Sam DuBose Murder
- Thread starter Joey Rupption
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Lot of great posts and a few not so great. The absolute best approach when stopped by the police is to comply and things will work out alright. most of the time.
I love the "big bottle of gin, probably drunk" part. First, that's not a "big bottle," it's an effing pint (or half pint). It also appears to be unopened, or at least full. If you get pulled over with a brand new 12 pack in your car, does that mean you're "probably drunk," or that you're just coming from the kroger up the street?
Can we please stop with the black people getting shot all the time shit. It goes both ways.
"In 2012, according to the CDC, 140 blacks were killed by police. That same year 386 whites were killed by police. Over the 13-year period from 1999 to 2011, the CDC reports that 2,151 whites were killed by cops — and 1,130 blacks were killed by cops."
I know what video you're talking about. What I don't know is how you'd think that video would somehow mean that cop will be facing charges. It doesn't show the shooting or the car at the relevant time.
Also, you made a comment earlier about the cop only doing things with his left hand as if his right hand is on his gun the whole time. That's also false. In the first video you can see him making gestures with his right hand.
I just wish people would objectively watch the damn videos instead of making things up to make them sound worse than they are.
Thats a great story and all, but rea
Bill Cosby is right about the gestures. You can see him use both hands, with palms flat out, which is usually a non-aggressive gesture. Thats what gets me. His hands show him trying to at least be civil at first, with open body language. There is about a 20-30 second gap where it goes bad. I think the cop reacted too quickly to the situation, as in saw he could be in danger, and just shot him. He failed to do a lot of things correctly as VT rondo pointed out like use proper commands and keep a safe distance. He might have legitimately thought dude was going to drag him and injure him. The test will be if a reasonable person in the same situation would act the same. So maybe its a question for ex law enforcement?
I am not using the race card here, though I do think the young cop was afraid, one could say those killings are not proportional to the population. 11% or so of the pop, yet 55% of the deaths in comparison to whites? At least something to consider. As I said, I havent mentioned race here, I think it was just a rookie cop who went to far and slipped up bad.
Bill Cosby is right about the gestures. You can see him use both hands, with palms flat out, which is usually a non-aggressive gesture. Thats what gets me. His hands show him trying to at least be civil at first, with open body language. There is about a 20-30 second gap where it goes bad. I think the cop reacted too quickly to the situation, as in saw he could be in danger, and just shot him. He failed to do a lot of things correctly as VT rondo pointed out like use proper commands and keep a safe distance. He might have legitimately thought dude was going to drag him and injure him. The test will be if a reasonable person in the same situation would act the same. So maybe its a question for ex law enforcement?
He left out, "probably just robbed a liquor store and on his way to rape some white girls." And it's the Krogers. Geez.
Of those 2,151 whites killed by cops, how many were unarmed? How many were killed because they pulled a weapon or attacked a police officer? Just rattling off numbers doesn't tell the whole story.
I think the thing that annoys me the most about this topic is the flat out refusal from some people to acknowledge Dubose should have acted differently. No, he didn't deserve to get shot. He didn't deserve a death sentence for his actions. Everyone is saying the cop was wrong.
But, if you're in the same situation as Dubose, don't do what Dubose did. It's that damn simple. If the cop is being an asshole, what is fighting him going to accomplish? There are better times and places to fight that battle than in a tense situation like that. You have got to play the odds. There's no sense in trying to become a martyr. If a cop is an asshole to begin with, do you think being an asshole back is going to calm the situation down? File a complaint. Sue. Do whatever you have to do. Fighting or trying to flee in your vehicle from a cop with a gun and backup on the way is just stupid.
There are times in life you have to bite your tongue. What if your boss is a dick? Are you going to be a dick right back? Or do you stop and think, "Maybe acting like an asshole to the person with the authority in this situation, even though he may unjustifiably be acting like an asshole, would make things worse."
Additionally, you guys get so damn upset about the big bad government over stepping it's authority because a UC cop shot a guy AND WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER. Meanwhile, every single post you've made on the topic is likely logged in a federal government server somewhere next to your other personal data.
Can we please, please just get one fraction of the outrage over that Constitutional overstep as we get over a situation where a cop shoots a guy and is charged with murder.
But, if you're in the same situation as Dubose, don't do what Dubose did. It's that damn simple. If the cop is being an asshole, what is fighting him going to accomplish? There are better times and places to fight that battle than in a tense situation like that. You have got to play the odds. There's no sense in trying to become a martyr. If a cop is an asshole to begin with, do you think being an asshole back is going to calm the situation down? File a complaint. Sue. Do whatever you have to do. Fighting or trying to flee in your vehicle from a cop with a gun and backup on the way is just stupid.
There are times in life you have to bite your tongue. What if your boss is a dick? Are you going to be a dick right back? Or do you stop and think, "Maybe acting like an asshole to the person with the authority in this situation, even though he may unjustifiably be acting like an asshole, would make things worse."
Additionally, you guys get so damn upset about the big bad government over stepping it's authority because a UC cop shot a guy AND WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER. Meanwhile, every single post you've made on the topic is likely logged in a federal government server somewhere next to your other personal data.
Can we please, please just get one fraction of the outrage over that Constitutional overstep as we get over a situation where a cop shoots a guy and is charged with murder.
Considering white people make up roughly 77 % of the nations population and African Americans make up only 12%, it's probably safe to say those numbers aren't so black and white.
And to continue on, the Cincinnati Police Department is trying to make things better. You have a Mayor, City Council, and new chief of police who are trying to improve the police and community relations.
In case you haven't noticed, there are a whole lot of non-police involved shootings in Cincinnati.
Can you imagine policing the streets of a community like that? You're job, on a daily basis, isn't sitting behind a computer posting on Catspause, it's being hired by the taxpayers of the city to protect and serve the city where you don't have any idea what danger you're walking into on a daily basis.
Situations are going to be tense. It would go a long way if the people on both sides of the situation could remain calm and respectful.
But instead of remaining calm and respectful, we have people saying you shouldn't have to take that cops shit. "Don't let him disrespect you. Show him who actually has the authority. If the cop asks you to take your seat belt of, and you don't think he asked politely enough, start your car and gun the engine. Until we start showing the cops who has the real authority, nothing will change."
Maybe take a step back and think, "I'm a taxpayer, who elects the people who hire these cops, maybe, rather than challenging a cop to a duel when he's being a dick, I should react through the proper channels."
In case you haven't noticed, there are a whole lot of non-police involved shootings in Cincinnati.
Can you imagine policing the streets of a community like that? You're job, on a daily basis, isn't sitting behind a computer posting on Catspause, it's being hired by the taxpayers of the city to protect and serve the city where you don't have any idea what danger you're walking into on a daily basis.
Situations are going to be tense. It would go a long way if the people on both sides of the situation could remain calm and respectful.
But instead of remaining calm and respectful, we have people saying you shouldn't have to take that cops shit. "Don't let him disrespect you. Show him who actually has the authority. If the cop asks you to take your seat belt of, and you don't think he asked politely enough, start your car and gun the engine. Until we start showing the cops who has the real authority, nothing will change."
Maybe take a step back and think, "I'm a taxpayer, who elects the people who hire these cops, maybe, rather than challenging a cop to a duel when he's being a dick, I should react through the proper channels."
abh, learn proportions.
How does one get dragged when they aren't being held by someone in the car? The cop could have just let go of the car and took a step back if he was afraid of getting dragged.
How does one get dragged when they aren't being held by someone in the car? The cop could have just let go of the car and took a step back if he was afraid of getting dragged.
I must've missed where anyone in this thread said that.
Have you ever had a cop try and open your door for no damn good reason with the intention of pulling you out of the car? I know I haven't. I would like to think that in that situation I would react in a rational manner, like you are arguing, but you know what? I might not. In fact I will probably panic. Does that mean I deserve to die? Does that mean I deserve to have my ass beat? Does that mean I deserve to be treated like garbage? Everyone knows that Dubose could have done somethings differently. But you're trying to attach rational behavior to an irrational situation. It's flawed. You know what would have saved Dubose? A competent cop that could have assessed the situation rationally and calmly.
I've never had a cop open my door for no damn good reason with the intention of pulling me out of the car. But neither did Dubose.
I've also never refused to answer a cop's question about whether or not I had my license on me.
In the situations I've been in, I've tended to answer the cop's questions directly. Given him my license. Informed him I have my CCDW but there are no weapons in the vehicle. Honestly, in every situation I've ever been in, I remained calm, answered the cop's questions, and left with whatever ticket or citation I deserved.
I can't tell you how I'd react if I refused to answer a cop's questions and he tried to open my car door. I can tell you, turning my car on and trying to speed off would be far down the list of things I'd do.
Lastly, THE GODDAM COP WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER. It's beyond me how you're trying to take this situation and stretch it into a systemic problem.
I've also never refused to answer a cop's question about whether or not I had my license on me.
In the situations I've been in, I've tended to answer the cop's questions directly. Given him my license. Informed him I have my CCDW but there are no weapons in the vehicle. Honestly, in every situation I've ever been in, I remained calm, answered the cop's questions, and left with whatever ticket or citation I deserved.
I can't tell you how I'd react if I refused to answer a cop's questions and he tried to open my car door. I can tell you, turning my car on and trying to speed off would be far down the list of things I'd do.
Lastly, THE GODDAM COP WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER. It's beyond me how you're trying to take this situation and stretch it into a systemic problem.
By the way, Bristol, a 4 year old girl was shot in a drive by in Avondale last night. She's in critical condition. Hopefully you sleep poorly tonight and we can get an 8 page thread about the needless violence.
If everyone behaved like you, citizen of the year, then we wouldn't have these situations. I applaud your self awareness. But people react differently. I expect cops to handle the situations accordingly. When they don't handle them appropriately then I'm going to do what I'm doing right now. He was charged with murder. If he is convicted and the punishment suits the crime then I will praise the system for getting this one right. My suspicion is that he will serve a lesser sentence. I will not be surprised if he is even found not guilty. History, ya know?
But we already have an 8 page thread on needless violence? Ohhhh, you want us to hold criminals and cops to the same standard. I see.
So I guess next time I get pulled over I'm gonna act stupid and play dumb and then drive off to avoid the ticket. Because apparently that's not a big deal.
No one has said Dubose was right in trying to drive off. He panicked in the situation as many would do. Who knows if he had been in a previous situation where a police officer had physically pulled him from a vehicle.
People keep saying that he should have remained calm and answered the cop's questions. They must've seen a different video then I did. In the video I saw, Dubose did remain calm. He didn't get agitated or aggressive. He volunteered the bottle of gin. Repeatedly said he didn't have his license on him and that it wasn't suspended. Said he lived around the corner. The one who got agitated was the cop. He never ordered Dubose to get out of the vehicle. Who knows what would have happened if he had. Based on how Dubose was acting, it is a reasonable assumption that he would have gotten out of the vehicle. Instead the cop crossed a line, he stopped being a cop and tried to start being Billy BadAss by opening his car door and reach inside the vehicle to as the cop said to grab his seatbelt which I find to highly suspicious. Dubose was part of the situation but at best 20% of the blame lies on Dubose and 80% on the cop for how everything played out. The prosecutor will get a conviction of some sort in this case.
People keep saying that he should have remained calm and answered the cop's questions. They must've seen a different video then I did. In the video I saw, Dubose did remain calm. He didn't get agitated or aggressive. He volunteered the bottle of gin. Repeatedly said he didn't have his license on him and that it wasn't suspended. Said he lived around the corner. The one who got agitated was the cop. He never ordered Dubose to get out of the vehicle. Who knows what would have happened if he had. Based on how Dubose was acting, it is a reasonable assumption that he would have gotten out of the vehicle. Instead the cop crossed a line, he stopped being a cop and tried to start being Billy BadAss by opening his car door and reach inside the vehicle to as the cop said to grab his seatbelt which I find to highly suspicious. Dubose was part of the situation but at best 20% of the blame lies on Dubose and 80% on the cop for how everything played out. The prosecutor will get a conviction of some sort in this case.
Hmm I'm getting the vibe from you guys that it's not a big deal at all. In fact, it seems as if it's the right thing to do based on what I'm reading. Hell, I shouldn't have to listen to authority if I dont agree with it.
I think this is the problem.
Literally, every time you've said you saw something in the video, it has been wrong.
Go back and watch the correct videos. If you are watching a video where a guy is sitting in a car and actually answering the cops questions and not being evasive, then you are watching the wrong video. Maybe that could clear up a lot of your confusion.
Who cares? Which part of the way Dubose acted justifies the officer shooting him in the head and killing him? Thats the bottom line.
Depends on what you get pulled over for. No front license plate? I would say no big deal. Petty. Driving under the influence and putting your life and other lives at risk? That's a bigger deal. Still you probably shouldn't be shot over it.
Ohhhhhh I get it now. He had the right to drive off bc he was pulled over for something little....against the law.....but little.
I didn't say he had the right. I just said it wasn't a big deal and definitely didn't warrant him getting his brains blown out.
At least your tone has changed somewhat in this posting...
We all agree that if you are obedient, follow orders and are respectful it will more likely result in the cop not making a bad decision.... That all said, this is the real world and civilians don't go through weeks of training on how to act with cops. The cops have the training, SHOULD know the rules and should definitely know that their weapon is for their self-defense, not to force or punish someone for not complying with their orders. So when we see instances where cops f'k up, are clearly in the wrong we need to stop making excuses for the cops and stop trying to place or deflect blame to the civilian and we need to force law enforcement and the cities, counties and states as well as the Feds that fund them to undertake whatever means necessary to get the jerk-wad and psychopaths out of the force and improve their relations in the communities. They employ these guys and it's their responsibility to clean up the problems.
Further, as we see more and more of these videos we need to stop being so dismissive of A-A claims of "racist" cops abusing their powers. If these videos didn't exist these same story lines would be VERY different. We'd more likely believe the cop's story because "this punk had 75 prior arrest". It's a lot easier to understand how they could be distrustful of the police after video evidence we've all see in just the last year. What have cops done when there are no cameras around?
I feel somewhat bad about it because I have several close friends and a cousin who are all cops...I respect that they do a job that they couldn't pay me enough money to do...and I think the overwhelming majority of cops are good...but I've run into a few assholes in my lifetime from who I got the impression they'd just as soon shot me as explain why they felt the need to be total assholes. The good cops need to call out the bad ones because the few bad ones are smearing the names and reputations of the good.
That's a lie, @JohnBlue_. She never struck that officer. He was the aggressor. Him. She mouthed off a bit, he went nuts, and now she's dead. She may have killed herself, but there is ZERO excuse for the aggression, ZERO excuse for the arrest, ZERO excuse for being in jail for THREE days, ZERO excuse for LYING about her attacking the officer.
Improper police conduct is been discussed ad nauseam in the media and it is an important issue. However in this instance, like every other instance, the situation is elevated by the suspect either resisting arrest, not cooperating with the police or attempting to run, in one case the suspect actually struck the police officer.
That doesn't mean the police officer's have the right to shoot the suspect, but it is germane to the discussion but is for the most part being ignored.
I think in the interest of public service, the media should emphasize that if you are stopped by the police regardless of how trivial the issue, you must cooperate. If you do otherwise you can easily slip into a dangerous situation. So even though in at least some of these cases police over reacted, and used bad judgement resulting in death or injury, the situations would have likely been avoided in just about every one if the suspect had simply cooperated.
That doesn't mean the police officer's have the right to shoot the suspect, but it is germane to the discussion but is for the most part being ignored.
I think in the interest of public service, the media should emphasize that if you are stopped by the police regardless of how trivial the issue, you must cooperate. If you do otherwise you can easily slip into a dangerous situation. So even though in at least some of these cases police over reacted, and used bad judgement resulting in death or injury, the situations would have likely been avoided in just about every one if the suspect had simply cooperated.
Psa from the police "If you do exactly what we say including answering any question directly we are less likely to kill you. The more you know."
There are some bad cops. Obviously. And it only gets worse. Who in their right mind will want to be a cop?
Here, wear this camera so we can scrutinize your ever move.
Here, wear this camera so we can scrutinize your ever move.
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