ADVERTISEMENT

The "Cop Problem" explained. Why we are perceived as having a police state in the US.

Lord_Crow

Blue Chip Prospect
Mar 25, 2015
767
278
63
We've been on a war footing since 9/11 and have been waging war in Afghanistan and Iraq for over a decade. As a result we have cycled through a large number of soldiers through war zones and then after discharge a whole lot of those veterans have moved into law enforcement positions.

In the same time period beginning with the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, a lot of Federal money went to local police departments for modernization and even more importantly your average US citizen does not realize that under the National Defense Authorization Act a vast amount of military hardware including machine guns and helicopters were transferred from the DOD to local police departments throughout the United States.

So what do you assume the end result has been to infuse our local police departments with so many ex-military fresh out of combat zones with a ton of military equipment and expertise? The result is that even the cops that are not coming directly out of a war zone are being drawn up into a militarized culture where your average cop on the street no longer understands or respects the conditions under which they may lawfully stop, detain, and question a US citizen. They act with impunity and the arrogance is as unmistakable as it is corrosive.

Meanwhile, your average citizen that does not come into contact with the police does not experience nor grasp the significance of these changes, but the folks who by virtue of their socioeconomic status daily are exposed to police are feeling the effects of living under the what must feel like an oppressive police state. These outbursts in the form of rioting should have been predictable. The militarization of the police is a powder keg placed right in the middle of vast dry tender. Even more troubling is that when you review the thousands of videos available on YouTube that over and over again demonstrate our police appear to be operating more under rules of engagement than they are the law it becomes clear that there is a very real problem here.

Something has got to give... and it is giving. The unrest is swelling and the ramifications for what we have done are going to demand a cruel amount of blood sacrifice before we can put it back again. The dogs of war are not a misnomer and there will be a terrible price to pay if we don't stop blurring the difference between police and military instead of excusing the descent because we, ourselves, in our comfortable homes and neighborhoods have not been affected by it yet. You may feel safer but tyranny will always make the few feel safer than freedom does, but history tells us that is devil's bargain to make and it does not end well.
 
"a lot" is relative. If you are used to reading at a "Dick and Jane" level then granted it may seem overwhelming. A writer must first consider their audience and I know what mine is. They'll be here shortly with their pom poms gleefully volunteering their ID cards for the police for no reason whatsoever as they are blind to the underlying constitutional principles they are surrendering. Their ignorance amuses me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bluemoonofky
Not interested in perception; only interested in reality.

Break the law and you generally get what you deserve.
 
The police must obey the law, too. A good start is putting officers on the street that fully understand the circumstances under which they may stop, detain, and question a US citizen.
 
and break the law multiple times and the cops start looking towards you more. Its simple. Keep your nose clean and the cops will leave you alone. I guess its how youre raised.
 
Interesting perspective. Since I served 8 years on active duty and 12 more in the reserves I can say with impunity, that the military is not made up of all super hero and all American boys like Hollywood and the media have portrayed them, there are a lot of bad apples in the ranks as well. The documentary Kill Team reported on the "killing for sport" that went on in Afghanistan. Granted it's a minority but it demonstrates how even good kids can be coerced into doing bad things in a combat situation.

In the end I still think the vast majority of people on active duty, and police officers are patriotic Americans that try to do their job correctly and responsibly but I can also see how we are experiencing an influx of some undesirable, sociopath types into the ranks. It's an issue that should be flushed out.
 
Interesting perspective. Since I served 8 years on active duty and 12 more in the reserves I can say with impunity, that the military is not made up of all super hero and all American boys like Hollywood and the media have portrayed them, there are a lot of bad apples in the ranks as well. The documentary Kill Team reported on the "killing for sport" that went on in Afghanistan. Granted it's a minority but it demonstrates how even good kids can be coerced into doing bad things in a combat situation.

In the end I still think the vast majority of people on active duty, and police officers are patriotic Americans that try to do their job correctly and responsibly but I can also see how we are experiencing an influx of some undesirable, sociopath types into the ranks. It's an issue that should be flushed out.

I think what he is saying is a lot of former combat arms guys might have a hard time differentiating between American citizens with constitutional rights, and foreign villagers they may have had to bust into the homes of while on tour. Militarizing the local police departments with government surplus equipment only exacerbates the potential problem.
I still remember when I was a kid having the familiar, friendly beat cops walking around town. If that happens nowadays it is only in some Norman Rockwell type of town.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bluemoonofky
The militarization of police was put into action by Bill Clinton when he signed over that the military would start offering their old inventory to the police.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UK-BILL
See Tip run. See Tip play. See Tip give away all his rights and privacy in the name of "safety". Die, Tip, die, and do not ever vote for anything.

A short children's story by Mashburned.
 
It still comes down to...obeying the law.


tumblr_n3n5p6ePBB1rsxqqio1_500.gif



Unfortunately, that's just waaayyyy tooooo simple... for a lot of the "complex" minds out there.
 
The police must obey the law, too. A good start is putting officers on the street that fully understand the circumstances under which they may stop, detain, and question a US citizen.
Your take was predictable. Most liberals hate the military and now you blame them for thugs being thugs. Always an excuse with liberals and never a real solution.
 
The problem is not with sociopaths, it is from training. The military does not train its soldiers (nor should it) on how to lawfully stop, detain, and question US citizens. These soldier cops are defaulting back to their military training because they do not understand how or under what circumstances the can question US citizens. Here is an excellent video of a soldier turned cop stopping and unlawfully trying to question a US citizen and as a result the locality was forced to pay a cash settlement for unlawfully detaining this citizen:

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

The point in the otherwise uneventful video is that while the cop/soldier WANTS to question the citizen he does not have any idea under what authority he can do so other than the fact that he wants to. That is a huge problem facing police departments all over the country. The officers do not understand the law they are enforcing or how they are to go about it.
 
Last edited:
Interesting perspective. Since I served 8 years on active duty and 12 more in the reserves I can say with impunity, that the military is not made up of all super hero and all American boys like Hollywood and the media have portrayed them, there are a lot of bad apples in the ranks as well. The documentary Kill Team reported on the "killing for sport" that went on in Afghanistan. Granted it's a minority but it demonstrates how even good kids can be coerced into doing bad things in a combat situation.

In the end I still think the vast majority of people on active duty, and police officers are patriotic Americans that try to do their job correctly and responsibly but I can also see how we are experiencing an influx of some undesirable, sociopath types into the ranks. It's an issue that should be flushed out.
Yeah let's not blame the undesirable sociopaths that run the street because they do not want to become part of the community. It is only the military or the police that are bad.
 
The militarization of police was put into action by Bill Clinton when he signed over that the military would start offering their old inventory to the police.
And his "crime bill" of 1993-94 created the conditions for the mass incarcerations which assisted in our national crime rates dropping...but now people in his political party are speaking out against. including his wife-president aspirant.

the OP in this thread 'explained' nothing, just their opinion. Zero factual analysis of the amount or types of military equipment which is possessed by the thousands of state/county/city police forces in this country, or when this equipment was acquired, and when it is deployed for use if ever. Zero factual analysis that police forces are now made up of a bunch of itchy trigger-fingered Iraq/Afghanistan veterans who now treat minorities they deal with in this country with the same disregard they did brown muslims in the Middle East.
 
Some one tell me how many of the police officers that have been implicated in the recent problems served in the military.
 
In the United States, a "Terry stop" is a brief detention of a person by police[1] on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.

The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968),[2] in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly detain a person who they reasonably suspect is involved in criminal activity;[3] the Court also held that police may do a limited search of the suspect’s outer garments for weapons if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the person detained may be “armed and dangerous”.[4] When a search for weapons is authorized, the procedure is known as a “stop and frisk”.

To have reasonable suspicion that would justify a stop, police must be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” that would indicate to a reasonable person that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed.[5] Reasonable suspicion depends on the “totality of the circumstances”,[6] and can result from a combination of facts, each of which is by itself innocuous.[7]

The search of the suspect’s outer garments, also known as a patdown, must be limited to what is necessary to discover weapons;[8] however, pursuant to the “plain feel” doctrine, police may seize contraband discovered in the course of a frisk, but only if the contraband’s identity is immediately apparent.[9]

In some jurisdictions, persons detained under the doctrine of Terry must identify themselves to police upon request. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), the Court held that a Nevada statute requiring such identification did not violate the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures, nor, in the circumstances of that case, the Fifth Amendment’s privilege against self incrimination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop
 
You can see from my above post the officer has no probable cause whatsoever to stop, question, and detain the citizen and as a result tax payer money has to go out to pay for his lack of understanding that the police force is not the military and that they are not operating in Fallujah any longer.
 
You can see from my above post the officer has no probable cause whatsoever to stop, question, and detain the citizen and as a result tax payer money has to go out to pay for his lack of understanding that the police force is not the military and that they are not operating in Fallujah any longer.
So you are telling me the police officers in the Baltimore incident served in the military in Fallujah.
 
Why does the local sheriff office need this?
post-1-0-93239600-1309999720.jpg


According to The Washington Post, "Department of Homeland Security has given $31 billion in grants since 2003 to state and local governments for homeland security and to improve their ability to find and protect against terrorists, including $3.8 billion in 2010"

Thank you George W for leading us down this path.....
090715_homeland_ap_297.jpg
 
"Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle expressed deep skepticism about the Defense Department’s 1033 program, which since the 1990s has provided local police departments with more than $5 billion worth of surplus military equipment, including assault rifles, body armor, and armored vehicles.

The Pentagon says the program is intended to help police combat terrorists and drug cartels, but the senators suggested some police departments may be overstepping their authority by using this military equipment for crowd control at riots.

Coburn called the militarization of police an overreaction “on the basis of 9/11.”

"When was the last time that equipment was used for true counterterrorism?” he asked."

Full article from "The Hill":

http://thehill.com/regulation/217136-senators-blast-dod-program-to-militarize-police
 
  • Like
Reactions: UK-BILL
Why does the local sheriff office need this?
post-1-0-93239600-1309999720.jpg


According to The Washington Post, "Department of Homeland Security has given $31 billion in grants since 2003 to state and local governments for homeland security and to improve their ability to find and protect against terrorists, including $3.8 billion in 2010"

Thank you George W for leading us down this path.....
090715_homeland_ap_297.jpg

Because of guys like this:

Hans-Gruber-351x400.jpg
 
I feel so safe seeing pictures like this. This is from Madison County last year. They got so much weed off the street it probably inconvenienced a dozen or so stoners at EKU.
MadisonMarijuana1web.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingOfBBN
lets not forget that Janet Reno saved the children in Waco by burning them alive. its hardly a recent reality.

You are absolutely correct. Anyone that reads partisan politics into this is not seeing the full scope of the problem. Waco and Ruby Ridge both were abominations.

My contention is that with the decade of war producing so may veterans moving into law enforcement at the same time as all this military hardware is pouring into local police departments is that a perfect storm for creating a police state has been created. I believe the police by and large are operating under a military culture of "us against them" right now and the results of the abuses and the complete lack of understanding on the part of law enforcement about how to carry out their duties is staggering even as the video evidence piles up that something has gone horribly wrong with how our police departments view their duties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Free_Salato_Blue
What is wrong with you?
Please explain. The topic of this thread eluded to the militarization of the police force and how the military has influenced the way the modern police force is acting. So far, from what I can get from what I have researched none of the recent officers involved in the incidents making national news served in the military except Michael Slager who was in the coast guard. Perhaps you should keep up with the topic. If it is too hard I will break it down for you.
 
Last edited:
Just playing devil's advocate for a bit.

VICE news did an interesting segment about the militarization of policy, questioning why police departments need the type of vehicles, weapons, and equipment that many of them have been purchasing or have been given, etc.

They did another segment very shortly after(or maybe it was shortly before the police episode), detailing the rise of anti-government militias and how they are using military training and tactics, along with military-grade weaponry.

I would submit that they may have answered their own question. I absolutely find the militarization of police departments alarming, but how can we police people like these militias without at least some element of militarization? It would turn into that LA bank robbery(from the 90's I think) where the cops were badly outgunned by the bank robbers.
 
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people".
 
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people".
Again, I'd love someone to find some actual statistical data showing large numbers of former military veterans who fought in Iraq/Afghanistan now working as police officers. Hell I have no idea if it is real or not, but at this point it is reckless speculation to explain problems in our society.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT