto something, but they didn't, so this blurb is worthless with regards to the jury's decision).
 
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Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.
Lawyers have latitude in closing arguments to interpret things a certain way, but they absolutely can't make false statements. This is Adidas Executive Jim Gatto saying through his lawyer that Bill Self asked for payments to secure De Sousa. And there is plenty of evidence that the payments were made. So a person directly involved has said Self asked for it to happen, and there is ample evidence that it did happen. NCAA sanctions have been leveled on a lot less. Let Self deny it, and get them both under oath in front of an NCAA sanctions board. I suspect Gatto can prove it easily.
 
I talked to Fennie,” Gassnola wrote.

“We good?” Self texted.

“Always. That’s was light work. Ball is in his court now,” Gassnola replied.

I mean, seriously? By drug deal standards, that’s a slam dunk for a jury to find knowledge of the specific act. Combined with the reference to “Dyondre” and everything else, I’d question the rationality of any finder of fact that didn’t conclude Self had full knowledge.
 
Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.
Since you are using court-of-law standards to define your position...if the defense is found "not guilty", does that "prove" it??
 
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Lawyers have latitude in closing arguments to interpret things a certain way, but they absolutely can't make false statements. This is Adidas Executive Jim Gatto saying through his lawyer that Bill Self asked for payments to secure De Sousa. And there is plenty of evidence that the payments were made. So a person directly involved has said Self asked for it to happen, and there is ample evidence that it did happen. NCAA sanctions have been leveled on a lot less. Let Self deny it, and get them both under oath in front of an NCAA sanctions board. I suspect Gatto can prove it easily.

Unfortunately we disagree. Also, unless you've bridged attorney-client privilege, clearly I have not, you do not know what Gatto did or did not say to his attorney.
 
But yet you made sure to take a quote from an Adidas rep saying Nike cheats too and tried to use it as proof Kentucky is cheating too.

You’d do well as a Louisville fan, considering how f’n ignorant some of those absolute losers are, just like you.

I did not call Kentucky out for cheating. What I posted said the "corruption" is pervasive at the shoe company/agent/handler level. Whether a school actively participates (i.e., is involved in the exchange of money - like Louisville and Arizona), is completely different and nowhere have I pointed any school or coach out for doing so.
 
Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.
LMAO you sound like a guy dating out of his league explaining his GF being seen out with other guys by his sister.
 
Wow, how dumb are these guys? Don't put crap like that on text or email… .ever.
 
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Did they present evidence that they asked for payments, because I don't recall seeing any actual evidence that they did. Of course the lawyer is going to say they knew, it is the crux of the defense. Unfortunately, they didn't present any evidence showing it. Remember, lawyers have great latitude in closing arguments in what they say.

Unfortunately, this is another case of everyone wanting something to be true, which has not been proven. A Nothing-burger, if you will.

Actually, anything an attorney says in opening or closing arguments is supposed to be backed up by evidence presented during the trial. How do I know? I've been a federal agent for the past 28 years and I've been involved in many criminal trials.
 
I ventured over to the Kansas board and in a shocking turn of events, a number of their posters are registering genuine awareness, objectivity, and even acceptance. Their consensus seems to be that Adidas paid the players and that the KU coaching staff knew about it. End of story.

I’m impressed. Little Brother fans were in denial for years. Some still are.

"We already fired everybody, there's nobody left here to punish" seems to be the delusional line many of them are buying into now. The more reasonable are bracing to get reamed, but still salty that UNC skated and Duke will probably skate over Zion. "They'll probably punish Louisville more" was my Cardinal friend's reaction to the Zion story.
 
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"We already fired everybody, there's nobody left here to punish" seems to be the delusional line many of them are buying into now. The more reasonable are bracing to get reamed, but still salty that UNC skated and Duke will probably skate over Zion. "They'll probably punish Louisville more" was my Cardinal friend's reaction to the Zion story.

I don’t think dook is any savvier about this stuff than anybody else, but as a private school it has the unique advantage of being exempt from FOIA requests and corruption probes. Otherwise, their Bagley and Zion-stained dirty laundry would be all over the news like KU’s.
 
Wow, how dumb are these guys? Don't put crap like that on text or email… .ever.

Any coach worth their weight follows this, but Self has been one of the biggest underachievers in college basketball, so I could see him slipping/getting sloppy.

I still don't think there's enough 100-percent proof to get him out, but at the very least, Kurtis Townsend should become a fall guy and get let go.
 
unless you've bridged attorney-client privilege, you do not know what Gatto did or did not say to his attorney.
So, your theory is that in a federal criminal trial, acting as an officer of the court, Gatto's lawyer made up something to tell the jury - under the watchful eye of a federal judge -- that Gatto had not told him? Okay, stick with that. I'd say that's about as deep into the corner as you can get.

By the way, here is some reading material for you to take to the corner: A summary by the court reporter for the Kansas CIty Star that puts the lawyer's statement in context with EVIDENCE from the trial:

"Court testimony from last week shows that on Aug. 9. 2017, Gassnola texted KU assistant coach Kurtis Townsend about the guardian, Fenny Falmagne. Gassnola told Townsend, “Hit me when you can,” and Townsend replied, “Coach Self just talked to Fenny. Let me know how it goes.”


Gassnola also texted Self, KU’s head basketball coach, saying he talked with Falmagne. Self asked “we good” over text, and Gassnola replied “always,” saying this was light work and the ball was in Falmagne’s court now.


That same day, Gassnola texted Self to call him when he had five minutes and he was alone. The two had a five-minute, six-second phone conversation.


De Sousa committed to Kansas on Aug. 30, 2017. Self had a five-minute phone conversation with Gatto a day later, during a time the FBI was wiretapping Gatto, but the conversation was not recorded because of a “technical issue.”


“Kansas’ head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio De Sousa’s handler,” Schachter said Thursday. “Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked for this payment to be made to Fenny.
 
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