Top 5 centers of all time?

[UKcats1988]

The Dwight Howard thread where Spotter34 said Shaq isn't an elite all time center got me thinking, who are the top 5 centers of all time?

1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. David Robinson

Post Wilt/Russell

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Robinson
4. Hakeem
5. Moses Malone

 

[wild mandu]

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Hakeem
5. Shaq

This is assuming we're calling Duncan a PF.

 

[killaCk]

Ill take a prime Shaq over any other center hands down.

 

[UKcats1988]

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Hakeem
5. Shaq

This is assuming we're calling Duncan a PF.

Yea let's call Duncan a PF for this, would be interesting where he'd fit at center.

 

[king of cali]

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Hakeem
5. Shaq

This. Although I would be tempted to put Shaq above Olajuwon.

 

[argubs2]

1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. The Dream

 

[eRUPPtion78]

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Hakeem
5. Shaq

This is assuming we're calling Duncan a PF.

Move Hakeem out, Shaq up to 4, and Robinson in and you've got it in the correct order.

 

[UKcats1988]

Hakeem vs David Robinson has always been interesting for me. Their per game averages are almost identical, both have a MVP, and a couple titles each with Hakeem being the best player on both his. When you look at the advanced numbers Robinson is ahead by PER, Offensive rating, defensive rating, win shares, win shares/48, value over replacement player. Robinson at his peak was absolutely unbelievable.

 

[spotter34]

Yea let's call Duncan a PF for this, would be interesting where he'd fit at center.

I almost hate to reply to this but I can't help myself.

All-time:
1) Russell
2) Abdul-Jabbar
3) Chamberlain
4) Olajuwon
5) Moses Malone

Last 25 years:
1) Olajuwon
2) Ewing
3) Shaq
4) Robinson
5) Mourning

I'm thinking Duncan and KG are more PF's. Bill Walton would be in that all-time top 5 if he hadn't been riddled with injuries.

 

[king of cali]

Dude just stop. Ewing was NEVER better than Shaq. All relevant and advanced numbers back that up.

 

[spotter34]

Dude just stop. Ewing was NEVER better than Shaq. All relevant and advanced numbers back that up.

I can see that argument and I could move Shaq in front of Ewing.

 

[CELTICAT]

I guess nobody remembers Hakeem ripping the Admiral a new one in '95. Look up Hakeem's averages for that series and tell me David Robinson was better.

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

This^^^

 

[ThroughBlue]

The Dream > The Admiral

 

[gossie21]

I'm surprised at how many have Russell outside of the #1 spot on their all-time list. He is generally considered the #2 greatest player ever regardless of position just behind Michael Jordan (or maybe that's just me). He has 11 NBA titles. And he was far more skilled than any of the other players on the list, not that centers always have to be skilled. Shaq had very little skill, but was just so physically imposing that nobody could stop him.

I would go:
1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Olajuwon.

Last 25 years.
1. Shaq
2. Olajuwon
3. Robinson
4. Patrick Ewing
5. Dikembe Mutumbo

 

[gossie21]

Hakeem vs David Robinson has always been interesting for me. Their per game averages are almost identical, both have a MVP, and a couple titles each with Hakeem being the best player on both his. When you look at the advanced numbers Robinson is ahead by PER, Offensive rating, defensive rating, win shares, win shares/48, value over replacement player. Robinson at his peak was absolutely unbelievable.

Robinson was at his peak in 1995 and got beat (and thoroughly outplayed) by Olajuwon. I liked the Admiral, and wanted him to win the title that year. It hurt to watch Hakeem just go nuts on him though.

 

[spotter34]

Olajuwon had the best footwork I can remember for a center. I remember him tying Robinson up in knots when they played. Once Hakeem got his jumper and fade-away down to an art it made him as dangerous offensively as Abdul-Jabbar. I've got Kareem ahead of Hakeem primarily because of the years he was at the top of his game, and the sky-hook was money. I figured after Kareem there would be a line of centers who would have the sky-hook as their go to move, but it never happened. Guys have used it at times but it's never been utilized the way Kareem did it. It just proves to me how difficult that shot is.

 

[UKcats1988]

Robinson was at his peak in 1995 and got beat (and thoroughly outplayed) by Olajuwon. I liked the Admiral, and wanted him to win the title that year. It hurt to watch Hakeem just go nuts on him though.

Yea Hakeem went nuts, averaged 35/12 that series and dominated. Robinson averaged 23/11. I don't think a 6 game series is the deciding factor on who is better though.

Robinson was 32-16 vs Hakeem in the 48 games they went head to head, that's not the deciding factor either, there are other factors. They're both all time great centers, I just think Robinson may have been a tad better. The gap is small whichever side you're on.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I've never really understood how anyone (other than the folks who treat Wilt like basketball Bo Jackson with all the stories of him bench pressing elephants and jumping over school buses and stuff) can rank anyone at the top of the list besides Kareem.

If you were going to make an argument for the best or second best or whatever player of all time (depending on your view of MJ), he seems like as good a candidate as any. Where are the weaknesses? Stats, titles, consistency, longevity, wins, awards, etc.

I realize he looked goofy at the end, but I just don't get the lack of appreciation for everything that guy accomplished.

 

[Pulaski Cat Fan]

Olajuwon embarrassed Robinson. He also got the best of Shaq and Ewing in other finals. Olajuwon was simply unreal when he was at the top of his game. He had awesome footwork and stamina . His early days as a soccer player developed his footwork and stamina.

 

[gossie21]

Yea Hakeem went nuts, averaged 35/12 that series and dominated. Robinson averaged 23/11. I don't think a 6 game series is the deciding factor on who is better though.

Robinson was 32-16 vs Hakeem in the 48 games they went head to head, that's not the deciding factor either, there are other factors. They're both all time great centers, I just think Robinson may have been a tad better. The gap is small whichever side you're on.

I agree the gap is small. I just think both players were at their peak at the same time and Olajuwon took his game to another level. I was pulling hard for the Admiral at the time, and I think Olajuwon got away with a ton of un-called travels.... but that's my lasting image of the comparison between the two players.

 

[bthaunert]

One of the things I never understood about Russell is how he was NBA MVP 3 times despite being only 2nd team all NBA in those 3 seasons. 2 of the years, Wilt was 1st team All NBA at center and the other year Bob Pettit was 1st team all NBA. His rebounding numbers were through the roof, but interesting enough, he only averaged more than 17ppg twice in his career and averaged less than 15ppg in 6 of his 13 seasons. He was a career 44% shooter from the field...as a comparison, Wilt shot 54% from the field, Kareem shot 56% from the field and Shaq shot 58% from the field.

When you even look at the teams he played on, consider that he was the 7th (once), 5th (once), 4th (seven times), 3rd (three times) and 2nd (once) leading scorer on his teams. This was despite leading his team in minutes played, most years by more than 8 minutes per game (one year more than 12 mpg). Heck, in 1963-64, he averaged 44.6mpg and Tom Heinsohn averaged 26.8mpg, but averaged more ppg than Russell.

I know stats don't tell everything. He obviously was a great player. His teams did not need him to score, but needed him to rebound. But to be considered one of the greatest players of all time, doesn't offense me something?[/QUOTE]

 

[gossie21]

I've never really understood how anyone (other than the folks who treat Wilt like basketball Bo Jackson with all the stories of him bench pressing elephants and jumping over school buses and stuff) can rank anyone at the top of the list besides Kareem.

If you were going to make an argument for the best or second best or whatever player of all time (depending on your view of MJ), he seems like as good a candidate as any. Where are the weaknesses? Stats, titles, consistency, longevity, wins, awards, etc.

I realize he looked goofy at the end, but I just don't get the lack of appreciation for everything that guy accomplished.

I don't think putting him top-3 all time equals a lack of appreciation. He was an incredible offensive player... the all-time leading scorer no less. But I just think Bill Russell was the best non-Michael Jordan player ever. 11 NBA titles, including 2 as a player/coach; 5 MVPs; 11-0 record in game 7/5s (deciding games)....

But in all honesty anyone at the top of these lists will have plenty of accolades and an impressive resume.

 

[wild mandu]

Robinson isn't really all that close to Hakeem, so that argument needs to die.

Russell had the Celtics, Wilt WAS the Warriors/Sixers/Lakers.

 

[spotter34]

I'm surprised at how many have Russell outside of the #1 spot on their all-time list. He is generally considered the #2 greatest player ever regardless of position just behind Michael Jordan (or maybe that's just me). He has 11 NBA titles. And he was far more skilled than any of the other players on the list, not that centers always have to be skilled. Shaq had very little skill, but was just so physically imposing that nobody could stop him.

That's my whole deal with Shaq. I'm probably penalizing him too much for his lack of skill and not rewarding him enough for his dominating size, strength, and athleticism.

 

[UKGloryRoad]

The Dwight Howard thread where Spotter34 said Shaq isn't an elite all time center got me thinking, who are the top 5 centers of all time?

1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. David Robinson

Post Wilt/Russell

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Robinson
4. Hakeem
5. Moses Malone

 

[bowfreak]

I am 43 and Hakeem is by far the best center to lace them up in my lifetime. Where he ranks on the all time list is debatable but he was simply dominant.

 

[UKGloryRoad]

Wilt
Jabber
Akeem
Shaq
Ewing

If Bill Russell played in the 80s and 90s he would have played PF

 

[gossie21]

Robinson isn't really all that close to Hakeem, so that argument needs to die.

Russell had the Celtics, Wilt WAS the Warriors/Sixers/Lakers.

I do have some sympathy for that argument. This was in the days before free agency so Wilt had little flexibility to land with a competent franchise. He had to carry those teams, and did carry them spectacularly well.

It's just hard to compare him in the same era of Bill Russell who was winning 11 NBA titles. It's like when Jordan was playing and we had all-time great players like Karl Malone and John Stockton who couldn't win a title because they kept getting beat by Jordan. That shouldn't diminish what Stockton/Malone accomplished.... but at the same time, it kind of does.

 

[Mojocat]

I realize he looked goofy at the end, but I just don't get the lack of appreciation for everything that guy accomplished.

It's kind of interesting that in these mythical "best players of all time" conversations Kareem doesn't get more play. I suspect he very much did for a long time, but no longer it seems. But whatever the argument about best player ever, I don't think there is any argument about best career. Kareem was that rare superstar high school player that actually panned out Only other example of that coming to mind is LeBron. Jordan, for example, no one knew until he got to Carolina and even as a freshman was viewed as a nice player for a good while that year. There have only been a limited number of superstar, absurdly hyped high school players, and most didn't live up (Ralph Sampson, e.g.). In college, all he did was go 88-1, 3 titles, 3 final four MVPs. Would have been 4/4 if freshmen were eligible. And then at the professional level, I think he won 5 titles and had 6 MVPs, off the top of my head. I don't think anyone else comes close to that. Russell probably second......

 

[BlueSince92]

Say Bill Russell won 11 titles one more time.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

One of the things I never understood about Russell is how he was NBA MVP 3 times despite being only 2nd team all NBA in those 3 seasons. 2 of the years, Wilt was 1st team All NBA at center and the other year Bob Pettit was 1st team all NBA. His rebounding numbers were through the roof, but interesting enough, he only averaged more than 17ppg twice in his career and averaged less than 15ppg in 6 of his 13 seasons. He was a career 44% shooter from the field...as a comparison, Wilt shot 54% from the field, Kareem shot 56% from the field and Shaq shot 58% from the field.

When you even look at the teams he played on, consider that he was the 7th (once), 5th (once), 4th (seven times), 3rd (three times) and 2nd (once) leading scorer on his teams. This was despite leading his team in minutes played, most years by more than 8 minutes per game (one year more than 12 mpg). Heck, in 1963-64, he averaged 44.6mpg and Tom Heinsohn averaged 26.8mpg, but averaged more ppg than Russell.

I know stats don't tell everything. He obviously was a great player. His teams did not need him to score, but needed him to rebound. But to be considered one of the greatest players of all time, doesn't offense me something?

[/QUOTE]

I didn't see, or at least don't remember seeing, Russell play, but I know his accomplishments will never be equaled as far as winning titles go. It's quite astounding (both college and pro), but some people who I respect have made the case that Wilt was the better player. I have no idea, and the gap in titles between the two is hard to overcome, but who is to say Russell would have won that many if he was on another team. Just wondering if you saw them play, and if you have any thoughts on the matter.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

It's funny how often people get best player confused with most decorated. This isn't tennis.

 

[twocoach]

I'm surprised at how many have Russell outside of the #1 spot on their all-time list. He is generally considered the #2 greatest player ever regardless of position just behind Michael Jordan (or maybe that's just me). He has 11 NBA titles. And he was far more skilled than any of the other players on the list, not that centers always have to be skilled. Shaq had very little skill, but was just so physically imposing that nobody could stop him.

I would go:
1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Olajuwon.

Last 25 years.
1. Shaq
2. Olajuwon
3. Robinson
4. Patrick Ewing
5. Dikembe Mutumbo

Russell is ONLY considered better than Wilt when you count titles, which is stupid logic. Robert Horry has more titles than Michael Jordan. Wilt is the best basketball player ever, bar none. I would put him in an argument as one of the best ATHLETES ever.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

No offense, but I think the opinion of KU fans is a little biased. Not that I am saying you are wrong, but.....

 

[FtWorthCat]

Obviously Artis Gilmore should be on this list somewhere.

 

[jrpross]

Being a mere 32, I never saw Wilt, Kareem, or Russel. But from the highlights I've seen and opinions I've heard, they are pretty much the elite 3. I won't offend anyone by giving a totally uneducated ranking

However, I saw plenty of Shaq, Hakeem, and Robinson. I'd put Shaq and Hakeem at the 4 and 5 spots. Hakeem was more skilled than Shaq but Shaq just knew how to use his body better than any big guy I've ever seen. He just bullied people however he wanted to.

 

[Aike]

@Mojocat Kareem won 6 titles - 1 in Milwaukee, 5 in L.A.

My list is...

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Dream

Close:

Moses, Admiral, Big E

Severely underrated:

Artis Gilmore

Worth a look:

Wes Unseld

 

[king of cali]

Wilt is the best basketball player ever, bar none.

False

 

[gossie21]

Russell is ONLY considered better than Wilt when you count titles, which is stupid logic. Robert Horry has more titles than Michael Jordan. Wilt is the best basketball player ever, bar none. I would put him in an argument as one of the best ATHLETES ever.

No way! Dan Issel is the best player EVAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

Wow, it's fun to be a complete and unapologetic homer.