Why does James Harden seem to play below expectations in playoffs?

[gamecockcat]

I think Harden is a terrific player. Personally, I don't like his style as it seems like his most effective play is a semi-flop to draw a foul. He obviously is very talented and has at least seemed to try harder this year in spurts on defense - a huge knock against him last year when he just didn't care at all to try. A legit All-Star and well deserving of MVP consideration. Just because I don't like his style doesn't mean it isn't effective - I get it.

But, since he's been the MAN with Houston, he has definitely disappointed in the playoffs. He's had great games (like the 45 he dropped the other night) but, overall, has not performed up to expectations. Last night, shot poorly and committed an all-time playoff record of 13 turnovers (breaking his previous record, btw). Not his only 'bad' game in this series, either. Was really bad last year against the Blazers when Houston lost in 1st round. I could name other instances. Why?

I have some thoughts:
1. Playoff basketball is called differently and he doesn't get near as many free throws (he MADE more FTs in the regular season than the 2nd most player attempted, IIRC)
2. Ability for other team to focus on his weaknesses unlike regular season when you may see him several months apart
3. Doesn't react well to playoff pressure (hard to fathom this one as his teams have been in the playoffs a bunch so he should be used to it)
4. Streaky player to begin with and, in the playoffs, this attribute gets magnified

BTW, I've never seen a PF play smaller or more tentative than Terrence Jones did in this series for all but about 10 minutes of his time on the court. Could not have looked more uncomfortable - blew my mind.

 

[KA4Prez]

Only scored 27.2 PPG, shot over 91% from the line and took less than 18 shots a game. LeBron is shooting 42% in the playoffs yet he's on his way to playoff MVP if the Cavs win it.

Harden's problem is he got no help. Dwight Howard missed 97 free throws in 17 playoff games.

 

[Fancatstik]

I think it takes a lot of effort to guard him and during the regular season the NBA doesn't play much defense but during the playoffs they step it up defensively which takes away a lot of his game.

 

[wcc31]

Besides last night, I thought he played pretty well. Plus, beating the Clippers was pretty impressive. The Warriors were the better team.

 

[MWes11]

Only scored 27.2 PPG, shot over 91% from the line and took less than 18 shots a game. LeBron is shooting 42% in the playoffs yet he's on his way to playoff MVP if the Cavs win it.

Harden's problem is he got no help. Dwight Howard missed 97 free throws in 17 playoff games.

Men lie, Women lie, Number don't lie.

 

[argubs2]

Dwight Howard is terrible so that doesn't help. For all of his physical talent, he lacks just as much if not more in mental fortitude and tenacity.

They never seemed like a cohesive unit, which makes sense with the roster they have. They bitched at each other after every blown play. Howard being the most vocal, of course.

I like McHale as a coach but that roster is flat out suspect. They beat a 2003 / 2004 All-Star team in Dallas and then had to go to 7 with a poopy LAC team. They never had a shot vs. GS.

 

[ThroughBlue]

Did he have 45 the other night?

 

[argubs2]

And yeah, to answer the OP.......no.

He played great save for the garbage game last night. Harden is a beast but is going to struggle to win in the playoffs without other guys who will kill to win.

 

[3rex]

And yeah, to answer the OP.......no.

He played great save for the garbage game last night. Harden is a beast but is going to struggle to win in the playoffs without other guys who will kill to win.

Uhhh no...as in no he didn't "play great save for the garbage game last night."

He was 3-16 from the field & 1-5 from 3's in game 3.

 

[argubs2]

BTW, I've never seen a PF play smaller or more tentative than Terrence Jones did in this series for all but about 10 minutes of his time on the court. Could not have looked more uncomfortable - blew my mind.

I also don't agree with that. I think TJ faired pretty well the entire playoffs and had clearly earned McHale's trust.

 

[wentzel25]

No team will ever win a title while rostering Josh Smith

 

[maverick1]

Was really bad last year against the Blazers when Houston lost in 1st round. I could name other instances. Why?

It's his beard, obviously. He starts every season cleanly-shaven, but by the time April-May roll around that sucker is something a radical imam would be proud of.

The excess weight of the lenghtened follicles acts as a negative cantilever which puts increased stress on his neck muscles, primarily the trapezius and sternocleidomastiod. This in turn results in an abnormal, albeit subtle, postural adjustment which throws his balance off -- hence his increased incidence of falling down. If you notice, Harden hardly ever spends time on the floor from October-March.

 

[UK90]

Only scored 27.2 PPG, shot over 91% from the line and took less than 18 shots a game. LeBron is shooting 42% in the playoffs yet he's on his way to playoff MVP if the Cavs win it.

Harden's problem is he got no help. Dwight Howard missed 97 free throws in 17 playoff games.

This. Gimme a break, OP. In these playoffs Harden averaged 27.2 ppg, 7.5 assists, 5.7 rebounds, carried his team to their best playoff run in two decades, including winning a stirring comeback from 3-1 behind series, and did so while facing constant double teams with some of the league's very best defenders like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green constantly draped all over him.

Yet now, after carrying his team all the way to the conf Finals, we're gonna bash him for coming up short against the best team in the league? Spare me.

 

[shaudyshaud1]

No team will ever win a title while rostering Josh Smith

Which is funny since Josh Smith is a big reason they got past the Clippers

 

[gossie21]

I have a hard time laying the blame for losing the series on James Harden. Why not give him some credit for carrying the Rockets to this point? Golden State is a really really good team, the best team all season in fact. James played great most of the playoffs. He had a few bad games, but he also had some monster games too.

They need to jettison Josh Smith and just develop the young talent on their roster. They are set up really well right now to contend for the next 5 years for a title.

 

[argubs2]

This. Gimme a break, OP. In these playoffs Harden averaged 27.2 ppg, 7.5 assists, 5.7 rebounds, carried his team to their best playoff run in two decades, including winning a stirring comeback from 3-1 behind series, and did so while facing constant double teams with some of the league's very best defenders like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green constantly draped all over him.

Yet now, after carrying his team all the way to the conf Finals, we're gonna bash him for coming up short against the best team in the league? Spare me. This is a silly thread.

BUT HE HAD BAD GAMES IN 3 AND 5. GOD YOU'RE DUMB

- 3rex

 

[LineSkiCat]

For starters the game is called differently in the playoffs. Harden has struggled EVERY playoffs getting to the line. They just let more contact by and he's unable to draw the fouls in the playoffs that he gets in the regular season.

So right off the bat, he can't play the game quite like he's used to. Injuries to the starting PG and starting PF (DoMo took over for Tjones, who was also injured most of the season) don't help. So Harden not only has to guard guys like Curry, Thompson, CP3 at times, but then HE draws THEIR best defender... and this goes on for 35 minutes a game.

But, he had an awful game yesterday. He kept over dribbling and many of his passes were just lazy. It wasn't just this game, either. It was in earlier games against LAC. Still put the Rockets struggles on their awful injury issues they had to endure all season.

 

[argubs2]

.....and Dwight Howard being a vuhchina.

 

[3rex]

BUT HE HAD BAD GAMES IN 3 AND 5. GOD YOU'RE DUMB

- 3rex

What an idiot.

I simply responded to your comment that he played great in every game except game 5. I didn't start the thread.

You were wrong. Get over it.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Harden played great, with the exception of the last game. Im not even a fan. But I respect how he played.

Josh Smith is awful. He had 1 timely good game that helped them win the Clippers series, but in general he plays losing basketball. He plays awful off the ball defense - he left Steph wide open on several switches. He takes WAY too many shots, especially perimeter jump shots. And he cant hit FTs at all.

Dwight Howard is overrated at this point in his career. Good defensively and on the boards, but zero offensive skill. Even more putrid when shooting FTs.

Jason Terry is solid, but old. Not really a starter on most good NBA teams.

Harden, Ariza, and Jones are a solid core. Howard is decent, but is now a poor mans DeAndre Jordan. Id cut Smith loose, and try to trade Howard for any above average draft pick/interior player.

 

[KA4Prez]

Harden got to the line more in the playoffs than he did the regular season. 10.5 FTA (playoffs) vs 10.2 FTA (regular season). He got his normal calls. He made his normal FT's. He hit just about his season averages in every facet. He was voted in the top 5 of the MVP race. To blame him in any way, shape or form for their only making he WCF is basically blaming him for not being Steph Curry or LeBron Jones. He won't ever be either one.

Harden is to blame just as much as Anthony Davis is to blame for the Pelicans not even winning a playoff game.

Lets face it. Corey Brewer, Josh Smith, Trevor Ariza and Terrence Jones all played solid. The Rockets missed Montejunas and Beverley. Howard was really the only one who played under his typical contribution and potential during the playoffs, and even moreso, just seemed to be more of a negative than positive influence. He's the guy making 20M+...and deserves the blame if anyone does. However, Golden State was clearly better, so no shame in losing to them.

 

[wentzel25]

Josh Smith is awful. He had 1 timely good game that helped them win the Clippers series, but in general he plays losing basketball. He plays awful off the ball defense - he left Steph wide open on several switches. He takes WAY too many shots, especially perimeter jump shots. And he cant hit FTs at all.

Thank you, +1

 

[LineSkiCat]

If you're going to have 2 max contract guys, which will hamstring what you can do with the rest of the roster, those guys better be solid leaders or at worst case scenario, one of them has to take the reigns. That is the problem with Harden and Howard. they are skilled. Their abilities certainly warrant $20 million a year. But what are they doing for the rest of the team? At the start of the season they basically removed themselves from the rest of the team, and made somewhat of a divided locker room. If you're getting that much money, you need to be more than just a stat sheet if you want to win the title.

And with McHale being a ho-hum coach (All of his mic'ed up segments felt way to relaxed for being in a do-or-die game), I just don't see that trio ever winning a title.

 

[gamecockcat]

I agree with the Dwight Howard take, for sure. He's a big old crybaby who hasn't improved his game much since he's been in the league. Inexcusable to his < 50% of FTs (Josh Smith, too).

But, Harden only shot 38% from the field against the Clippers and only 33% from 3 against them so don't give me crap about him playing great against the LAC. He didn't. His numbers against GS were in line with his regular season numbers so he wasn't awful overall. Just wasn't consistent as he had been for much of the regular season. Of course he was the reason they went that far. I didn't lay the blame at his feet - he clearly is their best player. Just wondering why he seems to underperform in the playoffs (look at last year vs. Blazers - really poor). Hard to praise a guy who committed 13 TOs last night.

As for TJ, he averaged >21 minutes/game against GS and scored 7 PPG and 3.4 RPG. Not exactly standout numbers. Last night, 16.5 minutes, 1 point, ZERO rebounds. I'm sorry, he played soft the entire series. Played >>>> vs. LAC for some reason.

 

[fatguy87]

The Rockets biggest sin is being in the Western Conference.

 

[Big_Blue79]

At the start of the season they basically removed themselves from the rest of the team, and made somewhat of a divided locker room. If you're getting that much money, you need to be more than just a stat sheet if you want to win the title.

What does that even mean, Skip?

Harden played fine in the playoffs. He was unbelievable at times, even. Yeah, he had some duds, but the match-up against Golden State is about the worst imaginable for him. They have legions of wing defenders who can guard Harden - Thompson (very good), Iggy (very good), Livingston (good), even Curry (decent, gambles) can do well in stretches. They switch aggressively, and they have guys who can stay with him on switches for short periods of time - Green (elite) and Barnes (okay). The Warriors are practically built to defend Harden. Don't forget they also have Bruisin' Bogut the Human Subtle Fouling Machine in the middle, who routinely rates well in advanced defensive metrics (FG% at the rim, RPM, etc...).

The Rockets were a 2 seed and in the Western Conference Finals. That's pretty impressive, and there's a big gap between winning the title (one team) and crapping the bed (according to half of RR, everyone else).

And can we be done with the "you can't win with X guy in the playoffs" already? It's such a dumb argument. It was dumb in 1989 (Jordan), 2010 (Lebron), 2007 (Dirk), and every other time it was mentioned. And it's dumb if anyone brought it up about the Warriors this year - Barkley, Phil Jackson, probably half of Rupps Rafters. Unless you're Colin Cowherd and you have 3 hours of airtime to fill with just you talking, why bring up stupid arguments?

 

[LineSkiCat]

It means when you start the season saying "Dwight (Howard) and I are the cornerstones of the Rockets, The rest of the guys are role players or pieces that complete our team.", then you're probably not great at being a leader or harboring a winning environment. Only a select few players in NBA History can win the title on their own, and while Harden/Howard have title-worthy abilities, they can't do it on their own.

Harden turned it over more times than FGA's. Howard picked up a dumb technical which would have kept him out of game 6. They spent a lot of these final games pouting and jarring with the other team. Got to be more of a leader than that.

 

[LineSkiCat]

And let's not forget that the Rockets were like 1.5 games out of being the 7th seed, and they were real close to falling to that position. It also took a monumental collapse from LAC, who still won 2 games without CP3, for the Rockets to get to GSW.

Could this team go back to the WCF as a #2 seed? Sure. But they could just as easily wind up as a 6 seed next year getting bounced in the first round. I'm not willing to look at Houston, the team I root for mind you, and say "Eh, we're fine for next year, no changes need to be made" just because the end result was the #2 seed/WC runner up. The story is deeper than that.

 

[Big_Blue79]

You're right, they can't do it on their own. They need "role players or pieces that complete our team." Was Harden wrong? I don't think so. And Harden balled out pretty much all year trying to help out his team. I hope you're not arguing he was just doing it for the PER.

Also, these are all just copycat arguments. The "stat sheet" and "can't do it on their own" was applied to Michael Jordan. But, as we all know, he became a beloved teammate later and won titles. He even tried to become a (nose) blood brother with Steve Kerr, but Kerr wussed out and wouldn't give Jordan a love tap back. Oh well, Jordan tried so hard to integrate and invite his teammates.

Look, Harden's no Jordan (or Kobe, another "stat sheet" guy - remember 2006?), but there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. The Rockets can win a title with those 2, although I will concede that Howard is a child.

 

[Big_Blue79]

And let's not forget that the Rockets were like 1.5 games out of being the 7th seed, and they were real close to falling to that position. It also took a monumental collapse from LAC, who still won 2 games without CP3, for the Rockets to get to GSW.

Could this team go back to the WCF as a #2 seed? Sure. But they could just as easily wind up as a 6 seed next year getting bounced in the first round. I'm not willing to look at Houston, the team I root for mind you, and say "Eh, we're fine for next year, no changes need to be made" just because the end result was the #2 seed/WC runner up. The story is deeper than that.

Agreed. Tyus Jones would be a nice fit to back up Beverly, for starters.

 

[LineSkiCat]

I guess the actual quote wasn't enough.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/24/5933591/james-harden-rockets-role-player-dwight-howard

It wasn't a good look. Harden was MVP in my opinion (and to me, it wasn't that close considering the injuries the Rockets had).. but he's stumbled in the playoffs. Last night.. 11 shots... the runner-up MVP with the game on the line.. takes 11 shots... and spends most of the game over-dribbling.. over and over again.. and making lazy passes.. over and over again. He crumbled. and not just a bad shooting night. His entire game went south. And then it got in his head. And then it was over.

Just don't see Harden or Howard as they guys who will LEAD a team to a title right now. I don't think they have that combination of (1) composure, (2) leadership, (3) maturity, and (4) killer instinct. Although I do think Harden is much closer than Howard. But Harden has work to do.

 

[LineSkiCat]

Agreed. Tyus Jones would be a nice fit to back up Beverly, for starters.

Maybe NOT playing Pablo "I'm 40 and it took me till my late 30's to get into the NBA" Prigioni, and instead playing Nick Johnson for a change. Why the hell draft him?? Or maybe keeping Isaiah Canaan as he showed lots of promise in preseason. Ugh,

 

[BlueRunner11]

the beard.

 

[Fancatstik]

I don't like James Harden or anyone that plays like him, but he didn't play totally awful in the playoffs. He did pick a bad series to have 2 off games. Last night's game was impressively awful. He had a good playoff run IMO overall. That team just isn't put together right.

In general, I despise guys that do the shucking, jerking, jiving, dancing, spend 10 seconds setting up a defender only to try and go one on one. Annoys the hell out of me. I'm glad to see him fail.

I agree, I like team basketball. When one person tries to do it all it ruins the game for me.

 

[BlueRunner11]

I agree, I like team basketball. When one person tries to do it all it ruins the game for me.

Also agree...can't stand his game.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

If the Rockets had their whole team....they may have beat GS, or at least took it 7. Beverly being out was a huge loss. It's no coincidence that the one team to stay relatively healthy (minor scares to Curry and Thompson the past couple games aside) is the one that is going to win it all. The playoffs have been awful due to injuries, although still producing some very good games.

And on Harden...he played great. Give me a break.

 

[BlueVoodoo]

the beard.

He needs to shave that ugly thing off. I call him "crotch face".

 

[BlueRunner11]

If the Rockets had their whole team....they may have beat GS, or at least took it 7. Beverly being out was a huge loss. It's no coincidence that the one team to stay relatively healthy (minor scares to Curry and Thompson the past couple games aside) is the one that is going to win it all. The playoffs have been awful due to injuries, although still producing some very good games.

And on Harden...he played great. Give me a break.

If "If's" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas...or something like that. Houston wasn't winning that series.

 

[shaudyshaud1]

I hate Josh Smith shooting so many 3s but the Clips series didn't turn around until he went to the starting lineup and Jones to the bench. Terrence Jones still plays wayyyy to soft for someone so athletic. Rockets fans aren't very high on him

 

[Gametown_baller]

If the Cavs lose, and LeBron has a bad game or 2. Or if the warriors lose and Steph has a bad game or 2, will you make the same thread? I don't like harden, but this is silly.