So the platoon DID kill us

[JFCats22]

Just look at the schools. That's the answer.

This has very little to do with the platooning. Anyone with half a brain knows why we platooned last year. Its not something that was intended or going to be the norm. Also negative recruiting would have made sense had these recruits landed at say, Kansas or Duke.

Cal? Miss State? UNLV? Not buying a minute of it.

This is why so many people decide against having much to do with KSR.

Last time I checked we did lose guys to KU and Duke.

And yes, a website that gets nearly 2 million visitors per month and a radio show that is the most listened to in Louisville and Lexington proves your point that many people don't have much to do with KSR. GREAT, points.

 

[ukmelanie]

Last time I checked we did lose guys to KU and Duke.

And yes, a website that gets nearly 2 million visitors per month and a radio show that is the most listened to in Louisville and Lexington proves your point that many people don't have much to do with KSR. GREAT, points.

Brandon Ingram would have been impossible for Coach Cal to get out Of North Carolina.I don't see how it had anything to do with platooning.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Seems like more of the 15 class being more "me" oriented than "team" oriented.

It happens. Some guys like winning. Others like big numbers.

 

[TnKat]

Folks can believe whatever they want. I didn't just write that for my health, I believe it to be true. There are no "facts" when it comes to why recruits make decisions...whatever they say publicly often has little to do with what happened. At the end of the day, if you want to follow recruiting and have any idea what is going on, you pick who you trust and go with their opinions. I do that and feel very confident about what I wrote. If you don't trust mine, so be it.

I still think by the way that platooning was the right call by Calipari, led to a great season and also kept at bay what nearly everyone thought would bring this team down (internal dissent from playing time disputes). It was by far a net positive and helped us have a year to remember and put UK in a position to make history.

It did have the unintended consequence however of hurting 2015 recruiting. I dont think it will have an effect beyond this year, because Calipari will show next year he is not platooning. But coaches have been pounding these kids with the idea that "platooning is Calipari's new style"...and Calipari can say it isn't and fans can say "logically" it isnt, but it will only go away when the kids can see it...which will be next season.

I agree with this 100% and I loved the platoon in our circumstances.

 

[Oboro3]

Platoon ing didn't hurt us. Newman didn't want to play second fiddle to ulis and Briscoe at the point. Brown shied away from all of the attention and Zimmerman didn't want to play behind Skal and Alex. It's pretty simple.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Well now that his anonymous winky face sources are obsolete, he has to post something to get hits and keep feeding off the recruiting frenzy.

If the kids we missed had gone to blue blood schools, I'd buy it. It's an entirely different set of circumstances and priorities that lead kids to LSU, Mississippi State, UNLV and Cal.

I'm not buying it either. Jones just offered his best guess and played it off as reality. The acolytes are buying it as a default reason.

 

[JohnBlue_]

I don't think there is any doubt that rival coaches are claiming Cal is going to keep platooning, there are several UK fans here that believe it too. You would think fans that follow the program this closely would know that isn't true and if it can happen to them it can happen to the recruits. Still yet there is no "one" reason UK missed out the latest group of recruits.

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

I've had my disagreements with MJ, but I think he nailed it on this one.

I bit my tongue when people criticized Jay Williams for saying he wouldn't want to play in that system, thinking people would blast me for supporting a Duke player, but I agreed with him. Most star players are concerned about playing time and getting to the NBA as quick as possible, not sharing or even *GASP* winning a national championship. That's part of it, but not usually the driving force.

Negative recruiting works, just like negative campaigning does in politics. We like to think these kids are smart enough to see through the BS, but they're just not. You play on someone's fear long enough, there's a good chance it will have an impact. This class was a little odd, but it wasn't batshit crazy. There had to be other factors at play.

Good post! I think you hit the nail here. Evident by Cal's constant reminder to recruits that this platooning was a 1 time deal with just this team. However, the damage had beknowing but I think Cal at first thought it was going to be a positive for recruiting with the thought that players and parents would see that he takes care of all of his players equally. As the season progressed, we heard less and less about platooning and I don't think it was solely because of Alex's injury but had something to do with future recruiting also. There may be some who will sacrifice minutes and scoring for the betterment of the entire team but even fewer will commit already knowing that's the situation that lies ahead. That's just the culture of the players. They don't want to spend their 1 year riding the pine. They want minutes.

 

[BBBLazing]

I'm not buying it either. Jones just offered his best guess and played it off as reality. The acolytes are buying it as a default reason.

I'm loving the vocabulary. Most on here fit the definition. And there is a reason. Not being a blind follower gets you ridiculed, called a troll, and actually banned sometimes. So, don't act as though the acolytes are the minority. They are not.

As far as the topic being discussed, I think all coaches, including ours, will use whatever they have to convince a recruit. The platoon system is an easy target this year. That will change. All of the chicken littles need to calm down. We will be OK. We are UK.

It amazes me how quickly UK fans, supposedly the best in the world, turn on their own. We have the 2nd or 3rd best class this year, and all of a sudden we suck. We've got some really good players returning. I've been a fan for a long time and can count on my fingers the teams that we've had that are as talented as next year's team will be.

 

[kybassfan]

Well, I don't believe this. I think it's quite possible that coaches were spinning a yarn relative to platooning = Calipari. I think it's quite possible that maybe one or two bought it, however unlikely.

However, I think it is impossible that every late year recruit is THAT stupid. I think it is impossible that every late season recruit would fail to try to discern the truth just by inquiring directly or through a coach or parent if they were otherwise inclined to go to KY. I think it impossible that the KY coaching would be completely oblivious to this fabrication and make no attempt to dispel the rumor via Twitter, blog or other social media.

Nice theory. Fails the 'red face test' however. At some point we have to fall back to facts and common sense. In this case, the evidence described in this thread is, at best, anecdotal and thin. Further it presumes the high end recruit and their advisors are naive and lack even the slightest bit of diligence. This I reject utterly. Even if it were true in a very limited case, that recruit is quite likely not the best match for the cats.

 

[KentuckyWildcat4Life]

I'm happy with the team we have. Chill out guys.

 

[3 fan]

We are going to have problems scoring next year. Honestly our leading scorers could be Skal and Briscoe. Poy is notorious for no-show games. Ulis is still 5'9". Lee? We only score big by running like deers

 

[UK90]

MJ's new post laid it out.

No, it does not really lay it out. That was pure speculation. He doesn't actually cite any sources or real evidence indicating the platoon system is why these kids rejected us, instead he's essentially just guessing, throwing shit against the wall just like the posters on this board have been doing.

Truth is nobody knows why we've been missing on these recent recruits, and there probably is no one consistent explanation, as each kid has his own different reason for his choice, but that won't stop some from acting like they do know based upon nothing more than mere guesses.

 

[mapcatfan]

Wonder if any of the recruits passing on UK have taken notice that Karl Anthony Towns is probably going to be the #1 player taken in the draft.

The Platoon system really killed him.

 

[loublue22]

 

[Aike]

UK was never the only beneficiary. Wes is good friends with coaches all over the nation. The only reason there was ever a tie to Cal is because Cal was pulling players at Memphis that no one thought he should've been because of this relationship with Wes.

Milt Wagner sort of gave birth to Wes, then Milt's kid went to Memphis. That ratcheted up the hate.

 

[tank2009]

It was a mistake by cal. He got his thing going by advertsing the "dribble drive motion offense" saying he puts ball in hands of players and lets them make plays. Easy sell.

But you ask kids right off the bat to sub in 5 at a time and as a player i would tell you no thanks. I want to play all the game all the time. Who wouldnt?

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Again, where is the correlation between the platoon system of last season and next season's roster?

I find the platoon logic bizarre.

 

[JCTNKAT]

So Brown was afraid that he wouldn't get more than 20 minutes a game with this year's roster? I'm not buying that, and if that was the case and his only reason for not choosing UK, then we don't need him. If that's the case, then best of luck to him, but he wasn't UK material with that kind of attitude. Honestly, with this year's roster, I doubt that fear of the "platoon system" influenced his decision very much.

 

[Bkocats]

I don't think there is any doubt that rival coaches are claiming Cal is going to keep platooning, there are several UK fans here that believe it too. You would think fans that follow the program this closely would know that isn't true and if it can happen to them it can happen to the recruits. Still yet there is no "one" reason UK missed out the latest group of recruits.

EXACTLY!!!
I do believe that other coaches are using the platooning as part of a negative recruiting type approach; also that Cal probably won't stay at UK much longer (to the NBA), also they'll be recruited over, etc. Or, just maybe - the last two classes were more special than people realized in that they sacrificed for the team. Remember how we all gasped in wonder of their unselfishness, as if it were an aberration, rather than how kids really were? Now, maybe we are seeing the real thing - these guys want playing time and to be "the man" as they were on their AAU teams.

This season may not have had the best recruiting - and we were bound to have a hiccup eventually. We will see in the coming draft how the "platooning" hurt the players - and we'll see how some of these OADs do in next year's draft comparatively. If it goes as I suspect, then it will come around again

 

[JPScott]

I bit my tongue when people criticized Jay Williams for saying he wouldn't want to play in that system, thinking people would blast me for supporting a Duke player, but I agreed with him. Most star players are concerned about playing time and getting to the NBA as quick as possible, not sharing or even *GASP* winning a national championship. That's part of it, but not usually the driving force.

Negative recruiting works, just like negative campaigning does in politics. We like to think these kids are smart enough to see through the BS, but they're just not. You play on someone's fear long enough, there's a good chance it will have an impact. This class was a little odd, but it wasn't batshit crazy. There had to be other factors at play.

Regarding a player getting to the NBA as quick as possible, if anything UK's 2014-15 season showed that if a player wants to get to the NBA as quickly as possible, then UK is the way to go, even with the platoon.

I do agree with the rest of what you say, regarding negative recruiting etc. It seems that high school recruits especially have absolutely no sense of history (which is understandable in some ways) and in many cases rational thought. For example some years they'll see players go to smaller schools and flame out/not be in the NCAA tournament and decide to go to a more traditional school for more exposure. Other years, it's the opposite as guys think they'll be 'the man' at what they think is an 'up-and-coming' school. etc. (apparently not realizing that the same school has had many people who were 'the man' through the decades and then quickly were forgotten by their virtually non-existent fanbase.)

 

[ThroughBlue]

We have the best player in the class and the best point guard but don't let that keep you guys from being excited about our team.

 

[JPScott]

So Brown was afraid that he wouldn't get more than 20 minutes a game with this year's roster? I'm not buying that, and if that was the case and his only reason for not choosing UK, then we don't need him. If that's the case, then best of luck to him, but he wasn't UK material with that kind of attitude. Honestly, with this year's roster, I doubt that fear of the "platoon system" influenced his decision very much.

Agree with this. At some point I think that we need to take Rupp's attitude with regard to recruiting, i.e. if a player is dumb enough to turn down a scholarship offer to the University of Kentucky, then they're too dumb to effectively play for UK.

Sound harsh I know, and of course there are other extenuating circumstances in every recruitment, but the general philosophy I think is sound. i.e. if a player isn't able to recognize the benefits of playing for UK (which historically includes playing within a team concept), then it's probably for the best for everyone concerned that they go elsewhere.

 

[Mike-D]

At the end of the day, you can break it all down, say this, say that, whatever. I think you're just trying to rationalize something that can't be rationalized sometimes. And that's called recruiting. We platooned 1 time in 6 years and it was for the simple fact tgat we had a lot of good players, and Cal didn't want to put these guys on the end of the bench. I seriously doubt that 1 random year of basketball had anything to do with the decisions of these 18 year old kids. Especially after we just sent 7 to the draft. To me, these people are just wanting to blame the past month of recruiting on something. Whatever sticks.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

I can't wrap my head around recruits actually thinking we'd have enough players to platoon, after we lost 7 to the draft. There's probably some other reason that we'll never know about.

 

[qwesley]

Waste of time trying to rationalize the school decisions of the majority of the top players this year.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Well if names of sources (which of course would lead to them no longer being sources since things are told under the assumption of anonymity) are what you require, then I won't be able to make you happy.

Everyone has a right to their opinion no doubt. Some opinions are more informed than others and thus I tend to give them more credibility. If you don't think mine is in that category, that is your right.

I have no doubt that coaches used that against us, so believe your statement. But as you noted, it wasn't the sole reasoning for it. I don't believe it actually cost us any recruit, no more than the other years when coaches use things like "he will recruit over you", "he's going to the NBA", "UK fans are crazy", etc.

Cal platooned for half a season and only because he was forced to do so, this is not his style as the other 20 years of his coaching career shows. He assumed 2-4 of the guys would have left and they came back. So guys played less minutes but they played. You know what would have been even worse for us in recruiting? Coaches saying "look at that, Ullis, Booker, and Lyles only played 5 minutes a game because Cal wouldn't get them in, he cost them a lot of exposure and money."

If the recruits aren't smart enough to see the extremely unique situation for this past year, then whatever. I think it's more the NBA talk than anything, and this was just a different class. Newman made sense because he wanted to play PG, he wasn't doing that here. Diallo went to another elite school who puts guys in NBA too, it happens.

Brown and Zimmerman only ones who made poor decisions IMO for their branding, I think it has more to do with everything that comes with playing here. Both had UK and low-profile schools where they won't be in the spotlight 24/7...again this place isn't for everyone.

 

[caneintally]

Agree 100%

'
EXACTLY

 

[crazyqx83]

Here is a more logical scenario than matt's narrative.

Zimmerman: staying home and not competing with skal/lee for minutes was more attractive

Newman: staying home and having a possibility of playing PG was more attractive.

Ingram: nobody besides matt Jones thought we had any shot pulling him from duke.

Diallo: again, we have three 5 star players for the 4/5 spots. Kansas has 1 and he is a combo forward. Self probably sold him on starting while cal tried to sell competing for minutes.

Brown: kid didn't want spotlight. Cal was considered an afterthought. I mean, he picked them because of ivan rabb and shareef abdur-rahim. No point in trying to make sense of a recruitment when those are the primary decision factors.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Players in positions with playing time available still committed elsewhere. So that's not the issue.

I think it had alot to do with these kids having to wait all season to see who was leaving; that it put us behind. I think that's one reason we saw the 7 declare early, because Cal knew he had major ground to make up since these kids had been on hold all season.

Then throw in all the strange intricacies of the remaining recruits (Zim and his mom, Newman being a legacy) ; and we end up striking out.

Good news is we still have the #2 class; and the likely #1 overall draft pick. So we did pretty darn good. People forget that.

 

[docholiday51]

Had we won it all with the platoon system then I think the recruiting outcome would have been different.Since we didn't other teams gained traction using it against us.

Cal got caught up in the chase for Newman(which was never going to be a good fit) and it cost him in terms of time spent on other players.Ulis,Briscoe and Newman was never going to happen,.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

We have the best player in the class and the best point guard but don't let that keep you guys from being excited about our team.

I don't think any of this is meant to take away our excitement for who is here. I think it's more based on concern of what it takes for us to win, we need more than 1 elite player as history has shown during Cal's run to even have a chance, this past year really put a damper on things as most of us are asking "if we can't win with that, what will it take other than getting a once in a decade player like AD".

Wall/Cousins
Knight/Jones
AD/MKG/Jones
Randle/Young
KAT/WCS/Lyles

Right now, we have Skal and that's it. The other guys are very good, but not top 10/lottery pick NBA good.

 

[WildMoon]

Generalization is great example of laziness and stupidity.

Platoon killed our recruiting is generalizing individual people into a category at which we have no proof of any correlation. Smh.

If people want to have a discussion there has to be some real discussion point.

Saying platoon hurt our chances with Zimmerman might be a good discussion.

 

[WildMoon]

I don't think any of this is meant to take away our excitement for who is here. I think it's more based on concern of what it takes for us to win, we need more than 1 elite player as history has shown during Cal's run to even have a chance, this past year really put a damper on things as most of us are asking "if we can't win with that, what will it take other than getting a once in a decade player like AD".

Wall/Cousins
Knight/Jones
AD/MKG/Jones
Randle/Young
KAT/WCS/Lyles

Right now, we have Skal and that's it. The other guys are very good, but not top 10/lottery pick NBA good.

Jones wasn't lottery pick. Neither was young. WCS and lyles might end up being late lottery, some might drop past lottery.

Also why do people assume Briscoe won't be a lottery pick?

 

[mrschwump]

What should be more disconcerting is these players and their families choosing not to believe Calipari when he told them the platoon concept was a one time thing that wouldn't be repeated. They essentially thought he lied.

 

[DDS62]

I don't buy the platoon thing. Kids would have to be serious idiots to think we are going 10 deep with next year's roster.

I do think our overwhelming fan and media attention may have hurt us with Wiggins and brown, though.

Exactly! MJ is OK, but he just expressed an opinion without any real reason and did it when he was coming off an event filled weekend trying to give his readers some explanation of why we struck out. But like you, I don't believe for a minute any of those recruits that stiff armed us had much fear about playing time after losing 7 players to the draft. And like you, I do believe the real reason lies in the image of Kentucky that has developed over the last couple of years. I hear it over and over (at least the people in Cincy that are around me) that Kentucky is a bunch of losers that can't even win when they have everything - Size, talent, depth, MickyD's, All Americans, a team full of NBA players etc, etc etc. It's no fun trying to argue that point to a bunch of BeraCats and Musketeers at this point in time. That is (at least in part) the reason the recruits are not interested, but Matt can't write that kind of stuff without irritating his audience. Just like my comments do to the Kentucky fans here.

 

[sefus12]

Man, some of you folks argue over things MJ says like you're duking it out on a political forum. Jones made some good points and I fully believe that coaches used the "platooning/lack of minutes" line against UK a lot, especially toward the end of the year. Discrediting anything MJ says simply because you don't like him is really stupid, as is believing everything posted on KSR because you really like him. He undoubtedly has more connections than we do, so I do think he gets nuggets of knowledge the general public doesn't.

 

[kats23]

I think where "platoon" did hurt was with the first few top recruits left in the bag. If UK had added Newman, Diallo, and Zimmerman you would of had a lot of shared minutes and log jams in spots. I think most kids saw that as a negative. The platoon came from kids returning after guys had already signed. It would of been the opposite this year. It didn't hurt with Brown though. I'm not buying that. he had minutes for days at the "3" spot. he chose California for other reasons.

I hear they are #1 public school. Maybe that's it.

 

[UK90]

Had we won it all with the platoon system then I think the recruiting outcome would have been different.

Even if we had won it all, we still would NOT have done it "with the platoon system", because we did NOT platoon in the NCAA tournament. Indeed, we did not platoon for most of the second half of the season.

Good lord is it ever absurd how much the "platoon" stuff has been overblown. In truth, that's something we experimented with for only about half a season, we did not do it in the games that really mattered, and we were never gonna do it again.

And, despite the baseless speculation of Matt Jones and some here, I doubt it had anything to do with why these recruits have been rejecting us. As someone else noted, each of these kids had his own independent reasons for his choice. Zimmerman wanted to stay home and logically did not want to go the same school where the No. 1 guy at his position (Skal) was also going; Newman wanted to play point guard and stay home and play for the same school his dad played for; Rabb wanted to stay home (I won't ever fault a kid for wanting to play for his hometown school); Ingram is a North Carolina kid was reportedly focused in on either Duke or UNC from the beginning; Brown is reportedly a shy withdrawn kid who wanted nothing to do with living in the UK fishbowl, etc. It was just an odd class full of kids with different preferences, there's no simple explanation for it all.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

you guys have to understand this is how the world works when people want to knock you off your mountain.... it was either.

1. Platoon and have every one negative recruit against us saying look, you won't get minutes or

2. Not platoon and have every one negative recruit agains us saying why would you go there to sit on the bench