Not really sure how a coach can be "all in", and this applies to Self too, when Vick was only recruited by the two coaches for the past 2 or 3 weeks. This kid was a luxury item for whomever landed him. Neither Kansas or Kentucky was going to be in a make or break scenario had they not landed this kid. This is why he wasn't recruited beforehand.
why do we have such a hard time recruiting against KU?
- Thread starter kyups01
- Start date
Just keep digging the hole. You're original point was factually incorrect. It's not an opinion.
Hide and watch.
Calipari intentionally was teaching Bill Self about platooning.
Now that he has learned and has gathered all these talent, he won't be able to manage them and satisfy their playing time wishes. As a result he has to in-and-out them often, which will turn them selfish players. When they are in, they will want to keep the ball instead of passing and sharing.
Bill is no John
I predict revolt and unrest in Laurence Kansas.
Don't be surprised to see some transfers mid season, plus poor recruiting results for the jaybirds next year.
Ya win some, ya lose some. OP, this just wasn't a great point or thread. It's okay, we've all had bad posts/threads. We just have to learn from them and keep moving forward.
That's not correct. KU is an Adidas school but Self has done a good job bringing elite Nike kids like Diallo and Wiggins there recently.
Wiggins was not a Nike kid. Everyone assumed from the beginning Wiggins was going to Kansas because of his association with Adidas was almost as close as Shabazz Muhammad's was.
Cal convinced Bragg and Diallo that UK wasn't for them so they went to Kansas.. There,that solved that.
This is like having an opinion that 2 + 2 = 5
As stated before, UK has won many battles. It seems that the ones UK won Self didn't really go after in your mind?
How does that make any sense?
You should probably just ask how does KU win the actual recruits they have signed? A. They are a good school, blueblood, have kids in the NBA, have a top tier coach. There you go.
Honest question.....what do you think Ullis does better than Frank Mason? And to the OP you are reaching here---as a KU fan it seems like Cal gets about anybody he wants---this year not as much, but its not as talent laden as the past. You guys have a great class. Self gets his share of awesome recruits and he is one of the best in the game, but even I can see that Cal is hands down the best and locks down the best recruits both in numbers and quality. 99.9% of other schools would trade recruiting classes with UK this season.
First, it's Ulis, not Ullis. Ulis is the overall better guard IMO. Kansas fans thought they could match us and give us a beating last season. That didn't go so well.
I asked what he does better than mason and you just tell me he is better overall......didn't give me much. Mind giving me specifics. Mason shoots better from the field, better from three and they have nearly identical FT%. Mason rebounds better, averages more assists even though he is more scoring oriented and scores 7 more ppg. Mason has some of the best handles in CBB. He needs work on a quicker release but easily breaks his man down for a shot when needed. Both are damn good defenders while lacking size. Ulis also played with the most talented 8 or 9 players a guard can play with imo. I doubt you found many KU fans that thought we could match you and expected to give you a "beating". We knew it would be ugly and to tell you the truth it was a GD miracle we were within ten at half. Your post sucked as hard as we did against UK last season.
I think Mason is decent, but many of your fans were calling for Graham before conference play. He did improve over the season.
But Frankie does make some questionable decisions...
What does he do better than Frank Mason? Derp. for one and it's the biggest one. He controls the game. That's #1. #2. He makes everyone on the court better. I'll just stop there. Because in order to get to the final four you need those two aspects from your point guard and Frank Mason can't even do that. Frank Mason is a round of 32 and bust. That's Frank Mason. I am not sure of the turnover rate. But I'm betting Ulis is better than Mason on a 40 minute PER in that category. Can't even believe I'm wasting time. Everyone knows you KU fans are about delusional. So nevermind.
I think you need to watch more Kansas bball. At no point in the season did frank underperform. Ku fans were calling for graham to replace selden in the starting lineup b/c he was piss poor for long stretches. Frank was likely our most important player start to finish----so not sure where you are getting the info on that one. I feel confident you couldn't find a single KU fan that would back up anyone wanting frank mason to play one second less than he did. I do think Frank can work on being a better playmaker--looking back over why you might hold this opinion----his performance against UK was about as poor as a guy could play. Pretty sure he got his salad tossed about 7 or 8 times alone in that game.....not to mention shooting wild prayers over UK's length. His poor performance was due to Kansas being overmatched at EVERY position. Truth be told it was one of the most uncomfortable and embarrassing games to watch since i can remember. We looked helpless. Overall, he had a handful of games that he had a rough day from the field. He scored in double figures in all but 6 games and had more than 3 turnovers just 5 times. He will be one of the best PG's in CBB next season even if he improves minimally over the summer imo. I don't see how Ulis is better, but none the less-----Ulis has the tools to be a special player.
So you are saying that the talent around a guard has nothing to do with his success?
Absolutely. But in college ball, you won't win a banner without a stellar point guard and Toonces, we both know Mason couldn't lead an army of ants with a bag of sugar. But Ulis can and will. Wait and see.
Look man, after seeing an explosion of KU fans on threads. I started thinking. I'm kind of jealous of ya'll. You get your nice little picket fence houses that comes complete with Big 12 banners decorating the house and ya'll are content with that. I wish it was that simple for me as an UK fan
Yes, the more talent around a player, the less that is required from that player. Ulis was surrounded by talented players, Mason wasn't. Not much was required from Ulis, while Mason was counted upon. That's why stats go out the window. You'll see Ulis is the better player next season as UK goes on to continue to own Kansas.
Ulis >>> Frank Mason...
anyone suggesting they are similar need to get their heads checked.
anyone suggesting they are similar need to get their heads checked.
Here we go again.
Cole Aldrich >Demarcus Cousins
Xavier Henry > Eric Bledsoe
Josh Selby > Brandon Knight and John Wall
Thomas Robinson > Anthony Davis
Jeff Withey > Anthony Davis and Demarcus Cousins
The Morris twins > Terrence Jones
Frank Mason > Tyler Ulis
Good for Kansas. I guess they're just better.
Cole Aldrich >Demarcus Cousins
Xavier Henry > Eric Bledsoe
Josh Selby > Brandon Knight and John Wall
Thomas Robinson > Anthony Davis
Jeff Withey > Anthony Davis and Demarcus Cousins
The Morris twins > Terrence Jones
Frank Mason > Tyler Ulis
Good for Kansas. I guess they're just better.
To be fair, we were easy to defend last year because we lacked a legit 5 who could defend and a power forward who could hit anything but a layup. That allowed defenses to cheat and clogged the lane which didn't allow Ellis to operate effectively. Bragg and Diallo fix that. We will be a much better team this year.
I think Kentucky will be very good next year too, but I question where the scoring is going to come from on the perimeter.
Yeah. And someone should inform those fools in the NBA about that. You could have all those Kansas players and still have about 50 million dollars of salary cap left. You probably couldn't fit the UK guys on the same team, because you'd be over the cap.
Henry - yep
Selby - nope. Stopped recruiting him months before he decided. He even said as much.
Ellis - yep. But that worked out well. He's soft as charmin
Wiggins - yep
Oubre - yep
Alexander - nope. Stopped recruiting him in favor of Lyles. Probably saw the eligibility issues coming.
Diallo - Yep
Bragg - not sure to be honest. Cal slow played this kid forever.
Vick - really not sure now that it's come out that Murray is on campus.
Now let's list all the guys we beat out Kansas for:
Orton
Lamb
Jones
Knight
Kanter
Goodwin
Wiltjer
Randle
Matthews
I think we've gotten the better of them by a pretty good margin. And of ofcourse the on court results haven't even been comparable.
Selby - nope. Stopped recruiting him months before he decided. He even said as much.
Ellis - yep. But that worked out well. He's soft as charmin
Wiggins - yep
Oubre - yep
Alexander - nope. Stopped recruiting him in favor of Lyles. Probably saw the eligibility issues coming.
Diallo - Yep
Bragg - not sure to be honest. Cal slow played this kid forever.
Vick - really not sure now that it's come out that Murray is on campus.
Now let's list all the guys we beat out Kansas for:
Orton
Lamb
Jones
Knight
Kanter
Goodwin
Wiltjer
Randle
Matthews
I think we've gotten the better of them by a pretty good margin. And of ofcourse the on court results haven't even been comparable.
Just for fun lets list the on court results since Cal took over.
Self 183-38 .828
Cal 190-38 .833
Head to head Cal 3 Self 0
Tournament Cal 22-4 .846 4 FF's 1 Titile 1 Runner Up
Self 13-6 .684 1 FF 1 Runner up
The regular season results are almost identical slanting very slightly in Self's favor. But the post season results and the head to head are overwhelmingly in Cal's favor.
Bill Self quite frankly is without a doubt the biggest choker in the sport.
Self 183-38 .828
Cal 190-38 .833
Head to head Cal 3 Self 0
Tournament Cal 22-4 .846 4 FF's 1 Titile 1 Runner Up
Self 13-6 .684 1 FF 1 Runner up
The regular season results are almost identical slanting very slightly in Self's favor. But the post season results and the head to head are overwhelmingly in Cal's favor.
Bill Self quite frankly is without a doubt the biggest choker in the sport.
UK's perimeter-----) KU's perimeter. And that's not including Murray.
Not sure you realize this, but it appears you got Jared Carter'd with your signing of Vick. Self wastes another scholly for a 4 year Frankencamp type of player. In the immortal words of Nelson. "Ha ha"
Glad you posted the list of players. James Young was offered by Kansas as well.
so, OP - that MUST mean Cal is the better coach. If Self is getting the better players, then most certainly they should have more FFs and another title, right? Honestly, KU is a good enough program - 2nd winningest and all that. Self does have a title. They did play in the title game in '12. It's not like they are going to a school that has no tradition at all.
Seems obvious to me that Cal must be doing more with less, based on your statements.
But, as another has said - recruiting rankings don't always mean anything - results do. I'll take our Final Fours with the players we did get, any day.
Seems obvious to me that Cal must be doing more with less, based on your statements.
But, as another has said - recruiting rankings don't always mean anything - results do. I'll take our Final Fours with the players we did get, any day.
And another thing that's worth mentioning, Kansas basketball has been riddled off court issues during this same time frame as well.
Josh Selby, Cliff Alexander and Ben MacLemore all had eligibility issues and all had some sort of impermissible involvement with agents.
A known drug dealer was also strongly linked to the program at one time.
Then ofcourse there was the fight with the football team, and sheron Collins exposing himself to the woman in the elevator.
Sometimes it's about quality over quantity not just in terms of basketball ability, but character as well. Self is walking a fine line. The media lets him off the hook because he's a "nice guy" and I'm guessing the NCAA has their hands full elsewhere.
Josh Selby, Cliff Alexander and Ben MacLemore all had eligibility issues and all had some sort of impermissible involvement with agents.
A known drug dealer was also strongly linked to the program at one time.
Then ofcourse there was the fight with the football team, and sheron Collins exposing himself to the woman in the elevator.
Sometimes it's about quality over quantity not just in terms of basketball ability, but character as well. Self is walking a fine line. The media lets him off the hook because he's a "nice guy" and I'm guessing the NCAA has their hands full elsewhere.
