Vanderbilt Players Convicted of Rape Get Mistrial

[footballfanatic77]

We've been talking a lot about bad behavior in college football programs, but this is probably the most egregious example of bad behavior in a college football program that I have seen. Really surprised that a judge granted a mistrial here, especially since it isn't clear that the juror was ever asked any questions which would have prompted him to answer the question of whether he had been the victim of statutory rape.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2015/06/23/judge-rules-vanderbilt-rape-mistrial/29135323/

 

[Poetax]

Looking around the country and seeing people walk with these rape cases when they were found guilty earlier, Tubman may be the only innocent man to pay for something he didn't do.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Looking around the country and seeing people walk with these rape cases when they were found guilty earlier, Tubman may be the only innocent man to pay for something he didn't do.

This case was the worst case I had ever heard based on the evidence. I can't believe the prosecutor has to retry the case.

 

[southindycat]

Most unlikely these kids walk. As already clarified above, mistrial just means they will be retried. No one in Nashville wants to be accused of railroading these guys, even if the notion that conviction might require it is ridiculous.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Most unlikely these kids walk. As already clarified above, mistrial just means they will be retried. No one in Nashville wants to be accused of railroading these guys, even if the notion that conviction might require it is ridiculous.

I'm a lawyer so I understand what mistrial means, but the fact that a mistrial was declared in this case is pretty absurd.

 

[southindycat]

I'm a lawyer so I understand what mistrial means, but the fact that a mistrial was declared in this case is pretty absurd.

.
My comment should have been more clearly addressed to Poetax. Didn't mean to get you all stirred up, counsel. I do not in any way disagree with you. I am just pointing out that the circumstances lend themselves to the ridiculous.

 

[Cats78]

Looking around the country and seeing people walk with these rape cases when they were found guilty earlier, Tubman may be the only innocent man to pay for something he didn't do.

That's odd. If you've read any of the Tubman threads on this board, you'd think that women never really get raped or that scum haven't been getting away with for years. Apparently in today's world, the females are all lying and ruining young mens lives, um, just for the hell of it or because someone broke up with them I guess.

 

[USMC Cat]

That's odd. If you've read any of the Tubman threads on this board, you'd think that women never really get raped or that scum haven't been getting away with for years. Apparently in today's world, the females are all lying and ruining young mens lives, um, just for the hell of it or because someone broke up with them I guess.

Seems to be more and more prevalent.

 

[Poetax]

That's odd. If you've read any of the Tubman threads on this board, you'd think that women never really get raped or that scum haven't been getting away with for years. Apparently in today's world, the females are all lying and ruining young mens lives, um, just for the hell of it or because someone broke up with them I guess.

Not sure where your rant came from concerning my post but Tubman was not found to be a rapist in his situation but was expelled from school. On NBC the other night, their Dateline show was about a football player who was accused of rape, suspended until after the trial, was found innocent, and was able to get back in school and play football again. Tubman did not get this option and yes I think women get raped in college every year but I'm not believing that every sexual act was a rape, sorry just my opinion and I did not mean to upset you.

 

[footballfanatic77]

I'm not completely convinced of Tubman's innocence, but I'm also not completely convinced that all these football players that get accused of rape actually did rape anyone. It's estimated that about 8% of rape complaints are false, which is higher than false complaints for any other crime; I think football players, being even more in the spotlight get a higher share of false complaints than the average male student would. All that said, the evidence from the Vanderbilt rape case was incontrovertible. It was truly a shocking and disgusting crime and the fact that the victim has to go through another trial is tragic, especially when there is no doubt of the guilt of the defendants.

 

[jnewc2]

I'm not completely convinced of Tubman's innocence, but I'm also not completely convinced that all these football players that get accused of rape actually did rape anyone. It's estimated that about 8% of rape complaints are false, which is higher than false complaints for any other crime; I think football players, being even more in the spotlight get a higher share of false complaints than the average male student would. All that said, the evidence from the Vanderbilt rape case was incontrovertible. It was truly a shocking and disgusting crime and the fact that the victim has to go through another trial is tragic, especially when there is no doubt of the guilt of the defendants.

I wish I had a dollar for every time an 18 or 19 year old athlete was accused of rape yet turned out to be innocent a couple months down the road after his reputation & life are completely ruined.

Hopefully yourself or your son or someone in your family will never be falsely accused of rape as thousands of other boys and men have been, because you're kidding yourself if you think they'll take your word over a female's (and even if you're found innocent, irreparable damage has already been done).

I don't have any children, but I'd be afraid of having a son in today's world.

Rape is terrible, but false, life-ruining accusations are even worse in my eyes.

You throw around that 8% false accusation of rape statistic like it's no big deal. I mean think about it..that's basically one out of every ten...that seems more than a little serious to me. That could be your son, or my son, or your brother or my brother.

Hopefully you'll never have to be the 1 out of 10 that gets falsely accused and has their life and their families lives completley ruined.

 

[footballfanatic77]

I wish I had a dollar for every time an 18 or 19 year old athlete was accused of rape yet turned out to be innocent a couple months down the road after his reputation & life are completely ruined.

Hopefully yourself or your son or someone in your family will never be falsely accused of rape as thousands of other boys and men have been, because you're kidding yourself if you think they'll take your word over a female's (and even if you're found innocent, irreparable damage has already been done).

I don't have any children, but I'd be afraid of having a son in today's world.

Rape is terrible, but false, life-ruining accusations are even worse in my eyes.

You throw around that 8% false accusation of rape statistic like it's no big deal. I mean think about it..that's basically one out of every ten...that seems more than a little serious to me. That could be your son, or my son, or your brother or my brother.

Hopefully you'll never have to be the 1 out of 10 that gets falsely accused and has their life and their families lives completley ruined.

Dude did you even read my post? I plainly said that I don't think everyone accused is guilty and that false accusations are higher for rape than any other crime. At first I thought you were directing your post at someone else, until I saw that you quoted the 8% statistic. I basically said exactly the same thing you did. It should go without saying that I think a false rape accusation is a terrible thing. The Vanderbilt case wasn't a false accusation.

 

[Cats78]

I wish I had a dollar for every time an 18 or 19 year old athlete was accused of rape yet turned out to be innocent a couple months down the road after his reputation & life are completely ruined.

Hopefully yourself or your son or someone in your family will never be falsely accused of rape as thousands of other boys and men have been, because you're kidding yourself if you think they'll take your word over a female's (and even if you're found innocent, irreparable damage has already been done).

I don't have any children, but I'd be afraid of having a son in today's world.

Rape is terrible, but false, life-ruining accusations are even worse in my eyes.

You throw around that 8% false accusation of rape statistic like it's no big deal. I mean think about it..that's basically one out of every ten...that seems more than a little serious to me. That could be your son, or my son, or your brother or my brother.

Hopefully you'll never have to be the 1 out of 10 that gets falsely accused and has their life and their families lives completley ruined.

Turns out to be innocent or "gets away with it"? This is hilarious. So hilarious I don't even think you're serious. You should probably be more concerned about having a daughter in today's world. Hell of a better chance she gets raped (especially if she goes to college and ever drinks) and has her life ruined and the guy gets away with it than you having a boy that gets falsely accused or whatever. What a joke.

Parts of your post reminds me of Talladega nights and Ricky Bobby in the hospital saying "I hope that both of you have sons... Handsome, beautiful, articulate sons, who are talented and star athletes and they have their legs taken away. I mean I pray you know that pain and that hurt."

How about if you have a son, you don't raise a scumbag. Maybe that will decrease those scary odds that his life will get ruined cause he tripped and fell on a girl and she falsely accused him of rape.

"I'm afraid to have a son because in this world he may get falsely accuse of rape!!!!!"

Stay strong buddy, stay strong. Today's world is messed up. If you're a guy you gotta be careful out there. Those women are on the prowl to ruin your life. I mean, I know women get raped and stuff but do they really get raped THAT much??? I mean, there are probably a few here and there that get raped and we never hear about it or no one presses charges but it seems to me since I watch TV and stuff that in today's world chicks are just out to ruin guys lives and the problem of guys raping girls constantly has always been overblown and is just not true. Right?

 

[jauk11]

Probably started at 7PM EST but 20/20 is about the Vandy case, it is on at 10PM PST tonight, on one of the networks, channel 13 locally. Probably better info there than on here.

 

[TeoJ]

Probably started at 7PM EST but 20/20 is about the Vandy case, it is on at 10PM PST tonight, on one of the networks, channel 13 locally. Probably better info there than on here.

Just watched pretty damming evidence when you have the camera photos.Also when you watch them carrying her in passed out on security cameras.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Just watched pretty damming evidence when you have the camera photos.Also when you watch them carrying her in passed out on security cameras.

Yeah it was some of the most convincing evidence I've seen in a high profile case like this. I remember seeing the victims face during the trial...hate that she has to go through that again.

 

[Chuckinden]

I watched the 20/20 episode and she was definitely raped, but there is no proof the big white dude raped her, but he was convicted of aggravated rape. He will win that on appeal if it goes back to trial.

I would say there will be a whole lot of plea bargaining going on.

 

[jauk11]

Just watched pretty damming evidence when you have the camera photos.Also when you watch them carrying her in passed out on security cameras.

Long story, and maybe boring, but strange things happen sometimes. Carrying her in passed out wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

Back when I was young and foolish and partying a lot (long time ago) I was at a party where these two girls I knew somewhat were there, one bartending and drinking more than her share of the drinks, she got drunk and her roommate asked me to take her home about 2 AM, and it was on my way and I knew where it was, had been to a party there the previous Saturday night. When she got in the car, she passed out, no intelligible responses, so I drove to their apartment, took her keys to open their door, and tried the key in the door. It didn't work. I knew it was the right apt, #8, but I went to the mailboxes and checked, sure enough, Karen and Kathy still on #8, so I went back and tried again, still didn't turn but I accidentally leaned on the door and it opened. Now you have to realize I was drunk also, so I thought I would turn the light on, go back and carry her in and throw her on the bed, good deed done for the day. But as soon as the door opened someone about 6' 6" tall came charging out of the back asking what the hell I was doing there, I said "I think I made a mistake" and he said "You sure as hell have" while still charging at me. I backed out the door and he slammed it in my face, it hit my nose and forehead just as it stopped, so no damage.

So I drove to my apartment, carried this passed out woman in and threw her on the bed and fell in and fell asleep-----or passed out, whatever. She woke me up the next morning wanting to know where she was and why.

Pretty funny after the fact, but they had moved that week and her roommate forgot to tell me, so glad that guy was so big, if it had been a little guy he might have shot me dead, and it would probably been ruled justifiable homicide.

I finally quit partying so much after I got married, and quit drinking so much after I found out what causes hangovers. It took a while.

 

[TeoJ]

Long story, and maybe boring, but strange things happen sometimes. Carrying her in passed out wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

Back when I was young and foolish and partying a lot (long time ago) I was at a party where these two girls I knew somewhat were there, one bartending and drinking more than her share of the drinks, she got drunk and her roommate asked me to take her home about 2 AM, and it was on my way and I knew where it was, had been to a party there the previous Saturday night. When she got in the car, she passed out, no intelligible responses, so I drove to their apartment, took her keys to open their door, and tried the key in the door. It didn't work. I knew it was the right apt, #8, but I went to the mailboxes and checked, sure enough, Karen and Kathy still on #8, so I went back and tried again, still didn't turn but I accidentally leaned on the door and it opened. Now you have to realize I was drunk also, so I thought I would turn the light on, go back and carry her in and throw her on the bed, good deed done for the day. But as soon as the door opened someone about 6' 6" tall came charging out of the back asking what the hell I was doing there, I said "I think I made a mistake" and he said "You sure as hell have" while still charging at me. I backed out the door and he slammed it in my face, it hit my nose and forehead just as it stopped, so no damage.

So I drove to my apartment, carried this passed out woman in and threw her on the bed and fell in and fell asleep-----or passed out, whatever. She woke me up the next morning wanting to know where she was and why.

Pretty funny after the fact, but they had moved that week and her roommate forgot to tell me, so glad that guy was so big, if it had been a little guy he might have shot me dead, and it would probably been ruled justifiable homicide.

I finally quit partying so much after I got married, and quit drinking so much after I found out what causes hangovers. It took a while.

True carrying her in not a big deal but the pictures they took on their phones the ones the cop watched and said was the most disgusting pictures he had seen was pretty damming evidence.JMHO

 

[footballfanatic77]

I watched the 20/20 episode and she was definitely raped, but there is no proof the big white dude raped her, but he was convicted of aggravated rape. He will win that on appeal if it goes back to trial.

I would say there will be a whole lot of plea bargaining going on.

The white dude was dating her at the time and pretty much set the whole thing up. He ran a Google search about whether pictures could be recovered from an iPhone. His was the only phone pictures weren't found on, but that's why. He won't win anything on appeal and it will almost surely go back to trial and he will almost certainly be convicted again. He wasn't convicted because he actually penetrated her, he was convicted because he encouraged the others to have sex with her and passed out condoms to the others. The videos of the other guys penetrating her were taken by him as were the videos of them urinating on her. Not to mention the testimony of friends that he had texted about it and testimony from people in the dorm who testified that he had invited them in to have a go at her.

 

[TopCatCal]

Sounds like some future UL players to me. Just the kind of trash Petrino goes after.

 

[jauk11]

The white dude was dating her at the time and pretty much set the whole thing up. He ran a Google search about whether pictures could be recovered from an iPhone. His was the only phone pictures weren't found on, but that's why. He won't win anything on appeal and it will almost surely go back to trial and he will almost certainly be convicted again. He wasn't convicted because he actually penetrated her, he was convicted because he encouraged the others to have sex with her and passed out condoms to the others. The videos of the other guys penetrating her were taken by him as were the videos of them urinating on her. Not to mention the testimony of friends that he had texted about it and testimony from people in the dorm who testified that he had invited them in to have a go at her.

I didn't see all that, glad I didn't, where did you see all this?

 

[TeoJ]

I didn't see all that, glad I didn't, where did you see all this?

20-20

 

[Poetax]

I watched the 20/20 episode and she was definitely raped, but there is no proof the big white dude raped her, but he was convicted of aggravated rape. He will win that on appeal if it goes back to trial.

I would say there will be a whole lot of plea bargaining going on.

There's always the thought why did the driver of the getaway car get the same penalty as the actual robbers. It's because you are part of breaking the law, that's why.

 

[footballfanatic77]

I didn't see all that, glad I didn't, where did you see all this?

I watched the trial. Was finishing up law school at the time so found it all to be interesting. Anytime I can mix anything football-related with work, it makes the day go faster.

 

[Chuckinden]

The white dude was dating her at the time and pretty much set the whole thing up. He ran a Google search about whether pictures could be recovered from an iPhone. His was the only phone pictures weren't found on, but that's why. He won't win anything on appeal and it will almost surely go back to trial and he will almost certainly be convicted again. He wasn't convicted because he actually penetrated her, he was convicted because he encouraged the others to have sex with her and passed out condoms to the others. The videos of the other guys penetrating her were taken by him as were the videos of them urinating on her. Not to mention the testimony of friends that he had texted about it and testimony from people in the dorm who testified that he had invited them in to have a go at her.

Sounds like an accessory to rape and facilitator. Logically, how can he be guilty of rape when he didn't penetrate her. He's guilty of a lot of things, but I can't see aggravated rape being one of them.

As far as a re-trial, you can bet the prosecutors do not want to go through this again and will try to plea bargain.

 

[footballfanatic77]

Sounds like an accessory to rape and facilitator. Logically, how can he be guilty of rape when he didn't penetrate her. He's guilty of a lot of things, but I can't see aggravated rape being one of them.

As far as a re-trial, you can bet the prosecutors do not want to go through this again and will try to plea bargain.

I would retry this case. The problem was not with the charges that were filed or the conviction. As the prosecutor I would try to get exactly the same charges and exactly the same conviction and I wouldn't offer a plea. After all, they have to try several of the other cases that haven't been tried yet anyway. The only issue was in a juror failing to disclose that he had consensual sex when he was a minor and that his parents had pressed charges against the person. It was honestly something that most judges wouldn't have declared a mistrial over. He wouldn't be an accessory because he helped in the commission of the crime--not after the fact. In Tennessee a person may be criminally responsible for an offense committed by another if:
(1) acting with the culpability required for the offense, the person causes or aids an innocent responsible person to engage in conduct prohibited by the definition of the offense;
(2) acting with intent to promote or assist the commission of the offense, or to benefit in the proceeds or results of the offense, the person solicits, directs, aids, or attempts to aid another person to commit the offense...

So the charges brought by the prosecutor were appropriate and justified and the prosecution did a fine job of presenting their case. The jury returned with a verdict in 3 hours. I don't imagine the second time around will take much longer.

 

[johnnyrockets]

I wish I had a dollar for every time an 18 or 19 year old athlete was accused of rape yet turned out to be innocent a couple months down the road after his reputation & life are completely ruined.

Hopefully yourself or your son or someone in your family will never be falsely accused of rape as thousands of other boys and men have been, because you're kidding yourself if you think they'll take your word over a female's (and even if you're found innocent, irreparable damage has already been done).

I don't have any children, but I'd be afraid of having a son in today's world.

Rape is terrible, but false, life-ruining accusations are even worse in my eyes.

You throw around that 8% false accusation of rape statistic like it's no big deal. I mean think about it..that's basically one out of every ten...that seems more than a little serious to me. That could be your son, or my son, or your brother or my brother.

Hopefully you'll never have to be the 1 out of 10 that gets falsely accused and has their life and their families lives completley ruined.

Sorry, did you really just say that being falsely accused of rape is worse than actually being raped?

It's comments like these that make real conversations on the topic so difficult to have.