Were the Harrison's playing the wrong positions in college?

[brianpoe]

"Aaron Harrison says he has no real experience at point guard prior to this stint with the Charlotte Hornets' summer league team.

You wouldn't know that from how he performed Sunday, primarily in the pick-and-roll. Harrison started, finishing with 16 points, a team-high eight assists and four rebounds."



"Harrison's twin brother, Andrew, played point guard at Kentucky. In another twist to this story, the Grizzlies are playing Andrew Harrison at shooting guard, rather than the point, in summer league."


http://www.kentucky.com/2015/07/06/3933302/aaron-harrison-making-switch-to.html

 

[Smashcat]

Nice game the other day. He certainly isn't going to shoot his way into the League. My question would be. Can he defend NBA point guards?

 

[tapemaster8]

He played the point some in his freshman season at UK!

 

[loublue22]

could make a strong argument they should have both been college 3s

 

[UK90]

could make a strong argument they should have both been college 3s

And at a lot of schools that's where they would've been playing. Just like Trey Lyles at other schools would've been a 4 (or perhaps even 5) instead of at the 3, WCS would've been exclusively a 5 instead of a 4, Poythress exclusively a 4 instead of dabbling at the 3, etc, etc.

These extraordinarily huge rosters we've had the last couple years have resulted in our guys spending a lot of time at a smaller position than they'd normally play at other schools. But that may be a good thing for them in the long run, as it gave them a chance to develop more rounded perimeter skills while here.

 

[cal=8]

Maybe it was Andrew in his place at the point for Charlotte and Aaron is the 2 for the Grizzlies..

 

[BurpinTurpin]

Maybe it was Andrew in his place at the point for Charlotte and Aaron is the 2 for the Grizzlies..

Ah, of course, the old switcheroo. Or maybe... Andrew was really Aaron at UK and vice-versa? Do we even know anymore? Do they know anymore?

 

[Orange Soda King]

Eddie Van Halen was originally the drummer and Alex was originally the guitarist. You never know how things work out.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I think the reason we're seeing them in different roles is that teams drafted them because their size and skillset gives them versatility. They're trying to see to what extent they can be effective out of position.

If you aren't going to be elite at one spot in the NBA, you better be serviceable at two.

 

[ArmyWildcat81]

Yes. Both should've played Chuck Hayes type Power Forward roles at UK.

Brian Long was our best true point guard.

 

[kats23]

You see this a lot esp in the summer leagues. It doesn't mean they were playing in the wrong position in college. It means it's a different league with different needs. In high school they played defensively on the forwards due to their size. Also, with Cal's offense, you a lot of times have different ball handlers throughout . While Aaron didn't play point, he many times would set up the offense.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

The NBA is a different game. Plus an NBA team may have a place for Aaron as a PG. But its unlikely they'll have a place for him at SG.

 

[wcc31]

Always was curious if Aaron could play the point.

I'll never get the talk about Andrew NOT being a PG. He's definitely a PG and was a pretty darn good one in his two years here.

Aaron had one problem- for some reason his shot just wasn't there this year. Makes little sense.

 

[K_TIME]

Oh brother....we're basing this off of NBA summer league game...which isn't a ton different than pick up games in Summer at UK.

To be fair, regardless of PG, SG or SF...the Harrison's needed to shoot more accurately to play on the perimeter...Shooting 38%FG overall and 32% from 3pt land isn't going to project you in the NBA regardless of any of those 3 spots on the floor.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Andrew played off guard at times last year when he played with Ulis. Aaron played some PG his frosh season. I know they did not play either position extensively...but to say they never have seems a bit of a reach to me.

 

[mj2k10]

"Big point guard" seems to work a lot better in theory than in reality. Look at the last 5 National Champs in college- the starting PG's went 6'1", 6'2", 6'0", 6'1", and 6'1". Look at the NBA- of the top 10 PG's by PER last year, John Wall was the tallest.

The way the game is moving, especially in the NBA, this seems like a tough time for guys in the 6'3"-6'6" range, especially if they're not A+ athletes. The freedom of movement emphasis in the pros has put a premium on lightning quick PG's who can break defenses off the dribble, which tends to be smaller guys, but the 2 guard spot is now often being filled by huge guys who can defend multiple positions and knock down jumpshots. James Harden, Klay Thompson,Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan, Wes Matthews, Danny Green- those guys aren't just tall, they all weigh in at well over 210 lbs. The game seems to be moving towards a 1 point guard, 2 or 3 wings, stretch 4, 1 big structure, in which teams prefer that everyone except the pure point and the big guy have a lot of interchangeable skills.

If the Harrisons show enough versatility to play multiple positions, it will carve them a place in the NBA. A slow-ish 6'6" PG isn't worth all that much, but a 6'6" 210+ lbs guy who can give you time at 3 positions is.

 

[westerncat]

I hope Aaron can fine a place in the NBA. Had to be hard on him to not get drafted. A lot of fans on this board pretty well knew there was a chance he would not get drafted. Hope he can find a place.

 

[KA4Prez]

Could've made a strong argument that both are good basketball players. They have the height of a 3, the skills of a 1 but make the most sense playing the 2. It's hard to blame anyone for playing them anywhere. I don't believe they have a true position.

 

[brianpoe]

Could've made a strong argument that both are good basketball players. They have the height of a 3, the skills of a 1 but make the most sense playing the 2. It's hard to blame anyone for playing them anywhere. I don't believe they have a true position.

If they shot better you could play them at any of those spots and be at least ok.

 

[WildMoon]

"Big point guard" seems to work a lot better in theory than in reality. Look at the last 5 National Champs in college- the starting PG's went 6'1", 6'2", 6'0", 6'1", and 6'1". Look at the NBA- of the top 10 PG's by PER last year, John Wall was the tallest.

The way the game is moving, especially in the NBA, this seems like a tough time for guys in the 6'3"-6'6" range, especially if they're not A+ athletes. The freedom of movement emphasis in the pros has put a premium on lightning quick PG's who can break defenses off the dribble, which tends to be smaller guys, but the 2 guard spot is now often being filled by huge guys who can defend multiple positions and knock down jumpshots. James Harden, Klay Thompson,Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan, Wes Matthews, Danny Green- those guys aren't just tall, they all weigh in at well over 210 lbs. The game seems to be moving towards a 1 point guard, 2 or 3 wings, stretch 4, 1 big structure, in which teams prefer that everyone except the pure point and the big guy have a lot of interchangeable skills.

If the Harrisons show enough versatility to play multiple positions, it will carve them a place in the NBA. A slow-ish 6'6" PG isn't worth all that much, but a 6'6" 210+ lbs guy who can give you time at 3 positions is.

while i kind of agree.

Steph Curry is a 6'3" PG who isn't super athletic.

I think in general, NBA just have farther increased skill sets from the bigs, which is causing more spacing in general.

John Wall is still one of the top PG in the league, who's 6'4".

Westbrook (6'3") is freak athlete, that plays like 6'8".

that's like 3 of top 5 PG that's pretty huge.

 

[wcc31]

"Big point guard" seems to work a lot better in theory than in reality. Look at the last 5 National Champs in college- the starting PG's went 6'1", 6'2", 6'0", 6'1", and 6'1". Look at the NBA- of the top 10 PG's by PER last year, John Wall was the tallest.

The way the game is moving, especially in the NBA, this seems like a tough time for guys in the 6'3"-6'6" range, especially if they're not A+ athletes. The freedom of movement emphasis in the pros has put a premium on lightning quick PG's who can break defenses off the dribble, which tends to be smaller guys, but the 2 guard spot is now often being filled by huge guys who can defend multiple positions and knock down jumpshots. James Harden, Klay Thompson,Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan, Wes Matthews, Danny Green- those guys aren't just tall, they all weigh in at well over 210 lbs. The game seems to be moving towards a 1 point guard, 2 or 3 wings, stretch 4, 1 big structure, in which teams prefer that everyone except the pure point and the big guy have a lot of interchangeable skills.

If the Harrisons show enough versatility to play multiple positions, it will carve them a place in the NBA. A slow-ish 6'6" PG isn't worth all that much, but a 6'6" 210+ lbs guy who can give you time at 3 positions is.

Not sure I agree with all that. Yes, smaller PGs dominate most PG rankings but that's because 90% of PGs (made that % up of course, but the vast majority) are under 6'4". There just aren't that many Shaun Livingstons, Andrew Harrisons or Michael Carter-Williams out there...which is why they are considered so valuable.

 

[WildMoon]

BTW, 6'1 to 6'2 isn't exactly small either.

 

[moe#8]

I trust Cal completely on how he positions his players, remember he sees them in practice daily.

 

[StubbornPenny]

In all honesty, they both should have been PGs and not played together. Their skill sets as 6'6'' PGs is far more attractive than SGs or SFs. I know twins tend to play together, but is that really best for their development?

And again in honesty, if they were born 10 years ago they'd both be playing SF.

And once and for all in all honesty, they probably should be playing defensive end. Imagine a line with the Harrisons on the edges!

 

[mj2k10]

Not sure I agree with all that. Yes, smaller PGs dominate most PG rankings but that's because 90% of PGs (made that % up of course, but the vast majority) are under 6'4". There just aren't that many Shaun Livingstons, Andrew Harrisons or Michael Carter-Williams out there...which is why they are considered so valuable.

But how can they (big PG's) be "so valuable" if there really aren't any, at least any that are all that good? That's what I'm talking about- they seem valuable in theory, but the reality is that there are exactly 0 thriving at the highest level. I mean, guys like MCW and Livingston have value, but they're nowhere near the upper echelon of PG's in the league.

There are a lot of bigger players who can (and often do) function as de facto PG's. Scottie Pippen and Jordan did it for years with the Bulls, Kobe has done it at times, Dwyane Wade, James Harden, and most of all, LeBron. But in every single case (except possibly the 96-98 Bulls, who often used Ron Harper as a defensive specialist), they've been on the floor with someone else who's listed as the PG. You know why? Because you need someone to guard the other team's little guys (that 90% you mention), and chasing those guys around the floor is usually too much to ask of bigger guys, a huge expenditure of energy that wouldn't pay-off in the long-term.

 

[UK90]

"Big point guard" seems to work a lot better in theory than in reality. Look at the last 5 National Champs in college- the starting PG's went 6'1", 6'2", 6'0", 6'1", and 6'1". Look at the NBA- of the top 10 PG's by PER last year, John Wall was the tallest.

Exactly. The focus some here have on big backcourts appears to be hugely overblown. In reality, the teams that win national championships usually have small backcourts. And virtually all the best points in the NBA in recent years (with Wall being the one exception) have been somewhere between 6'0" to 6'3".

That's why I was kinda amused when posters here claimed that a point with Andrew's size would supposedly be in great demand at the next level. Based on what? Certainly not what's actually been happening in recent years. In reality, prospects like Andrew usually end up either changing positions or flaming out when they get to the NBA level. When it comes to points, speed trumps size in today's NBA.

 

[crestcat]

Magic Johnson was a 6'8" PG

 

[UK90]

Magic Johnson played in a dfferent era. And Magic Johnson was the type of exceptionally rare player that comes along ...ohhh ...about once in a lifetime.... In short, Magic Johnson has no real relevance to Andrew Harrison's prospects in 2015.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Exactly. The focus some here have on big backcourts appears to be hugely overblown. In reality, the teams that win national championships usually have small backcourts. And virtually all the best points in the NBA in recent years (with Wall being the one exception) have been somewhere between 6'0" to 6'3".

That's why I was kinda amused when posters here claimed that a point with Andrew's size would supposedly be in great demand at the next level. Based on what? Certainly not what's actually been happening in recent years. In reality, prospects like Andrew usually end up either changing positions or flaming out when they get to the NBA level. When it comes to points, speed trumps size in today's NBA.

But isn't that because nearly all of them ARE that size? You might as well say the best centers are between 6'10 and 7'1.

Most small forwards are probably 6'8, but when you get a guy 2-3 inches taller like Durant and Greek Freak, it's a distinct advantage. The importance is skill/athleticism to accompany the size, not the size alone.

And why make the distinction at 6'3? If you make it 6'2, then you get to include Rose, Curry, Westbrook, and others alongside Wall. If 6'4 is big, then Rose and Westbrook are definitely "big" guards as well. Again, more about athleticism, length, strength, etc than pure height. I wouldn't call Curry a big guard, but I would say Westbrook is.

In the case of the twins, specifically Andrew, if he were 6'2, he probably isn't in the league. His height may not be what makes him a great player, but it's definitely a strength that helped get him a chance to prove himself. I'd consider that being in demand.

 

[mj2k10]

Most small forwards are probably 6'8, but when you get a guy 2-3 inches taller like Durant and Greek Freak, it's a distinct advantage. The importance is skill/athleticism to accompany the size, not the size alone.

And the issue with PG is that one of the main skills needed to succeed is agility. Which smaller guys almost always have more of than bigger guys- the same reason that so few cornerbacks in the NFL are taller than 6'1". If you find that freak that's 6'5" and really is as agile as top-level 6'1" guys, you're still often better off with him at a different position (receiver in football, 2 guard- ala Jordan or Kobe- in basketball).

The unimportance of height only goes so far - anybody below 6'0" is up against it in basketball- but there has to be a reason that PG height has changed less than almost any other position over the years.

 

[KA4Prez]

If they shot better you could play them at any of those spots and be at least ok.

That's the whole point. The reason nobody knows where to play them is they have flaws at every spot you play them at. It's even more magnified in the NBA.

PG...neither are good enough handlers or passers to be a top PG
SG...neither are consistent enough shooters to be a top SG.
SF...neither are athletic enough to be a top SF.

 

[GonzoCat90]

And the issue with PG is that one of the main skills needed to succeed is agility. Which smaller guys almost always have more of than bigger guys- the same reason that so few cornerbacks in the NFL are taller than 6'1". If you find that freak that's 6'5" and really is as agile as top-level 6'1" guys, you're still often better off with him at a different position (receiver in football, 2 guard- ala Jordan or Kobe- in basketball).

The unimportance of height only goes so far - anybody below 6'0" is up against it in basketball- but there has to be a reason that PG height has changed less than almost any other position over the years.

Agreed, but I also think that's as much a human limitation/population result as anything else. What I mean is that while we may be getting bigger, stronger, faster, etc. across the board, the "bottom" of that size is still closer to the mean and therefore producing far more results.

So, sure, we have more 7 footers now that can play basketball, but it isn't coming at the expense of the "PG sized" humans. There aren't fewer 6'-6'3 guys than there used to be, even if the tallest are increasing in number.

What we ARE seeing, though, is those humans of the same size having far superior physical gifts. Bledsoe may be 6'1, Westbrook/Rose 6'3, Wall 6'4, but dudes of that size 40 years ago who could match that explosion and athleticism were incredibly rare. Basically Big O and...? Now even fringe talent guys like Zach LaVine are starting to pop up.

 

[RondoBaller21]

Don't think it really matters as it appears both are likely heading to the D league this year.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Magic Johnson was a 6'8" PG

Magic was 6'10" and could play 5 positions. He played center when Jabbar went down versus the Celtics.

 

[KA4Prez]

Magic...and LeBron...and about nobody else...are once in a lifetime players.

 

[wcc31]

Andrew's size was definitely an advantage for us. He got to the line a lot.

 

[UK90]

Magic was 6'10" and could play 5 positions..

Magic was NOT 6'10". Good lord, the way people love to exaggerate heights on this board. Magic was often listed at 6'9", but even that listing was commonly understood to be a slight embellishment, he was actually about 6'8".

 

[UPSCat4080]

Considering their freshmen year they lead us to a championship game appearance and their sophomore year led us to a 38-1 record.....I say no. They were playing just fine where they were at. Aaron is surprising everyone playing PG and Andrew is doing nothing much as an off guard.

 

[Lord_Crow]

Andrew is going to be a fine NBA PG. I think the best thing for both of them will actually be that they are separated. I think they would have been better off to have done that in college with each going to a different school and maybe both playing PG.

 

[ArmyWildcat81]

Lmao to the guy who said Magic was 6'10"