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With extra SEC money, will UK build on campus basketball arena?

catben

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Sep 13, 2003
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With 30 million extra this year and more to come each year down the road, is the time now to leave Rupp?
 
My guess is a new baseball stadium first. If the city and university continue to be miles apart on renovating Rupp or building a new off campus arena, I can see UK starting to seriously consider it in the not to distant future.
 
My guess is a new baseball stadium first. If the city and university continue to be miles apart on renovating Rupp or building a new off campus arena, I can see UK starting to seriously consider it in the not to distant future.

I think we'll see a new basketball arena while Calipari is here, but you probably can't pick a time-frame for it. I can't imagine it will be started in the next 4 years, but it's a possibility.
Some people need to consider that the $32 million would be added onto the amount of money UK makes from all these final fours and stuff also. Not to mention, the university has quite a bit in the bank. Certainly enough to make a new arena on campus.
 
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With 30 million extra this year and more to come each year down the road, is the time now to leave Rupp?

Won't happen and thank goodness:

1. UK is better served to spend the money to upgrade faculty, academic facilities and dorms.

2. Lexington can't support two mega arenas.

3. Game day atmosphere. On-campus facility has no hotels, restaurants, bars, etc. on site. Drive, park, watch game, drive home (or someplace else). Totally boring unless you enjoy a sub-zero tailgate experience in a frozen tundra parking lot.

4. We already have an iconic facility that the whole world (except some UK fans) thinks is wonderful.

Replace Big Bertha with a state of the art audio system and install decent video boards and call it a day.
 
Those saying the parking situation is sved with Commonwealth are incorrect. Students park there during the week.
 
Stretch:
1. ECHO THAT!
2. UK basketball is not because of Lexington, KY.
3. Real UK fans sleep in their cars, if they have to, the night before a game.
4. BBN is the facility.

But still, some complain about the sound we hear from a speaker system. Amazing!
 
I am for a few updates at Rupp.
I agree that we need to simply update Rupp which BTW is an excellent, excellent place to watch a ball game. Simply change Big Bertha to a modern video board and sound system and be down with it.. The City of Lexington should not use UK and our credit to build a whole new convention center . Also they should take the YUM! center arrangement with UL and change the names to UK and Ul and give us the same arrangement the Cards have. It must be a fair arrangement . Otherwise the Cards and Jefferson County would never have agreed to it.
 
Renovate Rupp! It has great bones, a great location and provides pre and post game atmosphere that is now part of the experience. I attended UK when the Coliseum was our home court - it was a great place to watch a game - but things change and needs change. The basic proposal, just for Rupp - not the convention center - seemed awesome to me. Get Rupp Renovated and then let the city worry about the convention center. If it is warranted - then the city can make it happen.

By the way - the $30 million plus was all not new or unexpected money from the past SEC revenues - only $10 million. Big difference! Rupp will be renovated when Coach Cal decides it is time to have it renovated - as soon as he gets on board it WILL happen.

Go Big Blue!
 
Those saying the parking situation is sved with Commonwealth are incorrect. Students park there during the week.
Yep. Huge difference between emptying it seven Saturdays a year versus twenty Saturdays and Tuesdays of Wednesdays
 
Won't happen and thank goodness:

1. UK is better served to spend the money to upgrade faculty, academic facilities and dorms.

4. We already have an iconic facility that the whole world (except some UK fans) thinks is wonderful.

Replace Big Bertha with a state of the art audio system and install decent video boards and call it a day.

On point 1 - you are 100% correct and Eli has the exact same mindset.

On point 4 - Rupp is a complete dump. No one ourside of Lexington thinks Rupp is wonderful or envious of that outdated 1970's facility.
 
With 30 million extra this year and more to come each year down the road, is the time now to leave Rupp?
Our firm has had a peripheral role in advising UK on this, so I can only talk about the broad issues that are already publicly known. An on campus basketball arena would be a great move for UK. It's the best deal UK could cut, by far, if UK lived in a vacuum. The costs, which some posters lament here, would actually be recovered in a reasonable amount of time through sponsorships and direct revenues. After that, future revenues, minus maintenance expenses, would become almost pure profit. UK would completely control and collect revenues from parking and concessions, which is not true now at Rupp Arena. This is a lot of revenue, directly generated by our basketball program, that UK concedes to the city of Lexington. But UK does not live in a vacuum. UK is the biggest and single most important business entity in Fayette County. Rupp Arena and UK basketball are the key to economic revitalization of downtown Lexington. If UK pulled its basketball program out of Rupp Arena, the economic consequences for many downtown businesses would be disastrous. I will not discuss individual downtown businesses by name. But if you owned a downtown hotel or restaurant, you would have nightmares every night of your life about the possibility of UK pulling its basketball program out of Rupp Arena. UK cannot turn its back on its responsibilities as the largest corporate citizen in Lexington's business and economic community. If the central Kentucky economy was stronger, this might be less of a problem. But as long as Lexington's economy subsists just above the level of recession, as it has for years now, UK cannot pull its basketball business out of downtown. When the city proposed the Rupp Arena renovation several years, UK's tepid response showed that UK knows it is a political captive at Rupp Arena for now. But the on campus basketball arena will happen eventually. It must happen, because the favorable numbers from UK's point of view will force it to happen. It is worth mentioning here, although many of our fans still badly misunderstand the horizons and ambitions of UK's administration, that this athletics director and this Board clearly get the advantages of corporate sponsorship of an on campus basketball arena, just as clearly as they understand the reasons for a $150 million renovation of their on campus football facilities. Anyone who doesn't think so is not informed. If someone posts a comment that says UK's administration doesn't want success in its athletics programs, or doesn't understand the investments required for success, they are admitting that they are not informed.
 
Won't happen and thank goodness:

1. UK is better served to spend the money to upgrade faculty, academic facilities and dorms.

2. Lexington can't support two mega arenas.

3. Game day atmosphere. On-campus facility has no hotels, restaurants, bars, etc. on site. Drive, park, watch game, drive home (or someplace else). Totally boring unless you enjoy a sub-zero tailgate experience in a frozen tundra parking lot.

4. We already have an iconic facility that the whole world (except some UK fans) thinks is wonderful.

Replace Big Bertha with a state of the art audio system and install decent video boards and call it a day.

1. Agree completely.
2. I think the plan to reconfigure Rupp has been on the books for some time. Seating would be greatly reduced (think 10-12,000) and commercial/office space would replace many existing seats.
3. Excellent point and one often overlooked by the 'we want an NBA arena' crowd'.
4. Couldn't agree more. Rupp does need a renovation and Big Bertha, video/ribbon boards would be a minimal investment that would change the whole look of the historic arena.

I think the City of Lex. is refusing to even consider the most basic of renovations out of spite. They want UK to guarantee to be in the building for some unreasonably long period of time. UK wants to have options...and who can blame them? So, it's a Mexican standoff.
It will take Cal or someone seriously "plugged-in" to thaw the freeze.
 
Well, its past time to have all of this decided. Rupp is in need of updates, but at what cost to both the city and UK?

The Atlanta Falcons didn't need a new stadium, but if they wanted another Super Bowl, guess what it took? Absolutely nothing wrong with the Ga. Dome, which held a Final Four in '13. This also impacted the SEC Tournament for the next decade along with probably any significant basketball games in this state. All because one owner wanted complete control. BTW, Atlanta is bidding on future Final 4s for the new Falcons stadium.

So if UK wants complete control, which would be the deal that Louisville has, then an arena could be in the future. But is it necessary? Probably not in the near term, and probably not during Cal's time here.

Saying that, say the city approved renovations at Rupp, but would impact one season of playing at Rupp, where would you play the games? Because that much renovation is needed at Rupp to get it past today's standards. Clemson is going through this next year for the 2nd time in their recent history because of renovations at Littlejohn.

If UK doesn't want to have home date issues, their best solution is an arena with a new address; like 1 Calipari Way. Then they could continue to play @Rupp, and then perhaps another tenant could come to Rupp under a renovation for more modern events (minor league football, exhibition NBA basketball, etc).
Would the fans support Rupp with that option going forward if that scenario played out?
 
You can blame UL and the Yum center for the reason Rupp remains untouched. The state simply right now is not going provide money. Since Rupp is owned and operated by the city, they are at odds with UK over paying for the remodel. Who pays for what, how the costs are divided, and how UK benefits.

Without being a die hard you can see why this stuff exists. It isn't like Rupp is costing UK recruits, or revenue. Yes, it's outdated and needs updating but Lexington is a small town. A Rupp remodel won't bring in bigger concerts, or more events. UK can cry to the moon and threaten to move but logistically, it isn't happeing any time soon. Build an on campus arena and it sits empty 7 months out of the year. Can UK afford that? Not likely.
 
Our firm has had a peripheral role in advising UK on this, so I can only talk about the broad issues that are already publicly known. An on campus basketball arena would be a great move for UK. It's the best deal UK could cut, by far, if UK lived in a vacuum. The costs, which some posters lament here, would actually be recovered in a reasonable amount of time through sponsorships and direct revenues. After that, future revenues, minus maintenance expenses, would become almost pure profit. UK would completely control and collect revenues from parking and concessions, which is not true now at Rupp Arena. This is a lot of revenue, directly generated by our basketball program, that UK concedes to the city of Lexington. But UK does not live in a vacuum. UK is the biggest and single most important business entity in Fayette County. Rupp Arena and UK basketball are the key to economic revitalization of downtown Lexington. If UK pulled its basketball program out of Rupp Arena, the economic consequences for many downtown businesses would be disastrous. I will not discuss individual downtown businesses by name. But if you owned a downtown hotel or restaurant, you would have nightmares every night of your life about the possibility of UK pulling its basketball program out of Rupp Arena. UK cannot turn its back on its responsibilities as the largest corporate citizen in Lexington's business and economic community. If the central Kentucky economy was stronger, this might be less of a problem. But as long as Lexington's economy subsists just above the level of recession, as it has for years now, UK cannot pull its basketball business out of downtown. When the city proposed the Rupp Arena renovation several years, UK's tepid response showed that UK knows it is a political captive at Rupp Arena for now. But the on campus basketball arena will happen eventually. It must happen, because the favorable numbers from UK's point of view will force it to happen. It is worth mentioning here, although many of our fans still badly misunderstand the horizons and ambitions of UK's administration, that this athletics director and this Board clearly get the advantages of corporate sponsorship of an on campus basketball arena, just as clearly as they understand the reasons for a $150 million renovation of their on campus football facilities. Anyone who doesn't think so is not informed. If someone posts a comment that says UK's administration doesn't want success in its athletics programs, or doesn't understand the investments required for success, they are admitting that they are not informed.

A second arena in Lexington would be a disaster for both arenas. It takes much more than full game days and corporate sponsorships to pay for $300-$400 million arenas...they need to be utilized 250-300 days/year to operate in the black. UL wouldn't make nearly what they get out of Yum if they owned the building because they would then have to pay for the maintenance of the place. Another reason for it's (Yum) financial problems are the number of dates it is used for low revenue events like women's basketball and volleyball. Lexington is never going to attract the number of top concerts and shows needed to make a new 20K+ arena economically feasible...and if it is on campus are they going to allow alcohol sales beyond club/suite areas as in CWS?
As some others have said you'd also lose the unique atmosphere of Lexington Center having somewhere for fans to mingle pre/post game. That is what makes Rupp special.
As for those who think that Rupp is "a dump"...Cameron is a dump...Phog Allen is a dump...there are many iconic arenas that are dumps. So what? Is that keeping players from coming here? The locker rooms aren't dumps. The floor isn't a dump...

UK needs to work something out with the city of Lexington to modernize Rupp the best they can and be beneficial to both parties.
 
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A second arena in Lexington would be a disaster for both arenas. It takes much more than full game days and corporate sponsorships to pay for $300-$400 million arenas...they need to be utilized 250-300 days/year to operate in the black. UL wouldn't make nearly what they get out of Yum if they owned the building because they would then have to pay for the maintenance of the place. Another reason for it's (Yum) financial problems are the number of dates it is used for low revenue events like women's basketball and volleyball. Lexington is never going to attract the number of top concerts and shows needed to make a new 20K+ arena economically feasible...and if it is on campus are they going to allow alcohol sales beyond club/suite areas as in CWS?
As some others have said you'd also lose the unique atmosphere of Lexington Center having somewhere for fans to mingle pre/post game. That is what makes Rupp special.
As for those who think that Rupp is "a dump"...Cameron is a dump...Phog Allen is a dump...there are many iconic arenas that are dumps. So what? Is that keeping players from coming here? The locker rooms aren't dumps. The floor isn't a dump...

UK needs to work something out with the city of Lexington to modernize Rupp the best they can and be beneficial to both parties.
A lot of falsehoods here. There isn't much left to work out between UK and the city in terms of the actual modernization process, because the outlines of the process were worked out several years ago by a task force. It has not moved forward because of issues that I cannot get into, but these can be partially identified through an understanding of publicly available information, and partially by drawing logical conclusions from that information that are fairly obvious. All I can say is that city leaders have not always worked cooperatively enough with UK and recognized UK's legitimate interests and leverage in the matter. Overlaid with that, local and statewide economic issues are making a solution more difficult. But whether you believe this or not, Rupp Arena is an obsolete facility from the standpoint of UK's needs. Not a dump, just functionally obsolete. It can be renovated, but it will never serve UK's needs as well as a modern on campus facility would serve them. While it is true that an on campus arena would hurt the downtown economy and probably devastate Rupp Arena for the future, it would succeed strictly from the point of view of UK's interests. The financial angle will work well for UK, but not for the city. The situations in Louisville and Lexington are completely different, in every respect. And Lexington is a larger community than Bloomington or Lawrence. This matter requires a Lexington solution, with Frankfort's blessing. It should not be compared to other communities or other schools' problems.
 
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Only take it if Barnhart can get the same sweet and shady arena deal that Jurich got with the YUM!

Fair is fair. Or unfair is unfair, in this instance.
 
A lot of falsehoods here. There isn't much left to work out between UK and the city in terms of the actual modernization process, because the outlines of the process were worked out several years ago by a task force. It has not moved forward because of issues that I cannot get into, but these can be partially identified through an understanding of publicly available information, and partially by drawing logical conclusions from that information that are fairly obvious. All I can say is that city leaders have not always worked cooperatively enough with UK and recognized UK's legitimate interests and leverage in the matter. Overlaid with that, local and statewide economic issues are making a solution more difficult. But whether you believe this or not, Rupp Arena is an obsolete facility from the standpoint of UK's needs. Not a dump, just functionally obsolete. It can be renovated, but it will never serve UK's needs as well as a modern on campus facility would serve them. While it is true that an on campus arena would hurt the downtown economy and probably devastate Rupp Arena for the future, it would succeed strictly from the point of view of UK's interests. The financial angle will work well for UK, but not for the city. The situations in Louisville and Lexington are completely different, in every respect. And Lexington is a larger community than Bloomington or Lawrence. This matter requires a Lexington solution, with Frankfort's blessing. It should not be compared to other communities or other schools' problems.
What are the "falsehoods"?
Meeting physical needs and making economic sense are two different things. Arenas in many larger cities than Lexington struggle economically. If you're trying to sell that the economics of Lexington are different than those in Louisville, Nashville, Columbus then "your firm" must be one of those that comes up with the numbers like those that said that Yum would operate in the black and wouldn't cost taxpayers any money.
 
A lot of falsehoods here. There isn't much left to work out between UK and the city in terms of the actual modernization process, because the outlines of the process were worked out several years ago by a task force. It has not moved forward because of issues that I cannot get into, but these can be partially identified through an understanding of publicly available information, and partially by drawing logical conclusions from that information that are fairly obvious. All I can say is that city leaders have not always worked cooperatively enough with UK and recognized UK's legitimate interests and leverage in the matter. Overlaid with that, local and statewide economic issues are making a solution more difficult. But whether you believe this or not, Rupp Arena is an obsolete facility from the standpoint of UK's needs. Not a dump, just functionally obsolete. It can be renovated, but it will never serve UK's needs as well as a modern on campus facility would serve them. While it is true that an on campus arena would hurt the downtown economy and probably devastate Rupp Arena for the future, it would succeed strictly from the point of view of UK's interests. The financial angle will work well for UK, but not for the city. The situations in Louisville and Lexington are completely different, in every respect. And Lexington is a larger community than Bloomington or Lawrence. This matter requires a Lexington solution, with Frankfort's blessing. It should not be compared to other communities or other schools' problems.

I agree with most that you have said. I have always said that while I am not sure that an on-campus facility will eventually happen, I do think that it makes economic sense. Parking, and concessions revenue, coupled with not paying rent, is a lot of money. Then you add into it the revenue from luxury suites, naming rights, and other advertising, and I think you can easily pay for it. Once you add playing men's and women's tournament games and a few concerts here and there, and it makes even more sense. As far as why the project of the renovation of Rupp has not moved forward is obvious. Too many people on Metro's end have wanted to publicly speak about the project without first consulting the university. They need to have one person make public comments, and only after they have first discussed it with UK, since they are the ones that are going to make or break the project. You are correct in that Rupp Arena is the lifeblood of the local economy. Because of this, Metro gov't should get their head out of their rectum, while they still can. Once UK decides to move forward, because of a lack of cooperation from Metro, it will be too late.
 
I don't have an opinion about whether or not U.K. should build an on-campus basketball arena. If it is assumed that U.K. should -- sooner or later -- build an on-campus basketball arena, I don't have an opinion about whether it should be sooner or later.

But I do hold the opinion that if and when U.K. were to build an on-campus basketball arena it should be named "Rupp Arena." If and when ... the story line should be that "Rupp Arena has been moved to the U.K. campus."

Just MHO, of course.
 
Lex and UK will come to terms on Rupp and it will be renovated. Look for the Cats to be playing there for a long time. The cost of a new on campus facility is cost prohibitive for the university to bear itself.
 
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I think the real issue is still space. Those upper deck seats are hard and narrow, and your knees press into the back of the person sitting in front of you. We're a fan base that, were there more (comfortable) seats for the same price or cheaper (which could be possible with a larger arena), we could have 35,000-40,000 attendance for every game.
 
Interesting to read some of those old posts about how Lexington Center provides such a unique pre game atmosphere and gathering area for UK fans. I have always agreed with that and now the city is preparing to gut the Center and have it as an outdoor area which makes no sense seeing that the busiest time of the year at Rupp with the biggest crowds is in the colder winter months. Can't understand the thinking behind this plan.
 
Interesting to read some of those old posts about how Lexington Center provides such a unique pre game atmosphere and gathering area for UK fans. I have always agreed with that and now the city is preparing to gut the Center and have it as an outdoor area which makes no sense seeing that the busiest time of the year at Rupp with the biggest crowds is in the colder winter months. Can't understand the thinking behind this plan.

Yeah that really doesn't make any sense at all.
 
With 30 million extra this year and more to come each year down the road, is the time now to leave Rupp?
An on campus arena would ultimately be good for UK, but bad for the city of Lexington. As recently as a year ago, the option of building an on campus basketball arena was very much alive. The cost would be significant, but NOT prohibitive. UK's administration is very aware of how quickly financial liabilities of such a capital project would be retired. They could retire the debt in less than a decade. Thereafter, nearly all concessions, parking, advertising revenue would flow directly to UK. That is obviously not the case at RA, which is owned by the city of Lexington, But there are important state and local political considerations. In the last year, UK has finally reached tentative agreements with the city that should keep Kentucky basketball at RA for the foreseeable future. Unless there is a late breakdown in implementing these tentative agreements, there will not be an on campus basketball arena in the foreseeable future.
 
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An on campus arena would ultimately be good for UK, but bad for the city of Lexington. As recently as a year ago, the option of building an on campus basketball arena was very much alive. The cost would be significant, but NOT prohibitive. UK's administration is very aware of how quickly financial liabilities of such a capital project would be retired. They could retire the debt in less than a decade. Thereafter, nearly all concessions, parking, advertising revenue would flow directly to UK. That is obviously not the case at RA, which is owned by the city of Lexington, But there are important state and local political considerations. In the last year, UK has finally reached agreements with the city that should keep Kentucky basketball at RA for the foreseeable future. Unless there is a late breakdown in implementing these agreements, there will not be an on campus basketball arena in the foreseeable future.

You are very correct. The recent agreements would seem to have locked UK into Rupp for years to come. Just hope some of the Rupp renovations are fan friendly unlike the gutting of the Center I mentioned above. Fans will still probably try to arrive early for games but where will they go for pre game on colld days and nights? Local restaurants and bars won't be sufficient and are too expensive for the average fans.
 
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